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Other Getting CAP back on track!
- Thread starter Theorymon
- Start date
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This. Custom abilities and moves were okay at times (I could take it or leave it), but the movepools got really big. I think however we proceed with CAP 2, it will be important for the TL to minimize the size of the movepool while retaining the Pokemon's function. I think Tomohawk wasn't that bad until the very end (it was a little too big IMO but not a huge problem), but then there are times where we underestimated the effect of a big movepool and ended up failing the concept (sorry, can't make a post without bashing Krilowattt -_-).
I think the leadership is pretty good now and I see CAP2 being a lot better than its recent predecessors, and most of them were pretty good! Especially Voodoom!
I'd like to say that I'm glad to see CAP getting on it's feet again, the CAP forum is still one of the tabs in my browser that always open when I open a new browser window and it was sad to see it say quiet for such a long time due to technical issues.
Good work Theorymon for your funny solution, although in Trick Room, Harden Metapod is beast! :P
Although also very curious about this new framework Doug is building, I won't bother you about the details. It does sounds fun! And if all the time you invested in Shoddy wasn't enough already, now you're building a new framework from scratch, which, by the sounds of it, encompasses far more than just a simulator, and thus is probably an massive project to make. Therefore, my compliments for all your hard work and good luck.
Now as to the actual starting up of CAP, if we want to reboot CAP, I'd say, let's start CAP 2 pronto. No policy discussion beforehand, no nothing. Why?
Because of CAP 11, CAP 10, CAP 9 and CAP 8, for example. Two of these CAPs took 6 weeks and 3 days from start to final product. I also have the feeling at the moment that CAP is really slow, but I also realize that that feeling is definitely in part caused by the long pause both between the gen 4 and gen 5 transition (It took a while before we started making CAP 1 after our last Gen 4 CAP), and the silence the past few months up til now.
The process itself never felt slow to me, if I look back. Hell, at times, I remember - to the point of annoyance to others - that I would've liked to keep the discussion going for days, because I just like the lively discussions leading up to the final products.
Like Doug says, the current CAP process has been formed after countless trial and error runs over the previous CAPs. I might not have been around for the first five CAPs, but even after CAP 6, the process kept getting more and more streamlined until it is what it's now.
I'm sure we could think of ways to improve the current process or at least make it go more fast (although I feel that finishing CAPs in an average of about 7 weeks, looking at the last 4 CAPs of Gen 4 is more than fast enough, already), but seeing as it's quite some time since we last did an actual CAP, it feels better to do CAP 2 first, and if we do need to discuss the process, let's discuss it after we have a finished CAP2, when the entire process and timelapse of the entire project is still fresh in mind.
Debating about a slow process and how to improve it, when we just had a few months hiatus seems off to me.
And looking at Theorymons current implementation of CAP's, I don't see a technical limitation either why we couldn't just start up CAP2 right away. I'm sure there is still a Kakuna, Feebas, or Magikarp slot he could overwrite with the new CAP 2! :D (Or Farfetch'd, since no one uses that, right! >:D)
Good work Theorymon for your funny solution, although in Trick Room, Harden Metapod is beast! :P
Although also very curious about this new framework Doug is building, I won't bother you about the details. It does sounds fun! And if all the time you invested in Shoddy wasn't enough already, now you're building a new framework from scratch, which, by the sounds of it, encompasses far more than just a simulator, and thus is probably an massive project to make. Therefore, my compliments for all your hard work and good luck.
Now as to the actual starting up of CAP, if we want to reboot CAP, I'd say, let's start CAP 2 pronto. No policy discussion beforehand, no nothing. Why?
Because of CAP 11, CAP 10, CAP 9 and CAP 8, for example. Two of these CAPs took 6 weeks and 3 days from start to final product. I also have the feeling at the moment that CAP is really slow, but I also realize that that feeling is definitely in part caused by the long pause both between the gen 4 and gen 5 transition (It took a while before we started making CAP 1 after our last Gen 4 CAP), and the silence the past few months up til now.
