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Genesect (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Lee, Oct 1, 2010.

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  1. Lee

    Lee @ Thick Club
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    [​IMG]



    --------------------------------------------

    [Overview]​

    • 120 Base Atk and SpA paired with Download and excellent coverage make for an insanely powerful and unpredictable sweeper.
    • Bug/Steel typing grants 9 resistances and an immunity which include an immunity to Sandstorm, Poison and useful resistances to most forms of priority.
    • Flaws: 99 base speed means he just misses out on the hotly contested 100 base speed tier. A poor physical movepool makes it difficult for him to fully take advantage of his huge Atk stat and, by extension, any Atk boosts he may acquire through Download.
    [SET]​





    name: Rock Polish

    move 1: Rock Polish
    move 2: Bug Buzz
    move 3: Flamethrower
    move 4: Thunderbolt / Thunder
    item: Life Orb
    evs: 72 HP / 252 SpA / 184 Spe
    nature: Timid​

    Set Comments

    • After a Download boost and a Rock Polish, Genosect's SpA and Speed skyrocket to 508 and 616 respectively.
    • Plethora of resistances present Genosect with many opportunites to set up.
    • Bug Buzz provides a powerful and reliable STAB move that deals fatal damage to the likes of Mewtwo and Latias while Flamethrower deals with the ever-present Steel types and OHKOs offensive Groudon in the Sun. Thunderbolt rounds off the coverage by giving you a solid neutral hit on Fire types and dealing better damage to bulky waters (especially Gyarados who resists your other two attacks).
    • With 616 Speed after a Rock Polish, Genosect outruns even Jolly Sand Throw Doryuuzu and + nature 130 Base Speed Pokemon holding a Choice Scarf and his Bug/Steel typing protects him from Extremespeed, Bullet Punch, Ice Shard and many other forms of priority.
    Additional Comments





    • 184 Speed EVs allow Genosect to outrun Jolly Lucario before a Rock Polish and Jolly Sand Throw Doryuuzu afterwards.
    • 64 HP EVs give a bit of durability whilst minimising Life Orb recoil and the remaining EVs are put into SpD to ensure that any opposing Genosect receive an Atk boost instead of a SpA boost by switching into you.
    • Thunder can be used in place of Thunderbolt if Genosect is being used on the same team as Kyogre.
    Teammates and Counters



    • As with all sweepers, Stealth Rock is essential for turning certain 2HKOs into OHKOs.
    • Kyogre and Drizzle allow Genosect to use Thunder in place of Thunderbolt, whilst also reducing damage taken by Fire attacks.
    • Removing Blissey is vital to Genosect's success so a Pursuit user such as Tyranitar will be useful in this regard.
    • In order to gain the SpA boost from Download, Genosect needs to switch into Pokemon whose Defense is higher than (or equal to) their Special Defense so be sure to pack a few physical attackers to lure out the likes of Skarmory, Gliscor and Groudon.
    • Like the vast majority of special sweepers, Genosect is walled by Blissey. She can paralyse Genosect with Thunder Wave before beating him down with Seismic Toss or Flamethrower.
    • Heatran 4x resists Bug Buzz, gains a Flash Fire boost from Flamethrower and can effortlessly OHKO Genosect with his powerful Fire attacks.
    • Rotom-H resists every move on the set and can OHKO with Overheat.
    [SET]


    name: Choice Scarf​

    move 1: Bug Buzz
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Flamethrower
    move 4: U-turn / Thunderbolt / Thunder
    item: Choice Scarf
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    nature: Naive / Timid​

    Set Comments

    • Choice Scarf patches up Genosect's average Speed allowing him to become an efficient revenge killer and late game cleaner.
    • Ice Beam and Extremespeed resistance allows Choice Scarf Genosect to revenge kill Jolly Dragon Dance Rayquaza whilst also granting Genosect the rare ability to guarantee a revenge kill on Swords Dance Garchomp. Since Download will always raise SpA against Garchomp, the boost ensures that Ice Beam OHKOs in spite of Yache Berry.
    • Flamethrower reliably revenge kills Lucario and Agility Metagross and is your best bet against Doryuuzu.
    • U-turn allows Genosect to scout and weaken his counters, as well as putting any Atk boosts acquired through Download to good use. However, Thunderbolt or Thunder can also be used if you're worried about Kyogre or Heatran.
    Additional Comments

