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Gengar (Update [Done])

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Moo, Sep 26, 2010.

  1. Moo

    Moo Professor
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    [​IMG]
    Gengar

    Taking over this for G80, credit to him
    and Earthworm
    and GP

    [Overview]

    <p>Gengar is a very powerful threat due to its great stats and diversity. Its vast movepool is aided by high Special Attack, and Speed. Though held back by its awful defenses, Gengar will often have multiple opportunities to safely switch in thanks to its immunity to Ground-, Fighting-, and Normal-type attacks. Because of its versatility and great coverage, Gengar is very difficult to properly counter, once it is on the offensive. Gengar also has a wide variety of support moves at its disposal, ranging from status moves such as Will-O-Wisp and Hypnosis to Destiny Bond and Perish Song. Gengar can easily clean up many Pokemon late-game when almost everything has been weakened and is in KO range of its attacks.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Status
    move 1: Thunderbolt
    move 2: Ice Punch
    move 3: Giga Drain / Will-O-Wisp
    move 4: Hypnosis / Will-O-Wisp / Destiny Bond / Explosion / Taunt
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 172 HP / 148 SpA / 188 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set combines Gengar's great coverage with a variety of support moves to cripple Pokemon that normally switch in against it. Thunderbolt and Ice Punch create a pseudo BoltBeam combination, which hits a lot of things that aren't dedicated special walls very hard. Giga Drain is a great attack to nail Swampert, which can cause Gengar some problems due to its bulk and immunity to Thunderbolt. However, Will-O-Wisp can be used in its place, as Giga Drain has little use outside of KOing Swampert (Swampert is crippled by Will-O-Wisp anyway). Will-O-Wisp cripples physical attackers such as Tyranitar and Metagross, which Gengar is otherwise virtually useless against. A myriad of choices are available in the last slot. Hypnosis is the preferred option, as it allows Gengar to put one Pokemon to sleep, essentially rendering it useless. Its terrible accuracy is the main drawback, though. You can use both Will-O-Wisp and Giga Drain if you wish, although only one of the two is necessary. Destiny Bond is very useful in the last slot, allowing Gengar to kill a Pokemon if it is taken down. It can also give Gengar free turns in which it can attack, attempt to burn a Pokemon, or switch for free, as not many players will attack a Gengar that has used Destiny Bond. Explosion can be used, allowing Gengar to go out with a bang, which is particularly useful against Blissey and Snorlax, both of whom wall Gengar.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>188 Speed EVs with a Timid nature is used because Gengar should always aim to outrun Pokemon such as Jolly Flygon, Timid Jirachi, and Tyranitar with one Dragon Dance. EVs are invested into the HP stat so Gengar isn't killed by a gentle breeze. 172 HP allows Gengar to always survive a Choice Band Metagross's Meteor Mash after it has been burned. The remaining EVs are invested in Special Attack to pump up Gengar's damage output. Make sure to use a Hasty nature and move the HP EVs to Attack if Explosion is used; this will let it do 80-90% to both Snorlax and Blissey, KOing them after prior damage.</p>

    <p>Pokemon such as Celebi and Blissey can be troublesome for Gengar. Blissey takes pathetic damage from Gengar's attacks, can cripple Gengar with Thunder Wave, as well as heal any burned or sleeping teammates with Aromatherapy. Celebi is 3HKOed by Ice Punch, but can Recover off damage, set up with Calm Mind, and OHKO Gengar with Psychic. Neither of these Pokemon are crippled by status due to Natural Cure. Starmie and Raikou can easily switch in on Ice Punch and Thunderbolt respectively, and outspeed and KO Gengar. Adamant Dugtrio can trap and kill all of the aforementioned Pokemon, as well as Magneton, which is the only Pokemon that resists all of Gengar's attacks.</p>

    <p>Taunt is an unexpected move that can turn the tables on some of Gengar's most common counters, such as Blissey, Snorlax, Regice, and Zapdos. Gengar should attempt to burn these Pokemon as they switch in, then when they attempt to use a recovery or status move, Taunt them to prevent it, and switch to an appropriate counter or attempt to finish them off. The effectiveness of this strategy is a lot greater if you have Spikes support and sandstorm to wear down the aforementioned Pokemon's HP. Destiny Bond can also be used in conjunction with Taunt to force the opponent to use an attacking move, taking the foe down when Gengar is KOed.</p>

