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Gev V Hail

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by jrp, Jan 19, 2011.

  1. jrp

    jrp wanker of the highest order

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    5th Gen Hail Guide
    By JonathanRP

    Introduction to Hail
    Drizzle, Drought and Sandstorm. At the moment, the current metagame almost completely revolves around these three weather conditions, with the massive offensive threat each of these conditions provides. However, there is one more weather condition available, that being Hail. This guide will help you to understand the mechanics and uses of Hail.

    Hail is a weather condition that is activated when either of two conditions are accomplished. The main way to activate Hail is to use a Pokemon with the ability Snow Warning. There are two Pokemon who have this ability, Snover and Abomasnow. Snow Warning causes the weather to change to Hail, which is a permanent effect, assuming that nothing cancels it out, such as another instant weather Pokemon, or the usage of weather move, such as Sunny Day.
    Hail deals 6% damage to any Pokemon that is not Ice typed, or that does not have the ability Magic Guard or Overcoat. Hail also grants 20% evasion to any Pokemon with the ability Snow Cloak, and Ice Body heals a Pokemon 1/16 of its max health at the end of every turn. Blizzard also becomes 100% accurate while Hail is active.

    Building Your Hail Team

    A common misconception (and perhaps one of the reasons that Hail is not as popular as the other weather conditions) is that Hail teams must be mono-ice typed. This is not true. While Ice type Pokemon are immune to hail, having a pure Ice team is basically suicide in the metagame, with the prevalence of insanely powerful fighting-type physical attackers in the current metagame, such as Conkeldurr.. A successful Hail team will have a lot of variety in the typing that is used. One of of the top priorities of anyone constructing a Hail team is to include Pokémon that are able to eliminate other instant weather Pokemon. Abomasnow itself is able to do a decent job of this, as its typing gives it super-effective coverage against three of the four Pokemon with these abilities. Its Grass STAB allows it to hit Tyranitar, Hippowdon and Politoed super-effectivly, while its Ice typing allows it to do more damage to Hippowdon (with Blizzard). Abomasnow is also fortunate enough to have access to Earthquake, and while Earthquake won't be OHKOing Ninetales unless you're running Choice Band, after entry hazards such as Stealth Rock, you have a good shot at OHKOing Ninetales without resorting to a Choice Band.




    [​IMG]
    Abomasnow
    The staple of any Hail team. Abomasnow has the misfortune of having 7 weaknesses, which often overshadow the use that it provides. However most of the time, Abomasnow will only be used to provide Hail. Abomasnow has many things going for it though. Abomasnow is graced with access to 2 100% accurate 120 BP STAB moves, those moves being Blizzard and Wood Hammer. Coupled with Abomasnow's decent 92/92 offenses, Abomasnow can cause a dent in most Pokemon, however, you'll generally only be OHKOing Pokemon that are weak to his STAB moves. Abomasnow
    has the option of using Swords Dance, but Abomasnow is too weak defensively and too slow to pull a set off successfully.
    Defensive Hail
    Since Hail is primarily used for Stall, you will want to have a good defensive backing on your team. Sadly, Hail is one of the worst defensive types, boasting a grand total one one resistance, while having four weaknesses. However, there are many Ice type Pokemon that have good bulk that are able to stall out well.



    [​IMG]
    Walrein
    Another staple of Hail teams, Walrein, while completely outclassed outside of Hail, is one of the most potent Hail stallers there is. With its ability, Ice Body, Walrein gains 1/16 of its maximum HP at the end of every turn. Adding this together with Leftovers, Walrein is able to put up a Substitute and use Protect, regaining the HP it lost from using Substitute. Combine this with the opponent taking damage from Hail, and the move Toxic, and Walrein can stall out half of the opponent's team.

