Gen 4 Generation 4 Viability Ranking (OU)

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by OiawesomeDG, Sep 28, 2013.

  1. OiawesomeDG

    OiawesomeDG

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    [​IMG] DPP OU Viability Ranking Thread [​IMG]
    credit to PK gaming for the idea C: also holy fuck it feels weird to be using gen 4 sprites lol
    Welcome to the official DPP OU Viability Rankings topic. You should know the drill by now; In this thread, we as a community will rank every single usable Pokemon into "tiers." In this thread, you're encouraged to post your thoughts and opinions on the various Pokemon that are usable in DPP OU and what tier they should fall under. It's about time the RoA subforum joined in on the action!

    The general idea of the topic is to rank each DPP OU pokemon under "rankings" that go in descending order. Since this is a general tier list, everything is lumped together. There won't be any segregation between offense & defense threats.

    • EX: Flygon can be ranked in A tier as an offensive threat, Skarmory can be ranked under A as supportive threat and Heatran can be can be ranked in S tier as a versatile threat. These are just examples, they may actually not end up being true.
    Note that the overall tier list is in no particular order.

    MUST READ

    ..okay. Since it's apparent that everyone will want their "favorites" moved up until nothing exists in any rank below C, I'm going to try to introduce some objectivity into these proceedings.

    S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.

    A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time.

    B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job or are setup bait for dangerous sweepers. Pokemon who are partially outclassed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank, but are otherwise very dangerous, may also fall into this category.

    C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are typically inferior to Pokemon in the above ranks.

    D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who are simply not very effective in the current metagame.


    PRELIMINARY DPP OU Ranking tier list V1

    OU rankings (open)
    (Subject to change & in alphabetical order for now! will do later)

    S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.

    • [​IMG]Heatran
      Write Up (open)
      Heatran is often considered one of the greatest DPPt pokemon, and for good reason. Heatran's amazing combo of great bulk, awesome typing, monstrous Special Attack, decent speed tier, flash fire and unmatched versatility and movepool is one of the best things to have in the DPPt metagame. Heatran's versatility stops any would be counter from being an actual counter (i.e. HP grass metal sound from the analysis stomping bulky waters) however not without it's flaws, weaknesses to extremely common moves such as Earthquake, Surf, and Close Combat hinder its walling potential and missing out on 80+ speed pokemon without a scarf equipped. However despite this, Heatran is still one amazing pokemon in DPPt OU.
    • [​IMG]Tyranitar
    • [​IMG]Rotom-A
    • [​IMG] Starmie
    • [​IMG] Jirachi
    A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time.

    A+ Rank:
    • [​IMG] Dragonite
    • [​IMG] Hippowdon
    • [​IMG] Zapdos
    • [​IMG] Blissey
    A rank:
    • [​IMG] Flygon
    • [​IMG] Skarmory
    • [​IMG] Forretress
    • [​IMG] Azelf
    • [​IMG] Swampert
    • [​IMG] Gyarados
    • [​IMG] Breloom
    • [​IMG] Gengar
    • [​IMG] Lucario
    • [​IMG] Kingdra
    • [​IMG] Metagross
    • [​IMG] Scizor
    • [​IMG] Celebi
    • [​IMG] Infernape
    • [​IMG] Suicune
    • [​IMG] Gliscor
    A- Rank:
    • [​IMG] Jolteon
    • [​IMG] Raikou
    • [​IMG] Shaymin
    • [​IMG] Crobat

    B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job or are setup bait for dangerous sweepers. Pokemon who are partially outperformed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank, but are otherwise very dangerous, may also fall into this category.