    [SET]
    name: McIceGar
    move 1: Thunderbolt
    move 2: Ice Punch
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Focus Punch
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Hasty
    evs: 184 Atk / 136 SpA / 188 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This famous set from the earlier days of Advance has since declined in usage, but still has impressive coverage. The idea of the set is to use Substitute and Focus Punch to beat the Pokemon that cause purely special Gengar variants trouble: Blissey, Snorlax, and Regice. Each of the aforementioned Pokemon takes around 50% from a Focus Punch. Blissey cannot touch Gengar without Ice Beam, as Gengar is immune to Seismic Toss, and Thunder Wave is blocked by Substitute. The last two moveslots are occupied by Thunderbolt and Ice Punch, recreating the BoltBeam combination, giving Gengar great coverage alongside Focus Punch. Thunderbolt can nail the common bulky Water-types in the tier: Vaporeon, Suicune, and Gyarados, as well as Skarmory. Ice Punch puts a dent in Celebi and Zapdos, provided they are hit with it as they switch in. It can also OHKO Dragon-type Pokemon such as Flygon, Salamence, and Dragonite.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>188 Speed EVs with a Hasty nature allow Gengar to outrun Pokemon with base 100 Speed, such as Flygon and Jirachi, as well as Tyranitar after a Dragon Dance. 184 EVs in Attack will allow Gengar to 2HKO (49.9% - 59%) the standard Blissey most of the time with Focus Punch. Snorlax is also 2HKOed, and Tyranitar OHKOed. The remaining EVs are put into Gengar’s Special Attack stat to boost the damage output of Ice Punch and Thunderbolt.</p>

    <p>The main issue with this set is its inability to threaten common Pokemon such as Jirachi and Swampert. Once the opponent figures out that Gengar doesn't pack Hypnosis, Will-O-Wisp, or Giga Drain, they can deal with it easily. Dugtrio can trap and KO Jirachi with Earthquake, as well as Starmie and Raikou, which can be a problem for Gengar. It can also pick off Blissey after it has been weakened by Focus Punch.</p>

    [SET]
    name: All Out Attacker
    move 1: Thunderbolt
    move 2: Ice Punch
    move 3: Giga Drain
    move 4: Fire Punch
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Gengar can make an excellent all out attacker due to its high Speed and Special Attack stats as well as its great movepool. This set sacrifices support moves such as Will-O-Wisp and Hypnosis, gaining the widest possible coverage against common Pokemon in return. This is mostly an anti-metagame set that is popular against the modern play-off-resistances team. The combination of Thunderbolt, Ice Punch, and Fire Punch provide perfect neutral coverage (barring Lanturn, which is uncommon). Thunderbolt hits Skarmory and bulky Water-types such as Gyarados, Suicune, and Vaporeon, whereas Ice Punch nails Zapdos and Celebi for around 40%, and OHKOes common Dragon-type Pokemon. Giga Drain nails Swampert, who is immune to Thunderbolt, sponges Ice Punch with ease, and can 2HKO Gengar with Hydro Pump. Since Swampert is a common switch-in to Gengar, the opponent will have trouble against this set if Swampert is their only reliable switch in to it. Fire Punch is used in the last moveslot, and allows Gengar to KO Forretress, Scizor, and 2HKO standard Jirachi, Magneton and Metagross, the former after Spikes damage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread is very straightforward: Gengar's Speed is maximized to outpace Pokemon with base 100 Speed, as well opposing Gengar without maximum Speed. Gengar's Special Attack is also maximized to ensure a high damage output. A Timid nature is advised, making Gengar as fast as possible. A Modest nature can be used to increase Gengar's power even further, but Gengar will be outpaced by opposing Gengar with a Timid nature.</p>

