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Getting ready for VGC'13

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Slowkingisking, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. Slowkingisking

    Slowkingisking

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2012
    Messages:
    11
    So basically I've liked trick room ever since my first battle on the gts when i got smoked by a Tr team that didn't seem very good at all. Since then Ive Made a few trick room teams, but this team has proven itself to be very good for me.

    Team building process:

    I started with dusclops as it is in my opinion the bulkiest trick room user in the game when holding eviolite, it can in most cases take two super effective hits and survive.

    The next to be added was conkeldurr, my favourite trick room attacker, and the heart of this team. Although lacking fake out, with massive attack, and good bulk he can stick around for a long time.

    With good defensive coverage against conkeldurrs two weaknesses as well as a very high attack stat of its own, metagross plays a similar role as conkeldurr, hard hitting pokemon, with a priority move, and some ability to last.

    At this point my team is missing both a special attacker, and a resistance to fire types. Although not my first thought heatran has an an immunity to fire, great special attack and a good spread move.

    With an obvious weakness to earthquake, it was obvious i needed something imune to it. I also needed something to be able to get rid ground types in general. Gyarados seemed to be the perfect answer with the ability to get rid of many of the counters to my team, as well as giving intimidate support.

    Finally, the last spot on my team is currently inhabited by cresselia. Cresselia gives me a second tr user, as well as many options for support moves.

    In place of cresselia i also tried porygon z, porygon2, chandelure, dragonite, jellicent, scrafty (who was pretty helpful), mamoswine (also very helpful), breloom, amoongus (really good but spore spamming got boring), and dragonite.

    The Team

    [​IMG]

    Dusclops @eviolite
    Nature: sassy
    Ability: pressure
    EVs: 252Hp/176Def/80SpDef
    0 Spd ivs

    -trick room
    -will-o-wisp
    -pain split
    -night shade

    My primary trick room user. His main purpose is to set up tick room. After that he helps the team by will-o-wisping the other team, eating away at the health of the other team with night shade. Pain split lets dusclops last much longer while aslo dealing damage to the other team.

    [​IMG]

    Conkeldurr @leftovers
    Naturre: Brave
    Ability: guts
    Evs: Hp252/Atk252/SpDef4
    0 Spd ivs

    -drain punch
    -ice punch
    -mach punch
    -protect

    Like i said the heart of this team, i also often refer to him as the dragon slayer, because of his ability to one hit all dragons not running a defensive set (minus kingdra). With leftovers and drain punch he lasts ridiculously long. I prefer hp evs over an individual defensive stat as it will help defensively in all situations rather then from only physical or special. Mach punch is also helpful as it still deals a lot of damage to most pokes and has priority. I often lead with dusclops and conkeldurr and around one third of my battles with this team have been won with just conkeldurr and dusclops.

    [​IMG]

    Gyarados @Life orb
    Nature: brave
    Ability: intimidate
    Evs: Hp252/Atk152/SpDef100
    0 Spd Ivs

    -Waterfall
    -stone edge
    -taunt
    -protect

    waterfall is the stab move of choice, and along with stone edge gyarados gets good coverage. Gyarados is an especially good counter to chandelure who stops my conkeldurr very well. Taunt can be helpful in many situations, such as getting rid of spore leads who can destroy the team by sleeping the trick room lead. Brelloom is still a problem as it will out speed my gyarados when trick room is up.

    With zero speed ivs and a hindering speed nature, gyarados is slow enough to be effective in trick room (this is also true for the rest of my pokemon on this team).

    [​IMG]

    Heatran @air balloon
    Nature: Quiet
    Ability: flash fire
    Evs: Hp252/SpAtk252/Def4
    0 Spd Ivs

    -Protect
    -Heat wave
    -Earth power
    -Hidden power grass

    Heatran has a very good special attack and is a good counter to apposing steel types, and fire types. Air ballon gives it an extra turn (generaly) to be safe from ground attacks. Dragons dont give my team much trouble, so i prefer hp grass over ice, as it can help get rid gastrodon and other water types if heatran gets a chance to attack them.

