1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Get on the offense

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by elDino, Oct 24, 2011.

  1. V0x

    V0x I stay out too late
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,798
    My favorite is stacking, and I think Fighting-types are the way to go right now (SR resistance, hitting all Steels at least neutrally) IMO there are too many Steels for Dragon stacking. It's doable, but I don't have the patience to play around resists. Take a combination (usually 2) of the following: DD Scrafty, Double Dance Terrakion, SD Mienshao, or SD Lucario and send them through. Then, bring in Deoxys-S LO 3-4 attacks (Psycho Boost definitely, OHkOes Rotom, Gliscor, Haxorus). A Scarfer is nice, and there's always Wobb for opposing ones.

    Speaking of Wobb, Jolly is awesome. I prefer Safeguard so I can encore and set up, but Tickle+Pursuit is really effective in taking out some walls. Finally, special sweepers can kill without Blissey around.
  2. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,580
    Thanks for the feedback, Eggbert! I really didn't realize there was an official distinction between heavy vs hyper offense, lol - i thought they referred to the same thing :x. I guess I'm referring to hyper offense (all special), but not necessarily with dual screen support (is this necessary?).

    Jirachi doesn't seem to pack enough punch and is easily walled to really fit in an HO team, imo. Perhaps Calm Mind - Psyshock - Thunderbolt - Grass Knot @ Lefties / LO? It still doesn't enjoy Celebi and Gliscor - I guess Latios or Gengar can come in to rescue Jirachi.
  3. bluemon

    bluemon

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,519
    you know whats a good -but gimmick- hyper offense team?

    trick room.

    sure it requires set up, but i see it just like dual screens. no one likes taking eqs from a marowak, and marowak's fire punch 2hkoes skarmory with rocks. marowak and other trick room sweepers hit INSANELY hard, and have respectable bulk too. it also makes other regular hyper offense useless because they are always outsped by the trick room sweepers. trick room is such an anti-meta hyper offense right now.

    another partner i find awesome with trick room is spped boost sharpedo. once trick room runs out, (or it can do that with protect) it can easily sweep weakened teams.
  4. Joeyboy

    Joeyboy Check out my Youtube channel! JoeyboyGames!
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2010
    Messages:
    1,433
    I'd like to talk about Rain Offense's latest player Gyarados. Gyarados has been one of my favs for a while(specifically Moxiedos) and since the ban of Excadrill and Thundurus I have seen a HUGE surge in Gyara's popularity. I'm talking every other rain team having a Gyarados. It seems like an odd time for such increase as while both the recent ubers were nuisances to 'Dos both could be easily worked around. By having Rain up for 'drill and by nabbing a DD or sub on the Thund switch in. I don't know if its just me seeing the increase or not but I just wanted to hear what anyone thought of this.
  5. windwolf777

    windwolf777

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2010
    Messages:
    165
    Hnmm, you're right. Maybe take out infernape or shao for terrakion ? And if yes, who ? Shao because she can't do jack shit to ghosts ?
  6. barry4ever

    barry4ever
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2009
    Messages:
    877
    I'd probably take out Mienshao. Infernape has a lot of more utility than Mienshao imo along with better overall coverage, priority, Close Combat at the cost of losing Regenerator. Its up to you to weigh it out, the Regen boost from Mienshao or the better overall coverage from Infernape ?
  7. Eggbert

    Eggbert

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,076
    Yea hyper and heavy are confused alot... I find that dual screen support is really what makes it work, whether you are using special or physical. There are many reasons for this, but generally it lets you set up more, as 1 extra DD goes a long way early game, and wallbreak with those extra boosts. Against offense, it also shields you from the common CB Scizor and Dragonite who can sometimes revenge sweepers before they start doing damage. Some scarfers like Terrakion are also difficult to beat otherwise since they have excellent coverage and outspeed you even after multiple boosts (nite can't beat it at +2)

    Jirachi is more of a lure for fellow psychics like Reuniclus. I ran Flash cannon / t-bolt / hp fire. It sounds really odd, but it was very effective. Scizor, Ferro, and ttar lose so much of their health or are OHKOd so that they won't be stopping Reuniclus anytime soon. Heatran is actually beaten with light screen up since it can't damage you enough before you can boost up and t-bolt it down. Volc appreciates that alot. As for power, a modest nature is all you need. It OHKOs Haxorus after a CM and SR like 60% of the time. 20 Hp / 252 SpA / 236 Spe to beat Adamant Hax. Flash cannon 2hkos Glis and it can't OHKO back (can't even 2hko with screens). Cele is 2hko'd by hp fire. If you don't have psyshock > flash cannon, make sure you have volcarona covered since it can easily set up on you though.
  8. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,626
    Funny how people were so enthusiastic about using SubCM Jirachi at some point, and now we're discussing Superachi as if it never existed.

    tp: if you use Superachi, use it as a lure rather than a main sweeper (though it can be that if the opportunity presents itself. It won't be as bulky as many people expect your typical SpD variant to be, and it always has problems with one of the popular Pokemon in OU. Other than that, don't expect it to do much damage because of 1 CM + Leftovers. I'd much rather run Life Orb or Shuca, but it gives it away.