    <p>Due to Gengar's lack of Will-O-Wisp, Tyranitar can be a problem, as it doesn't take much from Gengar's attacks and has a favorable match-up. Starmie can switch in on a predicted Ice Punch or Fire Punch, then outspeed and KO it with Psychic. Gengar is not KOed by any of its other attacks and can finish it off with Thunderbolt if it doesn't carry Psychic. Raikou is also problematic as it outspeeds Gengar and has access to Calm Mind. As such, Dugtrio makes a reliable teammate, because it can eliminate Raikou, and Tyranitar after one Dragon Dance boost. Furthermore, defensive variants of Zapdos and Celebi cause problems for Gengar, taking about 40% from Gengar's super effective moves, while doing serious damage to Gengar with Thunderbolt and Psychic, respectively. Tyranitar can be used to assist against Zapdos, while Dugtrio can switch in on a recovering Celebi and 2HKO with Hidden Power Bug.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Perish Trapper
    move 1: Mean Look
    move 2: Perish Song
    move 3: Substitute / Taunt
    move 4: Destiny Bond / Protect / Hypnosis
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 80 SpD / 80 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Perish Trapping Gengar is often unexpected and can turn the tables on typical Gengar counters. The idea of the set is to use Mean Look as a Gengar counter such as Blissey or Snorlax switches in and trap it, then use Perish Song to KO the Pokemon. Substitute effectively provides free turns at the cost of a quarter of Gengar's HP. After two turns, Gengar switches to an appropriate switch-in, scoring a free KO while the opposing Pokemon is trapped. Destiny Bond is used in the final moveslot, allowing Gengar to take out another Pokemon after trapping and KOing something. It should only be used as a last resort, such as when Gengar has lost most of its HP by making Substitutes. Taunt can be used instead of Substitute to stop any attempts at crippling Gengar with status moves or phazing it, but Protect must be used in the final moveslot as Gengar needs free turns to pull off the strategy. Hypnosis is an alternative, and can put the trapped Pokemon to sleep, rendering it useless as Perish Song takes effect. However, its low accuracy makes it a risky option.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>This bulky EV spread allows you to survive dangerous moves such as Celebi's Psychic or Choice Band Salamence's Hidden Power Flying, while Gengar is vulnerable as it sets up Perish Song. With 80 Speed EVs and a Timid nature, Gengar has over 300 Speed, allowing it to outspeed a vast number of Pokemon and to use Substitute to provide free turns for itself. Its Speed stat is not maximized though, because bulk is its main priority on this set.</p>

    <p>For the purposes of trapping, Dugtrio makes an excellent teammate because of its Arena Trap ability. Dugtrio can reliably trap and KO Pokemon with Perish Song if Gengar is KOed before Perish Song has taken effect. Dugtrio will need Substitute or Protect in its movepool, though, which is otherwise a bit gimmicky. Dugtrio can also assist against Starmie, Raikou, and Dragon Dance Tyranitar, which are problematic for Gengar.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Choice Band Gengar is a gimmicky option, but an option nonetheless, as it has two strong physical STAB attacks in Sludge Bomb and Shadow Ball. This set can do serious damage to Pokemon that normally counter Gengar, such as Blissey and Snorlax with Focus Punch, and Celebi with Sludge Bomb. Once the opponent discovers the set, however, Gengar can be easily countered and will often end up resorting to Explosion quite quickly. Shadow Ball used to be a common move for Celebi and other Gengar. Sludge Bomb is the only other physical move worth using on Gengar. It dents Blissey for about 25-30% and has a chance to poison it. This will force Blissey to resort to use Softboiled, which is when Gengar can hit it with Focus Punch, which 2HKOes. Gengar can run a mixed set with both special and physical attacks, but this would overall be less effective. This set would run into serious issues with Metagross and Jirachi, and is generally not favorable in this metagame. Taunt is an option to prevent Snorlax from using Rest or Blissey from using Softboiled. This becomes a decent option with some HP EVs and Spikes support.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Blissey can come in on the most popular Gengar set with ease. Special attacks do virtually nothing to it, and Natural Cure makes status moves mostly ineffective. Dugtrio can switch in on a sleeping Blissey, trapping and killing it, though. It is usually wise to switch out to something else that can absorb a Hypnosis to activate sleep clause. Curse Snorlax with Shadow Ball and Rest can set up on Gengar without fear of Will-O-Wisp. The standard RestTalk Regice set is a very solid Gengar counter as well. For teams that use resistances as their main defense against strong special attackers, the opponent will often have to figure out or guess Gengar's set first, as it is very versatile. With some careful playing, Calm Zapdos will usually be able to switch in. Ice Punch deals considerable damage, but Gengar will usually lose one-on-one.</p>

