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Gengar (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Atomos, Feb 2, 2011.

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  1. Atomos

    Atomos

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    [​IMG]
    Gengar
    ==================================
    Status: Working on Skeleton
    ==================================
    [Overview]
    • Amazing 130 base Special Attack and 110 base Speed
    • Typing and ability grant it three immunities to switch in easily.
    • Great Offensive Spinblocker.
    • Access to Trick lets it cripple bulky opponents.
    • Very diverse.
    [SET]
    name: SubSplit
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Pain Split
    move 3: Shadow Ball
    move 4: Focus Blast
    item: Life Orb
    evs: 4 Def/252 SpA/252 Spe
    nature: Timid (+Spe - Att)
    Set Comments
    • Helps defeat Stall.
    • Shadow Ball and Focus Blast provide perfect neutral coverage.
    • Substitute prevents Status
    • Pain Split allows Gengar to replenish health and cripple bulky opponents such as Blissey.
    • Peteya and Salac Berries give this gengar sweeping potential, and pair nicely with substitute and pain split
     
    Additional Comments
    • Hidden Power Fire can be used to hit Steel types if Focus Blast's accuracy is a turnoff.
    • Thunderbolt goes great with Ghost and provides some excellent Neutral coverage.
    Teammates & Counters
    • Gengar appreciates Toxic Spikes support to help wear down opposing non-Steel Walls.
    [SET]
    name: Choice
    move 1: Shadow Ball
    move 2: Trick
    move 3: Focus Blast
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice/Hidden Power Fire/Psychic
    item: Choice Specs/Choice Scarf
    evs: 4 Def/252 SpA/ 252 Spe
    nature: Timid/ Modest
    Set Comments
    • Shadow Ball is there for STAB.
    • Focus Blast gives it unresisted coverage.
    • Trick cripples any bulky or transition mon the opponent may send in. If holding Specs, Trick can be used to bait a physical attacker in and force it into one move while not gaining any bonus. Similarly, Scarf hurts Stall teams by giving their insanely slow members a marginal speed boost.
    • Hidden Power Ice is for dragons, and the occasional grass type.
    Additional Comments
    • Psychic hits Fighting types such as Roopushin.
    • Thunderbolt hits water such as Gyarados for SE damage.
    • Hidden Power Fire can be used to hit Steels, although it misses speed ties with other 110 speeds. Latias and Latios spring to mind.
    Teammates & Counters
    [SET]
    name: LO Sweeper
    move 1: Shadow Ball
    move 2: Focus Blast
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire/Hidden Power Ice/Protect
    move 4: Thunderbolt/Protect
    item: Life Orb
    evs: 4 Def/ 252 SpA/252 Spe
    nature: Timid
    Set Comments
    • Shadow Ball is there as generic STAB.
    • Hidden Power Fire hits all of the common Steel types, bar Heatran, for supereffective damage.
    • Protect scouts for Choiced attacks.
    • Hidden Power Ice lets Gengar hit Garchomp.
    • Thunderbolt hits Bulky waters for SE damage.
    Additional Comments
    • HP Ice can be used to hit Dragons instead.
    • Substitute can be used to block status; however, it increases Gengar's frailty.
    • Taunt can be used to prevent the opponent from the enemy from healing or statusing Gengar.
    • Psychic hits bulky Fighting types such as Roobushin.
    Teammates & Counters
    • Zuruzukin provides great offensive synergy as not only do they resist each other's weaknesses, Gengar can hammer the Physical walls that prevent Zuruzukin from sweeping and Zuruzukin can beat up the Special walls that prevent Gengar from switching in.
    [SET]
    Name: SubDisable
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Disable
    move 3: Shadow Ball
    move 4: Focus Blast
    item: Leftovers/Life Orb
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Speed
    nature: Timid
    "Max speed with Timid nature to outrun things in the 108 speed tier, leftovers for survivability, life orb for power. Really awesome set. I've been testing it to great success. If you manage to hit choice users they will be forced to struggle if they don't switch and you can keep subbing until they die from struggle recoil (if your opponent is that dumb). " Will put that into bullet points soon.
     
