Gengar [QC 3/3] [GP 0/1]

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Lord Wallace

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Gengar

QC [3/3]
GP [0/1]

[OVERVIEW]

* Gengar fits the role of a strong special wallbreaker with good offensive STABs that hit most of the tier by themselves.
* It has an excellent offensive movepool to work with, most of it complementing it's high Special Attack.
* Gengar Sits at a good speed tier at 110, outspeeding a significant portion of the meta.
* Gengar also has a decent support movepool with options such as Destiny Bond and Taunt.
* It's 60/60/75 bulk is quite pitiful overall and leaves it unable to take most hits well at all, even resisted ones, and is 2HKOed by common priority attacks such as Scizor's Bullet Punch.
* Despite this, it's still worth noting that Gengar sports a few useful resistances, most importantly to Fairy, and immunities to Fighting and Normal (the latter of which makes Gengar a Rapid Spin blocker), leaving it with at least a few opportunities to switch in safely.
* Unfortunately, Gengar's typing leaves it with devastating weaknesses to Psychic, Ground, and Dark, which in turn make Gengar extremely vulnerable to Pursuit users such as Bisharp, as well as the plethora of bulky Ground types in the tier.

[SET]
name: Wallbreaker
move 1: Shadow Ball
move 2: Sludge Wave
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: Taunt / Substitute
Item: : Life Orb / Ghostium Z
Ability: Cursed Body
Nature: Timid
Evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Moves
========

* STAB Shadow Ball hits most of the tier for strong neutral damage, easily 2HKOing any offensive Pokemon that do not resist the move, including those with high natural bulk such as maximum HP Scizor and Keldeo, as well as hitting common Psychic types in the tier. Latias is OHKOed after Stealth Rocks damage by Life Orb Shadow Ball and all variants of Mew and Celebi are easily 2HKOed.
* Sludge Wave gives Gengar one of it's most valuable niches, breaking Fairies like Clefable and Primarina, OHKOing most variants of both. Sludge Wave is also notably stronger on neutral hits than Shadow Ball, for example, Life Orb Sludge Wave 2HKOes the most common variant of Amoonguss 82% of the time while Shadow Ball has no chance to 2HKO.
* Focus Blast covers the most common switch ins to Gengar's dual STAB, particularly Dark types such as Krookodile and Bisharp, and also hits Pokemon such as Empoleon and Cobalion much harder than any other move, notably OHKOing the latter with or without Life Orb.
* Taunt is in the last slot mainly to prevent walls from recovering off the damage Gengar has dealt them and potentially beating them 1v1 as a result.
* However, Substitute may also be used in the last slot to pressure offensive teams.

Set Details
========

* Life Orb gives Gengar an all around damage boost and due to its frailty Gengar doesn't miss it's HP in exchange for important 2HKOs and OHKOs mentioned above.
* However, Ghostium Z is an interesting option to net certain OHKOs and 2HKOs with Never Ending Nightmare that Life Orb Shadow Ball fails to achieve. For example, Never Ending Nightmare would guarantee the OHKO on all variants of Latias and Reuniclus (Life Orb has a substantial chance to fail to OHKO both from full), it OHKOes offensive Volcanion from full, and with Stealth Rock damage it OHKOes the common most variants of Mew, Scizor, Keldeo, Forretress, Cobalion, and Gliscor. In addition, Never Ending Nightmare followed by a Shadow Ball knocks out Careful Gliscor and the most common variants of Klefki, Swampert, Alomomola, Hippowdon, and Mega Blastoise, all targets that either always live or have a good chance to survive two Life Orb Shadow Balls.
* Standard EV spread with a Timid nature to capitalize on it's speed tier and hit as hard as possible.
* Cursed Body is a nifty ability that has a 30% chance to disable a move that Gengar is hit with for three turns, although due to Gengar's unfortunate bulk it's usually not very useful or reliable.

Usage Tips
========

* Gengar is best brought in after a pivot's slower Volt Switch or U-turn, as Gengar is so frail that even resisted hits may do a substantial amount of damage. In addition, certain Pokemon that Gengar seems to match up well against still have options to cripple it, discouraging direct switch ins. For example, Mew may carry Psychic or Knock Off, Clefable can run Thunder Wave, and Forretress can hit it hard with Gyro Ball.
* However, once switched in, Gengar is an excellent method of weakening the opponent’s team for a sweeper later on.
* Be sure to make use of Gengar's immunity to Normal to keep your hazards up against opposing Rapid Spin users.
* Taunt can be a risky move to use because most Pokemon that can recover up or use a support move on Gengar can also hit it quite hard, notable examples being Hippowdon, Latias, and Swampert. Simply be wary of when it may be favorable for an opponent to try to throw out some hazards, Defog, or fire off a Thunder Wave, usually this is when the opposing Pokemon is very healthy and out of OHKO or 2HKO range. Pokemon that are nearly knocked out or within kill range of one of your moves are much more likely to simply attack.
* Use Substitute sparingly, as it can quickly wear Gengar down when stacked with Life Orb recoil. The move is best used on a Choice locked Pokemon that can't hurt you, such as a Keldeo locked into Secret Sword, or on a predicted switch. The move is also a useful tool to avoid Sucker Punch from Pokemon like Bisharp and subsequently fire off a Focus Blast safely.

