Gen 4 General Ubers Generation 4 Discussion

[Theorymon]

Ubers Generation Four​

Welcome to the general Generation 4 Ubers discussion thread! Gen 4 is when the Ubers community really started to become its own thing, so this metagame in particular has a rather rich history! Feel free to talk about the good old days, but don't forget, talking about how the metagame has changed today is welcome too!

Before you get started, here's a link to the old Generation 4 Ubers forum. It may have been frozen years ago, but it's still nice to look at another big piece of Ubers history! Fun fact: The Ubers forum wasn't even originally a subforum, it started out as a community group (something Xenforo doesn't support). We used to just post Ubers stuff all in one big Gen 4 forum, and we usually hung out in these GIGANTIC mega-threads.

Below are some major mechanical differences from Generation 6 to get you started!

Special thanks to:

Goddess Briyella for grammar checking these threads!
Fusxfaranto for compiling the Pokémon, Move, Ability, and Item lists!

Pokémon, Moves, Abilities, and Items that don't exist in this Generation

IIn the hide tags below are the Pokémon, Abilities, Moves, and Items that did NOT exist in this generation. These lists are huge, so use the find function on your computer or browser to look for stuff in particular!

Pokémon that don't exist in Gen 4

Accelgor
Aegislash
Alomomola
Amaura
Amoonguss
Archen
Archeops
Aromatisse
Audino
Aurorus
Avalugg
Axew
Barbaracle
Basculin
Beartic
Beheeyem
Bergmite
Binacle
Bisharp
Blitzle
Boldore
Bouffalant
Braixen
Braviary
Bunnelby
Carbink
Carracosta
Chandelure
Chesnaught
Chespin
Cinccino
Clauncher
Clawitzer
Cobalion
Cofagrigus
Conkeldurr
Cottonee
Crustle
Cryogonal
Cubchoo
Darmanitan
Darumaka
Dedenne
Deerling
Deino
Delphox
Dewott
Diancie
Diggersby
Doublade
Dragalge
Drilbur
Druddigon
Ducklett
Duosion
Durant
Dwebble
Eelektrik
Eelektross
Elgyem
Emboar
Emolga
Escavalier
Espurr
Excadrill
Fennekin
Ferroseed
Ferrothorn
Flabebe
Fletchinder
Fletchling
Floette
Florges
Foongus
Fraxure
Frillish
Froakie
Frogadier
Furfrou
Galvantula
Garbodor
Genesect
Gigalith
Gogoat
Golett
Golurk
Goodra
Goomy
Gothita
Gothitelle
Gothorita
Gourgeist
Greninja
Gurdurr
Hawlucha
Haxorus
Heatmor
Heliolisk
Helioptile
Herdier
Honedge
Hydreigon
Inkay
Jellicent
Joltik
Karrablast
Keldeo
Klang
Klefki
Klink
Klinklang
Krokorok
Krookodile
Kyurem
Lampent
Landorus
Larvesta
Leavanny
Liepard
Lilligant
Lillipup
Litleo
Litwick
Malamar
Mandibuzz
Maractus
Meloetta
Meowstic
Mienfoo
Mienshao
Minccino
Munna
Musharna
Noibat
Noivern
Oshawott
Palpitoad
Pancham
Pangoro
Panpour
Pansage
Pansear
Patrat
Pawniard
Petilil
Phantump
Pidove
Pignite
Pumpkaboo
Purrloin
Pyroar
Quilladin
Reshiram
Reuniclus
RogGenrola
Rufflet
Samurott
Sandile
Sawk
Sawsbuck
Scatterbug
Scolipede
Scrafty
Scraggy
Seismitoad
Serperior
Servine
Sewaddle
Shelmet
Sigilyph
Simipour
Simisage
Simisear
Skiddo
Skrelp
Sliggoo
Slurpuff
Snivy
Solosis
Spewpa
Spritzee
Stoutland
Stunfisk
Swadloon
Swanna
Swirlix
Swoobat
Sylveon
Talonflame
Tepig
Terrakion
Throh
Thundurus
Timburr
Tirtouga
Tornadus
Tranquill
Trevenant
Trubbish
Tympole
Tynamo
Tyrantrum
Tyrunt
Unfezant
Vanillish
Vanillite
Vanilluxe
Venipede
Victini
Virizion
Vivillon
Volcarona
Vullaby
Watchog
Whimsicott
Whirlipede
Woobat
Xerneas
Yamask
Yveltal
Zebstrika
Zekrom
Zoroark
Zorua
Zweilous
Zygarde

