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Genesect (QC 3/3) (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by PK Gaming, Aug 12, 2012.

  1. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,148
    #99

    It's time...

    [​IMG]

    <[Overview]

    <p>The strongest of hunters finally makes its debut in OU, and it's nothing short of metagame defining, to say the least. It has every advantage you could possibly ask for&mdash; strong offensive stats, incredible move coverage, fantastic typing, and a killer ability. As a Choice Scarf user, Genesect is second to none, as its wide coverage lets it revenge kill practically every single Pokemon in OU. Genesect also has access to one of the fastest STAB U-turn in the tier, which ensures that you're almost always capable of keeping the offensive momentum. Download super charges one of its two offensive stats, which can result in either a boosted U-turn or a boosted coverage move, both of which can deal major damage in the right circumstance. Genesect can easily force switches, and by doing so, cause any ground gained from your opponent via a switch to be lost in a counterattack if U-turn is used. If U-turn is not used, Genesect has a very high chance of OHKOing any given target with the correct coverage move, especially if the appropriate Download boost is acquired. In other words, Genesect is capable of creating 50-50 scenarios all on its own! It's also capable of running an assortment of other sets, each just as dangerous as the Choice Scarf set. All of this comes together to produce a Pokemon that is virtually impossible to outright counter, and extremely easy to fit on almost any team. Fortunately, Genesect isn't completely invincible; finding out what set it is currently using is imperative in dealing with it, as each set has its own strengths and limitations. Investing in entry hazards is also important, as Genesect constantly switches, and the continual damage can easily build up. Regardless, you should not underestimate this monster of a Pokemon. You do not have the luxury.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: U-turn
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Flamethrower / Bug Buzz
    move 4: Thunderbolt / Bug Buzz
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Download
    nature: Naive / Hasty
    evs: 8 Atk / 248 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>If you're looking for the ultimate Choice Scarf user, then look no further&mdash; Genesect is the undisputed best offensive Choice Scarf user in the game by a very large margin. It has a special combination of unparalleled move coverage and a lightning-fast U-turn, with just enough Speed to outspeed almost everything in OU. "To U-turn,or not to U-turn" is a question you'll often be asking yourself. U-turn is the most important move on this set, and is the move you'll be using for the majority of the time. U-turn lets Genesect scout your opponent's moves, pick off weakened threats, and for the most part keep up the offensive momentum on your side. Since Genesect is capable of practically OHKOing almost every single Pokemon in OU, your opponent is likely to switch out, which is where U-turn shines. Genesect is infamous for creating 50-50 scenarios in which your opponent is forced to play the guessing game. Ice Beam is a versatile coverage move, and is prized for its ability to destroy Dragon-types, especially after a Special Attack boost. Flamethrower ensures that Steel-types, such as Jirachi, Forretress, and Ferrothorn, don't stand a chance against Genesect either. Finally, Thunderbolt is used for damaging Water-types, such as Keldeo and Jellicent, or Pokemon that are unfazed by Genesect's other moves. Between Genesect's coverage moves and U-turn, practically every single Pokemon in OU is taken into account.</p>

    <p>Bug Buzz is a worthy replacement for either Flamethrower or Thunderbolt, as it's an absurdly powerful STAB move that is difficult to switch into, especially after a Special Attack boost, though its use over Flamethrower or Thunderbolt really depends on your team and the threats you want to cover. It's obligatory on rain teams, as rain renders Flamethrower nearly useless. The key thing about Bug Buzz is that most Pokemon who resist Bug-type moves in OU are either too frail to reliably switch into it, or prioritize Defense over Special Defense. You'll rarely find the need to predict when using Bug Buzz, since it hits everything reasonably hard, Pokemon with resistances included. A thing to consider is that, with the exceptions of Heatran, Infernape, Terrakion, and Skarmory, nothing is capable of sponging U-turn AND Bug Buzz at the same time, so play around this and punish opponents who expect the obvious U-turn.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Genesect's Speed and Special Attack EVs are maximized, and a Naive nature is used over Timid in order to keep U-turn's power intact. Note that 4 EVs are taken from Special Attack and placed into Attack&mdash; the reason for this is that, with 8 Attack EVs, Genesect picks up an extra point in Attack after a Download boost, but doesn't lose any points from the same in Special Attack. The choice between Naive or Hasty is entirely up to you; the former lets you handle Outrage from Dragon-types and Mach Punch from the likes of Breloom a little bit better, while the latter gives you an easier time sponging Draco Meteors from Latios, Latias, and Hydreigon. If you have absolutely no intention of Speed tying with opposing Genesect, you can opt to use a spread of 64 Atk / 252 SpA / 192 Spe. This gives Genesect's U-turns more punch,while still allowing it to outspeed everything in OU below positive-natured +1 Hydreigon and Haxorus. A Timid nature can be used to prevent lowering either of Genesect's defenses, but this comes at the price of making U-turn noticeably weaker.</p>

