Gifts of the Gods

At long last I have an update for you all. Blissey and Chansey have been banned.

Woohoo, death to impenetrable stall.

In other news, I have had real life commitments that have prevented me from nurturing this meta at the level it needs to thrive. I don't think it's fair to everyone interested to also be waiting on my availability. This is why I am pleased to announce that sin(pi) will be taking over as leader of Gifts of the Gods. Please wish Sin(Pi) the best, as I'm sure this meta will flourish under their leadership!

The stage is yours.
 

sin(pi)

lucky n bad
Thanks Hot dog pizza, hoping to see you back with us! First things first, a Deo-A stall HO team that I've been using!
Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Transform

Linoone @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Pickup
Happiness: 0
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 40 Def / 44 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Claw
- Frustration

Deoxys-Attack @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Psycho Boost
- Skill Swap

Swellow @ Choice Specs
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Boomburst
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- U-turn

Victini @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 52 HP / 228 Atk / 228 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Final Gambit
- V-create
- Trick
- U-turn

Rampardos @ Lum Berry
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Head Smash
- Superpower
- Rock Polish
So Specs Boomburst is a nuke, who would've thought. I made this team around what are imo two of the best attacking moves ever created, Extreme Speed and Boomburst. Swellow nukes stuff for Linoone to clean up, and the other mons are sort of filler lmao. In order:
Ditto is standard, EVs give HP Ice because it's better than HP Dark and the stat drop is irrelevant. It's slightly better than in standard because 50>48, but more because this team wrecks stall and Ditto helps hugely vs offense.
Linoone is Bellyspeed because 180 base attack Espeed, duh. I used the same EVs as the PU set because you don't change bulk and I wanted to hit as hard as possible. Frustration was run because +6 252+ Atk Linoone Frustration vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 594-699 (91.1 - 107.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock, but you can run Seed Bomb or Gunk Shot or something to beat Rocks/Unawares.
Deo-A is your suicide lead, Skill Swap beats Sableye and everything else is standard. Could run Taunt but it's hard to fit on the moveset and Psycho Boost is useful to kill things like Talonflame (bar the SpDef sets). It being a suicide lead is surprising to some people, but you can catch them off guard.
Swellow is broken pls ban. 252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 280-331 (42.9 - 50.7%) -- 52.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery. I'm struggling to find mons that switch into this thing safely, thanks to Scrappy (Mega Ttar with Giratina's HP is 2HKO'd by HP Fighting after rocks, and Registeel lacks recovery).
Victini is a bit of a gimmick. The EVs allow it to KO fully invested base 100s with final Gambit after they've taken SR damage, while outspeeding +spe base 150s. V-create is another broken move :]
Rampardos was here to act as another stallbreaker and potentially a wincon vs all playstyles, Mold Breaker Head Smash is always fun. This meta fixes Ramp's biggest problem - its low Speed stat, and gives it the ability to destroy teams. Lum aids in setup especially vs Sableye. Superpower was specifically for Blissey but is also amazing coverage. Rock Slide, Stone Edge and Earthquake are other options for moves, as is a Sheer Force set.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-giftsofthegods-25868
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-giftsofthegods-25869

Now, I'd like some community input as to whether there's anything else which might be considered suspect-worthy. I've got my eye on a few things, but I'm just one man. I'm not going to suspect anything for a couple of days, at least. This metagame is very new and I'd like things to settle a little.