    <p>Celebi can take on Gengar well thanks to Recover and Calm Mind. Gengar usually wouldn't risk staying in and taking a Psychic. Jirachi works in a similar way, except it takes less damage from Thunderbolt than Celebi takes from Ice Punch. Bulky Sleep Talk Tyranitar and Metagross can usually switch in on Gengar easily. McIceGar isn't that common, so Tyranitar is usually safe. With Max HP and some Special Defense investment, these Pokemon can reliably shut Gengar down. Tyranitar with Pursuit will also be able to trap and kill Gengar. Raikou is a good counter too, because it doesn't take much damage from Thunderbolt or Ice Punch, and can outspeed and do around 70% damage to Gengar with Thunderbolt. Raikou should be wary of Hypnosis and Will-O-Wisp, though. Rest + Sleep Talk is a situational set on Raikou that can counter Gengar hard. Dusclops is in the same boat—Rest + Sleep Talk sets will easily switch in on Gengar, but the Pain Split version should watch out for status.</p>
  2. Umby

    Umby I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
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    I believe Taunt gets a special mention on PerishTrapping Gengar as well. It stops Roar/Whirlwind and forces the opponent to succumb to Destiny Bond.
  3. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
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    Hey, as I noted when I uploaded Tyranitar, please beef up your set write-ups a bit. You need to include information about set-specific teammates and counters, the reasoning behind EV spreads, and why you picked the nature you did in the [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] part of the sets (which you've currently omitted entirely). Once you do that, we can potentially move this forward in the process!
  4. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    GP 1/2
  5. Calm Pokemaster

    Calm Pokemaster
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    [Overview]

    <p>Gengar is a very powerful threat due to its great stats and diversity. Its vast movepool is aided by high Special Attack, and Speed. Though held back by its awful defenses, Gengar will often have multiple opportunities to safely switch in thanks to its immunity to Ground-, Fighting-, and Normal-type attacks. Because of its versatility and great coverage, Gengar is very difficult to properly counter, once it is on the offensive. Gengar also has a wide variety of support moves at its disposal, ranging from status moves such as Will-O-Wisp and Hypnosis to Destiny Bond and Perish Song. Gengar can easily clean up many Pokemon late-game when almost everything has been weakened and is in KO range of its attacks.</p>

    [SET]

    name: Status
    move 1: Thunderbolt
    move 2: Ice Punch
    move 3: Giga Drain / Will-O-Wisp
    move 4: Hypnosis / Will-O-Wisp / Destiny Bond / Explosion
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 172 HP / 148 SpA / 188 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set combines Gengar's great coverage with a variety of support moves to cripple Pokemon that normally switch in against it. Thunderbolt and Ice Punch create a pseudo BoltBeam combination, which hits a lot of things that aren't dedicated special walls very hard. Giga Drain is a great attack to nail Swampert, which can cause Gengar some problems due to its bulk and immunity to Thunderbolt. However, Will-O-Wisp can be used in its place, as Giga Drain has little use outside of KOing Swampert (Swampert is crippled by Will-O-Wisp anyway). Will-O-Wisp cripples physical attackers such as Tyranitar and Metagross, which Gengar is otherwise virtually useless against. A myriad of choices are available in the last slot. Hypnosis is the preferred option, as it allows Gengar to put one Pokemon to sleep, essentially rendering it useless. Its terrible accuracy is the main drawback, though. You can use both Will-O-Wisp and Giga Drain if you wish, although only one of the two is necessary. Destiny Bond is very useful in the last slot, allowing Gengar to kill a Pokemon if it is taken down. It can also give Gengar free turns in which it can attack, attempt to burn a Pokemon, or switch for free, as not many players will attack a Gengar that has used Destiny Bond. Explosion can be used, allowing Gengar to go out with a bang, which is particularly useful against Blissey and Snorlax, both of whom wall Gengar.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>188 Speed EVs with a Timid nature is used because Gengar should always aim to outrun Pokemon such as Jolly Flygon, Timid Jirachi, and Tyranitar with one Dragon Dance. EVs are invested into the HP stat so Gengar isn't killed by a gentle breeze. 172 HP allows Gengar to always survive a Choice Band Metagross's Meteor Mash after it has been burned. The remaining EVs are invested in Special Attack to pump up Gengar's damage output. Make sure to use a Hasty nature and move the HP EVs to Attack if Explosion is used; this will let it do 80-90% to both Snorlax and Blissey, KOing them after prior damage.</p>