    <p>Hidden Power Ground can be used over any of Genesect's coverage moves for the express purpose of one-upping Heatran. It's generally an inferior move option, and you're better off using Dugtrio as a partner to trap Heatran after a U-turn. Thunder can be used over Thunderbolt on rain teams, and the added Base Power makes Genesect a much more potent threat, but keep in mind Thunder has its effectiveness lowered against sandstorm and sun teams. Iron Head or Flash Cannon could be used over a coverage move to smack Terrakion and Kyurem-B. Speaking of which, you can opt to use a Choice Scarf set with a physical spread with the addition of Iron Head and/or Explosion. A physically orientated Choice Scarf Genesect is still capable of checking the majority of OU with its coverage moves, with the added advantages of super powerful U-turns, a usable Iron Head, and a powerful Explosion, but lacks the tremendous super effective coverage and utility of its special counterpart.</p>

    <p>As Genesect is the king of forcing switches, it should come as no surprise to learn that Genesect appreciates the presence of entry hazards. Deoxys-D is the perfect Spikes user on offensive teams. Forretress, Ferrothorn, and Skarmory are excellent hazard users on more balanced teams, though they all share Genesect's weakness to Fire-type moves. Despite being neutral to Stealth Rock, Genesect absolutely loathes having entry hazards of any kind on its side of the field. This is because Genesect makes multiple switches in any given every match due to the nature of U-turn. Pairing Genesect with a Rapid Spin user is recommended; Starmie, Tentacruel, and Forretress are all acceptable choices. Forretress has the privilege of having access to Rapid Spin, entry hazards, and to top it all off, Volt Switch, which pairs up nicely with Genesect's U-turn.</p>

    <p>You don't need to go out of your way to look for Pokemon that pair up with Genesect; it synergizes with practically every Pokemon in existence and it's easy to fit it into almost any team, as it usually pulls its own weight. Out of all the potential partner candidates in OU, nothing compares to Dugtrio. Genesect and Dugtrio are nearly unstoppable together, as Dugtrio is capable of trapping the closest thing to a "counter" for Genesect: Heatran. Genesect has no problem luring Heatran out and switching directly into Dugtrio without losing momentum via U-turn. If executed correctly,the Genesect + Dugtrio combo can sometimes put your opponent in a catch-22 situation. If they switch into Heatran to counter Genesect, then Genesect can U-turn into Dugtrio to trap and kill it. If your opponent refuses to switch Heatran into Genesect, there's always the chance that Genesect might net a KO on any given Pokemon. It's a formidable combination that is only bypassed by Shed Shell Heatran, so keep that in mind if someone decides to directly switch Heatran into Genesect, as they will not fear being trapped by your Dugtrio. Genesect pairs up well with Volt Switch users, as together they form the feared Volt-Turn combo that is notorious for being difficult to deal with. Volt Switch partners include Rotom-W, Magnezone, Forretress, Thundurus-T, and Zapdos.</p>

    <p>Choice Scarf Genesect is a lot of things&mdash; fast, powerful, difficult to deal with, effective, and game-defining. It's a rather easy Pokemon to use, and as such you should expect to see Genesect make a big play in any given match. If you want to use Genesect effectively, you should shy away from being one-dimensional. While there's no harm in spamming U-turn, Genesect is a lot more effective if it KOs or seriously injures one of its checks with a coverage move. While it's often a lot safer to just U-turn, consider using a coverage move to damage one of Genesect's primary switch-ins to the point where they can't switch into U-turn anymore. Once Genesect's checks are weakened, very little can stop Genesect from sweeping, especially if it's picked up a Special Attack boost.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Rock Polish
    move 1: Rock Polish
    move 2: Bug Buzz / Flamethrower
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Thunderbolt / Giga Drain / Flamethrower
    item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
    ability: Download
    nature: Modest / Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Genesect takes on more of a sweeping role when using Rock Polish; between its high Special Attack and insane coverage, it should have no problem cleaving through most teams when given the chance. Genesect's typing grants a resistance to nearly every single commonly used priority move in OU, and it has no problem setting up a Rock Polish due to its downright supernatural ability to force switches. After a Rock Polish, Genesect outspeeds close to everything in OU, including most Swift Swim / Chlorophyll users in their respective weathers of choice. Ideally, you'll want to wait until the opponent's team has been sufficiently weakened before attempting to sweep. Most teams crumble in the face of Genesect's awesome coverage&mdash; nothing is walling the combination of Ice Beam, Bug Buzz, and Thunderbolt, short of dedicated special walls or Heatran, so you'll want them removed before using Rock Polish.</p>

    <p>If the combination of Bug Buzz, Ice Beam, and Thunderbolt does not appeal to you, never fear, for Genesect has plenty of other options to fit your purposes. Giga Drain destroys Terrakion, Specially Defensive Rotom-W, and Gastrodon, while also maintaining coverage against most of the Pokemon that are weak to Thunderbolt. Flamethrower can be used to roast Steel-types, but as this set excels in rain, and most Steel-types are 2HKOed by Bug Buzz or a coverage move, it ends up being a situational move option. You should strive to take Download into account, as after a Special Attack boost and a Rock Polish, Genesect is basically set to sweep through teams. It's impossible to consistently choose what Download boost Genesect receives,as it's generally dependent on your opponent, but you should try to set up on Pokemon that typically grant Special Attack boosts, if you can.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Expert Belt can be used in place of Life Orb to bluff a Choice Scarf; you can use Genesect as a pseudo-Choice Scarf user and set up a Rock Polish at the right opportunity. The choice between using a Modest or Timid nature comes down to whether you want power or the ability to outspeed non-Choice Scarf Genesect and max Speed Rotom-W. An EV spread consisting of 136 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 116 Spe with a Modest nature lets Genesect outspeed every conceivable threat in OU with a hefty boost in bulk. Unfortunately, the drop in Speed makes Genesect rather slow without a Rock Polish boost, so make sure to keep that in mind if you plan on using that spread. Thunder is a valid option on rain teams, and as this set excels in rain it is definitely one of Genesect's better move options on those teams. Hidden Power Ground lets you bypass Heatran, though unless you have a burning hatred towards Heatran, it's not worth giving up any of Genesect's superior coverage moves.</p>