    • A + Speed nature is reccomended to allow Choice Scarf Genosect to outrun Jolly Dragon Dance Rayquaza, Agility Metagross, and Choice Scarf Kyogre amongst others.
    • Naive is reccomended over Hasty to preserve Genosect's Defense stat; it will often be called upon to take the occassional boosted physical attack in his revenge-killing duties (Rayquaza's Extremespeed, Scizor's Bullet Punch and Dragon Dance Salamence's Outrage for example).
    Teammates and Counters





    • U-turn is made a lot more dangerous when it is backed up by entry hazards such as Stealth Rock and Spikes.
    • A Flash Fire Pokemon such as Heatran can take advantage of Fire attacks aimed at Genosect. He can also set up Stealth Rock and take out Blissey with Explosion if either of those roles take your fancy.
    • Frail Pokemon such as Kojondo or Infernape will appreciate the free switches granted by U-turn and will take advantage of any Blissey switch ins. They can also use U-turn themselves to keep pressure on the opponent
    • Choice Scarf Genosect is difficult to counter on account of U-turn. The Pokemon whom one might usually use to absorb a U-turn need to be cautious of switching in for fear of the other attacks on the set whereas a Pokemon such as Blissey who would look to switch in on the special attacks will not like being hit with a Download boosted U-turn and being immediately met by a counter.
    • Unless Genosect has Thunderbolt, Heatran resists every attack on the set and can OHKO Genosect with STAB Fire attacks.
    • If locked into anything other than Flamethrower or U-turn, Magnezone can trap Genosect with Magnet Pull and KO him with Thunderbolt or Hidden Power Fire.
    • Terakion doesn't take too much damage from any of the moves on the set and can retaliate with powerful physical attacks.
    [SET]​





    name: Choice Specs​

    move 1: Bug Buzz
    move 2: Flamethrower
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Thunderbolt / Thunder​
    item: Choice Specs
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    nature: Timid

    Set Comments

    • After a Download boost, Choice Specs Genosect reaches a terrifying 762 SpA.
    • The listed attacks hit 11/17 types for super-effective damage.
    • Download boosted Bug Buzz deals up to 40% to 252/0 Blissey.
    • Good typing provides lots of opportunities to switch in.
    Teammates and Counters

    • Paralysis support will aid Genosect in securing a late game sweep.
    • A powerful late game sweeper such as Lucario will benefit from the holes that Choice Specs Genosect can blast into the opponents team. Lucario can also capitalise on any Blisseys attempting to counter Genosect.
    • Blissey can't wall this as effortlessly as most other special attackers but she is still a solid counter.
    • A 252/252 Calm Heatran easily switches into Bug Buzz, Flamethrower and Ice Beam and is never 2HKO'd by Download boosted Thunderbolt after factoring in Stealth Rock and Leftovers.
    • Choice Specs Genosect packs such immense power and coverage that the best counter is good prediction.
    [SET]



    name: Life Orb​


    move 1: Ice Beam
    move 2: Flamethrower
    move 3: Thunderbolt / Thunder
    move 4: U-turn / Explosion
    item: Life Orb
    evs: 64 Atk / 192 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Naive​

    Set Comments

    • With the given EVs, a Download boosted Life Orb U-turn has an almost identical damage output to Adamant Choice Band Scizor's U-turn.
    • In the 4th Gen, players relied on the likes of Salamence, Gyarados, Gliscor, and Skarmory to switch into Choice Band Scizor's U-turn. However, they need to be extremely cautious when switching into Genosect as they can all be OHKO'd by Flamethrower, Thunderbolt or Ice Beam.
    • Download boosted U-turn deals an average of 50% to 252/252 Bold Blissey.
    • Explosion can be used in the last slot. Download boosted Life Orb Explosion is truly a sight to behold, easily OHKOing offensive Heatran after Stealth Rock.
    Teammates and Counters



    • Since this Genosect is so good at luring out and destroying Blissey, it would be wise to team it up with a special sweeper who can take advantage of Blissey's removal. Good examples are Heatran, Sazandora, Urugamosu, Kerudio, Gengar and Zapdos.
    • If you're using U-turn, Life Orb recoil and Stealth Rock damage will rack up quite quickly so Wish support would be ideal.
    • Heatran only fears Download boosted Thunderbolt, but he won't like Explosion or a U-turn straight to a counter very much either.
    • Swampert resists Flamethrower and is immune to Thunderbolt but needs to be careful around Download boosted Ice Beams and U-turns.
    [Team Options]​