    <p>Pokemon such as Celebi and Blissey can be troublesome for Gengar. Blissey takes pathetic damage from Gengar's attacks, can cripple Gengar with Thunder Wave, as well as heal any burned or sleeping teammates with Aromatherapy. Celebi is 3HKOed by Ice Punch, but can Recover off damage, set up with Calm Mind, and OHKO Gengar with Psychic. Neither of these Pokemon are crippled by status due to Natural Cure. Starmie and Raikou can easily switch in on Ice Punch and Thunderbolt respectively, and can outspeed and KO Gengar. Adamant Dugtrio can trap and kill all of the aforementioned Pokemon, as well as Magneton, which is the only Pokemon that resists all of Gengar's attacks.</p>

    [SET]

    name: McIceGar
    move 1: Thunderbolt
    move 2: Ice Punch
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Focus Punch
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Hasty
    evs: 184 Atk / 136 SpA / 188 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This famous set from the earlier days of Advance has since declined in usage, but still has impressive coverage. The idea of the set is to use Substitute and Focus Punch to beat the Pokemon that cause purely special Gengar variants trouble: Blissey, Snorlax, and Regice. Each of the aforementioned Pokemon takes around 50% from a Focus Punch. Blissey cannot touch Gengar without Ice Beam, as Gengar is immune to Seismic Toss, and Thunder Wave is blocked by Substitute. The last two moveslots are occupied by Thunderbolt and Ice Punch, recreating the BoltBeam combination, giving Gengar great coverage alongside Focus Punch. Thunderbolt can nail the common bulky Water-types in the tier: Vaporeon, Suicune, and Gyarados, as well as Skarmory. Ice Punch puts a dent in Celebi and Zapdos, provided they are hit with it as they switch in. It can also OHKO Dragon-type Pokemon such as Flygon, Salamence, and Dragonite.</p>


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>188 Speed EVs with a Hasty nature allow Gengar to outrun Pokemon with base 100 Speed, such as Flygon and Jirachi, as well as Tyranitar after a Dragon Dance. 184 EVs in Attack will allow Gengar to 2HKO (49.9% - 59%) the standard Blissey most of the time with Focus Punch. Snorlax is also 2HKOed, and Tyranitar OHKOed. The remaining EVs are put into Gengar’s Special Attack stat to boost the damage output of Ice Punch and Thunderbolt.</p>

    <p>The main issue with this set is its inability to threaten common Pokemon like such as Jirachi and Swampert. Once the opponent figures out that Gengar doesn't pack Hypnosis, Will-O-Wisp, or Giga Drain, they can deal with it easily. Dugtrio can trap and KO Jirachi with Earthquake, as well as Starmie and Raikou, which can be a problem for Gengar. It can also pick off Blissey after it has been weakened by Focus Punch.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Shadow Ball used to be a common move for Celebi and other Gengar. Sludge Bomb is the only other physical move worth using on Gengar. It dents Blissey for about 25-30% and has a chance to poison it. This will force Blissey to resort to using Softboiled, which is when Gengar can hit it with Focus Punch, which 2HKOes. This set would run into serious issues with Metagross and Jirachi, and is generally not favorable in this metagame. Taunt is an option to prevent Snorlax from using Rest or Blissey from using Softboiled. This becomes a decent option with some HP EVs and Spikes support. Choice Band Gengar is a gimmicky option, but an option nonetheless, as it has two strong physical STAB attacks in Sludge Bomb and Shadow Ball. This set can do serious damage to Pokemon that normally counter Gengar, such as Blissey, and Snorlax with Focus Punch, and Celebi with Sludge Bomb. Once the opponent discovers the set, however, Gengar can be easily countered and will often end up resorting to Explosion quite quickly. An all-out attacker set with Thunderbolt, Ice Punch, Fire Punch, and Giga Drain is viable, and would provide the best available coverage for Gengar. Ice Punch does 34-40% to standard bulky Zapdos, and Fire Punch will dent standard Celebi and Jirachi for, dealing 41-48%. The common Tyranitar and Metagross switch-ins won't enjoy this set's coverage either. Given that it lacks the benefits that support moves such as Will-O-Wisp and Hypnosis provide, it is best suited as a late game cleaner. A set with Mean Look, Perish Song, Substitute, and Protect could be used to trap and kill Pokemon. A bulky EV spread would allow Gengar to survive dangerous moves like such as Celebi's Psychic and Choice Band Salamence's Hidden Power Flying. Perish Trapping Gengar is often unexpected and can turn the tables on typical counters. Pokemon such as Blissey and Snorlax switch in on Mean Look and will almost always lose the match-up. With over 300 Speed, Gengar can usually use both Substitute and Protect to stall the opponent's Pokemon properly before switching out.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Blissey can come in on the most popular Gengar set with ease. Special attacks do virtually nothing to it, and Natural Cure makes status moves mostly ineffective. Dugtrio can switch in on a sleeping Blissey, trapping and killing it, though. It is usually wise to switch out to something else that can absorb a Hypnosis to activate sleep clause. Curse Snorlax with Shadow Ball and Rest can set up on Gengar without fear of Will-O-Wisp. The standard RestTalk Regice set is a very solid Gengar counter as well. For teams that use resistances as their main defense against strong special attackers, the opponent will often have to figure out or guess Gengar's set first, as it is very versatile. With some careful playing, Calm Zapdos will usually be able to switch in. Ice Punch deals considerable damage, but Gengar will usually lose one-on-one.</p>