    <p>Focus Sash might seem like a gimmicky option, but Genesect is capable of putting it to good use, as a Genesect that is guaranteed to survive a hit is pretty dangerous. It also allows Genesect to bluff a Choice Scarf. Rock Polish Genesect loves having entry hazards, as it makes scoring OHKOs significantly easier. It should come to no surprise that Deoxys-D is the perfect partner, as it's almost guaranteed to lay down entry hazards quickly and reliably. Just think about how much more likely those OHKOs will be when every opposing Pokemon operates at 70-80% instead of at 100%. Rock Polish Genesect also appreciates having Pokemon that can weaken walls or teams in general, as it will then have an easier time sweeping late-game. Pokemon such as Choice Band Terrakion and Choice Specs Latios are great examples of Pokemon that are capable of easily wearing down walls with very little prediction on the user's part. This set requires a bit of planning in order for it to work; busting it out early-game is the wrong way to use it, as a healthy Rock Polish Genesect is extremely dangerous, but not if it can't OHKO its targets. A properly utilized Rock Polish Genesect is capable of placing your opponent into checkmate.</p>

    [SET]
    name: All-out Attacker
    move 1: U-turn
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Flamethrower
    move 4: Thunderbolt / Bug Buzz
    item: Expert Belt / Focus Sash
    ability: Download
    nature: Naive / Hasty
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set forgoes the Speed and revenge killing ability available to the Choice Scarf set and literally turns Genesect into a killing machine. Little can stand in Genesect's way, as its incredible coverage and access to U-turn makes it extremely hard for opponents to endure its offensive onslaught. Unlike the Choice Scarf set, there's no overwhelming need to use U-turn immediately, as the point of this set is to get in and cause as much damage as possible. Between Ice Beam, Flamethrower, and Thunderbolt, it's pretty much impossible to outright wall Genesect without resorting to dedicated special walls, which is where U-turn comes into play. U-turn counteracts your opponent's attempts to switch in a Pokemon that can sponge Genesect's Special Attacks, such as Heatran or Blissey. You don't even necessarily have to predict their switch; you're free to use any attack and then U-turn out to get some free damage and momentum. Like with Choice Scarf, Bug Buzz can be used over Thunderbolt as a powerful Special Attack. Bug Buzz is ridiculously strong, and it meshes well with Flamethrower, as none of the common Pokemon who resist Bug-type attacks, outside of Heatran, like taking Flamethrower. This set arguably makes the most use out of Download out of all of Genesect's sets, as it has the benefit of being able to switch moves. The biggest attraction to this set, however, is its ability to bluff a Choice Scarf set. Your opponent has no idea what kind of Genesect you're using when they see it in Team Preview,and because Choice Scarf is ridiculously common on Genesect, you're near guaranteed to pull off a bluff at least once in a given match. Capitalize on this when your opponent decides to bring in something that might attempt to set up on Genesect's coverage moves and punish them accordingly.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Expert Belt is the item of choice on this set, but Focus Sash is arguably just as effective. If you're good at keeping entry hazards off your side of the field in the early-game, then Focus Sash can prove to be more useful for you, as it also allows Genesect to bluff a Choice Scarf and provides Genesect with the crucial ability to endure any single attack. It also gives it a leg up against opposing Genesect, which can come in handy in lead match-ups. Life Orb can be used to power up Genesect's attacks, but it's mostly detrimental to Genesect, as it does not need that boost in power, and Life Orb immediately reveals to the your opponent that you aren't using a Choice item. There's no reason to deviate from the listed nature and EVs; non-Choice Scarf Genesect is slow as is, and choosing a Special Attack boosting nature is a pointless expenditure, as Genesect doesn't really need Special Attack on this set. If you're set on using a Special Attack boosting nature, bear in mind that opposing Timid Rotom-W, Jolly Haxorus, and Hydreigon can outspeed Genesect now.</p>

    <p>Substitute turns Genesect into an even deadlier attacker that has the distinction of being ridiculously difficult to remove; you'll be hard pressed to find a team that can remove a Genesect from behind a Substitute without at least losing one Pokemon or having a Pokemon badly weakened, especially if Genesect has received a Special Attack boost from Download. It gets even better though, as Genesect can easily set up Substitutes due to its ability to bluff a Choice Scarf set, and thus force switches. Hidden Power Ground can go over any of Genesect's coverage moves to better deal with Heatran, but this comes at the cost of significant killing ability and general usefulness. A physically orientated moveset with attacks such as Iron Head, Zen Headbutt, or Explosion is certainly viable; U-turn receives a moderate boost in power, and Iron Head and Zen Headbutt are viable move choices that can target Pokemon like Terrakion and Tentacruel, while still being able to cause general mayhem with Genesect's other coverage moves. This set loves having entry hazards on the field, as nearly all of Genesect's checks are grounded and are quickly pushed into 2HKO-OHKO range.</p>