    Possible Set:
    Walrein@Leftovers
    Ice Body

    Surf/Blizzard
    Toxic
    Protect
    Substitute
    Bold Nature
    4 HP/ 252 Def/ 252 SpDef


    [​IMG]
    Rotom-F
    Rotom-F was a great Pokemon to use in 4th generation, and it has become even more useful in 5th gen. The Rotom forms now gain the type of their special move as a secondary typing, giving Rotom-F the godsend in typing, STAB on the infamous BoltBeam combo, as well as immunity to hail damage.
    A STAB Blizzard at 100% accuracy coming off of a base 105 special attack stat hurts, and Rotom-H even has great defenses to boot. A decent speed allows it to outspeed all unboosted weather summoning Pokemon, with the exception of Ninetales. Blizzard can OHKO Hippowdon, and Rotom-F can cripple Tyranitar with Will-O-Wisp. Politoed takes massive damage from Thunderbolt.

    Possible Set:
    Rotom-F@Leftovers
    Blizzard
    Thunderbolt
    Will-O-Wisp
    Shadow Ball/Hidden Power Fighting
    Timid Nature
    4 hp / 252 SpA /252 Spe


    [​IMG]
    Articuno
    While Articuno's movepool hasn't seen any improvements to mention, Articuno gets the ability Snow Cloak from the Dream World. Couple that with Articuno's fantastic bulk, and you get a fantastic staller. A combination of Substitute, Roost, Blizzard and Toxic can completely wear down your opponent's team.


    Rankurusu:

    Possible Set
    Reuniculus@Leftovers/Life Orb
    Calm Mind
    Recover
    Psycho Shock/Psychic
    Focus Blast

    Regice

    Threats:
  2. jrp

    jrp wanker of the highest order

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    Well, if anyone wants to help out at all, you're welcome to.
  3. AasTmO

    AasTmO

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    on Articuno, a 4x SR weakness is quite crippling.. if something phazes it, you're doomed because it's nearly impossible to get back in, unless you have rapid spin support.
    Given that (nearly) all Ice pokes have a SR weakness, rapid spin should be in there anyhow.. You could get Tentacruel into the team options for this purpose, and for placing Tspikes. It has viability over Forretress because it walls the firetypes (Blaziken and friends) that an average hailstall team has troubles with, and considerably more bulk that Starmie.

    Also Roob for breaking steals.
  4. zdrup15

    zdrup15
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    I agree. Tentacruel is one of the best partners for Hail teams. It brings a fighting-type and fire-type resistances and can spin away SR. It can also set up TS that help Stallrein do its job.

    Defensive Starmie can be used as a spinner instead because it has great sinergy.

    Froslass can be mentioned as a spiker and annoyer with its ability Sand Cloak.

    You can also link the pokes to their analysis on Smogon to help people who are beginning to play with Hail choosing the sets.
  5. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    Delko's an excellent hail stall user on smogon so its worth it to have a chat to him johnathan if your stuck.

    Small list off the top of my head

    No Regice? Gets Ice body and its an excellent Special Wall. Gliscor and Heatran should both get mentions as they check Fighting and Fire attacks. Gyarados gets a special mention for taking both those and acting as a wall + phaser with Rest/Sleep Talk/D-Tail.

    Nidoqueen and Tentacruel both remove Toxic Spikes (a major bitch to Hail) and can set them backup.

    Kyurem is also worth a look. Often used in an offensive role but it can run screens or phase with D-Tail if need be. Its Blizzard packs a punch and Pressure is annoying

    Latias I guess can get a mention again for checking Fire + Fighting. It too can run support sets or a CM set if you want your Hail team to have a cleaner or something.

    Lv 1 magic guard pokemon *could* get a mention to pull off that Lv 1 abuse thing.

    Fighting types such as Roob, even Hariyama to check T-Tar is important

    and I guess ghosts such as Evo Stone Dusclops, Desukan, even Sableye are worth mentioning as they provide a means of blocking spin (I guess Rapid Spin is not as common though).