    [Team Options]
    • Fighting types such as Roopushin appreciate Gengar's ability to dent bulky Ghosts and Grounds. Similarly they can handle Special walls that Gengar may have to face.
    • Gengar will appreciate hazards, especially Toxic Spikes as the additional damage per turn pressures Special walls such as Blissey.
    • Gengar's immunity to Fighting, Ground, and Normal make it a prime candidate to handle physical threats such as Roopushin invite teammates such as Doryuuzu to sweep.
    [Optional Changes]
    • Evil Eye can be used in Conjunction with Toxic Spikes to have a powerful Base 150 move (including STAB).
    • Destiny Bond can be used to net a surprise kill.
    • Will-o-Wisp can be used on the switch-in to burn the incoming physical attacker to help out your team if Gengar has done its job.
    • Grudge could be used as a gimmick.
    • Psychic hits nearly all the Fighting Types that threaten Gengar.
    • If Focus Blast's accuracy deters you from using a fighting type move, Hidden Power Fighting is an alternative with 100% accuracy, albeit with much weaker power
    • Taunt is also a weapon to prevent opposing walls from setting up or healing. However, it requires a lot of prediction. A mispredict could cost you the Gengar.
    • Hidden Power Ice hurts non-Yache Garchomp.
    • Gengar can PerishTrap, but Mismagius does this better.
    [Counters]
    • Tyranitar defeats Gengar if it does not lack Focus Blast. If Gengar defeats it, Doryuuzu outspeeds it and KOs with Rock Slide.
    • Weak to most priority moves. Scizor beats HP-fire-less variants. Sucker Punchers also hurt Gengar.
    • Scarfed Latias and Latios can come in and hurt Gengar.
    • Blissey can wall Gengar forever if it is not running the SubSplit variant.
    [Dream World]
    • Gengar does not have a Dream World ability.
  2. Omicron

    Omicron
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    SubDisable Gengar seriously needs a mention. It can stop sweepers like Roobushin, Landorus, and others that have fighting or ground attacks and one other move to hit Gengar. Disable has 100% accuracy now so it is viable. The idea is to sub to see what the opponent hits you with (i.e. roobushin payback or landorus stone edge) and proceed to disable that move, rendering them unable to touch Gengar for quite a few turns. It is an amazing set.

    name: SubDisable
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Disable
    move 3: Shadow Ball
    move 4: Focus Blast
    item: Leftovers/Life Orb
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Speed
    nature: Timid

    Max speed with Timid nature to outrun things in the 108 speed tier, leftovers for survivability, life orb for power. Really awesome set. I've been testing it to great success. If you manage to hit choice users they will be forced to struggle if they don't switch and you can keep subbing until they die from struggle recoil (if your opponent is that dumb).
  3. Atomos

    Atomos

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    Ok. Will playtest. I built a sandstorm team that goes fairly well with gengar. Currently testing subsplit.
  4. Nozizaki

    Nozizaki

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    Just wanted to note that on the SubSplit set you listed timid as -SpA and not -Atk.
  5. zdrup15

    zdrup15
    is a Battle Server Moderatoris a Contributor Alumnus

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    Please improve the format. I know it's not done but it's hard to read when things look so messy.

    Another nitpick: the title should be Gengar (Placeholder) till you finish the skeleton

    Onto what matters:

    The SubSplit set should have Life Orb as its only item. The boosting berries won't really help Gengar because he's too frail and dies to most priority attacks.

    You should only write the preferred nature and not what it changes so remove (- x + y).

    The order of the EVs is HP / Atk / Def / SpA / SpD / Spe
  6. JSND

    JSND

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    Gengar stand most in SS team. Gliscor is the most common SS counter and among 3 common multiple used attack on gliscor, only 2 can hit gengar since you can only fling 1 time. Subable gar is a 70 % counter to gliscor too. It can switch in on dory #1 counter and beat it so dory is kind of one of the best partner.
  7. Omicron

    Omicron
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    Yes. So please mention SubDisable as a set. It is completely viable in this metagame.

    Edit: How is Gengar outclassed by Chandelure? It is much faster, and is not weak to Stealth Rock, Spikes, or Toxic Spikes. Chandelure doesn't even get Focus Blast or Thunderbolt (although it does have Fire moves). The only true viable options for Chandelure until Shadow Tag is released is a Scarf/Specs version whereas Gengar boasts supreme versatility. Having 15 more base Special Attack does not automatically make it better than Gengar.
  8. Atomos

    Atomos

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    Will remove, will include.
  9. aussieman000

    aussieman000

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    With the mention of Evil Eye + Toxic Spikes, Venom Shock could be slashed in. Poison's viability as an attacking type aside. It may be a much worse attacking type, but it does have 195 BP when activated.
  10. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 10 Champion

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    Look at any other analysis in this forum and please make it look like that. This analysis is terribly hard to read :/
  11. Bloo

    Bloo
    is a Tutoris a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Administratoris Smogon Frontier's Pike Queenis a Past WCoP Winnerdefeated the Smogon Frontier
    Head TD

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    Atomos hasn't been on since February 14th. Locking under inactivity.
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