    • Stealth Rock is essential, especially on the U-turn sets.
    • Kyogre assists Genosect as it's Drizzle ability allows Genosect to use Thunder in place of Thunderbolt. Rain also reduces Genosect's 4x Fire weak down to 2x.
    • Genosect only has one weakness which can easily be covered through offensive Pokemon such as Heatran or Kyogre or through defensive Pokemon such as Suicune or Groudon.
    • If using the Rock Polish or Choice Scarf sets it's important to have a reliable Blissey lure/counter such as Tyranitar.
    [Optional Changes]​



    • Genosect can be used in the lead position with a Modest nature and a moveset of Bug Buzz/Flamethrower/Ice Beam/Quick Attack @ Focus Sash. If the opposing lead insists on getting Stealth Rock up, then they may find themselves 6-5 down against a Genosect with his Focus Sash intact.
    • A Substitute + 3 attacks set @ Expert Belt Leftovers can be used to block status and ease prediction.
    [Dream World]​



    • Genosect does not receive a Dream World ability.
  2. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
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    Please include a sprite, add a link to a Pokedex page for Genosect, use the proper [Counters] and [Team Options] tags, add an [Optional Changes] section, and a [Dream World] section for discussing his DW ability, if he has one. If he doesn't have a DW ability, simply say that in the [Dream World] section.

    Thanks!

    EDIT: I noticed more issues. Your post really doesn't adhere to the correct format that C&C asked you to use in the announcement. If you're still a bit confused, you can refer to my example of Doryuuzu here. Also, you seem to have not really used bullet points at all. Bullet points should be concise and matter-of-fact, not extended paragraphs with a bullet in front of them! You should avoid using more than 1-2 sentences max per bullet.

    If you have any questions, let me know!
  3. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    My two cents

    Timid is IMO by far the superior choice to Modest on the Rock Polish set. Not only does it let you outrun Sazandora initially, it also helps Genosect not get revenge killed by Doryuuzu in sandstorm. I would also split up Choice Specs and Choice Scarf, while putting more emphasis on U-turn for the latter. I've used Scarf Genosect for quite a while now and it's pretty good due to its insane coverage and the ability to leave dents all over the place with (Download boosted) STAB U-turns.
  4. Lee

    Lee @ Thick Club
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    @ Rising Dusk. I've made the changes you initially asked for.

    I'm not sure what you're trying to show me with your Doryuuzu analysis...your Swords Dance Doryuuzu analysis has close to twice the characters of my Rock Polish Genosect analysis. I accept that I have stumbled over in the AC of the Rock Polish and Scarf sets but I feel the information I have provided there is important to the user. I have split them down into fewer bulletpoints but I've removed very little actual content. The dictionary definition of concise is 'brief, yet including all important information' and I feel I've met that criteria. If it's still not good enough (and you're not too busy) I would ask that you do me a favor and trim any fat that is bothering you as I can't see it myself. You have my permission. Thanks.

    @ Jibaku

    Thanks. I agree about splitting the Scarf and Specs section, it felt kinda clumsy. I'll also add Timid as an option on the RP set and explain why one should use it over Modest. I suppose it really depends on how common Doryuuzu is
  5. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
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    It's not about character count, it's about making concise points. It looks good now, but before you had ~5 lines of text on one bullet. That's the only point I was making. Sorry for any confusion!
  6. Lee

    Lee @ Thick Club
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    Okay, this is done now.

    I've taken Jibaku's suggestion of adding Timid on the RP set and splitting the Choice set into Scarf and Specs. I realise Jibaku was probably hoping for Timid to get a bit more credit but I think that's as much as it deserves until the official analysis goes up. The only real reason to do it is to outrun Jolly Doryuuzu who might not even be that popular anyway (Adamant Doryuuzu is already hitting 550 Spe and outrunning Timid Choice Scarf Starmie, I'm sure most people will be happy with that). Outrunning Timid Sazandora is nice but it seems as though most will be either Scarfed (and therefore faster anyway) or Specs'd (and therefore probably locked into a Dragon attack by the time Genosect comes in). The power loss from Modest to Timid is also quite significant (558 to 508) and has a few notable hiccups such as:

    Modest Download Life Orb Bug Buzz vs 4/0 Garchomp - 94% - 111% (guaranteed OHKO with Stealth Rock, 67% chance to OHKO without)