The process itself never felt slow to me, if I look back. Hell, at times, I remember - to the point of annoyance to others - that I would've liked to keep the discussion going for days, because I just like the lively discussions leading up to the final products.
Like Doug says, the current CAP process has been formed after countless trial and error runs over the previous CAPs. I might not have been around for the first five CAPs, but even after CAP 6, the process kept getting more and more streamlined until it is what it's now.
I'm sure we could think of ways to improve the current process or at least make it go more fast (although I feel that finishing CAPs in an average of about 7 weeks, looking at the last 4 CAPs of Gen 4 is more than fast enough, already), but seeing as it's quite some time since we last did an actual CAP, it feels better to do CAP 2 first, and if we do need to discuss the process, let's discuss it after we have a finished CAP2, when the entire process and timelapse of the entire project is still fresh in mind.
Debating about a slow process and how to improve it, when we just had a few months hiatus seems off to me.
And looking at Theorymons current implementation of CAP's, I don't see a technical limitation either why we couldn't just start up CAP2 right away. I'm sure there is still a Kakuna, Feebas, or Magikarp slot he could overwrite with the new CAP 2! :D (Or Farfetch'd, since no one uses that, right! >:D)
As far as the movepools, we've done a lot of work to fix that. Krillowatt's movepool was initially very large because the concept of Utility Counter demanded a fairly expansive movepool. I never thought Tomohawk's Level-Up Movepool was very elegant, but it won, so that's democracy for you.
In any case, it has been a long time since we had a Policy Review, so I think it is a good time to revisit that. There have been a few PR ideas floated around, but they were never posted.
A CAP 2 will be put into work soon. After a few discussions with some of the staff, we'll give you all something fresh to look forward to - CAP 2 will be allowing concepts for the Ubers metagame. Ubers has a much larger playerbase than it did in Gen 4, and has the advantage over OU of being very stable. There are almost no changes involving Dream World Abilities that could possibly change it that much (aside from abilities on existing Uber mons. Regenerator Ho-Oh and Multiscale Lugia anyone?)
So keep an eye out. I'm very busy at the moment but we have two fantastic ideas already.
In any case, it has been a long time since we had a Policy Review, so I think it is a good time to revisit that. There have been a few PR ideas floated around, but they were never posted.
A CAP 2 will be put into work soon. After a few discussions with some of the staff, we'll give you all something fresh to look forward to - CAP 2 will be allowing concepts for the Ubers metagame. Ubers has a much larger playerbase than it did in Gen 4, and has the advantage over OU of being very stable. There are almost no changes involving Dream World Abilities that could possibly change it that much (aside from abilities on existing Uber mons. Regenerator Ho-Oh and Multiscale Lugia anyone?)
So keep an eye out. I'm very busy at the moment but we have two fantastic ideas already.
Looks like I'm dropping in at the right time to see CAP at work then. I don't have too many usefull skills, but I will annoy everyone with my ideas for a pokémon, like every good noob should. (I'm using restraint to stop me from posting it right now, because I don't want to be a banned noob.)
3-4 things.
1-this is a discussion on getting CAP back on track.
2- read the rules, which states: 'DONT post like a fanboy noob'. you will be infracted (given a warning) if you do
3- this is a delicate operation. we have discussion's on what kind of CAP poke the new one should be, then decide on its type and stats, THEN get into spriting ideas. at leadt thats how i think it goes...
4- before you post any comments on CAP about anything, you should read some OU or UBER analysis's to help you get a better grasp of the metagame. scizor is a good one for offense, and blissey is a good one for support. just try to get some knowkedge of regular pokemon before you get into CAP. ok?
and finally- YES!!!!! CAP2 IS COMING!!!! *starts a party* i knew this would work! i just can see it now, all that, fakemon goodness. just so that we can get a better grasp of how pokemon actually works. im so proud *tear*
1-this is a discussion on getting CAP back on track.
2- read the rules, which states: 'DONT post like a fanboy noob'. you will be infracted (given a warning) if you do
3- this is a delicate operation. we have discussion's on what kind of CAP poke the new one should be, then decide on its type and stats, THEN get into spriting ideas. at leadt thats how i think it goes...