    B+ Rank:
    • [​IMG] Aerodactyl
    • [​IMG] Abomasnow
    • [​IMG] Venusaur
    • [​IMG] Bronzong
    B Rank:
    • [​IMG] Machamp
    • [​IMG] Milotic
    • [​IMG] Slowbro
    • [​IMG] Clefable
    • [​IMG] Registeel
    • [​IMG] Togekiss
    • [​IMG] Empoleon
    • [​IMG] Mamoswine
    • [​IMG] Snorlax
    • [​IMG] Roserade
    • [​IMG] Vaporeon
    • [​IMG] Tentacruel
    • [​IMG] Hitmontop
    • [​IMG] Weavile
    • [​IMG] Dugtrio
    • [​IMG] Heracross
    B- Rank:
    • [​IMG] Nidoqueen
    • [​IMG] Cresselia
    • [​IMG] Lanturn

    C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks.

    C+ Rank:
    • [​IMG] Spiritomb
    • [​IMG] Magnezone
    • [​IMG] Honchkrow
    • [​IMG] Staraptor
    • [​IMG] Uxie
    • [​IMG] Cradily
    C Rank:
    • [​IMG] Froslass
    • [​IMG] Blaziken
    • [​IMG] Donphan
    • [​IMG] Gallade
    • [​IMG]Yanmega
    • [​IMG] Hariyama
    • [​IMG] Moltres
    • [​IMG] Rhyperior
    • [​IMG] Torterra
    • [​IMG] Quagsire

    D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who have a small niche in the current OU metagame, but have very noticable flaws that make them more trouble then their worth the majority of the time.

    (d rank so bad they don't deserve xy sprites nbor separation imho)
    • [​IMG] Electivire
    • [​IMG] Umbreon
    • [​IMG] Ninjask
    • [​IMG] Dusknoir
    • [​IMG] Porygon-Z
    • [​IMG] Ambipom
    • [​IMG] Smeargle


    Rules
    ~Post intelligently. Posts like "I think pokemon X should be in this tier" will not be tolerated
    ~No flaming
    ~Usage statistics may be used to support an argument or a claim, but don't base your ENTIRE argument around them. For example, you can't just say "Pokemon X shouldn't be this tier because they aren't used that often!"
    ~No talk about editing the OFFICIAL smogon tier lists, yes this means no talk about Latias, mence or whatever being moved down, we have a thread for that.
    ~Bacon is amazing. This is an undisputed fact.

    This is very much in development so I really need you guys to contribute, remember, viability rankings cannot be made by 1 person, it's a community thing
    Happy posting ♪♪
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2014
  2. JackieChun

    JackieChun

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    Alright, I'll bite. *blows dust off DPP knowledge*

    Gyarados: Definitely A Rank. It doesn't have a ton of versatility when it comes to the sets it can run. Bulky/Offensive Dragon Dance, Rest + Sleep Talk, Choice Band are the most common and you can usually narrow down what type of set Gyarados might be based on the other members of the opposing team (you can do this for other pokés too, though). But, the Dragon Dance sets that run Taunt are so dangerous for their ability to just flat out sweep the entire metagame at +2 and most of it even at +1. Once Rotom-A and/or their scarfer is gone (sometimes just Rotom-A), Gyarados runs through any stall team.

    Dragonite: If this thing isn't S Rank, it is DEFINITELY A Rank. This is just due to sheer unpredictability. There isn't a whole lot in the metagame that can safely come into Dragonite initially. It could be Dragon Dance(Bulky or Offensive), Mixed, Choice Band or even DD + Heal Bell or Agility. The Mixed Dragonite is arguably the most dangerous. The only safe switch is something absurdly bulky on both ends, like Suicune or Specially Defensive Hippowdon. Having reliable recovery in Roost only makes the problem that is Dragonite even bigger; mitigating it's Stealth Rock weakness and becoming a more effective stallbreaker.

    Gliscor: A solid B Rank pick, IMO. Offensively, it has trouble sweeping the metagame with it's Swords Dance variants, but where it really shines is in support. The "Britscor" set is a very popular pick on both offense and stall as a solid stallbreaker. Gliscor has the right amount of speed to outrun all the common walls that stall teams employ to prevent things like status, healing, and hazards with Taunt and has the right amount of physical bulk to switch into things like Close Combat. It's typing is amazing, giving it Electric and Ground immunity as well as being immune to (Toxic)Spikes. Roost allows Gliscor to stick around all game, especially with a lack of SR weakness. Earthquake is standard STAB and U-turn allows even stall teams to maintain momentum. Toxic still gets use to cripple the many Water-types that come in to force Gliscor out. Gliscor is also a solid Baton Passer fwiw. And, no matter what set you use, Sand Veil is the most annoying thing ever for anyone facing Gliscor in the sand since, unlike Gen 5, Sand Veil is not banned.

