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Genesect

Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by Furai, Aug 10, 2012.

  1. RNGnoob

    RNGnoob

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    I can see E-speed being used with the banded set, it now has a boosting move so the physical set with Shift Gear/E-Speed/Iron head and X scissor might be move viable, what do you think?

    Genesect@Life orb
    Jolly/Adamant nature
    252 speed/252 attack/4 hp?
    -Shift gear
    -Iron head
    -Extreme speed/Explosion
    -X scissor/Flamethrower/Ice beam
  2. NfskMjmMal

    NfskMjmMal

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    About Adamant vs Jolly, Adamant +2 Genesect still outspeeds everything as slow and slower than Timid Choice Scarf Mewtwo (which it would outspeed by three points), but when you're not boosted, you're outspeed by positive Speed Kyurem-W/B, Rayquaza, and don't get to speed tie with positive Speed Genesects of course. And yeah, X-scissor will get more use because you typically don't want a VoltTurn move on a manual boosting set, and of course Shift Gear variants won't be Choiced anyway. Blaze Kick isn't a horrible move but not an outstanding one either. In any event, 4MSS pls
  3. ElectivireRocks

    ElectivireRocks Banned deucer.

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    I'm more concerned about its ability to guarantee an OHKO on any non-ghost type in the game with Explosion after just a turn of setup and SR damage, provided it gets an Attack boost from download.
    I wouldn't be surprised if Genesect ends up in the top 3 in usage, with Arceus-Ghost and the Giratina formes being close behind.

    Well, almost any non-ghost type in the game:

    +2 252+ Atk Normal Gem Genesect Explosion vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Steel: 361-425 (81.48 - 95.93%) -- 18.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Looks like Explosion is back and its wants revenge after a generation of disuse.

    Edit:

    Genesect@Normal Gem/Life Orb
    Adamant nature
    252 speed/252 attack/4 hp
    -Shift gear
    -Blaze Kick
    -Explosion
    -Shadow Claw
    With this set every single non-ghost type in ubers is boned. Blaze Kick scares steel-types not named Heatran (which still falls to Explosion) off.
    Shadow Claw is for ghosts, but it needs Life Orb to 2HKO Giratina-A without entry hazards. Normal Gem however ensures a ton of key OHKO's with Explosion so it's usually the better option.

    Unless I'm missing something this set doesn't suffer from a 4MSS and it will kill something unless played in spectacularly poor fashion. How exactly do you counter this thing without losing a pokemon?

    You can probably guess your opponent is running this set because it's best used lategame, so if you don't see Genesect spamming U-Turn over and over right from the start it will probably be running Shift Gear. At least it makes Genesect a bit more predictable.
  4. Haunter

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    Excellent. Extremespeed will make CB Genesect even better.
  5. Cherub Agent

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    Am i missing something here or how has genesect set up two shift gears in you explosion calcs? It boosts attack by 1.5 and speed by 2. That said band extremespeed sounds phenomenal

    Edit: oh yeah download
  6. Cheapoman

    Cheapoman

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    Saw this just now. wow, looks like Genesect is getting quite the buff. That +2 is gonna be ridiculous. >:-0
  7. ElectivireRocks

    ElectivireRocks Banned deucer.

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    Actually CB Extremespeed is surprisingly weak even after a Download boost and Iron Head or U-Turn are better most of the time.

    +1 252 Atk Choice Band Genesect ExtremeSpeed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 203-239 (71.98 - 84.75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    +1 252 Atk Choice Band Genesect ExtremeSpeed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-W: 203-239 (51.91 - 61.12%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    +1 252 Atk Choice Band Genesect ExtremeSpeed vs. 88 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Normal: 158-187 (39.2 - 46.4%) -- 28.91% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    +1 252 Atk Choice Band Genesect ExtremeSpeed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mewtwo: 203-239 (57.34 - 67.51%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    +1 252 Atk Choice Band Genesect ExtremeSpeed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rayquaza: 203-239 (57.83 - 68.09%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    +1 252 Atk Choice Band Genesect ExtremeSpeed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kyogre: 203-239 (59.35 - 69.88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    +1 252 Atk Choice Band Genesect ExtremeSpeed vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Palkia: 206-243 (64.17 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    These are the most important Extremspeed targets and all of them avoid the OHKO after SR. I suppose you could use an Adamant nature, bet then you get outsped by a lot of stuff if you're not using ES so it's risky.