    [​IMG]

    Metagross @lum berry
    Nature: brave
    Ability: clear body
    Evs: Hp252/Atk252/Def4
    0 Spd ivs

    -Zen Headbutt
    -Bullet Punch
    -Protect
    -Earthquake

    A very good pokemon overall. Lum berry is needed to rid it of burn or sleep, which would both otherwise stop metagross quickly. Zen headbutt is a great stab move helpful for taking out fighting types, and earthquake is a good stab move. i chose priority over power in bullet punch as more often than not the extra power of meteor mash is not needed.

    [​IMG]

    Cresselia @sitrus berry
    Nature: Relaxed
    Ability: levitate
    Evs: Hp 252/Def252/SpDef4
    0Spd ivs

    -trick room
    -light screen
    -swagger
    -shadow ball

    Cresselia is often considered the best tr user but, i much prefer dusclops. The only situations i use cresselia is if the opponent has nothing to hurt it. However this is uncommon as she is such a common poke in vgc. And when i do use her i usually just fool around and swagger my metagross, and set up light screen. The reason i tought her shadow ball rather then a stab move was to be able to beat other cresselia. I am very willing to give her a different set or switch her out because sh is not essential to my team.



    Threats to the team:

    no pokemon can individually take out the team but there are some combinations that will hurt the team bad off the start.
    Weavile+breloom: if the weavile fake outs my conkeldurr or whatever else i lead with and the breloom spores my dusclops turn 1, then the breloom can easily out speed or take any of my priority moves and spore my second pokemon turn 2. The only way i can counter this is with the lum berry on my metagross who will wake up from sleep and be able to 1 hit breloom with zen headbutt.

    any two pokemon that have a powerful stab dark or ghost move: dusclops cannot take both a crunch from a ttar and a dark pulse from a hydregion. Although this lead is uncommon i have experienced it. Fortunately conkeldurr can 1-hit tyranitar with mach punch or 1-hit most other dark types.

    other trick room teams: if the other team has slower pokes then mine i will generally try to counter this by using my trick room to keep the dimensions normal. Otherwise try to out power the other team with my strong attacking pokemon.

    Taunt users: Taunt prevents me from setting up trick room yes, but when i start with my usual dusclops and conkeldurr all of the more common taunt users like tornadus and weavile are 1-hit by either of conkeldurrs attacks.

    Current record on the gts is 86 wins and 4 losses, with no rage quits by me, and countless rage quits by others which would have otherwise lead to a win for me. I know that there are a lot of bad people on the gts, but it has still done well. I dont have pokemon online so i havent tried it there yet.
  2. Marowak2000

    Marowak2000

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    Messages:
    17
    good TR team, only 2 comments based on what i've used with some luck under TR.
    1st is using Marowak or Ryhperior as a partner for Gyarados as their lightning rod ability makes Gyara an absolute monster. i'v been using Gyara in TR for years and u'll get a load more rage quits when people can't OHKO or Para him like they thought they were about to! 2nd is if conkeldurr works for you then keep him but i went for Machamp as no guard dynamic punch can help u set up TR again when the opp pkmn are confused/switching out to lose confusion (i also gave him elemental punches for the great coverage) ..and breloom used to well p**s me of as well! good luck with the team
  3. tlyee61

    tlyee61

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    377
    On Dusclops, Cresselia and Gyarados, do the EVs help survive against anything? If not, consider optimizing their EV Spreads with http://honko.byethost8.com/manly_calc.html

    On Metagross move the 4 EVs into Defense to be 3HKOed by other Metagross' EQs.