    <p>Unlike the Choice Scarf set, this set actually has a legitimate weakness in the form of mediocre Speed. Genesect is now checked by a slew of faster offensive Pokemon such as Terrakion, Keldeo, and fast special attackers with a Fire-type move, in addition to already being checked by defensive Pokemon, such as Blissey, Chansey, and Heatran. Like the Choice Scarf set, this set appreciates Dugtrio support, as it is capable of removing Heatran, Blissey, and Terrakion. This Genesect variant is a top-notch wallbreaker, so don't hesitate to load your team up with powerful offensive Pokemon that benefit from weakened or removed walls. Dragon-types such as Dragonite, Latios, Latias, and Salamence love having Genesect by their side, as it's very capable of weakening or killing walls before fainting, which is of paramount importance for these Pokemon. Other insanely powerful threats such as Landorus, Keldeo, and Breloom benefit similarly from Genesect's presence.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Bug Buzz
    move 2: U-turn / Giga Drain / Flamethrower
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Thunderbolt
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Download
    nature: Rash / Mild
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Choice Specs is a no-brainer on a Pokemon like Genesect; it boosts its already fantastic Special Attack and makes it exceedingly difficult to wall. Choice Specs-boosted Bug Buzz is capable of annihilating pretty much anything that switches in, save dedicated special walls such as Blissey or Heatran. Genesect's coverage moves pick up the slack, as they're effective against the Pokemon that resist Bug Buzz, though for the most part you should be spamming Bug Buzz as even Pokemon that resist Bug Buzz take huge damage from it. For example, Scizor and Forretress are both 3HKOed by Bug Buzz and even 2HKOed if Genesect has received a Special Attack boost from Download. Download is appreciated, perhaps even more so than any of Genesect's other sets, because at +1, its Choice Specs-boosted moves are pushed into overkill territory. Thunderbolt is notable for being able to heavily damage Genesect's checks after a Download boost&mdash; for example, offensive Heatran is 2HKOed by a +1 Thunderbolt after Stealth Rock. U-turn should see very little use on this set, as you'll get more mileage out of spamming powerful attacking moves. Only use it when your opponent has hard stops to this set, such as Heatran or Chansey.</p>

    <p>Giga Drain is a handy move to have for taking down Terrakion and Gastrodon, Pokemon that are otherwise capable of semi-checking this set. Flamethrower is effective against Steel-types, though keep in mind that Genesect doesn't gain any notable coverage with Flamethrower, as most Steel-types can barely take Bug Buzz or Thunderbolt regardless, and it's useless on rain teams. The ability to OHKO most Steel-types at any time is handy, however. The Choice Specs set is also capable of bluffing a Choice Scarf set, though the somewhat obvious increase in power will instantly give you away, so don't count on more than one successful bluff.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Naive or Hasty natures are decent replacements over the main natures listed, though this really only relevant against opposing Genesect, as the Pokemon that reside near Genesect's Speed tier, such as Haxorus or Hydreigon, rarely (if ever) run max Speed and thus one should prioritize power over Speed. It should go without saying that Thunder can be used over Thunderbolt on rain teams; take note that Choice Specs-boosted Thunder is astonishingly powerful. In addition to being able to 2HKO Offensive Heatran without Stealth Rock, if Genesect receives a Special Attack boost via Download, it is actually capable of 2HKOing Specially Defensive Heatran with Thunder, a feat that should speak for itself. Flash Cannon gives Genesect the ability to destroy Kyurem-B as well as an answer to potential Terrakion switch-ins, if so inclined. Hidden Power Ground is actually a somewhat decent move on the Choice Specs set, as Genesect more or less has the room to fit it in, and it's capable of OHKOing Specially Defensive Heatran after Stealth Rock. This variant of Genesect doesn't really need any particular partners; it's arguably the set that relies on Dugtrio the least, as it's capable of 2HKOing Heatran under specific situations. Dugtrio is still a fine partner, as instantly removing Heatran and Blissey from the battle is preferable to weakening them into KO range over time. Choice Specs Genesect predictably benefits from entry hazards, as they secure more OHKOs/2HKOs and synergize with Genesect's ability to force switches. This variant of Genesect is not as much of a team player as the Choice Scarf set; it's slow, and in some cases, you might find that extra Special Attack to be unnecessary; however, with appropriate play you will be rewarded with surprise KOs on key targets. Choice Specs Genesect takes the term impossible to wall to a whole other level.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: U-turn
    move 2: Iron Head / Zen Headbutt
    move 3: Flamethrower
    move 4: Explosion / Ice Beam
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Download
    nature: Naive / Hasty
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Choice Band seems like an odd item to use on Genesect, as after all, its physical movepool is underwhelming compared to its divine special movepool, and as such, it's much better suited to special attacking. However, all of those concerns are made irrelevant when Download and a powerful U-turn are taken into account. Genesect has the potential to use a boosted U-turn which runs off an absurdly high 762 Attack stat, without a single turn of setup&mdash;indeed, it exceeds even the legendary Choice Band Scizor's in power. In addition, Genesect is still capable of using powerful special attacks to defeat physical walls switching into U-turn. Iron Head is a powerful STAB move, though its coverage is redundant with U-turn, and Steel is a terrible standalone offensive typing,so make sure you use this move with care, notably against Terrakion or Gliscor switch-ins. Flamethrower, even without Special Attack investment, is capable of 2HKOing Pokemon which would otherwise wall this set, such as Skarmory and Forretress. This set is simple in execution; spam U-turn to your heart's content while making selective use out of Genesect's coverage moves to remove Pokemon that would otherwise wall you. Zen Headbutt can be used over Iron Head to target different threats, such as Tentacruel, Keldeo, and Volcarona, though like Iron Head it should be used carefully as it's a move that is very easy for the opponent to take advantage of. Explosion can be used as a final coup de grace to heavily damage pretty much anything that switches in, though you should consider using it only after you've obtained an Attack boost. Choice Band Genesect is particularly effective against lead Deoxys-D, as it outspeeds and OHKOes it (thus preventing it from setting up entry hazards).</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Naughty or Lonely nature can be used for more power, though Choice Band Genesect sorely misses the ability to outrun Deoxys-D. On the other hand, there's no overwhelming need to run extra Speed on Choice Band Genesect as it's primarily used as a heavy hitter that switches into Pokemon that can't threaten it, so feel free to run either of the Attack boosting natures if you have Deoxys-D covered. Thunderbolt or Thunder can be used to deal with Skarmory while rain is up, though you're better off just U-turning against it, as an uninvested Thunderbolt cannot OHKO Skarmory. Genesect does its best Scizor impression when using Quick Attack, and it's a semi-legitimate move option, as Quick Attack does decent damage, especially after an Attack boost,and is useful for KOing weakened targets. This set predictably pairs up well with Rotom-W to form the Volt-turn core, and with Dugtrio, which easily traps Heatran without much fuss. It also pairs up with Choice Scarf Landorus or Mienshao, as either of these Pokemon can take up the role of fast revenge killer with U-turn. Magnezone is a great partner to this set because it can trap and kill most of the Pokemon that can take U-turns from Choice Band Genesect, and it also has access to Volt Switch. Entry hazards are a given, as they can be used to punish your opponent for constantly switching, which will invariably happen as Genesect is prone to causing switches. Even though you want to spam U-turn, using Genesect's coverage moves at the right time can prove useful. Its Speed can be a problem too, so keep that in mind when facing opposing Genesect.</p>