    I question Infernape as an A Rank threat a little bit. I just have trouble seeing Infernape as just as much of a threat as Starmie, who is faster, has a better typing, is just as much if not even more of a threat when holding Life Orb, and has a bit more utility. With Tyranitar and Hippowdon being S Rank threats(which I whole-heartedly agree with), sandstorm is a common condition. Infernape with Life Orb, the most dangerous set IMO, is worn down very quickly and Waters like Starmie, Gyarados and Tentacruel are solid answers to it. Even Vaporeon can check it. Infernape requires prediction to do real damage to a team on it's own. It is definitely a solid B Rank pick (and probably at the top of the list as far as B Rank goes). I just have trouble justifying the standard Infernape as A Rank.
    OiawesomeDG likes this.
  3. OiawesomeDG

    OiawesomeDG

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    I definitely agree with this post, the main thing is, sand stall and sand offense are where gliscor shines the brightest , due to it's annoyance with sand veil, support that it provides to sand teams and reliable recovery, it's really a bitch to face in sand, here's a match I had with The Reptile last night:
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/gen4oubeta-53565702

    this match really shows the annoyance that gliscor can be on teams like sand stall (I really was using quite the odd team, I didn't even have swampy, and that's my main man for sand stall) I lost, but mainly because Rep made a lot better plays and I had no SR on my team which was kinda stupid since I missed the kill on rachi by 8%.

    Other than that I 100% agree with this post, but I'll wait if anybody else has some words (will def add gyara for now)
  4. vileman

    vileman

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    Ill give it a try to add something to this list:
    Aerodactyl should be added to the list, and its B rank imo. It works well as a suicide lead due to his speed, and has a punch with stonequake. The fact that it has taunt also means that nothing is setting up on him, and can easily set up rocks.
    Suicune should also be added, he could run various sets like the common crocune, the purely offensive calm mind or a defensive set. His lack of reliable recovery and not so good movepool kinda holds him back tho, so i would give to it B rank.
    Machamp might as well be added, it is annoying to face due to his power and bulk, it was a great anti-lead poke with a good coverage and dynamicpunch itself was annoying due to the confusion it provided. A or B rank
    Zapdos was a good pokemon in the meta,could run different sets like the subroost toxic stall, a defensive set with roar and twave, an offensive set, it could even run scarf or specs to good use with his somewhat good movepool of tbolt, heat wave, hidden power and u-turn. His biggest problem was being useless against blissey, a common special wall who could wall it to death and didnt cared about toxic due to natural cure. I see it in B rank.
    Weavile is a poke that was kind of mediocre in this metagame; it had plenty of pokes that gave him trouble running around (most notably scizor and skarmory) and the dragons that he used to counter, are gone to ubers (latias, salamence, chomp a lot of time ago) so its not that good. possibly C rank.
    I hope this are someone accurrate views of the pokes, and i'd like to see more comments on this :]
    OiawesomeDG likes this.
  5. BKC

    BKC sorrow flew on black wings
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    As much as I love Hippowdon, I wouldn't say it's S rank. It is an amazing wall, but there are certain teams it can't stand up to very well, and there are just a lot of attackers that give it trouble on its own (namely Breloom and Suicune). A is fine for it.

    I would move Starmie up to S, it is an absolute terror offensively as well as being amazing glue with the defensive set, since it checks a lot of shit and rapid spin is huge.

    Zapdos is also S rank in my opinion, it has amazing utility and can run a lot of sets that are all really good; 3 atks + roost, specs, subroost, agility, phys/spdef... hell, it can even baton pass shit.

