General Updates for Existing Uber Analyses

[firecape]

I've been wondering, if HP Fire is quite difficult to come across, (without the means of RNG and/or various other mechanics) wouldn't Earth Power/Aura Sphere be able to cover the usual Steel-type stall/wall/tank's? I mean, considering that there are barely any number Steel/Bug Ubers, Scizor and Forretress, avaliable. And they both can be taken down by Earth Power and even Aura Sphere. OHKO, if not, 2HKO. (Yes, I've considered the fact that they are physically bulk.)

AS and EP provides great coverages too.

Ummm...what? First of all, Giratina-O's standard mix spread Aura Sphere does 21.8% - 26% to the standard CB Scizor and 22% - 26% to specially defensive Forretress, so it would be good if you actually used the damage calculator before claiming 2HKOs and OHKOs :|...

Second, analyses always assume perfect IVs and and everything. Third, Earth Power and Aura Sphere are special attacks....

 

[shrang]

I'm just wondering if Choice Band Palkia needs to stay. I've been writing the 5th gen Palkia theorymon analysis and the question dawned on me (I know 5th gen is different). The reason is that Garchomp outclasses it in pretty much every way (Apart from double Water-STAB and being able to switch into Water Spout) as a Choice Bander, since he has a higher Atk stat, higher Speed (Which is crucial) and arguably better STAB.

 

[calze6]

Well, on that thing I wrote, I recommended CB for retesting so I am seconding this.

 

[firecape]

I have applied the format changes (they may not cached yet) to all of these Pokemon:

Garchomp
Latias
Mew
Wobbuffet

These Pokemon all need Overviews, if you would like write an overview for one of them simply post it in this thread.

 

[shrang]

Alright, I've written up a quick Latias Overview:

[Overview]

<p>Do not be fooled by Latias' one year stint in OU. With Soul Dew attached, she is one of the most useful and versatile Pokemon in the Ubers tier, being able to check a huge number of dangerous threats, most notably Kyogre while threatening to sweep at a moment's notice. Latias is also a brilliant support Pokemon, being able to pass Wish to teammates or setting up screens to assist in a sweep. There is a place for Latias on any Ubers team and she will always perform her job well.</p>


I may be overhyping her a bit, but she's THAT good. Seriously.

 

[calze6]

Latias, imo, is a counter rather than a check to kyogre.

 

[firecape]

Alright, I've written up a quick Latias Overview:

[Overview]

<p>Do not be fooled by Latias' one year stint in OU. With Soul Dew attached, she is one of the most useful and versatile Pokemon in the Ubers tier, being able to check a huge number of dangerous threats, most notably Kyogre while threatening to sweep at a moment's notice. Latias is also a brilliant support Pokemon, being able to pass Wish to teammates or setting up screens to assist in a sweep. There is a place for Latias on any Ubers team and she will always perform her job well. She may not carry as much power as her brother, Latios, but her bulk more than makes up for it.</p>


I may be overhyping her a bit, but she's THAT good. Seriously.

rather than wait and ask, I just added a bit. I will try to have someone get this GPed (I really doubt it needs more than one for such a small entry) and on site soon.

 

[Fatecrashers]

here you go

Do not be fooled by Latias's one year stint in OU. With Soul Dew attached, she is one of the most useful and versatile Pokemon in the Ubers tier, being able to check a huge number of dangerous threats, most notably Kyogre, while threatening to sweep at a moment's notice. Latias is also a brilliant support Pokemon, being able to pass Wish to teammates or set up screens to assist in a sweep. There is a place for Latias on any Ubers team and she will always perform her job well. She may not carry as much raw firepower as her brother Latios, but what she lacks in strength, she more than makes up for in bulk.

 

[Aeron Ee1]

Do not be fooled by Latias's one year stint in OU

Do not be fooled by Garchomp’s previous status as an OU Pokémon

Are we really going to use the same opening line, here?

