Pokémon Gengar

[Tesung]

New Set:
"GengRape"
@ Gengarite
Evs: 252 Speed, 252 HP, 4def
Timid
-Hypnosis
-Perish Song
-Taunt
-Subsitute

Counters: Vital spirit Primape, prankster taunt, U-turn?

This is why mega-gengar is broken, shadow tag + amazing movepool is not even fair.

 

[Ash Borer]

counters: 60% accuracy lol

 

[RoyalBlue]

I've been using Gengar a lot on my Gen 6 DragMag team and I have to say, it's the best piece of crap ever! In case you were wondering, I tried playing like a Mega, extra turn where I don't need to mega, no item etc. it's been work out great still. The ability to trap Fairies and Steels as kill it with Focus Blast, Sludge Bomb and Thunderbolt is just ridiculously broken and its power is nothing to laugh at.

Gengar @ Gengarite
Trait: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 SAtk/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
Modest Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Sludge Bomb
- Thunderbolt

This thing is definitely going to get banned early on.

 

[Stone RG]

your calculations are wrong. Assault vest + sandstorm is not +2, but rather +1 and a sand storm which is a 2.25x boost, not a 2x boost.

on the topic of megagar's counters

252 SpA (custom) Focus Blast vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in sand: 176-208 (43.56 - 51.48%) -- 6.25% chance to 2HKO

4 Atk Tyranitar Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (custom): 134-162 (51.34 - 62.06%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after weather

combined with focus blasts's accuracy, mega gengar can only beat full strength tyranitar about 3.1% of the time. This assumes no hazards on both sides of the field, and both mons at full strength. Assault vest ttar pretty much beats mega gengar. This is also assuming mega gar runs timid, and its base stats of 150 specia lattack, 60 hp, and 80 defense are correct.

even modest mega gengar

252+ SpA (custom) Focus Blast vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in sand: 192-228 (47.52 - 56.43%) -- 84.77% chance to 2HKO

beats assault vest T-tar less than 50% of the time, and still has to deal with the fact that crunch is going to kill it 100% of the time, meaning that even if your first focus blast hits and has a good damage roll the opponent may have played it safe and crunched.

Unfortunately assault vest tar cant taunt, so destiny bond ensures it cant survive its encounter with gar, but at least both will die, and you cant get trapped anymore. There is convoluted prediction non sense involve if tyranitar runs a taunt set against a sludge bomb / shadow ball / taunt / destiny bond gengar. Beating it with crunch if it taunts first turn, beating it with taunt then pursuit if it destiny bonds first turn, and beating it pursuit if it decides to switch. That's not exactly a counter but can beat it with some luck.

This is like the first smart post in 3 pages rofl (sorry you guys but im tired of Perish song stall on a pokemon with 60/80/95 bulk with no lefties)

Mega Gengar has 170 base spA if im remembering correctly, so, taking that into account, im not going to do the calcs, but im pretty darn sure that increases the probabilities of winning agaisnt ttar by quite a lot, not to mention that turn a lot of people are going to try to use to switch in their ttar before shadow tag takes into effect. Now, simply with rocks up, mega gengar actually beats tyranitar on the switch 75% of the time, which is the exact same probability as focus miss hitting, becase dual shadow ball + focus blast + rocks = dead ttar, and based on those calcs...

4 Atk Tyranitar Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (custom): 134-162 (51.34 - 62.06%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after weather
Support Ttar cannot ohko mega gengar while he KOs with rocks up and NO need of predicting whiel you switch, btw im exxagerating on the 75% because fu***** crits and i dont have any calcs with 170 base SpA gengar to back up my argument but im pretty sure you get the point: ttar is not a safe switch in in ANY case to M-Gengar. Hell, even if you try to check, betting your ttar on a dual focus miss isnt the best choice.

 

[Chaosreaver]

I'm currently looking at the HP investment recommended in the first set. Does anyone feel the 80 HP investment is truly worth it to survive attacks, or do you prefer the max speed?

 

[Schpoonman]

252+ SpA Gengar (base 170 SpA) Focus Blast vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in sand: 224-268 (55.44 - 66.33%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Has Focus Blast been confirmed to remain at 120 BP? Because this calc is assuming that.

 

[Ash Borer]

ah, sorry I ran those calcs with 150 base special attack.

GOd damn 170, that's just obscene. Well, at least gengar has to elect between predicting a crunch and switching or predicting a pursuit and focus blasting. Mitigation at best.

 

[Chaosreaver]

252+ SpA Gengar (base 170 SpA) Focus Blast vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in sand: 224-268 (55.44 - 66.33%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Has Focus Blast been confirmed to remain at 120 BP? Because this calc is assuming that.