Disclaimer: I don't necessarily think these all need to go, but they are at the forefront of my mind. Talonflame is also there but slightly further back for now.
180/180/150 offenses are absurd, and while the defensive stats are poor, Deo itself takes one of them while things like Smeargle, Ditto, and various frailmons can take the other (the HP stat is acceptable - see Mega Diancie, Mega Sableye, etc). Mons like Gengar, Alakazam, Weavile, Breloom are still viable with their own offensive stats, and aren't going to be surviving hits anyway.
nb Deo-N is similar and, if Deo-A is banned, then it will likely be suspected afterwards.
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 438-516 (128.4 - 151.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 456-537 (133.7 - 157.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
It hits nearly as hard as +2 Xerneas, with coverage to hit everything and a blazingly fast base 125 speed tier. If it weren't for the facts that a) Speed tiers are a little faster thanks to Deoxys, Shaymin-Sky, and Mewtwo, for example; and b) priority is quite literally everywhere; I would consider a quickban. As it stands, Swellow is simply very good.
In a word, bellyspeed. I'm not currently convinced this needs to go, as it still struggles to set up and it's beaten by Ekiller Arceus (outspeeds), as well as very fat steels, but it does have the coverage to beat all Unaware mons (no, Bidoof, you're not viable) and Shadow Claw/Thief for Ghosts, though it can't do this all at once.
+6 252+ Atk Linoone Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Aggron (standard): 180-212 (52.3 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
This helps massively in making stall unviable, given that it beats Unaware Clefable unless it gains HP/SpDef AND invests in them:
252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 183-216 (46.5 - 54.9%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Clefable (150 base HP): 255-301 (50.6 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Clefable (150 base HP): 201-237 (45.4 - 53.6%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Clefable (154 base SpDef): 160-190 (40.7 - 48.3%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
It picks and chooses its checks based on the HP you choose, with Fire beating most Steel/Grass/Bugs, Ground beating Heatran, Rock beating Ho-Oh/Volcarona, etc.

Obviously this meta isn't OU, so I'm not going to suspect or ban anything on the basis of it being broken in OU, but it also isn't Ubers. This brings me to my next points, should Gengarite be legal? Also, should Arena Trap be suspected and/or quickbanned? Shadow Tag is staying banned on everything else, and Magnet Pull doesn't trap enough to be uncompetitive imho. The questions is really whether we want Mega Gengar legal.

-STag is uncompetitive and is banned by OU clauses, we don't need to make an exception for MGar.
-Arena Trap is also uncompetitive and has been banned in OMs such as AAA where it is available on better mons. Here, the trappers become better mons so the comparison is valid.
-STag would make stall even harder to build, and biases the metagame towards offense.
-It would also hurt offensive mons which are slower than it, as a large amount of the newly viable mons are in lower tiers and are thus generally frailer.
-We shouldn't have broken checking broken. If Swellow/Linoone/whatever is broken, then they should just be banned, rather than have another broken mon checking them.
-Mega Gengar is mediocre in this meta thanks to the mechanics of receiving Mega Pokemon's stats, so you're gimping yourself in order to gain this.
-Dugtrio is the only viable Arena Trapper, and has multiple problems in standard, including being frail and not hitting very hard. Here, it can only fix one of those, but also suffers from everything potentially getting faster or bulkier, as well as the priority spam.
-Gar is an excellent check to mons like Swellow and Linoone, trapping them and removing them with Destiny bond or simply attacking, as they are very frail
 
Long post
Some opinions:

Deoxys-A: I don't think this is that broken. Or if it is, it's less broken than other things. Compare it to Hoopa-U, for example. Hoopa-U lets you acheive similar offensive stats, but much higher defensive stats in exchange for an average speed stat, which doesn't matter a whole lot IMO cause of the powerful priority in this meta. It seems a lot more versatile due to being able to run a specially bulky mon, letting you run a more balanced sort of team, or you can just slap the 130 special defense on something like Scarf Excadrill and call it a day. I got sort of off topic but the point I'm trying to make is that there's a lot of risk associated with Deoxys-A teams and I think that it isn't particularly broken.

Swellow: Once again, there's a lot of priority here, but other than that Swellow seems really good. I think it's the most broken out of the four pokemon sin(pi) mentioned. Since there's no blobs, that means there's no switch-ins besides AV bouffalant and Mr. Mime of course. This is why we need a Rock/Ghost type with good Special Defense. Not only that but physical Swellow seems decently viable too. Guts boosted Facades off of 180 base attack are no joke, and it also gets Quick Attack to join the priority game, and foil weakened Talonflame. Swellow definitely deserves its spot at the top of the chopping board.