    Timid Download Life Orb Bug Buzz vs 4/0 Garchomp - 86% - 102% (54% chance to OHKO with Stealth Rock, 15% chance to OHKO without)

    Modest Download Life Orb Thunderbolt vs 4/0 Salamence - 75% - 89% (guaranteed OHKO with Stealth Rock)

    Timid Download Life Orb Thunderbolt vs 4/0 Salamence - 68% - 81% (46% chance to OHKO with Stealth Rock)
  7. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
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    Alright, looks awesome. I fixed some spacing issues in the OP and converted it to use actual bulleted lists, but left all content alone. Marking this as meeting all rules now. Good job!
  8. Theorymon

    Theorymon You have a fever. I prescribe more dead angels.
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    I think this analysis needs to have some significant changes, mostly because its not following the rules of this forum. We are supposed to assume that nothing but the other event Pokemon are banned, but I see nothing here that mentions Pokemon such as Kyogre and Groudon. Im not saying to delete everything you wrote, but put it aside until we have a more concrete banlist.
  9. Lee

    Lee @ Thick Club
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    Sure thing, will be easy enough to throw in a few mentions of the 600+BST'ers. Genosect has just the right coverage to deal with most of them. Bug Buzz for Mewtwo and the Latis, Thunderbolt for Kyogre, Ho-oh and Lugia and (without having ran any calcs) I assume Download Sun boosted Flamethrower will KO offensive Groudon. Will also slash Thunder in with Thunderbolt and mention how he generally enjoys Drizzle for halving his only weakness. Thanks.

    ok, here's what I've changed:

    RP set - mentioned Mewtwo and Latias as targets for Bug Buzz, mentioned that offensive Groudon is OHKO'd (fun fact: 252/0 Groudon is OHKO'd 41% of the time after SR), reworked EVs to outrun Choice Scarf Darkrai (should I just say fuck it and go 252/4/252 to outrun Timid Scarf Mewtwo...do people use that?), slashed in Thunder and added Kyogre to teammates section. Changed mention of Swampert to Groudon.

    Choice Scarf - changed mentions of Ononokusu to Rayquaza and mentioned how Extremespeed resistance helps him out in that regard. Changed Choice Scarf Sazandora to Choice Scarf Kyogre. Slashed in Thunder.

    Choice Specs - slashed in Thunder

    Life Orb - slashed in Thunder

    Team options - mentioned Kyogre, changed Swampert to Groudon.
  10. HD

    HD

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    This is a minor thing, but in the Additional Comments Section for the RP Set, you mention 64 HP EVs instead of the 72 EVs mentioned in the EVs of the set. You also mention SpD EVs, but there aren't any.
  11. Lee

    Lee @ Thick Club
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    Ah, must have been leftover from when I changed the nature and EV spread. I'll fix it when I'm next at a computer. Thanks.
  12. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
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    You mentioned LO Explosion OHKOing offensive Heatran after a Download boost, but
    I wouldn't even mention Explosion as an option tbh.
  13. minybob7

    minybob7

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    i think you should add ice beam in place of flamethrower because it:
    1.does the boltbeam combo
    2.is SE against the lots of dragon in ubers
    3.works better than flamethrower in the rain
  14. PYRO BEATBOX

    PYRO BEATBOX

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    What about simple beam changing his type to simple...double team/claw sharpen/rock polish anyone?

    Zap Cannon would love claw sharpen and a sub set would allow him setup ability.
    Charge Beam could also find a place on the "Simplesect".
  15. ~Isaac~

    ~Isaac~

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    you cant use simple beam on yourself, so it would only work in double or triples
  16. gameman87

    gameman87

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    I'm honestly surprised this analysis doesn't mention Reshiram as a counter. It resists every move mentioned in this analysis except Ice Beam and can KO back. It can use Genosect as nitro charge setup.
  17. Sphyxius

    Sphyxius

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    Probably because a lot of sets carry U-turn, and Genesect is faster than Reshiram. Against non-U-turn sets yeah, but against those with it Genesect can simply U-turn to something faster that resists Fire (assuming a predicted Nitro Charge) that has a Rock/Ground/Dragon move. Said pokemon would have to be scarfed assuming Nitro Charge connects.
  18. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
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    I am locking this because this Pokemon is not released yet. When it is, I will unlock it again.
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