I am currently looking at TM 52 Focus Blast - it's still at 120 BP/70% acc/5 pp. Still retains the 10% SpD drop too. Seems entirely unchanged.

 

[Karpi]

Mega Gengar with Disable unfortunately invalidates ALL Choice Band/Specs pokemon below 130 base speed, and ALL Choice Scarf pokemon that can't OHKO it.

 

[Mattman324]

If you're running sleep on Mega Gengar, it's better to just take advantage of the free switch and go to your Dragon Dance user or something, rather than trying to stall them out with Dream Eater (think Encore Wobbuffet). Really, do we even need to test this guy to see that he is broken? I know I'm not playing Gen 6 until he is banned.

Yes, we do. We can't just assume it will be broken.

 

[X5Dragon]

Just to comment on those who are saying Sludge Wave + Disable on the same set is illegal, Sludge Wave is a TM at the Battle Mansion:

http://www.serebii.net/xy/battlemaison.shtml

 

[56k]

Hippowdon can counter MegaGengar. (Counter means it can switch in and kill MegaGengar without dying, or force MegaGengar to switch out)

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sandstream
Adamant
220 HP / 36 Atk / 252 SpDef
-Bulldoze
-Protect
-Slack Off
-xxxxx

252 SpAtk Timid MegaGengar Shadow Ball / Focus Blast vs 220 HP, 252 SpDef Adamant Hippowdown: 37.86% - 44.66%. (56.79% - 66.99% at -1 SpDef)

After you switch in, getting around Destiny Bond is the problem. Note that if Sandstorm kills MegaGengar then Hippo doesn't die to Destiny Bond. Earthquake would straight kill the thing, meaning Hippowdon goes down too. Bulldoze does 74.04% - 87.78%

Switch in and eat the Shadow Ball (and then gain leftovers recovery), use Protect for another leftovers, then use Bulldoze (it will NOT kill it). MegaGengar might die to sandstorm after that. If it didn't, use Protect again.

If you actually rolled a minimum damage roll (your something along the lines of a 5% chance to be this unlucky) then MegaGengar might STILL be alive. You should gamble on protect again and if it fails, well, MegaGengar finally dies to sandstorm.

The fourth slot has other options for forcing MegaGengar out including Roar, Yawn, and Whirlwind. Or you could use Crunch, Ice Fang, or Toxic.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

Just to comment on those who are saying Sludge Wave + Disable on the same set is illegal, Sludge Wave is a TM at the Battle Mansion:

http://www.serebii.net/xy/battlemaison.shtml

It was a TM last generation too, but Gengar still couldn't learn it by TM. Whether or not that has changed as of XY I'm not sure, but if it hasn't, a transferred DW Ghastly would be the only way to get a Sludge Wave Gengar (i.e. no Sludge Wave + Disable).

 

[duckberg]

Anyone else think that losing levitate could actually screw Gengar a bit. A choice scarfer with EQ can now potentially kill it with a SE EQ, which is still only 65 defense. Just a thought.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Anyone else think that losing levitate could actually screw Gengar a bit. A choice scarfer with EQ can now potentially kill it with a SE EQ, which is still only 65 defense. Just a thought.

And that's a price people are willing to pay in exchange for a super-excellent ability and increased stats. Besides, any Choice Scarf Pokemon with decently powerful neutral moves can go and KO Gengar.

While we're on the subject, has anybody considered using Protect on Mega Gengar? It's super specific, but it allows Gengar to protect itself while Mega evolving so it can get the base Speed stat boost without risking itself. Yes, it may limit coverage a little, but it seems that the general thing to do is use Gengar with 2-3 attacks with 1-2 support moves such as Destiny Bond or Taunt.

 

[alexwolf]

And that's a price people are willing to pay in exchange for a super-excellent ability and increased stats. Besides, any Choice Scarf Pokemon with decently powerful neutral moves can go and KO Gengar.

While we're on the subject, has anybody considered using Protect on Mega Gengar? It's super specific, but it allows Gengar to protect itself while Mega evolving so it can get the base Speed stat boost without risking itself. Yes, it may limit coverage a little, but it seems that the general thing to do is use Gengar with 2-3 attacks with 1-2 support moves such as Destiny Bond or Taunt.

Protect was already viable on 3 attacks Gengar, to scout for attacks of Choiced mons (Choice Scarf Keldeo, Choice Band Scizor, etc), and now it has one more use so i definitely think it will be a good option.