    <p>Celebi can take on Gengar well thanks to Recover and Calm Mind. Gengar usually wouldn't risk staying in and taking a Psychic. Jirachi works in a similar way, except it takes less damage from Thunderbolt than Celebi takes from Ice Punch. Bulky Sleep Talk Tyranitar and Metagross can usually switch in on Gengar easily. McIceGar isn't that common, so Tyranitar is usually safe. With Max HP and some Special Defense investment, these Pokemon can reliably shut Gengar down. Raikou is a good counter too, because it doesn't take much damage from Thunderbolt or Ice Punch, and it can outspeed and do around 90% damage to Gengar with one Thunderbolt. Raikou should be wary of Hypnosis and Will-O-Wisp, though. Rest + Sleep Talk is a situational set on Raikou that can counter Gengar hard. Dusclops is in the same boat—Rest + Sleep Talk sets will easily switch in on Gengar, but the Pain Split version should watch out for status.</p>


    Good job.

    [​IMG]

    GP 2 / 2
  6. Moo

    Moo Professor
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    Thanks guys, this is done now!
  7. gene

    gene GENE
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    no it's not

    why are half the sets gone, and why didn't you just cp the post and make your edits there.
  8. Moo

    Moo Professor
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    I did, but I thought the last set was a bit too gimmicky and the all out attacker set didn't deserve its own set because its almost exactly the same as the first. You can nail Swampert with Will-O-Wisp, meaning Giga Drain isn't needed, meaning Fire Punch is the only difference, which could just be slashed on the first set with a mention of 252 special attack/252 speed EVs.

    I moved both of them to OO, but if you think they need their own sets then I'll write them
  9. gene

    gene GENE
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    have you really played enough advance to know what sets are gimmicky and terrible and what sets are viable

    rhetorical question
  10. Moo

    Moo Professor
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    I have, and it's not that they aren't viable. The all out attacker set can be recreated in the first set by simply using Fire Punch in the last slot and maxing the EV Spread.

    The perish Trapper set, I'm unsure of, because you need to use Mean Look on the switch in, then use Perish Song while you're open to any attack that your opponent can fire at you. Blissey can cripple you with Thunder Wave, Snorlax can hit you with Shadow Ball, which does 59.3% - 70.4%, Celebi does 68.5% - 81.5% with Psychic and Jirach does around the same. The drawback is basically that your opponent gets a free shot while you're using Perish Song and that will ultimeately decide wether you can pull it off or not.
  11. Fatecrashers

    Fatecrashers acta est fabula
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    the missing sets for reference