    Relevant tidbit: unless you're crazy about Heatran, don't run Hidden Power Ground.
  9. That Noob

    That Noob

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2011
    Messages:
    146
    I'm totally using double dance terrakion + sd luke, wobb, and sweeper deoxys-s plus a scarfed latios. one more member and i have a new fun team to test, lol. anyways, offense has always been my playstyle because I play pokemon for fun, and having 100 turn battles in which your entry hazards do the most damage is not my idea of fun. Also,

    Speed Boost Sharpedo is a monster clean-up sweeper. Use a full physical set with protect, waterfall, crunch, and aqua jet, preferably with rain support. Try it out! It is absolutely amazing!
  10. Ninja-persian

    Ninja-persian

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2010
    Messages:
    192
    How about CB Ferro as a hard-hitter for a rain offence team? It can lure in common switch-ins and fire STAB Gyro balls and power whips!
  11. 2sly4u

    2sly4u

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2010
    Messages:
    535
    I'm surprised Gyarados isn't more popular on offensive teams, with one of its best checks (I.E. Thundurus) gone. He can fit onto many different offensive teams since he has good bulk and a way to boost speed, but he's a monster in Rain. At +1/+1 or even +2/+2, little could stand in the way of a Rain-powered Waterfall.
  12. NixHex

    NixHex No excuses
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,629
    Choice Band Ferrothorn, moreso than all Choice users, requires massive prediction. You need to know exactly when that annoying SubCharge Magnezone is going to switch in so you can nail it with Bulldoze before it traps you, and you must know when that hopefully Air Balloon-less Heatran comes in so you don't waste time switching out. Otherwise, read the calcs in the onsite Ferro analysis, they're pretty amazing.
  13. elDino

    elDino Deal With It.
    is a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,490
    Updated the OP, yaddayada.

    I'm quite impressed with some of the contributions so far, so keep up the good work all!
    I'd also like to highlight the use of Calm Mind Jirachi, as I've used it myself to pretty good success and I can safely say it works pretty well as a lure for other special sweepers to smash through walls.

    Opinions on this? Other lures should be mentioned too, such as the SubSD Gliscor set with Flying Gem to smash through Rotom-W and the like.
  14. ssbbm

    ssbbm

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,020
    CB Terrakion is cool. It really is. But Double Dance Terrakion is so much more manlier. I mean, you basically kill everything at +2, and the only thing that can stop you is CB Bullet Punch. Nothing can really wall you, lol.
  15. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Messages:
    7,648
    Personally I loved using SUb CM Jirachi in the Rain, espescially in tandem with SubSD Tentacruel. Water Pulse+Thunder is the gayest combo (except when WP fails to confuse -.-) and if your opp lacks faster pokes they will be pulling their hair out. Sub SD Tenta is so much fun to use too, pulling a psuedo StallRein if it has to to stall out EQs and the like.
  16. Aeromence

    Aeromence

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2011
    Messages:
    456
    I like Dragon offence. 4Drag2Mag is as good as it will ever be, but just stacking 3 dragons (DD Salamence, SubDD Dnite, CB Haxxy) with similar counters is great, then filling the last slots with Rotom-W and Specs heatran is great for beating skarm, and lastly, i just put in a ferro or rachi. DD Salamence and DD Haxorus have become a lot better with the banning of Exca and Thundurus, but Dnite dealt with them anyway. I also like Volt Turning and Deo-S + Lucario + Mixed Hydreigon/Salamence Hyper Offence
  17. jiggz16

    jiggz16

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    52
    I have to agree, but from the opposing side. Sub CM Jirachi on a Rain team with Water Pulse and Thunder will get the best of you as it has done to me several times. Mostly because you won't find out it's full moveset until it's already behind a Sub with one or two CMs up. It's other movesets have become just as, if not more, effective because you have to scout to see what your opponent is running due to the sheer bs Thunder and Water Pulse provide. Jirachi is probably the 'Mon I have the most trouble with these days only because if I guess wrong from the start it's an uphill battle that involves sacking 1 or 2 team members I deem the least important in a given matchup.
  18. bluemon

    bluemon

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,519
    you know whats even better?

    a purely offensive jirachi with

    thunder
    water pulse
    iron head
    energy ball

    this thing shits on all shit.

    you get confuse hax, parahax, flinch hax all at the same time, (if you are wondering, the opponent has 15% chance to attack) and you can now hit gastrodons!
  19. NatGeo

    NatGeo sun's coming up
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,428
    ok, so I might as well make a helpful post!