Team Options
========

* This variant of Gengar is quite versatile and is best used on offense or balance teams that otherwise struggle to break fat Pokemon, while also not being able to afford to dedicate an entire slot solely to stallbreaking.
* U-Turn or Volt-Switch users that can bring in Gengar safely make for excellent partners, most notably Scizor and Forretress.
* Pokemon typically used to clean during the late game that enjoy having bulky Pokemon removed or severely weakened such as Mega Aerodactyl, Zygarde-10%, Mega Sharpedo, Raikou, and Alakazam all make for good teammates to this Gengar.
* Stealth Rock damage is crucial to Gengar clutching out certain KOes, therefore, some of the best Gengar partners are bulky Stealth Rock setters that can also act as defensive pivots and switch into moves or Pokemon that Gengar is vulnerable to. Cobalion, Forretress, Krookodile, Hippowdon, and Swampert are all good examples. In return, Gengar helps keep the hazards they set up by Taunting Defog and switching into Rapid Spins.
* Offensive Fighting types such as Cobalion, Infernape, Mienshao, and Keldeo are natural Gengar partners for their ability to check common Pursuit users, while benefiting from Gengar spin blocking for them and harassing the bulky Fairy and Psychic types that check or counter them.

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Shadow Ball
move 2: Sludge Wave
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: Trick
Item: : Choice Scarf
Ability: Cursed Body
Nature: Timid
Evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD/ 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Moves
========

* STAB Shadow Ball is crucial for KOing some of Scarf Gengar's most common targets, specifically Alakazam and Starmie, two Pokemon that would otherwise outspeed it and KO it first. Even without any boosts Shadow Ball still manages to score 2HKOes on fast offensive threats, such as Zygarde-10%, Mega Aerodactyl (41% chance to 2HKO without Stealth Rocks, guaranteed with), and Crobat.
* Sludge Wave is slightly stronger than Shadow Ball on neutral hits and still 2HKOes common Fairy types like Clefable, Primarina, and Togekiss, as well as OHKOing Tsareena.
* Focus Blast is still your most powerful option to hit common switch ins to Gengar such as Bisharp, Krookodile, and Empoleon. In particular, this set can outspeed Scarf Hydreigon and OHKO it after Rocks with Focus Blast 93% of the time.
* Trick is the most useful option in the last slot to cripple walls that may want to switch into this variant of Gengar.
* Destiny Bond can be used as an alternative to Trick, and while it is risky to be locked into, can revenge kill healthy threats that Scarf Gengar cannot outright KO, such as Mega Aerodactyl or Raikou.

Set Details
========

* Choice Scarf allows Gengar to revenge kill with its fantastic Speed tier, being able to outspeed other common Scarf users in the tier such as Hydreigon, Keldeo, Krookodile, and Magneton.
* A standard nature and EV spread of Timid with max special attack and speed is mandatory to make use of it’s 110 Speed and hit as hard as possible.
* This set is notable for being able to check additional threats that are naturally faster than it, most importantly outspeeding Alakazam and having the luxury of outspeeding and OHKOing Starmie after switching into it's Rapid Spin.
* Cursed Body once again is Gengar's only ability which can disable a move it's hit with and can be convenient if it activates, although very situational.

Usage Tips
========

* Unlike the previous set, this set is mostly meant to clean or revenge kill opposing Scarf users in the tier as well as threats that were naturally faster than Gengar without a Choice Scarf. Be diligent about keeping up hazards or otherwise wearing down these Pokemon into kill range before sending Gengar in to clean up.
* Be wary of the opposing team before Tricking, especially other potential Scarf users.
* Also try not to reveal Scarf Gengar too early for no reason to maintain the element of surprise later on.

Team Options
========

* Scarf Gengar fits well on hyper offensive teams that otherwise struggle with opposing fast threats like Alakazam and Mega Aerodactyl.
* This Gengar even more so than the previous set appreciates substantial hazard support, in addition to Stealth Rocks consider running a Spiker like Klefki or Forretress, the latter being especially useful for giving Gengar safe switch ins with Volt Switch.
* Wallbreakers that allow Scarf Gengar to clean late game, such as Volcanion and Hydreigon, are excellent partners to this set.
* Answers to common Pursuit Pokemon are still important to keep alongside Scarf Gengar, Keldeo and Cobalion pair well.
* Sweepers that benefit from having opposing Scarfers eliminated and their hazards kept up, like Mega Aerodactyl, Alakazam, and Cobalion, also make good partners to this set.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]

Other Options
=============

* Hex can be used on a Substitute + Will-O-Wisp set somewhat viably.
* A Substitute + Pain Split stallbreaker set may also be used, but is generally too situational to function as well as the main sets.
* Energy Ball nails Swampert, 2HKOes all variants of Hippowdon, and guarantees the 2HKO on standard Suicune with a Life Orb.
* Hidden Power Fire OHKOes Scizor and Forretress after Sturdy is broken, but has little use beyond that.
* Hypnosis, while unreliable due to its accuracy, is another useful option Gengar has for it's last moveslot.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Pursuit Users**: Bisharp, Krookodile, Mega-Absol, and Mega-Aerodactyl all either outspeed or resist Gengar's STABs. Bisharp in particular gets a special mention for being able to switch into both of Gengar's STABs and OHKO it with priority Sucker Punch if it tries to go for Focus Blast afterward.

**Strong Priority** Due to its frailty, Gengar folds to strong priority users such as Scizor and most Sucker Punch users.

**Empoleon** The specially defensive set takes most of what Gengar can dish out.

**Faster Offensive Checks** Starmie, Zygarde-10%, Raikou, Alakazam, Mega-Sharpedo, and Mega Aerodactyl are all examples of Pokemon with strong STABs that can OHKO Gengar on top of outspeeding it. Raikou is the only Pokemon listed that can only 2HKO Gengar without Specs, but in turn the AV variant isn't even 2HKOed by Life Orb Sludge Wave. Mega-Aerodactyl also gets a special mention for not being OHKOed by any of Life Orb Gengar's moves even after Stealth Rock damage (a Sandstorm boost makes it capable of taking two Life Orb Shadow Balls from full) and either OHKOing back with Stone Edge or trapping it with Pursuit.