    Honestly I wouldn't run Extremespeed on a choiced set; you're just asking for anything with half decent physical bulk or a ghost-type to come in and set up for free. It's certainly an option on the Shift Gear set, though.
  8. Lord of Bays

    Lord of Bays

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    Download boosts, Cherub.

    I'm kinda wondering about what moves Shift Gear Genesect would run. Blaze Kick, Iron Head, and X-Scissor? What about Lum Berry vs Life Orb? I'm running some calcs and it looks like you really need Life Orb to get 2HKOs and OHKOs.
  9. Haunter

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    Well, it's supposed to be a revenge killer, not a sweeper. Btw, running adamant gives you a good chance to ohko Darkrai and Latios after SR. Of course you'll be using u-turn most of the time.
  10. Haruno

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    Well +2 252spd genesect outspeeds the whole tier bar scarfed deo-s and at +2 252+ atk with LO it ohko's the vast majority of ubers not heavily invested in def. Not to mention gene can still setup on the likes of lati twins, forry, etc so it's not exactly hard to setup. It'll be interesting to see though.
  11. ElectivireRocks

    ElectivireRocks Banned deucer.

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    Heatran will probably see a lot more of usage because it's the only "safe" counter to most of its sets bar those carrying HP Ground, Water Techno Blast (lol) or Shift Gear+Explosion.
    Heatran is a pretty solid pokemon in ubers anyway so it shouldn't be hard to add it to a team.
    With Protect it can either scout for choiced sets or if you're skilled/lucky make Genesect kill itself with Explosion.
  12. Punchshroom

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    Actually, +2 and +1 with CB boost are different. +2 gives you 2x the power; +1 CB gives you 1.5*1.5 = 2.25x the power.
  13. justinjiaxinghu

    justinjiaxinghu

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    Explosion Genesect is quite cool, as it kills things and grants a free switch in (i sound like a noob right now). U-Turn is a great scouting move, and kills the Lati@s twins, Mewtwo, and Darkrai.

    +1 128 Atk Genesect Explosion vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Ho-Oh: 381-449 (107.93 - 127.19%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    +1 128 Atk Genesect Explosion vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 383-451 (92.28 - 108.67%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
  14. b2j135

    b2j135

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    I suppose Shift Gear is the compensation for Genesect not getting a High-Speed Flight Forme so it's a move instead.
    [​IMG]
    I can see a moveset like this being a good lead set

    Genesect@Life Orb/Expert Belt (If you want to keep it alive longer)
    Adamant nature/Jolly nature (more speed)
    252 speed/252 attack/6 hp
    -Shift gear
    -Blaze Kick
    -U-Turn/X-scissors (for more power)
    -Extremespeed

    I'd consider this set a lead set, you start off against let's say...Forretress/Ferrothorn
    It setups rocks and you setup Shift Gear, but they think your setting up to do Flamethrower since....you know, your a Genesect.
    Now after you get your big +2Speed+1Attack you go for the Blaze Kick ANNIHILATING Ferrothorn but Forry stays because of Study (unless your luck and get the burn) and then Volt Switches out. You are now faster than most of the team, barring Deoxys-S and are free to make the next move. Heck even if they did bring in Deoxys or any other Psychic/Dark/Grass type, they would get of taste of that beautiful U-turn.

    What do you guys think?
  15. shrang

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    Wait, why would Ferrothorn and Forretress set up SR if they're predicting a Flamethrower?
  16. MatchMaster

    MatchMaster

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    I can see Choice Band and even a shift gear set becoming more popular than Choice Scarf. Here's what I think the CB set will look like:

    Genesect @ Choice Band
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly / Adamant Nature
    - U-turn
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Blaze Kick
    - X-Scissor / Iron Head / Explosion