Moves that don't exist in Gen 4

Acid Spray
Acrobatics
After You
Ally Switch
Aromatic Mist
Autotomize
Baby-Doll Eyes
Belch
Bestow
Blue Flare
Bolt Strike
Boomburst
Bulldoze
Celebrate
Chip Away
Circle Throw
Clear Smog
Coil
Confide
Cotton Guard
Crafty Shield
Dazzling Gleam
Diamond Storm
Disarming Voice
Dragon Tail
Draining Kiss
Drill Run
Dual Chop
Echoed Voice
Eerie Impulse
Electric Terrain
Electrify
Electro Ball
Electroweb
Entrainment
Fairy Lock
Fairy Wind
Fell Stinger
Fiery Dance
Final Gambit
Fire Pledge
Flame Burst
Flame Charge
Flower Shield
Flying Press
Forest's Curse
Foul Play
Freeze-Dry
Freeze Shock
Frost Breath
Fusion Bolt
Fusion Flare
Gear Grind
Geomancy
Glaciate
Grass Pledge
Grassy Terrain
Guard Split
Happy Hour
Head Charge
Heal Pulse
Heart Stamp
Heat Crash
Heavy Slam
Hex
Hold Back
Hone Claws
Horn Leech
Hurricane
Ice Burn
Icicle Crash
Incinerate
Inferno
Infestation
Ion Deluge
King's Shield
Land's Wrath
Leaf Tornado
Low Sweep
Magic Room
Magnetic Flux
Mat Block
Misty Terrain
Moonblast
Mystical Fire
Night Daze
Noble Roar
Nuzzle
Oblivion Wing
Parabolic Charge
Parting Shot
Petal Blizzard
Phantom Force
Play Nice
Play Rough
Powder
Power-Up Punch
Power Split
Psyshock
Psystrike
Quash
Quick Guard
Quiver Dance
Rage Powder
Razor Shell
Reflect Type
Relic Song
Retaliate
Rototiller
Round
Sacred Sword
Scald
Searing Shot
Secret Sword
Shell Smash
Shift Gear
Simple Beam
Sky Drop
Sludge Wave
Smack Down
Snarl
Soak
Spiky Shield
Steamroller
Sticky Web
Stored Power
Storm Throw
Struggle Bug
Synchronoise
Tail Slap
Techno Blast
Telekinesis
Topsy-Turvy
Trick-Or-Treat
V-Create
Venom Drench
Venoshock
Volt Switch
Water Pledge
Water Shuriken
Wide Guard
Wild Charge
Wonder Room
Work Up

Abilities that don't exist in Gen 4

Aerilate
Analytic
Aroma Veil
Aura Break
Big Pecks
Bulletproof
Cheek Pouch
Competitive
Contrary
Cursed Body
Dark Aura
Defeatist
Defiant
Fairy Aura
Flare Boost
Flower Veil
Friend Guard
Fur Coat
Gale Wings
Gooey
Grass Pelt
Harvest
Healer
Heavy Metal
Illusion
Imposter
Infiltrator
Iron Barbs
Justified
Light Metal
Magic Bounce
Magician
Mega Launcher
Moody
Moxie
Multiscale
Mummy
Overcoat
Parental Bond
Pickpocket
Pixilate
Poison Touch
Prankster
Protean
Rattled
Refrigerate
ReGenerator
Sand Force
Sand Rush
Sap Sipper
Sheer Force
Stance Change
Strong Jaw
Sweet Veil
Symbiosis
Telepathy
Teravolt
Tough Claws
Toxic Boost
Turboblaze
Unnerve
Victory Star
Weak Armor
Wonder Skin
Zen Mode