 

[Tesung]

Protect isn't worth it. It's other options (dual stab, disable, substitute, taunt, perish song, hypnosis, focus blast, hidden piwer, are just too good.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

Protect is actually pretty cool on Gengar for the reasons AccidentalGreed and alexwolf mentioned, and Gengar will have enough room for it. Its STABs alone already hit almost everything for neutral damage; Tyranitar, Krookodile, Bisharp, Skuntank, Drapion, and Diggersby are the only ones I can think of that resist it, and they're all unlikely to be common in OU and/or are hit hard by Focus Blast, which will serve well in the third slot. Protect is certainly not the only good option, but it's just one more tool at Mega Gengar's disposal.

 

[GreatEclipse]

Yes, we do. We can't just assume it will be broken.

So every Pokemon, from Mewtwo and his forms on down, will be tested first in OU before being banned in gen 6?

 

[AccidentalGreed]

I'm glad you guys agree!

Assuming we're using this on a team that focuses on stacking up entry hazard damage and you need protection from the usually faster Starmie / Weavile combination, the set might go as follows:

name: Protect
move 1: Shadow Ball
move 2: Sludge Bomb
move 3: Protect
move 4: Focus Blast / Destiny Bond
item: Gengarite
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

This set, again, is designed to protect Gengar from faster opponents while it evolves, allowing it to trap and kill threats such as Starmie, Weavile, Latios, Alakazam, Choice Scarf Tyranitar, and Tornadus-T reliably. Protect also serves as a good scouting move when Scizor and Tyranitar become problems; both might use Pursuit or attempt to outpredict Gengar and tank any of its attacks while using another move. Like Agent Gibbs said, the first two moves already achieve pretty cool coverage, and Focus Blast is only the icing on the cake. Destiny Bond can be considered if Scizor or Assault Vest Tyranitar choose to use Pursuit, killing both of them in the process, and is only an alternative since this Gengar doesn't use HP Fire for Scizor.

 

[MarksmanPZ]

Why not run Substitute to help Gengar 2HKO its checks?

Obviously, Gengar is going to cause a lot of switches, so being able to 2HKO its checks without risking a Focus Blast missing is great. Also, you could use sub WITHOUT going Mega on a turn you know they will switch into something like Gliscor or Hippowdon whose only hope is EQing Gengar.

Gengar @Gengarite
Timid
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Shadow Ball
Sludge Bomb
Focus Blast
Substitute

 

[Kefkapwnsall]

I just made this set



Mega Gengar @ Gengarite
Nature: Modest
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 SpA/252Speed/4 HP
Dazzling Gem
Shadow Ball
Sludge Bomb
Destiny Bond
I can see Dazzling getting some use as a Dragon killer especially with the prevalence of Crunch

 

[MyvTeddy]

Hey, I'm kind of new to competitive battling for pokemon and I just wanted to ask: Why is substitute good for Gengar? actually, why is substitute good to begin with anyway?

 

[MrEon]

Hey, I'm kind of new to competitive battling for pokemon and I just wanted to ask: Why is substitute good for Gengar? actually, why is substitute good to begin with anyway?

a) Gengar is very frail, so Substitute effectively gives it a one time shield against any strong attack. The same goes for any 'mon, even bulky ones, who can use Substitute to protect themselves from powerful/super-effective attacks.
b) It blocks status moves (Thunderwave, etc.)
c) It can help ease prediction. Lets take normal Gengar for example. You have it out against any 'mon that is expected to switch, and the opponent has a jellicent and Tyranitar on his team. What do you do? If you use Shadow Ball for Jelli, Ttar can come in and absorb the hit, while Jellicent can take Focus Blast aimed at Tar. So, you Sub on the switch which allows you to see what the opponent does and act accordingly.
d) It can help prevent hax. Sub can save you from critical hits, and provide a second chance in case you miss your attacks.

Why not run Substitute to help Gengar 2HKO its checks?

Obviously, Gengar is going to cause a lot of switches, so being able to 2HKO its checks without risking a Focus Blast missing is great. Also, you could use sub WITHOUT going Mega on a turn you know they will switch into something like Gliscor or Hippowdon whose only hope is EQing Gengar.

Gengar @Gengarite
Timid
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Shadow Ball
Sludge Bomb
Focus Blast
Substitute

How is anything switching out of Shadow tag Gengar? Substitute isnt bad on Gar, Im just afraid you're getting it wrong.

 

[Laga]

A free Substitute is not hard for Gengar to snatch, which is what makes Gengar such a good user of it. Gengar is immune to three types, and many of them are used in two-move coverage baseplates (Fighting, Ground, and Normal). This makes it easy for Gengar to set up a Substitute, and it can also threaten Pokemon out to set up a completely free Substitute. Gengar is a prime example of what is, probably, the best user of Substitute around.