**Bulky Grounds** Swampert, Hippowdon, and Gliscor, can each take one hit and KO back with Earthquake.
 
Last edited:
So I know I'm not QC and this is still a WIP but:
  • I think that you should slash Ghostium Z with Life Orb and Focus Blast with Dazzling Gleam in the first set
  • Mention Destiny Bond and slash Focus Blast with Dazzling Gleam in the second set
  • Remove "Darks with Pursuit" and add Pursuit Trappers (Scarf Krookodile, Bisharp, Mega Aerodactyl and Mega Absol are solid Pursuit trappers)
  • It's not Zygarde 10%, it's Zygarde-10%
  • I guess that SubDisable is OO-worthy
Focus Blast is imo the best coverage option as it OHKOes other mons like Cobalion and Bisharp.
 

Lord Wallace

Hentai Connoiseur
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
So I know I'm not QC and this is still a WIP but:
  • I think that you should slash Ghostium Z with Life Orb and Focus Blast with Dazzling Gleam in the first set
  • Mention Destiny Bond and slash Focus Blast with Dazzling Gleam in the second set
  • Remove "Darks with Pursuit" and add Pursuit Trappers (Scarf Krookodile, Bisharp, Mega Aerodactyl and Mega Absol are solid Pursuit trappers)
  • It's not Zygarde 10%, it's Zygarde-10%
  • I guess that SubDisable is OO-worthy
Focus Blast is imo the best coverage option as it OHKOes other mons like Cobalion and Bisharp.
Ghostium Z has been slashed, Destiny Bond has been added to OO, and the corrections to Checks and Counters have been made. However, Focus Blast stays in OO because most Steels already get smacked by Shadow Ball and Bisharp gets 2HKOed by Gleam coming in anyway (SBall does over 40 too). Reliability of Gleam is just better imo and Focus Miss's few advantages over Gleam isn't worth a slash. Disable is bad imo so no OO for it unless QC tells me otherwise.
 
Last edited:

Hogg

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Hey,

Focus Blast should definitely be slashed with DGleam. 2HKOing Bisharp on the switch isn't sufficient when you get OHKO'd by unboosted Sucker Punch, and it's your only meaningful way of hitting Empoleon (who only takes ~35 from LO Shadow Ball).

Add Substitute as a slash over Taunt. Taunt is way better against fat teams of course, but offensive Sub Gengar is actually a nightmare against offensive teams, and also gives you your best way of not being boned by Bisharp (although obviously only if you're running Focus Blast o.o).

Mention somewhere on Scarf Gengar that it's your only way of beating offensive Starmie, since having an offensive spinblocker that can beat Starmie is actually pretty clutch.

I'm not entirely convinced Choice Specs is relevant enough to be included in OO. On the other hand, I think WoW + Hex might be (haven't tested it myself yet in this meta, but in theorymonning it seems decent). If you're not sure you can leave it out for now and we can add it in later after testing.

In C&C, change "Faster pokemon in general" to "Fast Offensive Checks," and mention that due to Gengar's poor bulk, most fast offensive threats such as Mega Aerodactyl, Starmie, Raikou and Alakazam can check Gengar. I don't think Alakazam needs its own section. Add Empoleon somewhere, since it is a great answer to any Gengar not running Focus Blast (especially now that Knock Empo is becoming more and more common). Add strong priority somewhere, as Gengar is OHKO'd by things like CB Scizor's Bullet Punch and most Sucker Punch users.

Get this done and you'll have my 1/3.
 

Lord Wallace

Hentai Connoiseur
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Hey,

Focus Blast should definitely be slashed with DGleam. 2HKOing Bisharp on the switch isn't sufficient when you get OHKO'd by unboosted Sucker Punch, and it's your only meaningful way of hitting Empoleon (who only takes ~35 from LO Shadow Ball).

Add Substitute as a slash over Taunt. Taunt is way better against fat teams of course, but offensive Sub Gengar is actually a nightmare against offensive teams, and also gives you your best way of not being boned by Bisharp (although obviously only if you're running Focus Blast o.o).

Mention somewhere on Scarf Gengar that it's your only way of beating offensive Starmie, since having an offensive spinblocker that can beat Starmie is actually pretty clutch.

I'm not entirely convinced Choice Specs is relevant enough to be included in OO. On the other hand, I think WoW + Hex might be (haven't tested it myself yet in this meta, but in theorymonning it seems decent). If you're not sure you can leave it out for now and we can add it in later after testing.

In C&C, change "Faster pokemon in general" to "Fast Offensive Checks," and mention that due to Gengar's poor bulk, most fast offensive threats such as Mega Aerodactyl, Starmie, Raikou and Alakazam can check Gengar. I don't think Alakazam needs its own section. Add Empoleon somewhere, since it is a great answer to any Gengar not running Focus Blast (especially now that Knock Empo is becoming more and more common). Add strong priority somewhere, as Gengar is OHKO'd by things like CB Scizor's Bullet Punch and most Sucker Punch users.