    Infernape seems fine in A to me. Sure it's revenged easily but it's got a lot of power, still has a nice speed tier, can run a good variety of sets, and rips a lot of teams apart.

    I would say Celebi and Scizor are B rank, they certainly are good but I don't think they're up there with the other dudes in A rank.

    Since there are a lot of pkmn missing in general, I think these lists are a good place to start, and people can discuss from there.
    A rank pkmn (open)
    Breloom
    Gengar
    Suicune
    Lucario
    Shaymin
    Jolteon
    Kingdra
    Dragonite
    Blissey
    Metagross

    B rank pkmn (open)
    Gliscor
    Togekiss
    Bronzong
    Aerodactyl
    Machamp
    Empoleon
    Abomasnow
    Milotic
    Venusaur
    Mamoswine
    Snorlax
    Roserade
    Vaporeon
    Raikou
    Weavile
    Crobat
    Nidoqueen

    C rank pkmn (open)
    Spiritomb
    Magnezone
    Dugtrio
    Honchkrow
    Tentacruel
    Yanmega
    Froslass
    Cradily
    Gallade
    Heracross
    Staraptor
    Hitmontop
    Uxie
    Hariyama
    Moltres
    Lanturn
    Rhyperior
    Torterra

    D rank pkmn (open)
    Dusknoir
    Electivire
    Cresselia
    Porygon-Z
    Ninjask
    Umbreon
    Ambipom
    Smeargle


    Thanks for making this thread, hope some good discussion comes out of it :toast:
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2013
  6. Jirachee

    Jirachee Pay attention to the fine print.
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    I think that bkc's list is pretty good, starmie is pretty much the definition of an s rank in dpp.

    also, I think dragonite should be s as it's ridiculously dangerous, especially the mixed set. there's very little defensive teams can do to wall it, and it gets cool options like dd and choice band too. it's good against all playstyles

    I really think hippowdon is far from s rank as sand stream is much less big of a thing than it is in bw. there's nothing to abuse really and since tyranitar is everywhere sand is gonna be there very often. It's a pretty good wall but it's not really a huge metagame threat
  7. JackieChun

    JackieChun

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    BKC makes a good point about Hippowdon. Hippowdon's biggest issue is against other stall teams as it's setup bait for Skarmory and even Forretress (especially if Hippowdon is burned). I still think it is definitely A rank though. The Specially Defensive set's ability to shut down offensive teams can't be ignored. As I said above, it's one of the few pokes that switches into MixNite safely. The more traditional Physically Defensive set isn't OHKO'd by Close Combat from +2 Lucario, arguably the most dangerous sweeper in DPP OU.

    Moving Starmie to S Rank solves my beef with Infernape having the same ranking as it. Starmie has the advantage of being a spinner as well (to be fair, both have access to reliable recovery). Everything else is fine, but I think you can make a case for Celebi being A Rank. When you think about it, Celebi is a LOT like Jirachi: it is extremely versatile, moreso than Shaymin IMO, but with a worse typing. Shaymin is A Rank as well, but for other reasons. Celebi is most known for it's role as a defensive mon, but it's also a great pivot, a good Scarfer (Jirachi and Shaymin are better, though), and a great setup sweeper. CM and NP are niches for Celebi as an OU Grass type, but they do end up sweeping a good portion of the metagame if allowed to set up. Instant recovery helps this as well. If Blissey doesn't have Toxic, like you find on some more balanced teams, she's not winning vs. CM/NP Celebi.