    Nattorei, Deoxys D and maybe S can set up both SR and Spikes if you need. Though Forretress might be better.

    Oh and if your suggesting Articuno then perhapes Zapdos should get a comment for Sub Roosting without that massive Rock weakness. Moltress too can run a similar set checking steels and walling many of the sun sweepers (again, annoying to Hail).

    Lastly Espeon and Xatu have Magic Mirror to reflect hazards and stuff. Xatu is also an excellent check to Breloom and most fighters while supporting the team well.
  6. jrp

    jrp wanker of the highest order

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    Regice should be on the list, I must have taken him off, planning to give him a little description and forgot to actually add said description.

    I mention Articuno specifically because of its ability. All it needs to spam substitute, and once the opponent misses, either roost/toxic/blizzard and start the process over again.
  7. Omicron

    Omicron
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    Blizzard has only a 10% chance of freezing, not 30%.
  8. jrp

    jrp wanker of the highest order

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    Facepalm, I was reading the Bulbapedia article wrong
  9. Cudder

    Cudder

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    It would be cool if you would add some Movesets, or link the names to the appropriate move sets so people who are new to Hail Stall get a hang of it.

    Also strong fire pokemon like Shandera or Darmatian should be added to the danger list, but shandera might be useful as support as well as it got high special attack and covers fire and steel damage.Furthermore Ulgamoth is quite a threat as well having good Speed and Great Special attack it can easily sweep a Hail team, so we would need some new counters.
    And then Various Sandstorm/Sun threats should be noted down, Excadrill for an example, if he's on sword dance backed by Sandstorm I don't see many Hail Teams being able to take care of him.
    I found out that Dugtrio was doing quite well as a revenge killer to get rid of Tyranitar/Heatran and now it can probably do well against Ninetales.
    For me Yirachi was a pain in the a** any ideas how to get rid of him?As well as Viciti, I can see him being used against hail or with hail, stopping steel,fighting and fire, if he doesn't get hit by the infamous ban stick.

    And last, what will the 5th Gen hold for the future of Hail Stall?Will it once again be a Rogue Team?Outclassed and outnumbered by other Teams?Sun/Rain/Sandstorm?Are the new Pokemon more of a Threat or a gain?
    Which new pokemon do you see being used by Hail Teams?Tsunbear?Baibanira?Furiijio?
    Because firstly we got to analyze in which state hail teams are going to be before we can decide which pokemon to use.
  10. jrp

    jrp wanker of the highest order

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    Yeah, I've been working on specific teams that I've been testing.

    I've been using Ice Body Regice a ton.
    That thing is incredible for a stall pokemon. It EASILY outclasses Walrein.

    I have to say, seeing as Drizzle took a hit in the rules set up, I can't see Drizzle teams being a threat at ALL to hail.

    Sun is always a problem, but Ninetales is extremely frail, to the point that anything can dent it.
    Honestly, the new Pokemon aren't exactly stellar for hail.
    Glaceon and Regice are the new Walreins, pretty much

    Hail is going to be pure stall, like it was last generation. Hail offers no offensive benefits whatsoever, so you have to take advantage of the defensive uses it brings.
  11. Korski

    Korski Distilled, 80 proof
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    Watch out saying Rotom-F can cripple Tyranitar with WoW. Most Tar nowadays are SpD heavy and offensively mixed with Flamethrower/Fire Blast, so they'll typically come out on top with the slightest SpA investment, not to mention it removes the hail that makes Blizzard so accurate. Granted, you could burn Tar then switch out to Walrein or Regice, probably survive the potential Superpower, and continue stalling briefly, but you'll have to get Abomasnow back in posthaste (but again, watch out for Fire Blast). SpD Mixtar is a huge threat to Hail stall and should be strongly prioritized in the analysis as such.
  12. jrp

    jrp wanker of the highest order

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    indeed. I've been doing like non-stop playtesting for awhile now, working with team combos.