    Trick Room offense doesn't usually seem to be worth it, but in reality it can actually be very effective and dismantle many a sun team whose Chlorophyll boosts are reversed among others! Trick Room tends to be made up of a few Trick Room setters which may or may not take advantage of it though they usually do, especially the likes of TR Reuniclus, Porygon2, and Bronzong. Attackers in Trick Room can vary but they usually hit very hard off of the bat (occasionally with CB but more often than not LO attackers are cool) and don't use boosting moves - if they do they're +2 ones like Nasty Plot, in the case of Slowking or SD Ferrothorn. A good Trick Room team also usaully contains at least one Pokemon that can function nicely outside of Trick Room (again, Porygon2, Reuniclus, and Bronzong all work nicely). Trick Room only lasts for five turns, so taking advantage of that is key.
  20. bluemon

    bluemon

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,519
    good post but.... you didnt mention marowak. he is like the poster child of trick room. pretty bulky (lives all priority) and hits stupidly hard. it also has recoilless double edge to cripple rotom and latios switch ins.
  21. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,626
    Well, assuming you don't run some kind of boosting item like Life Orb, I doubt Jirachi would hit hard enough to warrant such a set so dedicated towards Drizzle. Even with boosting items, +0 Jirachi lacks the bite to get the KO on non-STAB moves, as evidenced by Celebi's own lack of output.

    IMO, and as stated by Pocket, only Superachi really fits on offensive teams, if not the Drizzle variation of SubCM (which is great because you set up on Ferrothorn completely). I'm considering using Hidden Power Ground just because there's so many Heatran switching into it freely (after all, Jirachi=free kill), although Superachi has enough coverage issues as it is (trying to hit Gliscor, getting by Scizor, etc.)
  22. Benny in a Jet

    Benny in a Jet

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2011
    Messages:
    233
    How do you counter a team that stacks Mence/D-Nite/Haxo? You'd have to pack counters to each one which leaves you open to other teams like stacked-Fighting. -_-
  23. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,580
    Yea, Trick Room beefed up a lot this gen. Reuniclus, Eviolite Porygon2, Eviolite Dusclops, Regenerator Slowbro, Mew, Chandelure, and Jellicent are viable TRoomers added this gen. 5th Gen also added fearsome TR abusers as well, namely OTR Reuniclus and Conkeldurr. The 5-turn timer is off-putting, but with all the apparent improvements that BW has made, TR is much more viable than before.

    @Benny in a Jet - physically bulky Gyarados + Steel usually does a great job keeping those physical stacking teams at bay. Intimidate is an awesome ability, negating their 1 turn they used to DD. Usually they try to DD again, assuming that Gyarados would DD, but then you hit them with a D-Tail, and there goes their boosts. Gyarados does a good job baiting these dragons to Outrage the 2nd time they come in, which Steel Types like Jirachi can easily absorb after an Intimidate / without DD. Screens can be stalled out quite easily like this.

    Scarf Latios and Scarf Haxorus are also great in sniping down these mons after the screens wore off. Scarf Latios is especially useful, since it can even revenge-kill DDNite at +2 (watch out for Scizor, though :x).
  24. surly

    surly

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    13
    I'm currently trying to build a team similar as described above, I just wanted to check if someone already has some experience with this style of play .... especially compared with Dual Screens, since both teams seem pretty similar (one uses 6 sweepers while the other one uses 5 sweepers and a screener).

    Is Dual Screens the better choice most of the time or is this a legit and viable alternative?



    Also, I'm really interested if someone already tried Metagross as a Double Screener, since it seems like everybody is using Deoxys-S these days ... no love for a bulky Steelgolem? ^^
  25. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2010
    Messages:
    2,818
    It's a bit slow, and that is one of the main qualities of a good dual screener, i.e., it can be taken out before it has a chance to set up the appropriate screen. I've recently made a pretty decent hyper offense team that doesn't use dual screens

    http://pastebin.com/bqPM0Dth

    ala gave me a hand building it

    edit: on seconds thought it's more heavy offense

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)