    [SET]

    name: Pure Special Sweeper
    move 1: Thunderbolt
    move 2: Ice Punch
    move 3: Giga Drain
    move 4: Fire Punch
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is mostly an anti-metagame set that is popular against the modern play-off-resistances team. Just so Gengar doesn't become worthless, include Dugtrio and Pokemon like Tyranitar and Heracross. Ice Punch does 34-40% to standard bulky Zapdos, and Fire Punch will dent standard Celebi and Jirachi for 41-48%. The common Tyranitar or Metagross switches won't enjoy this set's coverage either.</p>

    [SET]

    name: Perish Trapper
    move 1: Mean Look
    move 2: Perish Song
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Destiny Bond / Hypnosis / Protect
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 80 SpD / 80 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This bulky EV spread allows you to survive dangerous moves like Celebi's Psychic or Choice Band Salamence's Hidden Power Flying. Perish Trapping Gengar is often unexpected and can turn the tables on your typical counters. Pokemon like Blissey and Snorlax switch in on Mean Look and will almost always lose the match-up.</p>

    <p>With over 300 Speed, Gengar can usually use both Substitute and Protect to make sure it stalls the opponent's Pokemon properly before switching out.</p>
  12. gene

    gene GENE
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    you can add additional crap to them, but don't delete the core strategy again
  13. Moo

    Moo Professor
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    k, I'll write them up, and I didn't get rid of what was already there for the other sets, I just re-worded them

    Edit: thanks fate
  14. Fatecrashers

    Fatecrashers acta est fabula
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    oh fyi taunt should be slashed with substitute on the perishtrapper set

    and you'll need gp checks for the additional two sets, so change this back to copyediting
  15. Moo

    Moo Professor
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    There is no copyediting, the tags are for generations here :p
  16. Conflict

    Conflict And who are you, the proud lord said That I must bow so low?
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    Ok mention 2 things:

    Modest Nature on the Pure Special Attacker. Gengar only loses to other Gengar with this change (so your team should have a solution for that!) and can now 2hko some foes (Metagross) without Spikes and some with 1 (or max 2 layers) like Celebi/Jirachi etc. pp. Averages out with around 3% more damage to all targets. Maybe even slash in.

    Painsplit on the Perishtrapper set. Pretty great tool versus some foes. I wouldnt slash it in though just put it somewhere (AC? idk).
  17. gene

    gene GENE
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    timid has its uses (mainly 100s with +speed nature). modest can be slashed in though, i agree
  18. Calm Pokemaster

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    GP Checking on request; this is for the 2 new sets.

    Show Hide

    [SET]

    name: All Out Attacker
    move 1: Thunderbolt
    move 2: Ice Punch
    move 3: Giga Drain
    move 4: Fire Punch
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Gengar can make an excellent all out attacker due to its high Speed and Special Attack stats as well as its great movepool. This set sacrifices support moves such as Will-O-Wisp and Hypnosis, gaining the widest possible coverage against common Pokemon in return. This is mostly an anti-metagame set that is popular against the modern play-off-resistances team. The combination of Thunderbolt and Ice Punch in itself provides perfect neutral coverage, barring Magneton. Thunderbolt hits Skarmory, and bulky Water-types such as Gyarados, Suicune, and Vaporeon, whereas Ice Punch nails Zapdos and Celebi for around 40%, and OHKOes common Dragon-type Pokemon. The last two moveslots are occupied by attacks that increase Gengar's super effective coverage. Giga Drain nails Swampert, who is immune to Thunderbolt, sponges Ice Punch with ease, and can 2HKO Gengar with Hydro Pump. Since Swampert is normally a good switch-in to Gengar, however, the opponent will have trouble against All Out Attacker variants this set if it Swampert is their only reliable switch in to it. Fire Punch is used in the last moveslot, and allows Gengar to KO Forretress, Scizor, and 2HKO standard Jirachi and Metagross, the former after Spikes damage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread is very straightforward: Gengar's Speed is maximized to outpace Pokemon with base 100 Speed Pokemon, as well opposing Gengar without maximum Speed. Gengar's Special Attack is also maximized, to ensure a high damage output. A Timid nature is advised, making Gengar as fast as possible. A Modest nature can be used to increase Gengar's power even further, but Gengar will be outpaced by opposing Gengar with a Timid nature.</p>