    The current standard OU team I'm using at this time is:
    Abomasnow
    Walrein
    Roobushin
    Starmie
    Rankurusu
    Rotom-F

    Naturally, Roob is the generic fighting type tyranitar counter.
  13. magikot

    magikot

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    How would a physically defensive Mandibuzz work out on a Hail Stall team? The introduction of Overcoat seems especially suited to Hail stall teams.

    Mandibuzz @ Leftovers
    Ability: Overcoat
    Nature: Impish
    Move 1: Roost
    Move 2: Toxic
    Move 3: Protect
    Move 4: Brave Bird
    EV: 252 HP/252 Defense/4 Attack

    Or she can go specially defensive with a careful nature and SpDef EVs.

    Or a bulky sweeper like set:

    Mandibuzz @ Life Orb
    Ability: Overcoat
    Nature: Modest
    Move 1: Nasty Plot
    Move 2: Roost
    Move 3: Dark Pulse
    Move 4: Air Slash
    EV: 252 HP/252 SpA/4 Def

    With only 80 Base Speed she isn't going to be outspeeding anything any time soon. She's naturally bulky and with access to NP to boost her abysmal 55 base SpA. Roost to heal off LO damage. STAB moves could have better coverage with both attacks being resisted by most steels and Ttar, but they have the added bonus of possibly flinching.

    SR weakness obviously poses a problem to a flier but with Starmie, Tentacruel and Overcoat Forry it shouldn't be too hard to get rid of hazards.
  14. jrp

    jrp wanker of the highest order

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    Hmm, that's interesting. I'll have to test her a bit.

    Overcoat is a great ability for weather stall teams this generation, although, tbh, sturdy Forry seems to be better than overcoat, with the whole sturdy buff this gen.
  15. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
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    The biggest thing about hail (and sun) teams is the weakness to stealth rock. I really don't know what gamefreak was doing making stealth rock = to 3 layers of spikes damage to a pokemon weak to it. It really hurts when you're trying to win the weather war.
  16. AZCorazon

    AZCorazon

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    Wouldn't Vanilluxe be a good addition? The hail heals its health consistently, so it may be one to consider.
  17. Delko

    Delko "ghost mod"
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    Hey cool guide,

    I got a couple of suggestions,

    First, just as Sandstorm Stall you don't only have to use pokemon immune to Hail. Leftovers and/ or a solid recovery move is more then enough. Just as Sandstorm-, Sun- and Rain stall teams you have to make sure you have a counter to all pokemon. Here are some pokemon that work efficiently on a (Hail) stall team:

    ----- Combinations -----

    - Skarmory + Blissey: SkarmBliss is an effective core on a stall team, Being the best Physical + Special wall they make a solid pair on a Hail stall team. Skarmory can lay down Spikes and Phaze with Whirlwind, while Blissey can spread status around with Toxic or Thunder Wave, she can also provide team support with Wish and Aromatherapy/ Heal Bell. Blissey is prefered over Chansey because the loss of Leftover is big.

    - Gliscor + Tentacruel: Gliscor and Tentacruel are another solid combination to be used on a Hail stall team. Tentacruel can Rapid Spin and absorb + lay down Toxic Spikes. Hex is a good move to to hit Anti Spinner with, especially when they are poisoned. Liquide Ooze is a somewhat cool ability to abuse against Leech Seeders. Gliscor counters the biggest threat to Hail teams, Tyranitar and Lucario, among other gen 5 pokemon as well. Gliscor resists SE moves against Tentacruel and vice. Gliscor got Poison Heal this generation so it can act as a status absorber as well. It also has access to Stealth Rock. Both Gliscor and Tentacruel also has access to Knock Off to Knock Off Leftovers.

    - Gliscor + Jellicent + Blissey: This 3 guy core is pretty effective as it shuts down most teams in the current metagame. Jellicent makes and excellent addition to Hail stall but also stall teams in general. It has the Ghost typing to block Rapin Spin and it's also one of the best counters to Mixed Blaziken.