 

[firecape]

on site, just needs to be cached. Thanks fate :). And @the above poster, I really don't see why not? The fact holds true for both so what's the problem, it's not like the analyses go hand in hand either.

 

[firecape]

Decided to whip up Wobbuffet's quickly, posting here so nobody else attempt to do it.

Iconic is currently taking care of a full Mew update but feel free to post an overview here. Shrang has taken care of Garchomp.

[Overview]
<p>At first glance, Wobbuffet appears to be a pathetic excuse for a Pokemon with awful stats, sans HP, and a movepool that's as shallow as can be. If one cares to look closer, however, Wobbuffet can be quite a threatening force. It possesses the ability to either kill any Pokemon whom it wishes with proper prediction and the combination of Encore and either Mirror Coat or Counter. It can also use Encore to make a support Pokemon complete set up fodder. Although it's almost completely shut down by Taunt (Mirror Coat and Counter ignore Taunt), it is still definitely a force to prepare for; you can suddenly find yourself without a check to a very threatening sweeper or utterly helpless to do anything as one of the opponent's Pokemon gets a free turn of set up.</p>

edit: GPed via direct edit to post and on site.

 

[calze6]

With kyogre, on the scarf set, would sleep talk deserve a slash?

 

[locoghoul]

I think Rayquaza's analysis need some revision. I found two mistakes:

"Only use Jolly Swords Dance Rayquaza if your team has no other way to beat Lugia." How on earth is Jolly SD Quaza a way to deal with Lugia? Are we assuming Jolly Rayquaza is outspeeding Lugia (lol)? Isn't Lugia designed to outspeed Rayquaza?

On the MixQuaza set:

"Only the most defensive of Groudon will survive the first hit while standard Lugia will always be 2HKOed with Stealth Rock on the field."
While the first statement is true, LO Draco Meteor does 54.8% - 64.4% to Lugia, the subsequent LO Extreme Speed does 20% - 23.6%% therefore not "2HKOing" Lugia considering SR and Leftovers. All Lugia has to do is Roost off damage as it IS faster than Rayquaza.

I expect this to be removed in the 5th gen analysis if not sooner for the 4th gen one. Thanks

 

[shrang]

I think Rayquaza's analysis need some revision. I found two mistakes:

"Only use Jolly Swords Dance Rayquaza if your team has no other way to beat Lugia." How on earth is Jolly SD Quaza a way to deal with Lugia? Are we assuming Jolly Rayquaza is outspeeding Lugia (lol)? Isn't Lugia designed to outspeed Rayquaza?

On the MixQuaza set:

"Only the most defensive of Groudon will survive the first hit while standard Lugia will always be 2HKOed with Stealth Rock on the field."
While the first statement is true, LO Draco Meteor does 54.8% - 64.4% to Lugia, the subsequent LO Extreme Speed does 20% - 23.6%% therefore not "2HKOing" Lugia considering SR and Leftovers. All Lugia has to do is Roost off damage as it IS faster than Rayquaza.

I expect this to be removed in the 5th gen analysis if not sooner for the 4th gen one. Thanks

Yeah, those were true when most people used Bold Lugia with 204 Speed EVs, although Jolly SD Ray does have its merits (Not being revenged by Giratina-O and +ve Dialga). About the MixQuaza calc, while it wrong now that Lugia will always be 2HKOed (Again, it used to be Bold Lugia), it is still getting 2HKOed on average with Stealth Rock, yes??

 

[locoghoul]

About the MixQuaza calc, while it wrong now that Lugia will always be 2HKOed (Again, it used to be Bold Lugia), it is still getting 2HKOed on average with Stealth Rock, yes??

No, from my own experience (I love MixQuaza) and from the dmg calcs I ran (read my post) it can't 2HKO even with SR (and lefties) unless Lugia has taken some damage already.

 

[calze6]

Yeah, but timid lugia can just outrun it and then roost.

 

[locoghoul]

lol, I edited my post. I meant can't. That was the whole point of my original post: that analysis needs to be slightly corrected.