    Since we are including lower tiered mons that are viable in OU (or at least we should IMO), I'll add something else to the list:

    Quagsire: C Rank all the way. Biggest reason why is because Quagsire fits right in with all the other C Rankers on BKC's list that I deem a "metagame call": the ones that fulfill a specific niche. Quagsire's is the ability to shut down all common offensive Water types through it's Water/Ground typing and Water Absorb. Starmie and Offensive Suicune can't do anything to it as everything is a 3HKO at best. All mono-attacking Waters can't KO it either, though they can Toxic or Roar (e.g.: Vaporeon, Gyarados). Setup sweepers have to be very careful since they can get locked into their boosting move via Encore. It can even take on Metagross if needed, but shouldn't be your first answer if you have a better one. Quagsire's biggest issue is stall teams. Things like Gliscor, Skarmory and Forretress absolutely laugh at it as Quag is just setup bait for hazards or Taunt. Grass types also laugh at the standard OU set, but they can catch a Toxic (except Breloom :] ).
  8. BKC

    BKC sorrow flew on black wings
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    If Celebi's physically defensive leech seed set was still as good as it was before offensive Suicune was popular, I'd probably agree that it deserves A rank. Now, though, I'm not sure, since its walling capabilities have been greatly diminished (Infernape/Zapdos more common without Latias around, the aforementioned offensive Cune, the newly popular CB Flygon). It's a decent sweeper, but the weaknesses to pursuit / especially u-turn really hold it back. Shaymin's lack of a pursuit weak and only a 2x u-turn weak, which can usually be shrugged off with relative ease, are what I think it makes it usually better, as well as seed flare, although it does lose out on that sweet fighting resist. Celebi can certainly do cool stuff with its movepool such as baton passing its boosts but that's way easier said than done. It can twave shit too although with all the cb flygons running around that's not always the safest move. It can psong last pkmn setup sweepers, which plague most common stall teams if played well, but, again, its defensive sets just have a hard time keeping up against a lot of teams. I think nowadays Cele functions best as this sort of bulky attacker with leaf storm/hp fire/u-turn/recover. Definitely a good pkmn, just not as consistently effective as Shaymin in my opinion.

    I agree on Quagsire, it's decent.
  9. vileman

    vileman

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    Well, altho my ranking werent as good as BKC's at least it gave to this threat life :] gj on the list and posts BKC and jackiechuun!
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2013
  10. OiawesomeDG

    OiawesomeDG

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    Wow, did not expect this much discussion this early and so fast too, thanks so much guys, sorry I wasn't here for a while but work takes time and stuff lol , now onto things and replies n' such:
    I highly agree with this post, except for the second to last one, Dos was honestly one of the most dangerous pokemon to face in gen IV/4, because it's LO roost sets and choice specs sets just hit so hard and could pressure all archetypes due to their power combined with zapdos's relatively good bulk, healing in the form of roost and typing making it enabled to handle many revenge killers alike while still being able to offensively mess with them, I really do miss the ebelt/LO RD set that would always catch people off guard, man that thing's thunder hit like a truck. the scarf sets and the agility sets were a true roadblock for offense because it could just score vital KOs and not be KOd back by much, letting agilidos set up and scarf does revenge properly, though the rpesance of ttar, blissey and SR does hurt it, zapdos is still a very good pokemon in todays metagame of DPPt, between A and S imo.
    other than that, these changes will be added soon, though I'd like to see some more food for thought on weavile, as it was one of the best checks to flygon, zapdos and dnite.

    Thanks for this post bkc, glad to see more dppt players contributing to this :toast:

    I really cannot argue with this at all, this is just a really fucking good post mate, changes will be up after this post, nice job.

    also: blaziken should be C or B imo, just because it causes so much problems for stall due to it's high power and dangerous SD set, while offense trips up while handeling the agillity set, though agiliblaze struggles with finding a good fighting STAB due to superpowers attack drop not being able to be restored to +0 or +1 due to no SD and low kick varying so much depending on the pokemon, still whacks the fuck out of heatran and ttar tho. saying this because I saw that mega blaziken avatar of yours rofl

    yeah, not much to say here other than I agree lol, the main thing with nite is dealing with stupid random HP ices making it annoying to pivot into some things you thought you could deal with, that and ttar is a huge dick, still S worthy tho, just more food 4 thought.

    srsly people make posts that I can at least debate, these posts are too good :C, Quag is def C yeah, S star has been said as a S and yeah hippo is moving down, poor guy didn't have a long stay up there in S,



    Anyway, that about wraps it up for this reply to the current rank change proposals, now I'm going go update the OP and the log of rank changes, this has been fun, lets keep this goin guys

    ~~ Oia [​IMG]
  11. JackieChun

    JackieChun

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    BKC : you have spoken :P. Weaknesses against common attacking types that powerful Scarfers carry(Pursuit, U-turn) don't help it's cause either. Also, any fast U-turner can force Celebi out.