    p.s.: nice Heatran pic xD
  4. Slowkingisking

    Slowkingisking

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2012
    Messages:
    11
    so i changed the metagross and cresselia, with the current spread on gyarados, it is able to sponge the special attacks fairly well that really hurt metagross, and conkeldurr. and the 152 atk allows for some needed 2hko

    ill try out marowak, i used rhyperior for a bit, but found that it was far too week to special attacks, increasing the special weekness of the team. the gyarados isn't really used as one of my primary pokemon, he is a supporter. its main purposes are intimidate support and a bit of coverage on the offensive and defensive side. it also has an earthquake immunity which is quite helpful. Because he only is brought out in specific situations (such as against a sand team), he isnt subjected to many electric attacks, so it would be almost pointless to add an extra pokemon to support a support pokemon.
  5. tlyee61

    tlyee61

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    377
    and what specific 2HKOes are those?
  6. Snarbolax

    Snarbolax

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2012
    Messages:
    3
    Looks like a decent team, although you may want to consider...

    Amoonguss. Rage Powder is amazing in TR teams, and may as well be a staple. It would allow Dusclops to easily set up without it getting interrupted by something like Taunt, which you really have no power against.

    Yes, Spore is annoying, but only if you aren't using it! After Trick Room, Amoonguss will be able to outspeed almost everything in VGC '13. And so, the spamming of Spore begins! Trust me, sleep is extremely useful in these quick VGC battles and can usually be a game-winner.

    The mushroom of doom (that rhymed, haha! eh.. yeah whatever) also somewhat covers your "special defensively weak" side of your team, as I think you've said you had. Gyarados especially loves Amoonguss because of its ability to wall Electric-type moves.

    The moveset and EV's are up to you, I suppose. Whatever floats your boat. Hope I helped-- good luck in the VGC this year!
  7. Marowak2000

    Marowak2000

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    Messages:
    17
    btw im no maths genius and u may want to double check but due to the whole level 50 ev's being halved so odd numbers can waste ev points thing 76 Spd ev's will still give him a total of 176 and you can move his Def stat up one to 173 with 182 ev's ...on Dusclops
  8. TheMantyke

    TheMantyke DISRESPECT YOUR SUPERIORS
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus
    VGC Leader

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Messages:
    5,536
    Alright, here are a few general tips and recommendations fro me.

    It's good to create a trick room team that doesn't necessarily always rely on trick room. Relying on any form of set up in VGC is a formula for disaster as you'll occasionally have to work without it. For this reason, I suggest you change your natures to the standard non -Speed natures on all of your Pokemon but Cresselia. IE, Adamant on Metagross, Modest on Heatran, etc. A big change I have in mind with Gyarados will hopefully clear that up a little.

    So, on to the specific recommendations.

    Thunder Wave > Stone Edge and Wacan Berry > Life Orb on Gyarados
    Thunder Wave allows your team to take an alternate route in making sure you're faster than everyone else. With your team's middling speed, you can set up Trick Room or Thunder Wave opponents based on

    Perism Berry or Flame Orb over Leftovers on Conkeldurr
    Conkeldurr loves the Guts boost and isn't bulky enough to use leftovers very effectively Other Pokemon really appreciate them. a Perism Berry allows Conkeldurr to be an alternate recipient of Cresselia's Swaggers while still being susceptible to other status inflictions to power your Guts boost. Heck, you can even Thunder Wave your own Conkeldurr if you're feeling lucky with the paralysis chance. Flame Orb will give you a consistent boost but subtracts from your HP substantially.

    Leftovers > Air Balloon and Substitute > HP Grass on Heatran
    Air Balloon is a very unreliable item in a rule set filled with spread moves and Fake Out. Not being able to Earthquake with Metagross is a bit of a draw back, but Heatran can target many of the same things Metagross is after with Earthquake with Heat Wave anyway. I would suggest dropping it in favor of Leftovers and scrapping Hidden Power Grass for Substitute. You won't be able to hit Gastrodon as efficiently, but you have several other Pokemon smashing it with strong neutral hits. Substitute on the the other hand allows you to capitalize on situations where your opponent isn't able to hit Heatran for strong neutral or super effective damage (which pop up pretty frequently with Heatran's stellar typing).