Linoone: Bellyspeed is good, but I actually think Choice Band might be even better. Linoone still has the same unimpressive bulk, so setting up a Belly Drum is pretty tough, although if you do it can end games. Choice Band is a lot more risk-free and lets it revenge kill pretty much any offensive pokemon, and I'm not even exaggerating. It easily OHKOs stuff like Latios, basically forcing the opponent's hand every time. You got Shadow Claw to donk ghosts and Trick if they have Registeel or something.

Serperior: While it's good, I don't know how well it fares against offensive teams, what with all the priority and Talonflame. Even if it stomps stall, the point of the metagame is not to make all playstyles equally effective, or so I've been told.

Other potential suspects:

Talonflame: No shit.

Light Ball: Pikachu just destroys stall teams, it kind of seems to be a trend here. But it's also capable of functioning against offense if you use Extreme Speed, and it actually outdamages itemless Linoone with it. And being an Extreme Speed user of that level means that it simply invalidates plenty of offensive mons with mediocre physical bulk. It has a ton of obscure options, like Volt Tackle, Icicle Crash, Fake Out, Focus Punch, etc. but most of them are illegal with each other. It can even run a special set that is basically impossible to switch into. Here's some calcs so you get an idea of just how strong Pikachu is.

252+ Atk Light Ball Pikachu Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 255-301 (87.6 - 103.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Light Ball Pikachu Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 324-382 (90.2 - 106.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Light Ball Pikachu Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 185-218 (51.2 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Light Ball Pikachu Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-T: 178-210 (55.7 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Light Ball Pikachu Volt Tackle vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 483-568 (122.9 - 144.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Light Ball Pikachu Volt Tackle vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 235-277 (58.4 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This is all with 180 base Attack, but no other changed stats. As you can see it's capable of 2HKOing pretty much everything. That Extreme Speed is particularly scary though, as it can actually 2HKO switch-ins.

252+ SpA Light Ball Pikachu Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Primal Groudon: 325-383 (80.4 - 94.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Light Ball Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 156-185 (44.3 - 52.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Light Ball Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Manectric: 248-292 (88.2 - 103.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Light Ball Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. 232 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 176-207 (49 - 57.6%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Light Ball Pikachu Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 418-492 (99.5 - 117.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Light Ball Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kyurem-W: 205-242 (52.4 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Light Ball Pikachu Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Arceus-Grass: 234-276 (52.7 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Light Ball Pikachu Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Arceus-Electric: 233-275 (52.4 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Light Ball Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Kyurem-W: 148-175 (32.5 - 38.5%) -- 4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (i found a switch-in! until it reveals focus punch....)

Without Chansey, nothing can switch in (not that Chansey is a very safe switch-in anyways, it can be 2HKOd by Thunderbolt if it gets Knocked Off).

But is Pikachu really broken? It still dies to any attack. It's not very fast either. And it has no longevity if it uses a move with recoil. But it's versatile, stupidly powerful, and if it's played right it can be kept away from attacks as it picks off and breaks through things. Definitely needs to be looked at.

Deep Sea Tooth: Clamperl is another Pokemon with very few switch-ins, but it doesn't have priority. Since it relies on Shell Smash to sweep, that instantly makes it way less broken than Pikachu in my mind. But yeah, here's another thing that completely shits on stall teams.

252+ SpA Deep Sea Tooth Clamperl Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Primal Groudon: 244-288 (60.3 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Deep Sea Tooth Clamperl Surf vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre in Heavy Rain: 206-243 (53.6 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Deep Sea Tooth Clamperl Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable (154 base Special Defense): 219-258 (55.5 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Deep Sea Tooth Clamperl Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Kyurem-W: 198-234 (43.6 - 51.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (i found a switch-in again!)