    [OTHER OPTIONS]

    <p>For a technologically advanced super bug, Genesect's movepool is surprisingly small. It has everything it needs to function as an offensive juggernaut, while everything else is pretty much just filler. Explosion can be used on the Choice Scarf set as a last minute Hail Mary play, though you wouldn't want to give up a precious moveslot for Explosion and you definitely wouldn't want to waste your precious Genesect! Genesect gets moves like Shadow Ball, Tri Attack, and Psychic; you know, moves you'll never use but are nice to list anyway. Metal Sound could be decent on special attacking sets, as Genesect doesn't have access to conventional boosting moves like Calm Mind or Nasty Plot. It can run a dual screen set but... why would you ever want to run dual screen Genesect? Charge Beam is the only way for it to boost its Special Attack outside of Download, and it's a decent (albeit unreliable) choice on special attacking sets. Flame Charge is definitely outclassed by Rock Polish and shouldn't see use, period. Unfortunately, the only good thing about its signature move, Techno Blast, is the name. It's almost entirely outclassed by everything else. It can theoretically use the Douse Drive to target Heatran in the rain, but Life Orb-boosted Hidden Power Water is actually stronger. Aside from protecting Genesect from Trick, the drives are utterly useless.</p>

    [CHECKS AND COUNTERS]

    <p>Genesect is unarguably the hardest Pokemon in the game to counter. There are plenty of Pokemon that can switch into it, but all of them are vulnerable to U-turn or a particular coverage move. Heatran comes to mind as the undisputed best Genesect "counter". It can switch into almost everything Genesect can use and threaten it with a 4x super effective Fire-type move. The issue with using Heatran to counter Genesect is that Genesect is usually paired up with Dugtrio, a Pokemon that can easily trap and KO it. By switching Heatran into Genesect, you risk it using U-turn and switching to Dugtrio; fortunately this can be circumvented by using Shed Shell on Heatran. Blissey and Chansey are capable of walling Genesect in regards to special attacking and crippling it with Thunder Wave, though they're vulnerable to U-turn, and the former is also vulnerable to Dugtrio. Terrakion with sandstorm support is the best offensive check to Genesect in the tier. It resists U-turn / Bug Buzz and doesn't take much from any its coverage moves, barring Giga Drain or Steel-type STAB. It's highly effective at checking Genesect in the sand, but it's also a decent check outside of it (though it should watch out for boosted special attacks). Keldeo functions similarly to Terrakion, as it resists U-turn / Bug Buzz, Flamethrower, and IceBeam, but it has to watch out for Electric-type moves. Tentacruel is a decent check in the rain, as it's capable of taking on everything Genesect can throw at it, barring Electric-type attacks, and can recover from repeated U-turns with Rain Dish. Jellicent functions similarly to Tentacruel, with Recover instead of Rain Dish and a shared vulnerability to Electric-type moves. Unfortunately, it might not get the opportunity to recover against fast paced Genesect teams. Gastrodon is a decent, albeit shaky, check to Genesect. It's capable of taking on most of the special attacking sets, though only if it switches into a coverage move; Gastrodon does not like taking repeated U-turns, nor can it handle Giga Drain. Rotom-Ha ctually resists all of Genesect's moves&mdash;U-turn, Bug Buzz, Flamethrower, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Giga Drain, Flash Cannon, and Giga Drain&mdash;and it completely bypasses Dugtrio with Levitate, but its Stealth Rock weakness makes it an unreliable check.</p>