    <p>Due to its Special Defense boost in the sand, and Gengar's lack of Will-O-Wisp, Tyranitar can be a problem, using Gengar as setup bait. Starmie and Raikou can also cause problems, as they can outspeed and KO Gengar, and can easily switch in against into a predicted Ice Punch or Fire Punch, and Thunderbolt, respecively. As such, Dugtrio makes a reliable teammate, because it can trap, outspeed, and KO Starmie, Raikou, and Tyranitar after one Dragon Dance boost. Defensive variants of Zapdos and Celebi can cause problems for Gengar also, as they can sponge Gengar's attacks (each takes around 40% damage from Gengar's super effective moves), and do serious damage to it with Thunderbolt and Psychic, respectively. Tyranitar can be used to assist against Zapdos, as it can set up on the bird due to its Special Defense boost in the sand, while Heracross can be used as itOHKOes even defensive variants of Celebi.</p>

    [SET]

    name: Perish Trapper
    move 1: Mean Look
    move 2: Perish Song
    move 3: Substitute / Taunt
    move 4: Destiny Bond / Protect / Hypnosis
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 80 SpD / 80 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Perish Trapping Gengar is often unexpected and can turn the tables on typical Gengar counters. The idea of the set is to use Mean Look as a Gengar counter such as Blissey or Snorlax switches in and trap it, then use Perish Song and kill the Pokemon. Substitute is used to effectively provide free turns at the cost of a quarter of Gengar's HP. After two turns, Gengar switches to an appropriate switch-in, scoring a free KO, because the opposing Pokemon cannot switch out due to Mean Look. Destiny Bond is used in the final moveslot, allowing Gengar to take out another Pokemon after trapping and KOing something. It should only be used as a last resort, when Gengar has lost most of its HP by making Substitutes. Taunt can be used instead of Substitute to stop any attempts at crippling Gengar with status moves or phazing it, but if it is used then Protect must be used in the final moveslot as Gengar needs free turns to pull off the strategy. Hypnosis is an alternative, and can put the trapped Pokemon to sleep, rendering it useless as Perish Song takes effect. However, its low accuracy makes it a risky option.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>This bulky EV spread allows you to survive dangerous moves like such as Celebi's Psychic or Choice Band Salamence's Hidden Power Flying, which is useful because Gengar is vulnerable as it sets up Perish Song. With 80 Speed EVs and a Timid nature, Gengar has over 300 Speed, which allows it to outspeed a vast amount of Pokemon, letting it use Substitute first and provide free turns for itself. Its Speed stat is not maximized though, because bulk is its main priority on this set.</p>

    <p>Pain Split can be used in the last moveslot, providing Gengar with a method of recovery, increasing its survivability and allowing for more Substitutes. For the purposes of trapping, Dugtrio makes an excellent teammate because of its Arena Trap ability. Dugtrio can reliably trap and kill Pokemon with Perish Song if Gengar is KOed before Perish Song has taken effect. Dugtrio will need Substitute or Protect in its movepool, though, which is otherwise a bit gimmicky. Dugtrio can also assist against Starmie, Raikou, and Dragon Dance Tyranitar, which are problematic for Gengar.</p>


    [​IMG]

    Treat this as GP 1 / 2 for these two sets - they will need another GP Check before this can be considered done.
  19. Moo

    Moo Professor
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    tyvm for the check CP!
  20. NixHex

    NixHex No excuses
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    I'm gonna take a whack at an unofficial GP check. don't mind me =P
    Omit
    Change
    Comments

  21. Moo

    Moo Professor
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    Thanks, that was a pretty good check!
  22. Fatecrashers

    Fatecrashers acta est fabula
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    [​IMG]

    stamping that check so this should be done i think
  23. Moo

    Moo Professor
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    Thanks fate
    This is done now :)
  24. Earthworm

    Earthworm
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    I would strongly suggest that Taunt be included somewhere and not just in other options, it is very effective with W-o-W.
    nitpicking but lanturn
    No it can't; pain split is a HGSS tutor move.

    can be removed since these sets were re-added.

    Pursuit Tyranitar might be worth mentioning here since it has gained popularity lately.
  25. Moo

    Moo Professor
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    Thanks a bunch EW :)

    I could slash it in the last slot, but would 5 slashes be a bit much? Let me know what you think, and I'll change it then.

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