SPOILERS! General Pokémon Anime Discussion

[Ming-Ming]

What probably would end up happening, is that Ash will get his 6th mon either by the time he fights Wulfric, or after. Because to me, it seems like the focus of this anime arc is around Zygarde, for obvious reasons. And for the anime poster, it spoils Noibat's evolution, but even this opening doesn't make any special note of an additional monster to anyone's team.

That's simply how I see things, though.

 

[mertyville]

I think the introduction of Ash-Greninja in the anime pretty much tells us that Ash won't get a Mega Pokemon but use something that is similar in some ways since it will rival a Mega Pokemon in the anime (assuming it is true what we see in the opening with Mega Charizard X and Mega Sceptile).

What do you guys think about the idea that Alain will give back the Charizardite X and earn a Charizardite Y in the story to get some kind of development?
While that seems like rather odd for Pokemon to use a concept like that, this generation of the anime is very (modern) anime-like in terms of shipping, there is real character development, tapping into a power that rivals another power (Ash-Greninja tapping into the power of Mega Evolution?) and even the opening is very non-Pokémon (to me at least with that Final Form Zygarde flying into the sky like some kind of angel).

 

[Pikachu315111]

What do you guys think about the idea that Alain will give back the Charizardite X and earn a Charizardite Y in the story to get some kind of development?
While that seems like rather odd for Pokemon to use a concept like that, this generation of the anime is very (modern) anime-like in terms of shipping, there is real character development, tapping into a power that rivals another power (Ash-Greninja tapping into the power of Mega Evolution?) and even the opening is very non-Pokémon (to me at least with that Final Form Zygarde flying into the sky like some kind of angel).

Don't think Alain will lose the Charizardite X but I have a weird feeling the Mega Stone in the crystal he got in the first episode might be Charizardite Y. If anything I'd say he might get both if Ash isn't going to get it.

 

[precita]

Judging by upcoming episode titles there's a bunch of fillers for a while coming up. I never understood why the anime constantly hypes itself up with big events and then goes back to filler land for like 5-10 episodes before something important happens again.

I mean the new opening hypes up Team Flare, Ash's new Greninja, him battling Shota's Mega, Alan...and instead the next batch of episodes are the usual fillers where they meet a wild pokemon with a problem or help a trainer. Next few eps are about a Litleo seperated from its family, a Nurse Joy who needs help with her Audino, and a Quadallin interacting with the group,etc.

Is it really that hard for the anime to have consistently plot eps in a row? I don't mind some filler from time to time, but they just started a new story arc hyping up big events and we have to sit through like 5-6 fillers coming up with the usual formula. Its like some things never change.

 

[Ming-Ming]

The reason for the fillers is because the animation team needs time to develop the plot related episodes. If I remember correctly, the animation team is around 4~ months ahead of what's being shown on TV. Maybe even farther than that!

The reason why BW was so bad, as an example, is because they simply did not plan on the earthquake ruining the plot they had in mind for BW, and didn't know how to recuperate for lost time. This is a team that's direction is literally "Advertise the hell out of the games, and you will generate All The Money". And sometimes, they may need to use filler, to continue to buy more time to make plot stuff. SURE, I would love if the anime had plot out the wazoo, but admittedly, the anime team isn't SUPER full of effort, and in fact, can be kinda lazy with episode ideas. Such as reusing episodes in the past, and justifying it as "Kids don't know those episodes!".

Maybe these fillers could have, AT LEAST, new moves for Pokemon, or even someone becoming more important down the line...? The anime is weird, yo.

 

[LightningLord2]

Most Anime goes into filler territory when waiting for the source material to provide new stuff or to stall time for making better episodes (the latter is probably the reason why flashback episodes exist). The Animes that avoid this tend to be 10-25 episodes in total. Western shows avoid producing filler by never making an overarcing plot to begin with.

However, the quality and content of Filler varies between individual Animes - for instance, Dragonball Z hardly goes into subplots and usually just draws out scenes for longer. Naruto Shippuden is famous for making lots of flashbacks. Pokémon takes the chance to give a Pokémon spotlight that hasn't been seen much.

 

[Ming-Ming]

However, the quality and content of Filler varies between individual Animes - for instance, Dragonball Z hardly goes into subplots and usually just draws out scenes for longer. Naruto Shippuden is famous for making lots of flashbacks. Pokémon takes the chance to give a Pokémon spotlight that hasn't been seen much.