4- before you post any comments on CAP about anything, you should read some OU or UBER analysis's to help you get a better grasp of the metagame. scizor is a good one for offense, and blissey is a good one for support. just try to get some knowkedge of regular pokemon before you get into CAP. ok?
and finally- YES!!!!! CAP2 IS COMING!!!! *starts a party* i knew this would work! i just can see it now, all that, fakemon goodness. just so that we can get a better grasp of how pokemon actually works. im so proud *tear*
Thanks for not taking my humorous enhousiasm as a direct attempt to destroy everything you love. I can see why the project is attracting so many new members.
I'll sit still and keep my mouth shut untill its my turn to talk. I'm looking forward to contributing my ideas at the right time and place for them to be contributed.
I'll sit still and keep my mouth shut untill its my turn to talk. I'm looking forward to contributing my ideas at the right time and place for them to be contributed.
Stratos
Banned deucer.
If it counts for anything, some of us with >60 posts don't feel like elitists, and every member in CAP is a good member. You really can't hurt by spamming the process, because that's what brainstorming is about.
So happy that CAP2 will be up soon, Can't wait to help out!!!
CAP2 is a very exciting prospect indeed! It will be interesting to see how the suspect round voting in OU will play out into this. Furthermore, seeing some Uber ideas will be a lot of fun!
Theorymon, in terms of replacing already created Pokemon for a CAP (Metapod & friends), is there any way to create a new Pokemon for each Forme of a Pokemon? Because if so, then we could have up to 28 CAPs of Unown, which should be plenty of space to work with until Doug gets his fixin's together (which sounds awesome). Just a thought!
Theorymon, in terms of replacing already created Pokemon for a CAP (Metapod & friends), is there any way to create a new Pokemon for each Forme of a Pokemon? Because if so, then we could have up to 28 CAPs of Unown, which should be plenty of space to work with until Doug gets his fixin's together (which sounds awesome). Just a thought!
actually i can see this working out, learning how the new pokemon work together is interesting
that could be a problem, honestly
Its a very odd way to go about it if we did the unkown formes, we could turn off species clause on whatever ladder we are using. with a few good moderators and from the outside looking in CAP looks like a closeknit communities that would be able to keep people from abusing it.
Also I would love to get involved in a CAP process, and as someone who knows little about the metagame and history of CAP; I would love to be able to properly understand the history and reasoning of each. And maybe some stats to show how it happened.
As a final note, with over 10 very powerful viable pokemon, a separate metagame for them is proper.
Also I would love to get involved in a CAP process, and as someone who knows little about the metagame and history of CAP; I would love to be able to properly understand the history and reasoning of each. And maybe some stats to show how it happened.
As a final note, with over 10 very powerful viable pokemon, a separate metagame for them is proper.
I don't know if we can really curb the large movepool "problem" without access to tutor moves. If you go back to my movepool submission, you may notice that all but FIVE of the machine moves were (nearly) required by virtue of typing, move and ability comparisons with real Pokémon. The fact was that so many of the moves that we "needed" for this CAP weren't machine moves, so I had to stuff the level-up and egg movepool with them. (And I didn't even add Scratch! Sorry about that, Scratchet...) I just think that there are bigger balance/realism issues that we can concentrate on and actually be in a good position to address. Obviously there's an extent to which movepools can be shrunk, and I believe that we went on the right track with Tomohawk in that regard. I'll always try use an "opt-in" mentality when submitting movepools and I'll encourage other submitters to do the same.
I don't actually think movepools are a problem at all anymore. That problem is a relic from before we did the final set of CAP revisions and handled all of the overflowing moves in movepools. After those revisions, we've been really, really good at keeping things to a "what's needed" level. Just look at Voodoom and Tomohawk. Okay, I really don't like Tomohawk's movepool, but competitively it is right where it needs to be and not a smidge over. It just has some lulz flavor is all, but hey, that's what people liked and voted for, so that's what the community wanted. That's how CAP operates.
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