No real switch-ins again as you can see, but Clamperl lacks the versatility of Pikachu so it definitely shouldn't be looked at yet, maybe once the dust clears. It seems pretty worthless against teams that can provide continued offensive pressure, or have lots of priority. Plus it has competition from the much more consistent Manaphy, who I briefly considered mentioning here.

Thick Club works similarly, and I think Marowak might be better than Clamperl overall. Marowak might be worth a thought too, it has a great damage output and can 2HKO stuff like Lando-T with Double Edge.

On Gengarite: A consensus needs to be picked for the rules about this. Shadow Tag is not allowed in OU due to a complex ban, but neither is Lucario holding Lucarionite, and that's allowed in this metagame. If the definition of "Ubers Pokemon" for your God was refined, we might get somewhere. The way it is now, it could be interpreted as:
>any Pokemon tiered in Ubers
>any Pokemon legal in Ubers but not in OU (adds Soul Dew Latis, SD+Pass Scolipede, Shadow Tag Gothitelle)
If the Ubers pokemon are held to Ubers clauses (which makes a lot of sense) this allows Shadow Tag. It also lets you break Baton Pass clause on your God. You could argue that this is the proper way to handle having something like Mega Kangaskhan as your God, since you take the stats of the base form, and Kagngaskhanite being banned in OU on Kangaskhan is a clause rather than a tiering choice (?). But if they were held to OU clauses, which is also reasonable, then it outlaws certain gods and Shadow Tag. OU also doesn't have a Mega Rayquaza clause, so a complex rule would need to be added for that, since it is technically a clause, not a tier above. I think. Wow this is really fucking stupid.

I kind of rambled there but hopefully you get the point. I don't know much about the intricacies of tiering and clauses though, so I might be talking out my ass. Either way it's not in my hands to decide.

On Arena Trap: My first gut instinct is that it isn't broken. Dugtrio probably warrants more testing. If it takes a large Attack stat (or special attack too I guess) from something, that's still not really enough to beat some of the bulkier pokemon in this metagame. Even with 180 base Attack it struggles to 2HKO stuff like Clefable and friends, meaning that it's pretty worthless against stall. Not to mention the common defensive Gods beat it too (Giratina + Arceus burn it or pick it off with priority, Lugia just laughs). Against Hyper Offense teams, it might get one kill before it is picked off by priority, not to mention that all Deoxys teams save for Deo-D have at least two mons faster than it. For example, look at the Deo-A team sin(pi) posted above this. Dugtrio is outsped or outprioritized by 5/6 mons. I get that a lot of the time Dugtrio's role is to beat that one mon it can, but that doesn't really mean it's broken. And it still needs Focus Sash to accomplish anything, meaning that it isn't really all that powerful. All the priority just doesn't help.

And yeah, Trapinch is still pretty bad too. You could give it a lot of speed though if you wanted.

I think i need some sleep now
 
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Because I haven't really played this meta yet, I'm just gonna comment based on theorymon.

Deo-A: I don't think this is that bad. I mean, in this meta, you need to account the usefulness of the uber into account, both by itself and in terms of supporting (or boosting) the team. In this case, as mentioned above, I'd even say that Hoopa-U or even Kyurem-White is a better member for Deoxys-A. Reason: Anything in your team appreciates 50 HP and 20 Def/SpD? You'll need to sacrifice two slot members for that. Second reason? Deoxys-A as a single mon dies to anything. It's best role is as a lead. As a wallbreaker it's inferior to others because of crappy STAB typing and paper defenses. So no, I don't think it looks broken.

Arena trap: No lol. Dugtrio's ass in both stats wise and movepool wise. Helping it by boosting stats won't help it. It's best bet is being a Sash trapper for offensive mons. That's it.

Gengarite: No. Let me ask you a question: Do you mind sacrificing your HP, Atk, Def, OR Special Defense in exchange for a trapper and a decent Special Attack and a standard Speed user? By choosing Mega Gengar to be your god, you are basically debuffing three of your own members. Is it worth it? I'd rather choose a non trapper but have a wallbreaking power than this.