Dragonball Z has a filler episode where Goku and Piccolo need to go get a driver's license.

Gintama is also the King of Filler where there is seriously an episode where mannequins of the characters are filmed, because the season ran out of budget.

What I'm saying is, more anime need to take after these genius writers.

 

[LightningLord2]

Dragonball Z has a filler episode where Goku and Piccolo need to go get a driver's license.

Gintama is also the King of Filler where there is seriously an episode where mannequins of the characters are filmed, because the season ran out of budget.

What I'm saying is, more anime need to take after these genius writers.

I said hardly because there is a few subplots in DBZ.

You want good filler? Yugioh: Waking the Dragons. It provides some actual character development for the protagonist, showed off interesting aspects of the secondary characters, had a very well written villain and a ridiculously silly duel with him. It's better than the canon episodes, which feature a one-dimensional lead who doubles as a broken record, creator pet cards and a filler supporting cast (Mako Tsunami is entirely defined by his deck, Tristan never contributes to the plot and any female is obligated to show off her gender). Kaiba is good, but that's as far as it goes.

At least it's not as bad as some of the later spinoffs - 5Ds shows off Yusei as a good-hearted and crafty duelists, which is completely discarded (along with his friends) at Episode 13 due to contrived amnesia. Later on, most of the signers with him are ditched because they can't Accel Synchro. Also, Jack Atlas is basically what Kaiba would be if he didn't have a single redeeming quality.

 

[Ming-Ming]

I was actually trying to say those filler episodes were great, just for how endearingly silly they are.

I can't talk TOO much about YGO, only that overall, I remember liking the original series, and it's fillers, a lot, and prefer to watch the dub's voice work over seeing it subbed. But the point is the same - Fillers that expand on a subplot, or even just have silly moments, are ones I'm A-OK with.

 

[LightningLord2]

The Pokémon filler does have silly moments, but it's the same ones as seen in every episode. If they really need to stall time for better episodes, the network should do what Live Action TV shows do and just re-air previous episodes since there's no difference between watching 20 episodes that are basically the same or the same episode 20 times.

 

[Caramel Prisoner]

Gintama is also the King of Filler where there is seriously an episode where mannequins of the characters are filmed, because the season ran out of budget.

Funny that you bring that up, I was just going to post about Gintama. It's the only show where I love the fillers because of how self aware the writers are. Unlike most other shows, they're totally blunt about the episode being like it is because they ran out of budget, making some of the most hilarious episodes in an already hilarious show.

 

[precita]

Fillers in Pokemon got tedious by the time Johto started. I think the Pokemon anime would be a lot better received if each region was only about 100-120 episodes and fillers were kept to a minimum. I understand they also have to feature every new pokemon per each gen, but they can be in better episodes.

 

[Karxrida]

Yeah, only 100 episodes.

I think there's a problem here. There's too much nothing in the show because there's no overarching conflict 90% of the time.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Fillers in Pokemon got tedious by the time Johto started. I think the Pokemon anime would be a lot better received if each region was only about 100-120 episodes and fillers were kept to a minimum. I understand they also have to feature every new pokemon per each gen, but they can be in better episodes.

I wouldn't mind if the filler would maybe have more basis on mechanics and features in the game. Routes, Towns, and Cities often have many location of interests yet the anime often overlooks a bunch of these in favor of filler which is just a wacky adventure.

 

[precita]

Yeah, only 100 episodes.

I think there's a problem here. There's too much nothing in the show because there's no overarching conflict 90% of the time.

There's still a lot to show in each region. You have 8 Gyms, most of which are 2-parters, the occasional loss for Ash, then the league.

You have to show all the captures and evolutions among the group. Then the female companion usually has her own quest and development. Then the supporting cast. Then the rivals of the region. Then the locations from the games and villains.

Even the original Kanto saga was 82 episodes, and it felt rushed since the league was so short and Ash's pokemon got little development back then. 100 episodes is fine for a saga, its when it goes on double that, then it gets bogged down.

 

[Karxrida]

They are not required to show every little goddamn thing, and they don't anyway so that argument is kind of moot. The show honestly has had bad writing practices from the beginning because there are a ton of other shows that have a complete and coherent narrative with less than half of Kanto's run.