    ----- Individuals -----

    - Clefable: Clefable acts as the same special wall Blissey does but with immunity to Hail. It might take Special hits slightly less good but it does have Encore to make up for it. Encore forces alot of switcher and it is a great way to abuse entry hazards.

    - Hitmontop: Hitmontop has several useful abilities for a Hail team. Most importantly it has access to Rapid Spin (and Foresight), which is obligatory on a decent Hail team. Secondly it has a resistance to Rock type moves, which Ice-types despise. Hitmontop also has Intimidate to screw over opposing Physical attackers. Mach Punch is a useul move to hit Tyranitar and Excadrill hard, both are pretty big theats to (Hail) stall. Unfortunatly Hitmontop's only way of recovery is through Wish passing or Rest, which could be helped by using a Status Healer on your team.

    - Forretress: Although Forretress shares a 4X weakness to Fire, he also has access to Rapid Spin / (Toxic) Spikes and Stealth Rock. Being part Steel type he can find enough occasion to switch-in and do his thing. It should be mentioned here that Forretress has the DreamWorld ability Overcoat which prevent damage from Hail.

    - Starmie: Starmie is also a good option to use on a Hail stall team. It has access to Rapid Spin, is part Water type and has good Speed and move coverage. Having Recover in it's movepool is also a good advantage.

    - Vaporeon: Because of Vaporeon's massive HP stat is can pass huge Wishes to you other members. Vaporeon is a Bulky Water and it can take on many threats that are dangerous to stall teams (Mixape). It can Toxic opposing threats and Wish-stall it to death. It also has Roar for Phazing so entry hazards can be abused. Vaporeon can learn Blizzard and actually has a pretty good SAtk stat.

    - Milotic: Milotic is a good status absorber and phazer with Dragon Tail. Rest + Sleep Talk is a good strategy on Milotic to activate Marvel Scale Just as Vaporeon it can come in on a threat, Toxic it and Reststall it until it switches or dies. Being a Bulky Water it can easily take the Fire moves aimed at Abomasnow.

    - Gyarados: Gyarados makes a good defensive pokemon on a Hail team with his decent bulk and access to Intimidate. It can also use the very effective RestTalk set with Dragon Tail or Roar for Phazing. His Water typing allows him to take Fire attack pretty nicely.

    - Rotom-w: Rotom-w is also a good option for a stall team. It has great typing and a useful ability. It can use Dual Screens for team support or spread around Burns with Will-o-wisp.

    - Chandelure: Chandelure with Flash Fire makes a great candidate for Hail stall teams. It can easily come in a Fire attack and then cause some damage with a pretty impressive SAtk stat and a boost. Chandelure is also part Ghost type so it can also block Rapid Spin.

    - Spiritomb: Spiritomb is a good addition to a (Hail) stall team for a couple of reasons. First it acts as a good Spin Blocker, but it also is the best counter the Reuniclus, which is a major threat to stall teams because it is unafected by residual damage. Lastly is has access to Pressure and with no weaknesses and nice natural bulk it can easily PP stall with RestTalk if needed.

    - Deoxys-D: Deoxys-d has amazing defenses so it can wall quite a but and it can heal of taken damage with Recover. it can learn Spikes / Stealth to lay down entry hazards. Knock Off is useful to remove opposing Leftovers.

    - Heatran: Heatran has unique typing and pretty good defenses. It can switch into any Fire attack with ease. Heatran has access to Stealth Rock and Roar but with Toxic Spikes support TormentTran is effective as well.

    - Hariyama: Hariyama makes a pokemon to use on Hail stall team. It is pretty bulky and it has the ability Thick Fat. It can use an effective RestTalk set with Whirlwind for Phazing or Force Palm to spread paralysis.

    - Excadrill: Excadrill is a good counter to opposing Sandstorm teams. It resists Rock 4X and because it's Steel it could a lot of free turns. Excadrill can also learn Rapid Spin.