    ExtremeSpeed was almost exactly what CB Genesect needed: a powerful priority move. Doesn't get revenged as easily by CS Palkia or Salamence. Blaze Kick finally gives it a powerful way of hurting steel-types without relying on Download to give Flamethrower a boost. (Speaking of Flamethrower, it won't need it, as all its targets are hit harder by Blaze Kick) U-Turn is still there, as it is one of CB Genesect's best qualities. The Last slot is mainly situational, but X-Scissor seems to fit to hit things harder than U-Turn without switching out. Iron Head hits Terrakion, while Explosion allows you to even do over 50% to 252 / 4 Forretress after a Download boost, so it will pretty much destroy anything else.
  17. b2j135

    b2j135

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    Well...not everyone is as ballsy as me I suppose.
    Maybe Forretress would instead Volt Switch/setup Spikes/Toxic Spikes, or just switch out in general.
    Ferrothorn MIGHT go for the Thunderwave/Leech Seed/Protect/ or just switch out as well.
    There are multiple scenarios you can take with this.
    If it were me, and I was using Forry, I would stay in and lay down the SR. If I started out with Ferro, I would MOST LIKELY Protect and then Switch...unless I have the Focus Sash in which I would stay in after my opponent uses w/e and then go for the TWave/Leech Seed.
  18. SmashBrosBrawl

    SmashBrosBrawl

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    [​IMG]
    Genesect @ Life Orb
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 104 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Shift Gear
    - X-Scissor
    - Blaze Kick
    - Iron Head
    Outspeeds scarf terrakion after one boost and adamant plus life orb gives it maximum power. The rest of the evs are dumped into HP for extra bulk. Use this in sun to boost blaze kick power.
    +1 252+ Atk Life Orb Genesect X-Scissor vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kyogre: 289-341 (84.5 - 99.7%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    +1 252+ Atk Life Orb Genesect X-Scissor vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Palkia: 265-312 (82.29 - 96.89%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    +1 252+ Atk Life Orb Genesect Blaze Kick vs. 88 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Normal in sun: 242-285 (60.04 - 70.71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +1 252+ Atk Life Orb Genesect Iron Head vs. 164 HP / 4 Def Giratina-O: 265-312 (54.97 - 64.73%) --guaranteed 2HKO
    +1 252+ Atk Life Orb Genesect Blaze Kick vs. 252 HP / 176+ Def Lugia in sun: 178-211 (42.78 - 50.72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    +1 252+ Atk Life Orb Genesect Blaze Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dialga in sun: 242-285 (59.9 - 70.54%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +1 252+ Atk Life Orb Genesect Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rayquaza: 286-339 (81.48 - 96.58%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    All you need is stealth rock on the field and stuff will die. The only things that can switch on you are heatran, ho-oh (without stealth rocks), groudon (though unless it has a fire move it will lose to you) and giratina. Sounds like a great sweeper. Cant wait to test it out.
  19. Hack

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    @b2j135:

    No one leads with Ferrothorn. Forretress has sturdy and gets hazards if you set up on it. Ho-oh still craps on that set since you get the special attack boost from download against Forretress. This set hardly does well against other common stuff like Dialga, Fire Punch Groudon, Scarf Kyogre, Darkrai, Deoxys-S with a fire move, all very common leads. Against other Genesect, who are presumably scarfed, you have to contend with the possibility of Flamethrower as well (even though no one should use that on a scarf Genesect in Ubers unless very specific situations). And yeah, the Pokémon I mentioned are the most common leads in Ubers according to usage stats from April.
  20. Theorymon

    Theorymon ☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄
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    I don't think these changes are big revolutions for Genesect, since I'm almost positive that the Choice Scarf sets will still be the most common. They certainly aren't bad though!

    Blaze Kick- I see this as being the most used new move. On Physical Genesect, it DOES do more damage to a lot of mons than Flamethrower. This is partly because of the likely chance of Genesect getting an attack boost. A good example is Ferrothorn in the rain: Since they are specially defensive, you dont get a boost, so you are dealing 30.68 - 36.36%. Meanwhile, a boosted Blaze Kick in the rain will deal 57.95 - 69.31%! Be warned though, you can't 2HKO Forretress in the rain with Blaze Kick, you need Flamethrower for that because of the download boost. and you will get hit by Ferrothorn's iron barbs which is annoying, so Flamethrower might still have some merit.

    Choice Band will certainly prefer Blaze Kick over Flamethrower though. Forretress is still 2HKOed by that in the rain even without the attack boost, and Ferrothorn now takes a nasty 88.63 - 104.54% in the rain due to the download boost!