Talonflame: I think... this is the most suspect worthy of the mons you listed tbh. 180 Attack PRIORITY Brave Birds is no joke. I don't want to say this is outright broken, but this looks... centralizing. I think you should observe this sin(pi) because this has the potential to be broken. Maybe there's a lot of powerhouses similar to this, but PRIORITY seperates it from anything else.

Serperior: I don't know about this. It looks good, but the amount of priority and the fraility of this thing makes this look kinda unappealing. Grass is a crap type, both offensively and defensively. And Serperior still have bad movepool. I kinda doubt it's broken but we'll see.

Swellow: I, too, don't know about this. Sure, boomburst is strong, but it's Normal type. And Swellow only has... Heat Wave for Steels. It looks strong but there is a lot of other powerhouses. Remember there's Ninetales and Politoed that WILL outdamage Swellow with Sun boosted Fire Blast and Rain boosted Hydro Pump (They reach like 247 BP in the Sun/Rain, while Boomburst Swellow "only" reaches 210 BP).

Edit: Comparison of power:

252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 438-516 (128.4 - 151.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Ninetales Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Sun: 517-609 (151.6 - 178.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
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Le thoughts

Serp needs to go imo, the only thing keeping it from being banned in regular is terrible sp.a and bad coverage, but when you have the potential of a 150 base special attack Leaf Storm (hell with Deo-A it reaches a mind numbing 180), the latter really doesn't matter because at that point you're doing upwards of 30 to some quad resists, and they're dying next turn because boosting shenanigans and potential HP Fire. TFlame's still a pain, but I'll get to that in a bit.

Linoone is imo a bit less borked than Serp because there's not a lot of Ubers that give worthy attack boosts to Linoone (it's limited to Groudon, Zekky, and Psychic Wallbreaker Squad iirc), but on those Gods it can be brutal af, 150 base attack STAB ESpeed is already stronger than Arc's, and when you add the abilty to get to +6, then we have something. Why use TFlame when you have this, except for nailing faster ghosts? Fortunately it's frail as all unholy hell, especially with some of the attackers going around, but if it sets up on a bulky/weaker 'mon it can break (Clef for example, who then eats Gunk or just ESpeed if it's Magic Guard), it's usually pretty free to wreck house.

Talonflame is in a similar vein to Linoone, except it's only crippling weakness is certain Pokemon like Rotom-W (better hope it's not with a PDon or else that doesn't mean jack shit). It's probably not on the same level as Serp, but it's still a defining 'mon if it stays. Rocks remains a pain in the rear, but if they're not up it, checks some threatening stuff (Serp for example)

Mega Gengar doesn't seem really worthwhile, esp. when compared with other Ubers who have much better stats to give. Trapping's nice and all, but base Geng's stats are honestly too low to properly use for your Uber. You're crippling your team way too much using it tbh.

Duggy seems borked until you realise it either risks getting outsped by things on Mewtwo or other faster 'mons or it plain fails to break anything not sufficiently weakened because of the increased bulk 'mons tend to have thanks to their Gods. It's also frail as all unholy fuck (deo-n's bulkier I'm not even joking) so linoones and talons beat it easy if all else fails.

Deo-A needs a test imo, hyper offense loves this thing oml. Two 'mons become unholy levels of powerful and one becomes extremely fast. Two have to lose defenses but you can run Smeargle and get away with it as a Sporing spikes stacking suicide lead if all else fails and run something else that's frail af anyways.