 

[symphonyx64]

May I suggest the inclusion of Surf somewhere in Latios' analysis, preferably in "Optional Changes." It has a notable merit in nearly OHKOing bulky Heatran in the Rain, which would otherwise give Latios problems. It also OHKOs Lucario in the rain, while Thunder does not. Its also a nice general purpose move when you don't feel like spamming Draco Meteor right from the beginning. Just a thought.

 

[shrang]

Yeah, but timid lugia can just outrun it and then roost.

DM+Extremespeed 2HKOs after Stealth Rock on average.

 

[locoghoul]

DM+Extremespeed 2HKOs after Stealth Rock on average.

Please read three posts above and realize that your statement is false.

 

[shrang]

Please read three posts above and realize that your statement is false.

How is it false?? I'm using you calculations here:

"Only the most defensive of Groudon will survive the first hit while standard Lugia will always be 2HKOed with Stealth Rock on the field."
While the first statement is true, LO Draco Meteor does 54.8% - 64.4% to Lugia, the subsequent LO Extreme Speed does 20% - 23.6% therefore not "2HKOing" Lugia considering SR and Leftovers. All Lugia has to do is Roost off damage as it IS faster than Rayquaza.

So basically, over two hits, Rayquaza is doing 74.8-88% damage with Draco Meteor and Extremespeed. The average of this is 81.4%. Stealth Rock and Leftovers leave Lugia with 81.25% health to spare. Don't tell me about Roost, since Ray outspeeds it with priority. So yeah, you are still 2HKOing on average. However, I will acknowledge that the analysis need a bit to be a bit more up to date.

 

[calze6]

Yeah, it does 2HKO although sash leads won't.

 

[locoghoul]

I have a question about BP Mew. Why is Calm the only nature listed? Why not Careful? The only answers I can come up are PorygonZ (lol) and confusion damage. If it's the latter then Careful should get at least a slash since BP Mew is not getting confused anyday with a Lum Berry and just 3 turns in battle.

 

[shrang]

I have a question about BP Mew. Why is Calm the only nature listed? Why not Careful? The only answers I can come up are PorygonZ (lol) and confusion damage. If it's the latter then Careful should get at least a slash since BP Mew is not getting confused anyday with a Lum Berry and just 3 turns in battle.

1) Ubers tend to hit on the Special side, so Calm is better. You can take stuff like 2 Specs Surfs from Kyogre after Dual Screens IIRC and pass off the boost
2) Calm takes less confusion damage
3) You can think of PorygonZ and not practically every other Uber who attacks Specially (Kyogre, Dialga, Latias, Palkia, the list goes on and on and on)??

 

[locoghoul]

1) Ubers tend to hit on the Special side, so Calm is better. You can take stuff like 2 Specs Surfs from Kyogre after Dual Screens IIRC and pass off the boost
2) Calm takes less confusion damage
3) You can think of PorygonZ and not practically every other Uber who attacks Specially (Kyogre, Dialga, Latias, Palkia, the list goes on and on and on)??

LMAO

Careful : + Sp.Def -Sp.Atk

So the only difference between Calm and Careful is "less confusion damage". Smogon calcs says 6.7-7.9% vs 7.2-8.7% in case you want to know how dumb that argument is.

And before someone else jumps in arguing that 1% can make a difference in your beloved baton chain, etc, etc. let me ask you when in any uber match in the history of pokemon have Mew been confused when baton passing?????? The guy has a Lum Berry and Taunt for f*** sake. Only way for it to get confused in that metagame is if someone uses Confuse Ray (ok I'll write you a blank check if you show me a game with Confuse Ray being used in ubers), from Signal Beam (again who uses that in ubers), from Water Pulse (same story) or Dynamic Punch (assuming from Machamp otherwise is 50% chance). And did I mention it carries Lum Berry again?

So there, convince me Calm is the "superior option" now.

EDIT: Only reason I mentioned PoryZ is because of Download. I know it's not even used in ubers but I was just trying to find any reason why would Careful could not be considered.