Items that don't exist in Gen 4

Every Mega Evolution stone
Absorb Bulb
Air Balloon
Assault Vest
Binding Band
Cell Battery
Eject Button
Eviolite
Float Stone
Kee Berry
Luminous Moss
Maranga Berry
Pixie Plate
Red Card
Ring Target
Rocky Helmet
Safety Goggles
Snowball
Weakness Policy

The lack of Hidden Abilities

Hidden Abilities were introduced in Generation 5, meaning that a lot of Pokémon lose significant abilities in Generation 4! The only big Pokémon that lose actual Generation 4 abilities are Blaziken with Speed Boost (making it outclassed by Infernape in Ubers) and Garchomp with Rough Skin.

Typing changes

Since the Fairy type was introduced in Generation 6, this means that Dragons run really rampant in Generation 4! Steel also resists Ghost- and Dark-type moves in this generation.

Weather is permanent

Weather was nerfed in Generation 6, but not so in this metagame! Kyogre, Groudon, Tyranitar, and to a much lesser extent, Abomasnow, are all present in this metagame, meaning that you will have to prepare for all kinds of permanent weather!

Leads and the lack of team preview

Unlike Generations 5 and 6, there was no team preview in Generation 4. This not only means that you don't know what Pokémon your opponent is carrying. you also can't choose which Pokémon leads for that match. Instead, your lead is always the first Pokémon on your team. This increases the risk factor in a lot of matches due to having predict what your opponent's team is carrying, and also creates an entire "Lead metagame" in Generation 4!

The hazards factor and the lack of Defog

Defog didn't get rid of the opponent's hazards n Generation 4. This, combined with the power of Rapid Spin blockers, and leads like Deoxys-S, means that hazards are far more difficult to get rid of! That's not to say they're impossible to get rid of, but every team has to take hazards into account! One more thing to note: Sticky Web wasn't introduced until Generation 6.

Explosion and Selfdestruct

In Generation 4, Explosion and Selfdestruct actually halve the opponent's defense RIGHT before hitting them, meaning that it essentially doubles their base power! This has a huge affect on the metagame, making Pokémon like Selfdestruct Mewtwo seen, and making Pokémon like Mew, Bronzong, and Metagross FAR more dangerous than in later generations.

Other Move and Ability changes
Critical Hits: Unfortunately, Critical Hits do DOUBLE damage this generation, not 1.5x.

Various special moves: Generation 6 nerfed the power of a lot of special moves, such as Dragon Pulse, Fire Blast, Hydro Pump, Surf, Thunder, etc. These moves are more powerful this generation!

Sturdy: This does not act like a Focus Sash this generation. Sorry Forretress, that Groudon Fire Blast will always OHKO you in the sun!

Encore: These last 4-8 turns now. This is pretty huge for Wobbuffet in particular!

Taunt: This lasts 2-4 turns now.

Shadow Tag: This traps Ghost-types in Generation 4, and is particularly relevant for trapping Giratina as Wobbuffet. Also, Wobbuffet and Wynaut are your only choice for Shadow Taggers this generation!

Paralysis: Unlike Generation 6, paralysis status DOES effect Electric-types.

Sound moves: These moves no longer ignore Substitutes.

Magic Coat: This does NOT deflect hazards in Generation 4.

Knock Off: This move is always 20 BP in this generation.

Mean Look: In this generation, Mean Look traps Ghost-types. It can also be Baton Passed.

Mental Herb and Oblivious: This item and ability only blocks attraction in this generation.

ExtremeSpeed: This move has +1 priority in this generation.

Powder moves: These moves effect Grass-types and Pokémon with Overcoat this

Wish: This always restores 50% of the receivers health.

The Farceus factor

Arceus is sort of a strange topic for Generation 4. Long story short, Arceus can only have 100 EVs max in each stat. This gave Arceus the nickname of "Farceus" in the community, as Arceus could never have its full potential. This led to implementation problems, meaning that Arceus was never correctly implemented on Shoddy, the old Generation 4 simulator.