Get this done and you'll have my 1/3.
Done
 
hey, so are we engaged to these set options as is? cuz i feel as tho subwisp gar is plenty viable at this time. not it's best set mind u, but plenty consistent and i think a gar w/some sustainability v.a typical pursuit aero balance or what have u does have enough of a niche for it. personally i was runnin 108 hp / 12 def / 112 spa / 24 spd / 252 spe @ sub / wisp / hex / (taunt / sludge), which keeps ur sub v.clef moonblast and 0 ark, burned sciz, tho there may well be a stronger benchmark
 

Lord Wallace

Hentai Connoiseur
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
hey, so are we engaged to these set options as is? cuz i feel as tho subwisp gar is plenty viable at this time. not it's best set mind u, but plenty consistent and i think a gar w/some sustainability v.a typical pursuit aero balance or what have u does have enough of a niche for it. personally i was runnin 108 hp / 12 def / 112 spa / 24 spd / 252 spe @ sub / wisp / hex / (taunt / sludge), which keeps ur sub v.clef moonblast and 0 ark, burned sciz, tho there may well be a stronger benchmark
Yeah Hogg mentioned a similar set in his check and I'm inclined to put that in OO since it does seem more viable than SubPS at the very least
 

Manipulative

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I think FB deserves the first slash. Scarf sets need it the most as DGleam just doesn't have the power for just about anything. Krook is a huge one. Even the LO set might prefer FB since taking out things like Coba and Kyurem could be huge.

DBond probably deserves a slash on the Scarf set rather than just a mention in OO. It's not too out of the ordinary and could come out clutch, taking out something from the wide variety of things that Scarf is too weak for.
 

Lord Wallace

Hentai Connoiseur
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
I think FB deserves the first slash. Scarf sets need it the most as DGleam just doesn't have the power for just about anything. Krook is a huge one. Even the LO set might prefer FB since taking out things like Coba and Kyurem could be huge.

DBond probably deserves a slash on the Scarf set rather than just a mention in OO. It's not too out of the ordinary and could come out clutch, taking out something from the wide variety of things that Scarf is too weak for.
Done
 
i honestly think dgleam should be in oo, maybe even removed entirely. dgleam isnt ohkoing keldeo even with lo so youre better off just using swave and focus blast is crucial for things like empo and cobalion. with life orb youre ohkoing hydreigon anyway so its not like dgleam is important for anything other than like zydog lol. it just kind of sucks

this analysis needs a lotttttt of work, im gonna do other things rn but there are things that need to be fleshed out extensively
 
[OVERVIEW]

  • Relatively frail - honestly I feel like you should just change this to emphasize that its bulk is just bad overall. 60 / 65 / 75 bulk is nothing good.
  • Many useful resistances and immunities to potentially switch into - while this is true to an extent, its typing also leaves it open to a lot of downsides. it gets easily revenge killed, pursuit trapped by things like aerodactyl, absol, and scarf krookodile, and the levitate nerf fucks it too considering how common ground types are in the tier.
[SET - WALLBREAKER]
  • mention what shadow ball actually hits, as in specific pokemon
  • list sludge wave before focus blast imo. the fighting coverage is certainly important but breaking fairies is one of gengars strongest points, and is stronger than sball which is good for neutral coverage.
  • Life Orb is necessary to threaten bulky Pokemon Gengar wants to harass while not being locked into a move - wat even is this. theres no choice scarf or specs mention in here or anything like that so i dont know why theres mention of bein locked in a move. just mention that it gives it a substantial boost in power, usual stuff.
  • what offensive pokemon does ghostium actually ko? i dont really know so im just wondering (not meant to be passive aggressive). also mention what cursed body does (dont mention the ability nerf here since its not relevant)
  • * Gengar excels at switching into and taking advantage of weak support Pokemon
    * Once switched in, Gengar is an excellent method of weakening the opponent’s team for a sweeper
    * Take advantage of Gengar’s immunities and resistances for extra opportunities to fire off an attack, especially against more offensive teams -
    the first bullet point isnt really accurate. it cant switch into clefable or klefki because it gets crippled by twave (im p sure gengar outruns clef anyway after para but its still not exactly optimal for it), cant switch into forre since it almost always gets 2hkod by gyro ball (it definitely will be after a round of lo recoil from gar), knock or psych from mew dicks it, gliscor / hippo / pert ko it with eq and can tank a hit. i guess theres stuff like amoon and tsareena but even then its still not reliable. the second and third bullet points are really similar and can be condensed into one point..also in usage tips mention that it can be pivoted in from pokemon like zor, forre, hydrei, etc
  • * Always use Taunt on Pokemon capable of recovery - this also just sounds really awkward. gliscor is either in ko range or is gonna eq anyway, mew lives one and is gonna knock, youre only using it on clef if its boosted up by a good margin and u have something else to rk it...its better for preventing set up, and to a lesser extent hazards / defog.
  • * Best used on offense or balance teams that otherwise struggle to break fat Pokemon - this is more of a team options kind of thing, i would move that over there.
  • for team options as a whole, all of it should have a lot more meat to it, mention specific pokemon and all that jazz. the aformentioned pivots are good partners as well. id also make a hazard section in there since a lot of gengars kos are easier to achieve with them and gengar can spinblock / prevent defog with taunt.
[SET - CHOICE SCARF]

  • same issues with the moves here, u need to get into specifics.
  • id turn dbond into just a mention in moves, trick is more consistent / useful in most situations. mention specifically that dbond is good for mega aero.
  • cursed body explanation in set details as well
  • * Outspeeds and KOes the most relevant offensive Rapid Spin user in the tier, Starmie - this isnt a bad point, but a little awkward and out of place. what i would do is remove that point and add to the first one that it outspeeds pokemon that it wouldnt otherwise, like it and alakazam
  • * Fits well on hyper offensive teams that otherwise struggle with opposing fast threats like Alakazam and Mega Aerodactyl - move this to team options
  • add forretress to hazard section of team options, mention that it can pivot into gengar with volt switch
  • mega aero is not a frail sweeper, just make it a general section for sweepers. id add cobalion to this section among other things
[OTHER OPTIONS]