    On Weavile: It's stronger and faster than almost all of DPP OU, but Weavile's biggest issue is it's typing. It really comes into play against any team that uses hazards. LO Weavile dies even faster than LO Infernape thanks to the SR weak and has no recovery whatsoever. It's dangerous if it can get a SD, but things like Gyarados, Skarmory, and any Mach Puncher outside of Breloom (read: Infernape, hell even Hitmontop) put a stop to it. It's C Rank and no better, IMO.
  12. Jcpdragonx

    Jcpdragonx

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    For S Rank, I would have Starmie, Tyranitar + 3 of Heatran, Rotom-H, Zapdos and Jirachi.

    LO Starmie Hydro pump is ridiculous, far and away the best spinner in the tier.
    Tyranitar, especially the scarf variant is a great answer to many threats who are generally a major pain in the ass like Starmie, Gengar, Adamant DD Dragonite/Gyrados and sometimes Celebi and Zapdos.

    Not too sure about the others, I always thought Dragonite was behind Flygon as the number 1 Dragon.
  13. Punchshroom

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    lol Starmie at both A and S.
  14. PttP

    PttP I'M THE JETSONS YOU THE FLINTSTONES
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    Does anyone else seriously not see the problem with Jolteon being A-rank while Scizor being B-rank?

    I mean honestly it's cool and all if you think Scizor is overrated and overused or some shit but c'mon Scizor is still amazing.

    edit: Zapdos for S-rank is also laughable

    lol.
  15. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    Yeah I'm no DP whiz and I personally don't like using it when I do try DPP, but it seems weird that the Pokemon that was once #1 in overall usage in the ol' Latias/Mence days, the one thing Smogon ninjas were breaking into people's houses to force them to use, is now B rank in a viability ranking list.
  16. OiawesomeDG

    OiawesomeDG

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    LOL SO MUCH FOR EDITING AT LIKE 10:30 PM
  17. ShootingStarmie

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    Scizor is not B rank. Come on, Scizor is pretty incredible. The Banded set scouts for physical walls really nicely, while the Swords Dance set is a pretty great sweeper. Scizor is the one of the main reasons why Heatran, Rotom-H, and Zapdos are S rank (because they counter Scizor nicely).

    I dunno if I like the idea of Zapdos and Hippowdon being S rank. Zapdos is SR weak and is countered pretty nicely by Heatran, Hippowdon, Rotom-H, and Tyranitar. It just seems like it can't switch into as many threats as it likes, mainly because of the SR weakness ruining it's good bulk. Hippowdon is amazing no doubt, but S rank? Eh, I don't really see it. It provides SR for the team and phazes, while countering some of the top physical sweepers. However, it's pretty easily forced out by special sweepers like Starmie and Suicune, and it just isn't a Pokemon that seems S rank to me.

    Milotic should be C rank. It's severely outclassed by Vaporeon, and there's little reason to use it when there's Suicune, Vaporeon, and Starmie.

    Magnezone should be B rank. Being able to trap Skarmory, Forretress, Jirachi, and Scizor is a huge niche, as it easily opens up holes for a physical sweeper. It can also potentially get past Blissey with Explosion, and has really nice typing.

    By the way, who decides this list?
  18. OiawesomeDG

    OiawesomeDG

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    Rotom-H isn't a thing, It's just overheat rotom-a dude lol, sorry for pestering you about that, it happens to me too.

    Scizor's checks are all amazing pokemon in this meta, heatran, rotom-a, zapdos and gyara and more, while it does get roadblock by some really good pokemon, and the metagame is pretty adapt to dealing with it, I could see myself moving it to A rank after this post.