Chopin Alkaninoff makes a good point on Swellow tbh, not much else to say really
 
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After playing some more matches, I'd like to call for a Shuckle instaban. With Giratina as a God, this thing is pure cancer. I will post replays to support this:
[replay]rom-giftsofthegods-27752[/replay]
[replay]rom-giftsofthegods-27751[/replay]

Even without the boosts, 150/230/230 bulk is just insane. BAN PLZ
 
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After playing some more matches, I'd like to call for a Shuckle instaban. With Giratina as a God, this thing is pure cancer. I will post replays to support this:
[replay]rom-giftsofthegods-27752[/replay]
[replay]rom-giftsofthegods-27751[/replay]

Even without the boosts, 150/255/255 bulk is just insane. BAN PLZ
First off, shuckle doesn't actually have 255 Bulk, it has 230. Secondly, shuckle has a terrible type and no offensive prescience, leaving it as setup for mons like Manaphy.

Something that seems interesting is diancie. With an inherited def/spd stat, it doesn't get stuck with a drop in that stat, so it can actually be used on some gods as a flat improvement despite its already stellar offensives. Ofc you can just buff HP, but what's the fun in that?
 
After playing some more matches, I'd like to call for a Shuckle instaban. With Giratina as a God, this thing is pure cancer. I will post replays to support this:
[replay]rom-giftsofthegods-27752[/replay]
[replay]rom-giftsofthegods-27751[/replay]

Even without the boosts, 150/255/255 bulk is just insane. BAN PLZ
Don't put your replays in HIDE tags it makes them impossible to view.
(at least for me anyway)
 
K I think we need a ladder first before banning/suspecting something. Shuckle has problems of lacking recovery and Status healing moves besides Rest and being more passive than Chansey (it doesn't even have Seismic Toss/Night Shade). All it can do to you is setting up Stealth Rock and Sticky Web (which I think it's best niche) or Toxic + Infestasion stalling while trolling you with Encore. I think it doesn't look that broken even with overwhelming bulk because... it doesn't really accomplish any roles besides being hazard setter or a staller (which has no good recovery). There are reasons it's BL2.

It's bulk can be used as pro ban argument if it makes it's role as a Stealth Rock and Sticky Web setter too good. Kinda like Deoxys-D. But well, we don't know yet.
 
After playing some more matches, I'd like to call for a Shuckle instaban. With Giratina as a God, this thing is pure cancer. I will post replays to support this:
[replay]rom-giftsofthegods-27752[/replay]
[replay]rom-giftsofthegods-27751[/replay]

Even without the boosts, 150/255/255 bulk is just insane. BAN PLZ
Win against a team with a stallbreaker before complaining that something as passive as Shuckle is too bulky.

Also, just because you can embed a showdown battle in a forum post, doesn't mean you should. We're all capable of clicking links.
 
Win against a team with a stallbreaker before complaining that something as passive as Shuckle is too bulky.

Also, just because you can embed a showdown battle in a forum post, doesn't mean you should. We're all capable of clicking links.
K I think we need a ladder first before banning/suspecting something. Shuckle has problems of lacking recovery and Status healing moves besides Rest and being more passive than Chansey (it doesn't even have Seismic Toss/Night Shade). All it can do to you is setting up Stealth Rock and Sticky Web (which I think it's best niche) or Toxic + Infestasion stalling while trolling you with Encore. I think it doesn't look that broken even with overwhelming bulk because... it doesn't really accomplish any roles besides being hazard setter or a staller (which has no good recovery). There are reasons it's BL2.

It's bulk can be used as pro ban argument if it makes it's role as a Stealth Rock and Sticky Web setter too good. Kinda like Deoxys-D. But well, we don't know yet.
Don't put your replays in HIDE tags it makes them impossible to view.
(at least for me anyway)
First off, shuckle doesn't actually have 255 Bulk, it has 230. Secondly, shuckle has a terrible type and no offensive prescience, leaving it as setup for mons like Manaphy.