    <p>Choice Scarf Genesect is somewhat checked by faster Choice Scarf users, such as Keldeo, Thundurus-T, Landorus, Garchomp, and Salamence. All of these Pokemon either have a move powerful enough to OHKO it or are capable of crippling it to the point where it's limited to only 1 or 2 more switches into battle (assuming Stealth Rock is in play). If Genesect is not using Choice Scarf, it's checked by pretty much everything faster that exists in the OU tier. As it causes tons of switches, entry hazards are especially effective at curbing the number of times it can switch into battle. Genesect can be trapped and KOed by either Magnezone or Magneton. While you can generally switch these Pokemon into Genesect as it uses a coverage move, it's much safer to have it KO a Pokemon of your own (assuming it is Choice-locked) and then to revenge kill it. Overall, though, "You don't counter Genesect" should be your mantra. You should check it by switching a Pokemon into a resisted move or actively working to prevent it from setting up if you suspect a Rock Polish set. Admittedly, there aren't many other ways to deal with Genesect, as it's notoriously difficult to counter. Remember to keep in mind that no Pokemon, no matter how powerful, can defeat the player who effectively plays against its strategy.</p>
  2. Flygoner818

    Flygoner818

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2008
    Messages:
    67
    I don't think the Rock Polish set needs to run all that speed: I'd run a Modest nature with 116 Spd EVs: At +0 he outruns positive base-70s, and at +2 it outspeeds Choice Scarf Latios and below. I've got a spread like 136 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 116 Spd and Modest. Food for thought.
  3. Lee

    Lee @ Thick Club
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    4,470
    max SpA on CB is wasteful - Download U-turn goes from 837 Atk to 681 and, frankly, if U-turn isn't hitting as hard as possible then why are you using CB in the first place? Iron Head is worth a look too.

    Timid on RP seems a little excessive too, unless you're really worried you won't be able to set up. The difference in power is further emphasised by Download (508 vs 558)
  4. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte The Great Stone Dragon
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    Just wondering, why are the remaining evs being put into SpD when you can put them in U-Turn to make it hit like 0.1% harder? Do they allow it to tank certain hits?
  5. pie cream

    pie cream

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    ^I think it's for the pokemon with download maybe?
  6. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

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    With either a Hasty or Naive nature, it doesn't really matter for opposing Downloads, as one defensive stat will always be lower than the other. Maybe it's to take Meteors better or something...? Personally, I just throw it into Attack for that minuscule oomph behind my U-turn spamming.
  7. Death Phenomeno

    Death Phenomeno I'm polite so just for clarity, when I'm cross I
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    While this is true, the Drives also make Genesect immune to Trick (and item theft in general). If you're going to mention the Drives at all, then you should also mention this as well.

    Other than the Douse Drive, the Shock Drive is the only other remotely useful one. Since Genesect's sprite changes so little (compare here & here), you could potentially screw up a bad player that doesn't pay enough attention. The other two are completely useless.
  8. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Thanks for the spread!

    Yeah that was an error on my part, I forgot to change the evs. The set has been removed until further notice though.

    I used the DW Genesect analysis as reference and they use 4 SpD as well. I don't see any harm in throwing that extra Atk EV though (unless there's a reason to keeping it)

    Noted.
  9. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    Initial thoughts:

    - Choice Scarf looks perfect
    - Rock Polish is probably not as good as the all-out-attacker, so I think it should be moved down one.
    - Not 100% sure about the slashes on the RP set. The desire for all 4 moves is what causes me to dislike it.
    - Also not sure about the spread. I certainly won't be looking to set up RP every time I bring Genesect in. Having such a slow spread really limits its capabilities before a boost.
    - All-out attacker might be better with Rash or Mild. Not sure how common Timid Hydreigon / Jolly Haxorus / Timid Kyurem are but I suspect not especially. I suppose Timid Deoxys-D is common enough.
    - Before this is approved, I'd really like to test Choice Band. I can't do that yet because two of its moves (Iron Head and Zen Headbutt) are not on PS yet. The astonishing power of U-turn, coupled with the ability to take down some special walls is promising. I'm surprised by the coverage offered by a moveset of Iron Head / U-turn / Zen Headbutt / Flamethrower (or thunderbolt). It appears to be walled by very little except Heatran, which is the bane of all Genesect sets.
    - Bearing in mind how annoying Heatran is, HP Ground needs to be mentioned on most of the sets.
    - Metal Sound in OO.
  10. Omicron