    - Nidoqueen: Nidoqueen also make a good addition to Hail stall team. it can lay down Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes (also absorb them). She can also Phaze with Roar or Dragon Tail. Nidoqueen has excellent typing making it able to take Fighting and Rock type moves aimed at your other Ice types relatively ease.

    - Claydol: Claydol is useful on Hail teams as it can set up Stealth Rock and Spin them away with Rapid Spin. It can also set up Dual Screen. Levitate and his Ground/ Psychic typing gives a lot of useful resistances for Hail teams.

    You could also mention that Hail stall is a very effective stall form because a lot of Pokémon are immune to Sandstorm but only Ice type are immune to Hail and they aren't common at all.

    Hope this helped and good luck with the guide! ^^
  18. Delko

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  19. masterful

    masterful

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    Ttar can't actually KO Reuniclus 100% of the time even with CB and Max Attack Adamant.

    Maybe you should just make this a general guide to hail in general and discuss both offensive styles and stall styles of teams in the article.
  20. Delko

    Delko "ghost mod"
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    Is this still being worked on?
  21. Magus

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    I understand that this is a new generation, and I haven't been able to play online since the days of Shoddy, I must say that Zapdos is(or was) an excellent addition to any Hail team. It is able to stall many Steel types that are a serious threat to your pokemon, especially Scizor, while having massive damage potential to the opposing team. Stealth Rock/Rock-Type weaknesses can always be a problem, but this can easily be covered by other members of the team. It served me very well, even more so then Rotom-F.

    Zapdos@Leftovers
    Pressure

    Move Set:
    ThunderBolt
    Heat Wave
    Roost
    Thunder Wave/Substitute.

    Bold nature:
    248 HP / 228 Def / 32 Spe

    I started off Zapdos with Thunder Wave when I started using Hail Teams, I switched to Substitute later when Toxic Spikes/Toxic was available on my team. (Through Tentacruel and Walrein respectively.) It's still an option if you feel the need to Paralyze Poison and Steel-types, however.
  22. Delko

    Delko "ghost mod"
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    True, and I've found Tentacruel and Zapdos (with Lightning Rod) to be a good pair, resisting each other weaknesses. Tentacruel also has Rapid Spin for Stealth Rocks and it resists Fire that troubles Hail teams.
  23. Júlio Seviper Zucca

    Júlio Seviper Zucca

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    If you're still working on it, I used Hail a lot of times in this new Generation, and if I can give you my opinion, a good Pokémon for this kind of team is Sharpedo. You can use it as a Revenge Killer, with his new Ability (Speed Boost) you often can have it faster than an Excadrill, even under Sandstorm (in the bad hipotesys that you lost your hail to sandstorm), and Sharpedo's Waterfall One Hit-KOs Excadrill. Is a good Chandelure Counter, altough it's One Hit-KOed by a Specs Overheat you still can Protect to activate your Speed Boost and then finish it.

    Remember too of Froslas, one of the most versatiles Ice Types, it can be Anti-Spinner, Spiker, Taunter and Suicidal Killer, with the combination Focus Sash + Destiny Bond, and a massive Speed of 110. I used him with that trait wich sometimes disable the last used move of the foe, I don't remember it's name, anyway. Snow Cloak is a good option too.

    Remember that Hail works better with Stall, but in this Generation you can use Offensive Variations with security, using Cloyster, Mamoswine and a lot of others Sweepers/Tanks...

    And sorry for bumping the thread, but Hail is the funniest weather to play :D
  24. Delko

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    Jonathanrp agreed that I could help him with this article.
    Updates will come soon!
  25. Delko

    Delko "ghost mod"
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    I think we should change the tittle to "Gen 5 Hail".
    That way we can also involve the offensive counterpart, BlizzSpam as well.
    I writing some stuff up at the moment, I'll post an update in the next few days.

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