    Zapdos is versatile and is a blanket switch in into many special attackers (like the aforementioned rotom-a as long as you avoid trick iirc) with it's sdef set, can offensively pressure much teams and in general is a fucking threat, but I could see it moving down because it has problems switching into some of the most well known physical attackers like ttar and CB gon, rotom-a exists as the premier electric type and rotom-a is well, rotom-a, and it struggles to find free turns to roost in most scenarios that and it's blissey fodder.

    Hippo was meant to be moved down, but I forgot last night, thanks for reminding me though lol

    Milotic will be added yeah, never really remembered it even existing in OU till this moment, good nomination


    Magnezone is possibly a B, the main thing is that the metagame is very well adapt to it, things like shed shell forre have "spiked up" in viability just to avoid the trap from magne making magne be iffy as a steel trapper, but it still has a very big shot at B, since it can remove things like non shed shell skarm, forre and scizor (rachi runs uturn and sdef sets avoid the 2HKO from HP fire)

    Also, the person who decides this like is just like "the person who decides the BW Viability Rankings", because well, it's more of a community decision than anything, hence why I am being so lenient on accept proposals for rank changes.

    THough I'd really like to see more talk on these except for A rank Zapdos and Scizor, those will be added soon enough

    ~~ [​IMG]
  19. BKC

    BKC sorrow flew on black wings
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    Jolteon is great, it's dangerous as hell to switch into for offensive/balance teams, and can do other shit like Wish and SubPass. I haven't used Fake Tears but it's probably pretty good against defensive teams especially because it's faster than Scarftar and the occasional Dugtrio. I was probably too hard on Scizor though.
    Not having to use two moveslots for recovery is pretty big. It's not nearly so outclassed that it should be in C.

    Yeah, I suppose.

    damn guess that settles it
  20. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
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    I just really don't see much reason to use it in OU when you have Starmie, Vappy, Suicune, etc. What does it bring to OU that these Pokemon can't do better?
  21. OiawesomeDG

    OiawesomeDG

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    Gargantuate special defense, reliable recovery (starmies the only one to have that, vappy has to waste a turn and a moveslot to make wish "reliable"), and not bad offensive presence tbh, still has enough niche altogether to pull off B rank, not sure though, haven't used it much recently, so there will need to be more input on this before a change is made
  22. PDC

    PDC amg is fucking aids
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    Milotic brings reliable Recovery, pretty great bulk, a rather unique ability which can be very clutch, and overall just being useful. Not much to say, but Milotic is probably one of the best bulky water checks to things like MixNite / Flygon out there.
  23. JackieChun

    JackieChun

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    Magnezone is fine where it's at. It's largely useless if your opponent doesn't have a steel type that Magnezone can safely trap, which happens a bit more often in DPP OU. It's too slow. It doesn't always OHKO Careful Skarmory with Thunderbolt if it's Timid. It needs HP Fire to guarantee the OHKO on Careful Forretress. It can't really trap Heatran or Lucario. Scizor and Jirachi can beat it with prediction using Superpower and Fire Punch respectively. Starmie STILL outspeeds a Choice Scarf Magnezone....yeah, I think it's fine where it's at. It fits the description of a C Rank Pokemon.

    Zapdos is S-Rank because of it's versatility alone. It destroys common FWG cores. It has Roost to mitigate the SR weak. SubRoost is still amazing. Agility LO Dos sweeps most of the metagame. Choice Specs hits extremely hard; SpD Heatran gets 2HKO'd with enough prior damage. Defensive sets are almost a no-brainer switch-in for the once beloved Scizor as well as Grass types and any defensive Water. Hippowdon isn't totally safe due to Toxic unless it's backed by a cleric (it isn't always).