  • get rid of most of the coverage options, id only keep like energy ball and hp fire, all the others arent that useful
  • add hypnosis, unreliable but sleep is a pain to most geng switchins
[C&C]

  • add mega absol to pursuit
  • just put zyg under faster offensive checks, no reason to give it its own section
  • for bulky grounds, put the examples after the actual bullet points
basically just make this more concise, fix the grammar and all that. a lot of work but necessary for this i think
 

Lord Wallace

Hentai Connoiseur
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
[OVERVIEW]

  • Relatively frail - honestly I feel like you should just change this to emphasize that its bulk is just bad overall. 60 / 65 / 75 bulk is nothing good.
  • Many useful resistances and immunities to potentially switch into - while this is true to an extent, its typing also leaves it open to a lot of downsides. it gets easily revenge killed, pursuit trapped by things like aerodactyl, absol, and scarf krookodile, and the levitate nerf fucks it too considering how common ground types are in the tier.
[SET - WALLBREAKER]
  • mention what shadow ball actually hits, as in specific pokemon
  • list sludge wave before focus blast imo. the fighting coverage is certainly important but breaking fairies is one of gengars strongest points, and is stronger than sball which is good for neutral coverage.
  • Life Orb is necessary to threaten bulky Pokemon Gengar wants to harass while not being locked into a move - wat even is this. theres no choice scarf or specs mention in here or anything like that so i dont know why theres mention of bein locked in a move. just mention that it gives it a substantial boost in power, usual stuff.
  • what offensive pokemon does ghostium actually ko? i dont really know so im just wondering (not meant to be passive aggressive). also mention what cursed body does (dont mention the ability nerf here since its not relevant)
  • * Gengar excels at switching into and taking advantage of weak support Pokemon
    * Once switched in, Gengar is an excellent method of weakening the opponent’s team for a sweeper
    * Take advantage of Gengar’s immunities and resistances for extra opportunities to fire off an attack, especially against more offensive teams -
    the first bullet point isnt really accurate. it cant switch into clefable or klefki because it gets crippled by twave (im p sure gengar outruns clef anyway after para but its still not exactly optimal for it), cant switch into forre since it almost always gets 2hkod by gyro ball (it definitely will be after a round of lo recoil from gar), knock or psych from mew dicks it, gliscor / hippo / pert ko it with eq and can tank a hit. i guess theres stuff like amoon and tsareena but even then its still not reliable. the second and third bullet points are really similar and can be condensed into one point..also in usage tips mention that it can be pivoted in from pokemon like zor, forre, hydrei, etc
  • * Always use Taunt on Pokemon capable of recovery - this also just sounds really awkward. gliscor is either in ko range or is gonna eq anyway, mew lives one and is gonna knock, youre only using it on clef if its boosted up by a good margin and u have something else to rk it...its better for preventing set up, and to a lesser extent hazards / defog.
  • * Best used on offense or balance teams that otherwise struggle to break fat Pokemon - this is more of a team options kind of thing, i would move that over there.
  • for team options as a whole, all of it should have a lot more meat to it, mention specific pokemon and all that jazz. the aformentioned pivots are good partners as well. id also make a hazard section in there since a lot of gengars kos are easier to achieve with them and gengar can spinblock / prevent defog with taunt.
[SET - CHOICE SCARF]

  • same issues with the moves here, u need to get into specifics.
  • id turn dbond into just a mention in moves, trick is more consistent / useful in most situations. mention specifically that dbond is good for mega aero.
  • cursed body explanation in set details as well
  • * Outspeeds and KOes the most relevant offensive Rapid Spin user in the tier, Starmie - this isnt a bad point, but a little awkward and out of place. what i would do is remove that point and add to the first one that it outspeeds pokemon that it wouldnt otherwise, like it and alakazam
  • * Fits well on hyper offensive teams that otherwise struggle with opposing fast threats like Alakazam and Mega Aerodactyl - move this to team options
  • add forretress to hazard section of team options, mention that it can pivot into gengar with volt switch
  • mega aero is not a frail sweeper, just make it a general section for sweepers. id add cobalion to this section among other things
[OTHER OPTIONS]

  • get rid of most of the coverage options, id only keep like energy ball and hp fire, all the others arent that useful
  • add hypnosis, unreliable but sleep is a pain to most geng switchins
[C&C]

  • add mega absol to pursuit
  • just put zyg under faster offensive checks, no reason to give it its own section
  • for bulky grounds, put the examples after the actual bullet points
basically just make this more concise, fix the grammar and all that. a lot of work but necessary for this i think
bop
 
the wording here is p awk, especially in c&c. you don't start things off with such as, you can use them in the sentence tho.

make a separate bullet point for sub in the lo set.

go into more detail about the faster offensive checks in c&c.

give examples of mons that appreciate gengars wallbreaking in the lo set.

this looks much better, qc 2/3
 
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Eyan

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Overview:
  • Regarding Gengar's bulk, I'd like it to be mentioned that it also leaves Gengar vulnerable to various forms of priority such as Bullet Punch from Scizor, which even with no investment has a chance to 2HKO.
  • No need to mention that Cursed Body is Gengar's new ability. Analyses shouldn't be written in relation to past gens. Just state how its typing leaves it weak to the types you mentioned, and it's fine.
Wallbreaker set