Because of this, the playerbase tends to be split on whether or not Arceus should be played with, as the only way to use Arceus in Generation 4 was to use Pokémon Online, which wasn't popular until Generation 5. For the purpose of this thread, you can talk about BOTH Generation 4 metagames, but note that there may be a "Farceus thread" in case you're particularly interested in that version of Gen 4 Ubers! In General though, feel free to bring up the Farceus metagame in other threads as long as you mention that you're doing so!

 

[shrang]

Small nitpick - Extremespeed (as it was then spelled) was only +1 priority, so Weavile could actually out-priority SD Ray back in the day

 

[BKC]

it should be mentioned that in dpp, unlike in bw, wish always restores 50% of the recipients health, its not based off the health of the wisher (ie a dialga with 342 hp will always receive 121 hp wishes even if its getting the wish from a 714 hp blissey).

edit LOL oops I meant 171 not 121 forgive me

 

[Iris]

you may want to check your math!

sleep doesn't reset!

 

[Theorymon]

So, now that my memorial weekend nightmare is over, there is something I wanna share with you guys!

Right beore gen 4 ended, I was testing out something very cool and weird in the Farceus metagame: Custap Berry! This wasn't usable on shoddy, but Pokémon Online had it implemented.

Now of course, I think most of you know about the terror of Custap Wobbuffet. For those of you that don't: Custap Wobbuffet takes advantage of Destiny Bond. If Wobbuffet is at 25% of its health, it gets +0.5 priority. Since Wobbuffet is so slow, and Destiny Bond lasts until Wobbuffet moves again, this can put a lot of Pokémon in an extremely uncomfortable situation: Attack and die, or use a status / set up move and get set up on! Also as a side effect, Destiny Bond made Wobbuffet a pretty effective trapper of Giratina-O, which is pretty handy!

Now, that Giratina-O trapping part ended up being more important for me than I expected, because I ended up testing out 2 other Custap Pokémon a bit before gen 5 came out. The first is Metagross, with Meteor Mash / Endure / Explosion / (depends on my mood, I used anything from Stealth Rock to Earthquake to even really weird moves like Grass Knot). Remember, Explosion is twice as powerful as normal in gen 4, which means priority Explosion is some SERIOUSLY scary stuff! Endure in particular was cool, because there was often situations where Metagross would kill stuff like a lastmon Kyogre thanks to Endure + Priority Explosion.

The last Custap mon I tested was a really weird one though: It was none other than SNORLAX! I think I used Return / Endure / Selfdestruct / Crunch (though GIratina-O can totally take a few of those). Good lord Selfdestruct was powerful, and Snorlax's bulk did come in handy... However, outside of Selfdestruct, it was pretty weak, so I recall liking Metagross more.

I'm probably going to retry this custap stuff later, and maybe even think about new mons to test for custap! Especially since I only tried this stuff in the Farceus metagame. I totally want to try it in DPP Classic too!

 

[Inspirited]

I'm personally going to try out Bronzong as a Custap user, which is something I have been meaning to do for years now, since it seems to live hits at around Custap range anyways. It also gets Endure so it doesn't have to rely on damage rolls anyways. I still think it would be better as a pure Trick Room user (makes it so it doesn't really need Custap) but this is gen 4 and what is gen 4 if not competitive with side of fun stuff.

 

[Kejmur]

Also in Diamond/Pearl Hypnosis has 70% accuracy, making it viable option for example on Gengar. Also Scizor didn't receive his Bullet Punch before Platinum (which is huge for him, turning him from niche pick to probably the best Steel type around). Also no Psystrike for MewTwo (or Psyshock) so for example to eliminate Blissey MewTwo dedicated in most cases one of his moveslots for Explosion.

Heck I would honestly even consider splitting Generation 4 thread into 2 other ones - One including Diamond/Pearl (and even lack of Arceus for most of it's time, IMO Gen 4 Without Arceus was one of the most fun and 'balanced' metas around with even some most unique gimmicks working on certain comps, even if it was totally weather based with Kyogre being undisputed king [I miss you Soul Dew Lati@s] and hazard control being even more crucial). Some changes between Diamond/Pearl and Platinum were really gamechanging IMO to the point where metagames were really different to consider this option. Just some food for thought.