    Omicron
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    I've seen Focus Sash used to great effect, whether it is used to set up a Rock Polish or just to survive another hit and strike back. It's immune to Sandstorm, which is easily one of the more popular weather play styles, and although it isn't immune to entry hazards like Alakazam, an OO mention or maybe even AC mention wouldn't hurt.
  11. col49

    col49 unpolished
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    From running Genesect fairly extensively, I can say definitely mention HP Ground on all but the scarf set. As it's first and fore-mostly a revenge killer and pivot, Genesect really needs all the moves listed (with the possible exception of Bug Buzz>Flamethrower) to accomplish this task. HP Ground is not only incredibly exploitable (Choice-locked Ground-type attacks are just awkward in general, etc. etc.), but is generally very situational, and it would usually be much better simply to U-Turn out and have teammates to handle bulky Fire-types that check him. On that note I'd really like to see a mention of Dugtrio as a partner, who can take advantage of the switch initiative granted by U-Turn to trap and KO problematic Pokemon such as Heatran, Ninetales, Magnezone, and Chandelure. Also, feel free to disregard this, but I've personally found a combination of Bug Buzz / HP Ground / (Ice Beam / Thunderbolt) / (Custom) to be the most effective moveset for non-CS sets (meaning U-Turn on all-out attacker and RP on RP, obv.). The lack of spammable STAB kinda hurts, with the current one relying mostly on it's SE coverage to get by, which I've found a touch less reliable. That's all I can think of atm, hope it helped :P
  12. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    Just because Genesect is pretty much faster than everything after a boost does not mean that he is before it. I'd pretty much just go with max Speed to tie with other Genesects and outspeed stuff like Haxorus and Hydreigon because there WILL be times where you're coming in unboosted and you'd want to revenge kill them.

    As for Scarf, I'd suggest adding some attack EVs to pump up U-turn a little bit. I remember running just 4 Attack in Dream World and it has always come out too weak in my opinion. I'd say something like 112 Atk / 144 SpA / 252 Spe Naive / Hasty might work better, as you can now OHKO 252/0 Latias with SR.
  13. Thaldios

    Thaldios

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    Small fix.

    "-Base 99 speed unfortunately means its outspaced by +1 Salamence and Scarf Landorus-T/Thundurus-T"

    This ought to be Scarf Landorus-I instead (101 Spe) rather than Scarf Landorus-T (91 Spe), which it outspeeds easily. Easy typo I guess, but it helps greatly in the analysis.

    Otherwise, my favorite new Pokemon is doing excellent. PK, another professional analysis.
  14. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    The only qualm I have with shrang's spread is that now Genesect loses out on the guaranteed OHKO after SR against Thundurus-T with reduced SAtk. The ability to OHKO Specs Tornadus-T after SR also drops from 75% to 31%. However, a strong U-turn is certainly appealing, since that's the move Genesect would be spamming the most.
  15. alkinesthetase

    alkinesthetase <@dtc> every day with alk is a bad day
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    i think there are too many different spreads scarfsect can run if you're concerned about attack or spatk benchmarks - too many to write in an analysis, anyway. but I'll throw another spread into the pool, this one being based on a speed benchmark: 40 atk / 252+ satk / 216 spd. (it's for scarf)

    with this much speed, it always outruns +1 jolly gyarados, and ofc also any +1 base 80s (eg jolly dragonite after one dd). you'll already outrun any +0 seeing as you have a scarf, and you'll never outrun +1 salamence or volc anyway, so between base 99 and base 81, the most likely mons you'll encounter at +1 are other scarf genesect, dd/scarf haxorus and scarf hydreigon. (you might meet a random agility lucario but that's not something you're about to outrun no matter how much speed you carry) if you're willing to give up on those threats you can pack a hell of a lot more punch by changing natures. you can drop to 204 speed if you don't care about gyara and only want to outrun dnite.

    EDIT: facepalm on kyurem and lando-t; they haven't been added to smogon's list of mons in OU yet >_> (not sure if kyurem got enough usage to hit OU). however i'm not sure if i'd risk the speed tie against an opposing genesect anyway. it's nice to know you can take that risk if you must, but still, i don't want to be rolling my genesect on the chance that i don't get flamethrowered
  16. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    The bolded part definitely justifies the running of max speed. There are heaps of times where you'll come up against another Scarf Genesect, and you never know when you're going to just Flamethrower you. The other two are also extremely important. You also missed Choice Scarf Kyurem and Landorus-T as well, both of which pretty damn common. Scarf Genesect should definitely have Speed.
  17. Harsha

    Harsha Rest In Beats
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    Ok, I definitely agree that maximum SpA / Speed is the way to go; your EVs are pretty much spot-on unless we want to invest more in Atk to give Genesect a stronger U-turn. While this weakens Genesect's sweeping potential, you're going to be using U-turn more often than not, so it might actually be worthwhile. We could settle for a jump point in SpA if this is the case.