    Meteor Mash > Bullet Punch on Metagross
    Under Cresselia's Trick Room or after Gyarados has paralyzed everything, you're moving first most of the time. Meteor Mash allows you to put a heavy dent in anything, especially when Swagger boosted.

    Also, adding onto my earlier recommendation about retooling your natures to work in and out of Trick Room, Change Metagross's nature and IVs to Adamant and 14 Speed. If you do this, Metagross will be just one point faster than Cresselia, allowing you to attack right after you've been swaggered in Trick Room.

    Psychic / Psyshock >>>>> Shadow Ball
    Shadow Ball shouldn't be your first answer to enemy Cresselia, Swagger and your partner Pokemon should. Psychic is a huge help versus Hitmontop and gives you a fine STAB move

    Hydreigon > Dusclops
    Dusclops + Cresselia is very iffy. You're dedicating two Pokemon to almost raw support which makes your team less interchangeable. I would suggest picking one or the other to use. Personally, I'd go with Cresselia as Dusclops is complete taunt bait.

    Additionally, you don't have anything here that can hit Cresselia for super effective damage (although Heatran can wall it behind a substitute). I think that Hydreigon would be a pretty decent replacement. It offers you something that can hit everything including Cresselia very hard, another useful water resistance, another Pokemon immune to Earthquake, loves Paralysis support, and pairs well with nearly every single other member of the team, sharing few weaknesses between them all. I would recommend a set along the lines of:

    Hydreigon @ Life Orb
    Levitate
    Modest
    252 HP / 252 SpAtk / 6 SpDef
    -Draco Meteor
    -Dark Pulse
    -Earth Power / Flamethrower
    -Protect

    You're free to get more complicated with the EVs if you want to KO specific threats or live certain hits, this is just a general filler EV spread.

    The move set is fairly self explanatory; you have a wide coverage array and the power to hit virtually anything for strong damage.

    Hope my advice helped!
  9. ArcDeus

    ArcDeus

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2010
    Messages:
    235
    That's actually a nice bit of help for anyone reading this, thanks a lot Mantyke :)
  10. Slowkingisking

    Slowkingisking

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2012
    Messages:
    11
    so first of all id like to say thanks to mantyke for the in depth comment, as well as everyone else who commented, ive made many the changes suggested, and seem to be working just as well if not better. ill attempt to make the changes in the original post in red.

    Also id like to point out how well hydreigon has done for me so far. i still find dusclops more consistant in being able to set up tr, but now the team doesnt need it as much.

    The Team

    [​IMG]
    Hydreigon @ Life Orb
    Levitate
    Modest
    252 HP / 252 SpAtk / 6 SpDef

    -Draco Meteor
    -Dark Pulse
    -Flamethrower
    -Protect


    [​IMG]

    Conkeldurr @ flame orb
    Naturre: adamant
    Ability: guts
    Evs: Hp252/Atk252/SpDef4

    -drain punch
    -ice punch
    -mach punch
    -protect

    [​IMG]

    Gyarados @wacan berry
    Nature: Adamant
    Ability: intimidate
    Evs: 252 HP / 96 Atk / 140 Def / 20 SpD


    -Waterfall
    -thunder wave
    -taunt
    -protect

    [​IMG]

    Heatran @leftovers
    Nature: modest
    Ability: flash fire
    Evs: Hp252/SpAtk252/Def4

    -Protect
    -Heat wave
    -Earth power
    -Hidden power grass

    [​IMG]
    Metagross @lum berry
    Nature: adament
    Ability: clear body
    Evs: Hp14/Atk252/Def4
    0 Spd ivs

    -Zen Headbutt
    -meteor mash
    -Protect
    -Earthquake

    [​IMG]

    Cresselia @sitrus berry
    Nature: Relaxed
    Ability: levitate
    Evs: Hp 252/Def252/SpDef4
    0Spd ivs

    -trick room
    -light screen
    -swagger
    -psychic

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