Usage tips:
  • The first point would do well to be more specific. What are some of these support Pokemon that would typically be carrying Knock Off / Thunder Wave that Gengar has to watch our for switching into? What Pokemon should Gengar be switching into then?
  • I'd rephrase the second point. Right now, the idea of switching into one of the types Gengar is immune to seems to be tied to already having switched in. It also sounds like Gengar is switching into a type immunity, not the type itself. This is mostly GP than QC, but the meaning itself is still pretty hard to decipher if you're not familiar with the meta.
  • "Taunt can be a risky move to use because most Pokemon that can recover up or use a support move on Gengar can probably also hit it quite hard" give examples and remove "probably".
  • Give some usage tips regarding Substitute, since that's a move on Gengar that a lot of new players don't know how to utilise properly imo, such as
    • Be careful of when to use Substitute esp in conjunction with Life Orb since it wears Gengar down fast.
    • Using Substitute to play around stuff like Sucker Punch from Bisharp.
    • Taking advantage of Choice-locked Pokemon such as Scarf Keldeo locked into Secret Sword to get up a free Substitute.
Choice Scarf set

Set Details:
  • Merge the 3rd point with the 1st point since both are basically just talking about how Choice Scarf allows Gengar to outspeed these Pokemon. The repetition isn't necessary.
Other stuff that you should clean up before GP:
  • The EVs for Special Defense should always be written as SpD and likewise for Speed, it should be Spe.
  • Make sure the sentences in your overview and full sentences before pushing for GP
  • Space out each point of your C&C section.
Idk, try to keep all your analyses consistent with GP standards, a lot of this is Smogon English that takes a minute to familiarise with.

QC 3/3 afterwards.
 

Lord Wallace

Hentai Connoiseur
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Overview:
  • Regarding Gengar's bulk, I'd like it to be mentioned that it also leaves Gengar vulnerable to various forms of priority such as Bullet Punch from Scizor, which even with no investment has a chance to 2HKO.
  • No need to mention that Cursed Body is Gengar's new ability. Analyses shouldn't be written in relation to past gens. Just state how its typing leaves it weak to the types you mentioned, and it's fine.
Wallbreaker set

Usage tips:
  • The first point would do well to be more specific. What are some of these support Pokemon that would typically be carrying Knock Off / Thunder Wave that Gengar has to watch our for switching into? What Pokemon should Gengar be switching into then?
  • I'd rephrase the second point. Right now, the idea of switching into one of the types Gengar is immune to seems to be tied to already having switched in. It also sounds like Gengar is switching into a type immunity, not the type itself. This is mostly GP than QC, but the meaning itself is still pretty hard to decipher if you're not familiar with the meta.
  • "Taunt can be a risky move to use because most Pokemon that can recover up or use a support move on Gengar can probably also hit it quite hard" give examples and remove "probably".
  • Give some usage tips regarding Substitute, since that's a move on Gengar that a lot of new players don't know how to utilise properly imo, such as
    • Be careful of when to use Substitute esp in conjunction with Life Orb since it wears Gengar down fast.
    • Using Substitute to play around stuff like Sucker Punch from Bisharp.
    • Taking advantage of Choice-locked Pokemon such as Scarf Keldeo locked into Secret Sword to get up a free Substitute.
Choice Scarf set

Set Details:
  • Merge the 3rd point with the 1st point since both are basically just talking about how Choice Scarf allows Gengar to outspeed these Pokemon. The repetition isn't necessary.
Other stuff that you should clean up before GP:
  • The EVs for Special Defense should always be written as SpD and likewise for Speed, it should be Spe.
  • Make sure the sentences in your overview and full sentences before pushing for GP
  • Space out each point of your C&C section.
Idk, try to keep all your analyses consistent with GP standards, a lot of this is Smogon English that takes a minute to familiarise with.

QC 3/3 afterwards.
Done, ready for GP
 
Last edited:

Fireflame

Silksong when
is a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Social Media Contributor Alumnus
Remove Add Comments (AC)= add comma (RC)= remove comma (AH)= add hyphen (RH)= remove hyphen
Just be sure to change all slanted apostrophes ( ’ ) to straight ones ( ' )

[OVERVIEW]

* Gengar fits the role of a strong special wallbreaker with good offensive STABs STAB moves that hit most of the tier by themselves (replace this with neutrally, super effectively, or whatever you were trying to express).
* It has an excellent offensive movepool to work with, most of it complementing it's high Special Attack.
* Gengar sits at a good Speed tier at of 110, outspeeding a significant portion of the metagame.
* Gengar also has a decent support movepool with options such as Destiny Bond and Taunt.
* It's 60/60/75 bulk is quite pitiful overall and leaves it unable to take most hits well at all, even resisted ones, and is 2HKOed by common priority attacks such as Scizor's Bullet Punch. (Flipping the order of these two bullets improves flow)
* Despite this,(RC) it's still It's worth noting that Gengar sports a few useful resistances, most importantly to Fairy, and immunities to Fighting and Normal,(AC) the latter of which makes Gengar a Spinblocker (the latter of which makes Gengar a Rapid Spin blocker), leaving it with at least a few opportunities to switch in safely.
* Despite this,(AC) it's 60 / 60 / 75 bulk is quite pitiful overall and leaves it unable to take most hits at all,(AC) even resisted ones,(AC) and it is 2HKOed by common priority attacks such as Scizor's Bullet Punch.
* Unfortunately, Gengar's typing leaves it with devastating weaknesses to Psychic, Ground, and Dark, which in turn make Gengar extremely vulnerable to Pursuit users such as Bisharp, as well as the plethora of bulky Ground-(AH)types in the tier.