The show needs an overhaul or an axe.

 

[Ming-Ming]

They are not required to show every little goddamn thing, and they don't anyway so that argument is kind of moot. The show honestly has had bad writing practices from the beginning because there are a ton of other shows that have a complete and coherent narrative with less than half of Kanto's run.

The show needs an overhaul or an axe.

The best parts about Kanto WAS the fact that the writers didn't know what they were doing, though! So they invented their own canon, since Pokemon was this new and crazy thing that Game Freak probably didn't have TOO many ideas for.
The anime was born out of "Okay you have X amount of time. This series is going to end with your upcoming movie, GO." And oh wait, Pokemon was a massive hit, both in Japan AND internationally, so... The writers now are saddled with being Kinda Lazy, since the anime generates money all day.
I just kinda miss episodes about Scyther and Electabuzz hating red, and Pikac loving ketchup. Stuff like that is endearing.

 

[Karxrida]

Kanto was better but still really boring. I could not bring myself to pay attention when I watched it on Netflix awhile back specifically because I didn't have a reason to care about what was happening most of the time.

 

[precita]

Well if you don't like the anime in general then that's that. The show is entertaining to me for what it does, and its not like you have to watch every single filler or so.

A lot of people like Kanto precisely because back then the show felt like a slapstick cartoon rather than just a game adaption. The show was never intended to be plot driven even from the start.

 

[LightningLord2]

The Orange Islands segment was the better one of the Gen 1 seasons - it had some great moments and does a better job at "we do our own thing that's still Pokémon-related", especially since they made gyms that don't involve Pokémon fighting each other. The original Kanto series is Pokémon in name only. Many plot-related things are cut entirely (though I can understand network interference with the Safari Zone, cutting major areas such as Lavender Town and Silph Co. is a big no), the characters were either gone or replaced by lookalikes (Anime Brock, Erika, Lorelei and especially Sabrina are nothing like their game counterparts), typing is completely meaningless and the entire Team Rocket arc is removed (Jessie and James are by no means bad, but that's no excuse not to have something in that direction).

Later seasons do a better job at portraying the games, even if there's wacky shenanigans here and there (Thunder Armor and Counter Shield being prime examples).

 

[DHR-107]

Later seasons do a better job at portraying the games, even if there's wacky shenanigans here and there (Thunder Armor and Counter Shield being prime examples).

Counter Shield was pretty legit though. Shame it hasn't been used much since Sinnoh. Are you saying you wouldn't develop a tactic like that if it aided you in winning matches?

 

[Antihaxxer]

I think Counter Shield was used one last time in B/W but that technic was a bit too powerful

 

[precita]

None of the characters act like their game counterparts, but they don't have to either. The anime was never a direct adaption of the game so they can do whatever they want with the characters.

Sometimes I think the game gets influenced by the anime especially in remakes. For example I think ORAS May felt a lot like the anime version of May, especially when she's your rival in the games. When May is your rival in ORAS she's generally cheery, energetic, enthusiastic, develops a crush on Brendan, etc...it felt exactly like her anime incarnation. I don't remember how the original R/S May was but I'm pretty sure her dialogue was heavily changed in the remake.

 

[Pikachu315111]

None of the characters act like their game counterparts, but they don't have to either. The anime was never a direct adaption of the game so they can do whatever they want with the characters.

Sometimes I think the game gets influenced by the anime especially in remakes. For example I think ORAS May felt a lot like the anime version of May, especially when she's your rival in the games. When May is your rival in ORAS she's generally cheery, energetic, enthusiastic, develops a crush on Brendan, etc...it felt exactly like her anime incarnation. I don't remember how the original R/S May was but I'm pretty sure her dialogue was heavily changed in the remake.

Not sure about the May example, but the most obvious would be Iris being from the Village of Dragons. That little tidbit was first revealed in the anime. I suppose GF could have always had her from being there and just told the anime writers that, though I could also see them adding it in just so they could have her come from somewhere as it doesn't really matter in the games (the only thing that mattered is she came from a foreign land to become Drayde's apprentice and in return she gets to become a Champion).

And there is this list of cross-canon references.

 

[Karxrida]

I don't think anything about NPC May was changed outside of adding some ship tease with Brendan. Bulbapedia has all of her dialogue if you really want to see if there are any major differences between the originals and remakes.