    I don't think we were that harsh on Scizor lol. Maybe if it was 2010 again, I woulda said otherwise, but Scizor hasn't been number #1 for a LONG time. CB is pretty underwhelming IMO. You can find enough stuff in OU that can switch in on it (like defensive Zapdos). A good amount of the current A Rank pokes have some way of beating it or they just straight up wall it. SD is honestly it's best set now and is (or should be) the only reason there is any case for Scizor being an A Rank poke, but again, there are too many A/S Rank pokes that either wall it and phaze it out or can take a resisted Bullet Punch and hit it back hard or OHKO it. It doesn't sweep a significant portion of the meta from what I'm seeing.
  24. PttP

    PttP I'M THE JETSONS YOU THE FLINTSTONES
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    Jolteon is essentially the definition of a B-tier Pokemon. It has its niche, which is its insane speed which allows it to do stuff like check Gyarados and ensure it gets hits off, but that niche doesn't overcome the fact that it had pitiful bulk and doesn't have enough power to offset that bulk. A Pokemon like Infernape can be A-tier despite its bulk because it has the power to sweep teams with amazing coverage and unpredictability. On the other hand, Jolteon has fairly poor coverage and isn't an overwhelming Pokemon to handle. Not to mention the fact that the Specs set becomes something of a liability once you face anyone with a Hippodown or Blissey, and the Expert Belt set is weaker than Eo's dick. It can do other shit like Wish and SubPass?? Umm ok, but more likely than not it's not going to be running Wish because honestly it doesn't have the time for Wish. SubPass is a pretty decent set, but again, not A-tier material.

    Having Roost to mitigate a SR weakness does not mean the SR weakness isn't there. Zapdos is a very good Pokemon, but once again, not S-tier. I'm comparing this list to the BW OU viability list and a major concern is that this list seems too willing to rank anything good as S-rank. If the BW list was using the same criteria as this list Latias would be S-rank in that one. "Latias is S-Rank because of it's versatility. It destroys the sun and rain. LO attacker is a force and CM Sub can sweep. It can also support its team with Wish, etc etc." Let's be real here, Choice Specs Zapdos is only used as a lead, and I think the metagame has adjusted for it to the point where it isn't as strong as it once was, like what happened to lead Machamp. Agility LO Zapdos is good, but I wouldn't exactly say it sweeps a majority of the metagame considering the fact that Tyranitar hard stops it, while Rotom and Heatran beat it with SR + LO recoil. Agility Zapdos doesn't have the same payoff that other SR weak Pokemon like Salamence or Dragonite did to make it worth while 90% of the time (which is what I think a S-rank Pokemon should do.) SubRoost Zapdos takes some of the most team support in the game which is does not describe a S-rank Pokemon.

    I don't know where to get usage stats, but I'm pretty sure Scizor is still top 5 because you're making it out to be like it fell off the face of the planet. CB Scizor will never be underwhelming as long as it has Bullet Punch and U-turn because of how useful the moves are. Even if you do find enough stuff to switch into it (which you don't), it just uses U-turn which stacks up a ton of damage. Not to mention the fact that high-powered priority is always useful, and the fact that Scizor has such a great typing also adds to that. It is also very good at Pursuit trapping stuff life Gengar and Starmie. If you can honestly justify Jolteon being a higher rank than Scizor then I straight up just question your way of thinking.
  25. BKC

    BKC sorrow flew on black wings
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    Nah I don't like specs. I think life orb is better 99% of the time, but I think we disagree on how threatening it is, I find it to be absolutely terrifying against some teams and that's partly what makes me think it's worthy of A rank. It actually makes very good use of wish / subpass, but I digress. I think it's good enough for A however I suppose it wouldn't kill anyone to drop it to B.

    The max satk tbolt / heat wave / hp ice / roost @ lefties set is the best one right now imo, it's what really pushes it up there for me.

    I know this has nothing to do with how good scizor is but if I had to guess the most common pkmn right now, the top 5 would probably be heatran / ttar / jirachi / starmie / rotom. Anyways there was a point where bulky sd sciz was really good at sweeping shit but it isn't as efficient anymore, I think scarf is probably its best set atm and while it's killer at times it just completely falters against some teams. CB isn't bad I guess but I just don't like it too much. It's a toss up for me, I think sciz is B material but wouldn't mind it in A too much.

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