[SET]
name: Wallbreaker
move 1: Shadow Ball
move 2: Sludge Wave
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: Taunt / Substitute
Item: : Life Orb / Ghostium Z
Ability: Cursed Body
Nature: Timid
Evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Moves
========

* STAB Shadow Ball hits most of the tier for strong neutral damage, easily 2HKOing any offensive Pokemon that do not resist the move, including those with high natural bulk such as maximum HP Scizor and Keldeo, as well as hitting common Psychic types in the tier. Latias is OHKOed after Stealth Rocks Rock damage by Life Orb Shadow Ball and all variants of Mew and Celebi are easily 2HKOed.
* Sludge Wave gives Gengar one of it's most valuable niches (this niche wasn't stated in the overview so please put it somewhere in there), breaking Fairies Fairy-types like Clefable and Primarina, OHKOing most variants of both. Sludge Wave is also notably stronger on neutral hits than Shadow Ball;(add semicolon),(RC) for example, Life Orb Sludge Wave 2HKOes the most common variant of Amoonguss 82% of the time,(AC) while Shadow Ball has no chance to 2HKO.
* Focus Blast covers the most common switch-(AH)ins to Gengar's dual STAB combination, particularly Dark types such as Krookodile and Bisharp, and it also hits Pokemon such as Empoleon and Cobalion much harder than any other move, notably OHKOing the latter with or without Life Orb. (If it OHKOes without then it will OHKO with it as well)
* Taunt is in the last moveslot mainly to prevent walls from recovering off the damage Gengar has dealt them and potentially beating them 1v1 one-on-one as a result.
* However, Substitute may also be used in the last slot to pressure offensive teams.

Set Details
========

* Life Orb gives Gengar an all around damage boost,(AC) and due to its frailty,(AC) Gengar doesn't miss it's its HP in exchange for important 2HKOs and OHKOs mentioned above.
* However, Ghostium Z is an interesting option to net certain OHKOs and 2HKOs with Never Ending Nightmare that Life Orb Shadow Ball fails to achieve. For example, Never Ending Nightmare would guarantee the OHKO on all variants of Latias and Reuniclus (Life Orb has a substantial chance to fail to OHKO both from full HP), it OHKOes offensive Volcanion from full HP, and with Stealth Rock damage it OHKOes the most common most variants of Mew, Scizor, Keldeo, Forretress, Cobalion, and Gliscor. In addition, Never Ending Nightmare followed by a Shadow Ball knocks out Careful Gliscor and the most common variants of Klefki, Swampert, Alomomola, Hippowdon, and Mega Blastoise, all targets that either always live or have a good chance to survive two Life Orb Shadow Balls.
* A standard EV spread with a Timid nature is used to capitalize on it's its Speed tier and hit as hard as possible.
* Cursed Body is a nifty ability that has a 30% chance to disable a move that Gengar is hit with for three turns, although due to Gengar's unfortunate bulk it's usually not very useful or reliable.

Usage Tips
========

* Gengar is best brought in after a pivot's slower Volt Switch or U-turn, as Gengar is so frail that even resisted hits may do a substantial amount of damage. In addition, certain Pokemon that Gengar seems to match up well against still have options to cripple it, discouraging direct switch ins;(add semicolon) for.(remove period) For example, Mew may carry Psychic or Knock Off, Clefable can run Thunder Wave, and Forretress can hit it hard with Gyro Ball.
* However, once switched in, Gengar is an excellent method of weakening the opponent’s team for a sweeper later on.
* Be sure to make use of Gengar's immunity to Normal to keep your entry hazards up against opposing Rapid Spin users.
* Taunt can be a risky move to use because most Pokemon that can recover up or use a support move on Gengar can also hit it quite hard, notable examples being notably Hippowdon, Latias, and Swampert. Simply be wary of when it may be favorable for an opponent to try to throw out set up some hazards, use Defog, or fire off a Thunder Wave;(add semicolon),(RC) usually this is when the opposing Pokemon is very healthy and out of OHKO or 2HKO range. Pokemon that are nearly knocked out or within kill range of one of your moves are much more likely to simply attack.
* Use Substitute sparingly, as it can quickly wear Gengar down when stacked with Life Orb recoil. The move is best used on a Choice-(AH)locked Pokemon that can't hurt you Gengar, such as a Keldeo locked into Secret Sword, or on a predicted switch. The move is also a useful tool to avoid Sucker Punch from Pokemon like Bisharp and subsequently fire off a Focus Blast safely.

Team Options
========

* This variant of Gengar is quite versatile and is best used on offense or balance teams that otherwise struggle to break fat bulky Pokemon,(RC) while also not being able to afford to dedicate an entire slot Pokemon solely to stallbreaking.
* U-turn or Volt-(RH)Switch users that can bring in Gengar safely make for excellent partners, most notably Scizor and Forretress.
* Pokemon typically used to clean during the late-(AH)game that enjoy having bulky Pokemon removed or severely weakened such as Mega Aerodactyl, Zygarde-10%, Mega Sharpedo, Raikou, and Alakazam all make for good teammates to this Gengar.
* Stealth Rock damage is crucial to Gengar clutching out certain KOs;(add semicolon) KOes,(RC) therefore, some of the best Gengar partners are bulky Stealth Rock setters that can also act as defensive pivots and switch into moves or Pokemon that Gengar is vulnerable to. Cobalion, Forretress, Krookodile, Hippowdon, and Swampert are all good examples. In return, Gengar helps keep the hazards they set up by Taunting using Taunt against Defog and switching into Rapid Spins.
* Offensive Fighting-(AH)types such as Cobalion, Infernape, Mienshao, and Keldeo are natural Gengar partners for their ability to check common Pursuit users, while benefiting they benefit from Gengar spin blocking spinblocking for them and harassing damaging the bulky Fairy-(AH) and Psychic-(AH)types that check or counter them.