    ExtremeSpeed- Heh, I had a feeling it was going to get this considering the name of the movie... Anyways, this can be cool on CB Genesect. Now, this isn't going to make CB Genesect a better revenge killer than Scarf obviously, but it sounds like a nice little side job for when you need to kill stuff like weakened Darkrai. That being said, you actually won't usually get an Attack boost vs Darkrai and Mewtwo, since it has equal defense and special defense, meaning you get a Special Attack boost =/. I think ExtremeSpeed has potential on Choice Band, but I don't think it will make it a star. Also, I have to admit, I have a hard time seeing what move it'd replace, since Explosion is great on CB Genesect, Iron Head is actually useful for hitting stuff like Ghost Arceus on the switch neutrally, and Blaze Kick hits steels...

    Shift Gear- This is actually the one I'm most skeptical about. While those calcs showed that it can 2HKO a lot of mons in Ubers, several of those mons (such as Dialga) are going to fry you with a fire move. And of course, Groudon will own it. I guess it's a bit of a step up from Rock Polish, but even then, when I used Rock Polish Genesect, I played it like the Choiceless set only missing an extra move (usually U-turn, but sometimes a coverage move if I wanted to do the whole U-turn momentum keeping thing). This is because in my experience, Genesect isn't really a consistent sweeper and its hard to set up despite the Steel typing (and before you say "set it up with Wobbuffet, Wobbuffet has much more dangerous sweepers to set up!). That said, I'll still probably give it a try (maybe with Ice Beam to screw with Groudon), but I can't help but think that Shift Gear doesn't go far enough to help with Genesect's issues as a sweeper due to an iffy physical movepool and somewhat under powered moves. I could be wrong though, I haven't really thought too much about Shift Gear Genesect yet!
  21. ElectivireRocks

    ElectivireRocks Banned deucer.

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    Genesect's physical movepool isn't terrible, but let's be honest: it's not going to sweep entire teams with 70-85 BP moves with not-so-great attacking types such as Steel and Normal.

    However it can't be understated how absurdly powerful +2 Normal Gem Explosion is. If you have Spikes+SR then even LO is enough.
    Genesect can guarantee a kill per match with a boosted Explosion, while still being able to deal with ghost and steel types.
    Even bulky resists are easily OHKO'd with entry hazards.
    Rain teams will especially appreciate its ability to lure things like Dialga and Groudon and explode on them.
  22. polop

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    ElectivireRocks, I don't think Gene should just commit suicide and explode. Generally you setup because you want to sweep. I can kind of see your logic of using it to setup another sweeper, but I'm a bit confused as to what it'd lure in. I don't think Groudon wants to risk coming into Ice Beam from other genesect's. I can see Dialga switching in to it, but its really not the biggest hindrance to a swift swimmer or a Palkia's sweep. It definetly lures in some Support Arcei too so I guess Explosion could work to an extent, but is it worth the moveslot...and my answer to that is I don't know :P.

    I actually agree mostly with Theorymon's opinion of Gear Shift. You need to acquire an attack boost (which might be a little hard to get) and you need to figure out a way to set it up (I assume mostly through bluffing a revenge kill, I can see this playing shenanigans when used beside a Scarf Kia actually lol :P). It might be a bit hard to use, but I can't tell how it'll work out since I haven't tested it yet. I do think a mix set might be effective though. It can bypass Groudon if it recieves a +1 Special Attack boost, and the +2 boost to that already high speed doesn't mean it needs to fully invest in Speed (running enough for a certain benchmark I think is best). It can now hurt Giratina-a pretty hard before going down, infact if it correctly predicts the form (specially or physically defensive) it can 2HKO it while it comes in. Also doesn't completely change everything if you get the wrong boost. Yeah I know its best to fully invest in speed most of the time so that you can outspeed stuff before the boost, but going mix just sounds so tempting :P.

    Also this Genesect, IMO the best way to say lol at all Grass Arceus. I think pairing this with Palkia in the rain might be effective (its only true counter is Grass Arceus, so one can weaken the enemy's mons for the other to sweep).
  23. cjrocker

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    Hmm, interesting. I guess it's no secret what they're trying to get at here.
  24. Haruno

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    I guess that means it has 31 iv's in both speed/atk. Maybe some ev's as well.
  25. G-Von

    G-Von

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    For everyone posting about the nature of choice while using this new event genesect, it only gets a hasty nature according to bulbapedia.

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