Something that seems interesting is diancie. With an inherited def/spd stat, it doesn't get stuck with a drop in that stat, so it can actually be used on some gods as a flat improvement despite its already stellar offensives. Ofc you can just buff HP, but what's the fun in that?
Rip can't get one thing right
Thanks for the corrections :p
I'd really like to battle a team with a stall breaker
 
So I haven't seen anyone mention Deoxys-D yet. It's a good defense giver, and while it's other stats are meh-ish, I think it might be possible for it to help some stall teams, and... maybe help some anti-stall teams. I have one replay, and it's against a bot, so I don't know necessarily that this is even a good team yet.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-giftsofthegods-27970
Please give me feedback on my team, here's the import to judge and pick at :P


Deoxys-Defense @ Mental Herb
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- Toxic
- Recover

Rotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Trick
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hydro Pump

Tornadus-Therian @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Mild Nature
- U-turn
- Superpower
- Focus Blast
- Hurricane

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Knock Off
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Protect

Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 220 HP / 188 Def / 4 SpD / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Flare Blitz
- Roost

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Heal Bell
- Moonblast
- Protect
 
So I haven't seen anyone mention Deoxys-D yet.
I think no one mentioned it because Lugia is mostly better. Deoxys-D has somewhat higher defenses, but Lugia has higher stats everywhere else, including a really solid base 106 HP. Giratina is kind of the same things. Deoxys-D does have a pretty good movepool though, but it's kinda shitty compared to most of the other Ubers.
 
anyone else think Shuckle will be good? Without its abysmal hp stat it can reliably set up rocks and sticky webs, on top of having other good moves like encore, toxic and knock off. It also has more niche but borderline viable options like power trick and infestation.
 
In b4 Bojack is banned
The Tooth Fairy (Diancie-Mega) @ Diancite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
- Diamond Storm
- Calm Mind

Trained (Alakazam) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Knock Off
- Return
Bojack (Hoopa-Unbound) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Hyperspace Hole
- Thunder Wave
- Focus Blast
TOO LOUD (Noivern) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Hurricane
- Switcheroo
- Shadow Ball
Dinosaur King (Tyrantrum) @ Leftovers
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Head Smash
- Dragon Claw
- Crunch
Turtle (Carracosta) @ White Herb
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Stealth Rock
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge

My team for now, will probably be editing.
 

sin(pi)

lucky n bad
Sounds like a brilliant meta, is it on ROM ?
Is this playable anywhere?
Yes! Thanks to Spandan , this is playable on ROM and DragonHeaven!
http://rom.psim.us/lobby
-----

Very excited that this is OMotM October! Please feel free to share teams/sets/replays to add to our resources, as it's currently pretty bare! I'm not going to suspect anything just yet, but I'm pleased to announce that neither Shadow Tag (in the Uber slot) nor Arena Trap will be banned, mainly for the reasons Chopin and I mentioned.
 
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Slowbro is pretty good with a sp. def. boost, especially the mega version. It has flaws, such as being taunt bait and being weak to Serperior, but it's a really good win condition with the right support.

That being said, Serperior is a really good pokemon as well with a sp. atk. boost and its already great speed. Serperior tears through walls, can be a win condition, gets momentum extremely fast, and hits SE a lot of bulky pokemons such as Ttar, Slowbro (as stated), Hippowdon, and Rotom-W.
 

LatiasDigs

formerly digitalson
It has zero offensive presence, a poor defensive typing, and is Taunt bait. It won't likely be suspected.
"zero offensive presence" my butt

(getting high speed from the god (i.e. deo-s))
Shuckle @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Power Trick
 
"zero offensive presence" my butt

(getting high speed from the god (i.e. deo-s))
Shuckle @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Power Trick
Power Tricks too much of a gamble to be reliable and wastes a turn, so why are you trying to use that as an excuse to justify it? Plus, since everything's slower than it with Deoxys-S as a god, Pokemon with Mold Breaker and multi-hit moves will be able to destroy it instantly. That, and it has no priority, so it dies to literally anything with a good priority if Sturdy is broken.
 
"zero offensive presence" my butt

(getting high speed from the god (i.e. deo-s))
Shuckle @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Power Trick
252+ Atk Shuckle Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 280-330 (82.1 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 274-324 (80.3 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
Spending a turn to be as strong as CB Ttar, every single time you come in? Not feeling it.
 

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