    Also definitely mention Focus Sash in the OO. It comes in handy for Genesect vs Genesect matchups, which can actually happen quite frequently because Genesect is usually an opposing lead. Flame Charge is also a decent option, but again I'd go with OO here. I hear it gets Giga Drain so that's definitely an option.
  18. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    It's now possible to test the CB set on PS. Here's what I'm using:

    name: Choice Band
    move 1: U-turn
    move 2: Zen Headbutt
    move 3: Flamethrower / Thunderbolt
    move 4: Iron Head / Ice Beam
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Download
    nature: Naughty / Lonely
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    It's not going too badly so far. I think I've only used a move other than U-turn once, and that was Zen Headbutt, which I really think is a must on this set for its ability to KO Fighting and Poison-types, and even some of the frailer Fire types such as Volcarona and Ninetales. The third move is largely for Steels, Thunderbolt being better in the rain, but otherwise Flamethrower is better. Iron Head hits surprisingly little significantly harder than the other moves, but it hits everything reasonably hard. Ice Beam does offer OHKOes on stuff like Salamence, Gliscor and Landorus though. It's a difficult one.
  19. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Is there any reason to use CB Genesect when CB Scizor exists?
  20. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    Well it might give up Bullet Punch, and I understand that's a big deal, but instead it gains power (most of the time), coverage, and a lot of Speed. It might lack Superpower, but if Scizor got Zen Headbutt I would definitely use it. It also has a degree of surprise value; Genesect attacts Special walls, generally, rather than being predictable like Scizor.
  21. BurningMan

    BurningMan fueled by beer

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    The element of Suprise? Hitting a lot harder after a download boost? Being able fry Skarmory? You simply hate Scizor and think Priority is somehow cheating? You like Heatran so much you wouldn't even think about hurting it with Superpower? Oh and Zen Headbutt xD

    I don't really think it would be that good sure the U-Turn hits hard even more so after a DL boost wich sounds nice considering that this is your most used move, but overall you are not as fast as the scarf set so spamming it becomes a lot harder. I also think that being locked into any of the other moves just creates set-up opportunities for your opponent because they both have lackluster BP and coverage and being locked in a non invested, no stab flamethrower also doesn't sounds that cool to me considering how common rain is.
  22. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    A few things before I approve (some of them will just be you being lazy because it's only a skeleon):


    • I can't decide myself between -Def and -SpD natures generally, but you probably should be consistent throughout.
    • Bug Buzz in ADDITION to U-turn should be AC mentioned on Scarf and All-out-attacker.
    • EBelt > Life Orb in my opinion. Genesect is very commonly choiced, has great super effective coverage, and really doesn't appreciate the recoil when U-turning at all. It's really not just a choice scarf bluff.
    • On Rock Polish, you should AC mention HP Water over Flamethrower for use on Rain. You should also stress that max speed is largely for before you boost.
    • Flamethrower should be first slash on CB. I barely found the opportunity to use Explosion, and I can't stand being walled by Steels. If anything I'd use Explosion over Ice Beam, as you can explode on Gliscor and Landorus but it won't achieve too much against Skarm.
    • Zen Headbutt hits more things than that, including Lucario, Infernape and Keldeo, and even Ninetales. To suggest that it hits only very specific targets would not be fair. It hits fighting and poison-types, and frail fire-types.
    • Put thunder/thunderbolt in AC of that set for skarm in rain.
    [qc]1/3[/qc]

    edit: I approve specs too.
  23. Ojama

    Ojama Let's trizzle the shizzle all over the hizzle
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    Tested the scarf set, it's definitely an incredible set and the best one for Genesect. Also, a Timid nature on the scarf set could work, U-Turn is only for scouting.

    Bug Buzz over Thunderbolt, really. Thunderbolt isn't extremely usefull, it only hits Gyarados, Tentacruel and Keldeo and since Genesect is almost always used in a Volturn / Offensive Teams with Dugtrio, this isn't very usefull. Imo Bug Buzz is better, you should slash it with TBolt, which is still a good option but tbh, running a STAB is better. Your spread is full SpA / Spe and your only STAB is in Atk, so that "sucks" a bit. Just my opinion.
  24. EonX

    EonX One of a Kind
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    I've been trying out the EB set myself, and it's been really good. I run it with Hasty instead of Mild so I can bluff the Scarf on a few more threats and it's really good alongside Landorus-I on a Sand team. IMO, they're the best EB users in the tier and running them together really makes it difficult for the opponent to determine which one is actually Scarfed. I do use 40 Atk / 216 SAtk / 252 Spe spread just so U-Turn has some pop with a Download boost. I haven't tried Mild yet, but I really do like being able to always outrun Specs Rotom-W and neutral base 100s.
  25. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    • Yeah. My intention was to list the -Def nature first on every set, Naughty was just a mistake.
    • Done
    • Done
    • Done
    • Done
    • In my experience, the Pokemon I listed were the only ones that would intentionally switch into Genesect. I suppose I could mention Infernape (though they're pretty rare, and very few people would straight up switch something as frail as infernape into Genesect). Lucario is another Pokemon that I wouldn't switch into Genesect, it's rare and its also covered by Flamethrower. I guess I could mention Amoongus & Gengar but bottom line is I don't think I should go out of my way to mention all of those things you suggested (frail fire types, fighting pokemon outside of the pokemon I listed, etc)Using Zen Headbutt for anything else is just a bad idea (non-psychic STAB sucks ass)
    • Done

    Done.

    Believe me hitting those 3 Pokemon (as well Politoed & Jellicent) is too useful to pass up. Having a strong STAB sounds like a requirement, but what exactly are you hitting that those other 3 coverage moves aren't? Support Mew and Reuniclus are the only ones I can think of. Bug Buzz is better for sweeping (though tbh i've swept with +1 coverage moves before...) but this Genesect isn't much of a sweepers. Its a revenge killer / killer / thing first, and a revenge killer second. Don't get me wrong, I think Bug Buzz is awesome (its harder to "check" Bug Buzz since it hits so damn hard) but I don't think it should get the main slash over Thunderbolt.

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