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Shadow Ball
move 2: Sludge Wave
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: Trick
Item: :(remove the random colon; make sure to space this correctly) Choice Scarf
Ability: Cursed Body
Nature: Timid
Evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Moves
========

* STAB Shadow Ball is crucial for KOing some of Choice Scarf Gengar's most common targets, specifically Alakazam and Starmie, two Pokemon that would otherwise outspeed it and KO it first. Even without any boosts,(AC) Shadow Ball still manages to score 2HKOes 2HKOs on fast offensive threats, such as Zygarde-10%, Mega Aerodactyl (41% chance to 2HKO without Stealth Rocks Rock, but guaranteed with), and Crobat.
* Sludge Wave is slightly stronger than Shadow Ball on neutral hits and still 2HKOes common Fairy-(AH)types like Clefable, Primarina, and Togekiss, as well as OHKOing Tsareena.
* Focus Blast is still your Gengar's most powerful option to hit common switch-(AH)ins to Gengar it such as Bisharp, Krookodile, and Empoleon;(add semicolon) in.(remove period) In particular, this set can outspeed Choice Scarf Hydreigon and OHKO it after Rocks Stealth Rock with Focus Blast 93% of the time.
* Trick is the most useful option in the last moveslot to cripple walls that may want to switch into this variant of Gengar.
* Destiny Bond can be used as an alternative to Trick, and while it is risky to be locked into, it can revenge kill healthy threats that Choice Scarf Gengar cannot outright KO, such as Mega Aerodactyl or and Raikou.

Set Details
========

* Choice Scarf allows Gengar to revenge kill threats with its fantastic Speed tier, being able to outspeed other common Choice Scarf users in the tier such as Hydreigon, Keldeo, Krookodile, and Magneton.
* A standard nature and EV spread of Timid with maximum Special Attack and Speed and a Timid nature is mandatory to make use of it’s its base 110 Speed and to hit as hard as possible.
* This set is notable for being able to check additional threats that are naturally faster than it, most importantly outspeeding Alakazam and having the luxury of outspeeding and OHKOing Starmie after switching into it's its Rapid Spin.
* Cursed Body once again is Gengar's only ability,(AC) which can disable a move it's hit with and can be convenient if it activates, although it is very situational.

Usage Tips
========

* Unlike the previous set,(RC) this This Gengar set (no cross-referencing) is mostly meant to clean or and revenge kill opposing Choice Scarf users in the tier as well as threats that were naturally faster than Gengar without a Choice Scarf. Be diligent about keeping up entry hazards or otherwise and wearing down these Pokemon into kill range before sending Gengar in to clean up.
* Be wary of the opposing team before Tricking using Trick, especially other potential Choice Scarf users.
* Also try not to reveal Choice Scarf Gengar too early for no reason in order to maintain the element of surprise later on.

Team Options
========

* Choice Scarf Gengar fits well on hyper offensive teams that otherwise struggle with opposing fast threats like Alakazam and Mega Aerodactyl.
* This Gengar even more so than the previous set appreciates substantial entry hazard support;(add semicolon),(RC) in addition to Stealth Rocks Rock,(AC) consider running a Spiker like Klefki or Forretress, the latter being especially useful for giving Gengar safe switch ins with Volt Switch.
* Wallbreakers that allow Choice Scarf Gengar to clean late-(AH)game, such as Volcanion and Hydreigon, are excellent partners to for this set.
* Answers to common Pursuit Pokemon are still important to keep alongside Choice Scarf Gengar;(adds semicolon),(RC) Keldeo and Cobalion pair well for this role.
* Sweepers that benefit from having opposing Scarfers Choice Scarf users eliminated and their hazards kept up, like Mega Aerodactyl, Alakazam, and Cobalion, also make good partners to this set.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]

Other Options
=============

* Hex can be used on a Substitute + Will-O-Wisp set somewhat viably.
* A Substitute + Pain Split stallbreaker set may also be used, but it is generally too situational to function as well as the main sets.
* Energy Ball nails Swampert, 2HKOes all variants of Hippowdon, and guarantees the 2HKO on standard Suicune with a Life Orb.
* Hidden Power Fire OHKOes Scizor and Forretress after Sturdy is broken,(RC) but has little use beyond that.
* Hypnosis, while unreliable due to its accuracy, is another useful option Gengar has for it's its last moveslot.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Pursuit Users**: Bisharp, Krookodile, Mega-(RH)Absol, and Mega-(RH)Aerodactyl all either outspeed Gengar or resist its STAB moves Gengar's STABs. Bisharp in particular gets a special mention for being able to switch into both of Gengar's STABs STAB moves and OHKO it with priority Sucker Punch if it tries to go for Focus Blast afterward.

**Strong Priority**:(colon) Due to its frailty, Gengar folds to strong priority users such as Scizor and most Sucker Punch users.

**Empoleon**:(colon) The Specially defensive Empoleon set takes most of what Gengar can dish out. (mention how it is crippled by Focus Blast: 52 SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 188-222 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- 81.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery)

**Faster Offensive Checks**:(colon) Starmie, Zygarde-10%, Raikou, Alakazam, Mega-(RH)Sharpedo, and Mega Aerodactyl are all examples of Pokemon with strong STABs STAB moves that can OHKO Gengar on top of outspeeding it. Raikou is the only Pokemon listed that can only 2HKO Gengar without Choice Specs, but in turn the AV Assault Vest variant isn't even 2HKOed by Life Orb Sludge Wave. Mega-(RH)Aerodactyl also gets a special mention for not being OHKOed by any of Life Orb Gengar's moves even after Stealth Rock damage (a Sandstorm boost makes it capable of taking two Life Orb Shadow Balls from full HP) and can either OHKOing OHKO Gengar back with Stone Edge or trapping trap it with Pursuit.

**Bulky Grounds Ground-types**:(colon) Swampert, Hippowdon, and Gliscor,(RC) can each take one hit and KO Gengar back with Earthquake.
GP 1/1
 
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