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Gimmick - 1st World Problem? (Peak 2200+, #12)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Beastly Grant, Aug 15, 2013.

  1. Beastly Grant

    Beastly Grant

    Joined:
    May 6, 2012
    Messages:
    9
    Welcome to my very first RMT ever in this Forum. I have been laddering in PS for a while, but this is the first time I post anything on this Forum. Anyway, people may know me under the name Mighty Emboar. Why? It's simply rock. Anyway, I digress so let's get our focus back to what this topic is about: RMT.

    INTRODUCTION

    As you can see the title, this team highly values one of the most forgettable, underestimated Pokemon that is deep down in NU. I usually take those seemingly useless and use it as its best potential. This time, Weezing is the star I want to focus on.

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]


    Now please stop admiring its beauty, and let's see how I use it to reach such peak. I am quite high on the ladder, gladly, both on PO and PS using this team and I must say the synergy is amazing. My choosing playstyle for this team is Semi-Stall.

    BUILDING PROCESS

    Show Hide
    Firstly, as I start off making a team to feature Weezing, it will be the first to be used in the team.
    [​IMG]
    Secondly, I must determine the playstyle for him. Seeing that he has walling potential, I think I will follow Semi-Stall. Immediately, I choose Sand 'cause I think it would work great for such playstyle (and so that Weezing's Flamethrower is usable). Tyranitar, you are next.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Soooo, I need to find a Spiker, and I mean a suitable one. Skarmory was once my option but it did not suit the team so I choose Forretress so that besides Spike, it can have better momentum for the team, plus I gain myself a Spinner too so it eases the spot later on.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Of course, I need a Spinblocker. As Forretress and Weezing are capable of walling Physical, I need a good Special Wall and Jellicent is a decent choice for me.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    As for the remaining 2 slots, I still think momentum is important and yet a Fast Sweeper is necessary in case something set up and screw the team. Thus, Landorus-T is my 2nd last option.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    The last spot I just need something that can Spam hard after everything is weakened. By the way since Weezing is NU so I will just put another great NU that is widely used in OU, especially Sand: Stoutland. My team is completed as a result.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    TEAM ANALYSIS

    [​IMG]

    Weezing (F) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Sludge Bomb Pain Split
    - Flamethrower
    - Haze

    Just look at it, JUST LOOK AT IT! You cannot deny its cuteness all over the place. Besides, its stat is amazing along with its typing and the awesome Ability to aid him. This guy does what the EVs imply: Defensive Wall. It is so sturdy that it takes on those Physical tyrants with ease and can even neutralize them via Will-O-Wisp and/or Haze. The remaining two moves are filler actually. Sludge Bomb is an overall good move as it's STAB and can cause 30% poison to the enemy, which can be useful. Flamethrower, although weak, deals a great damage to the ubiquitous Ferrothorn and Scizor. I can replace Sludge Bomb with Thunderbolt to deal with Gyarados easier but well, he's not in anyway a threat to the team and Sludge Bomb is a superior choice.

    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Superpower / Ice Beam
    - Crunch
    - Fire Blast
    You are looking at the #1 Sandmaker in OU: Tyranitar. What differentiates Tyranitar from Hippowdon is its wide coverage of move while maintaining its walling capability. Stealth Rock is as always a necessary Hazards, and the rest is its coverage for Switch-in: Fire Blast to Forretress/Ferrothorn, sometimes prediction of Scizor jumping in, Crunch for the Lati@s (I don't use Pursuit as Lati@s and Starmie usually stay, predicting Pursuit anyway) and Superpower for Heatran and predicted Terrakion that jump in. The EVs is straightforward.

    [​IMG]

    Forretress (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Spikes
    - Volt Switch
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Wait... this Forretress didn't run Gyro Ball. Precisely, as Gyro Ball becomes predictable and with the invasion of Landorus-T, it won't be too strong. Moreover, it can be annoying seeing Forretress being set-up fodder for Subs Garchomp, Landorus-T and/or Gliscor. Thus, I run HP Ice instead as it is capable of 2HKO most variants of them. Volt Switch is the key as it helps me keep the momentum faster and force more switch for more Hazards damage, which is the key of how Stall works usually.

    [​IMG]

    Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Recover
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Shadow Ball

    It's a sad thing that this awesome Pokemon is my most hated Pokemon in my run of Pokemon Black 2 back then. This "guy" is the key for my Specially Defensive Wall, with the ability to take hits from various stuffs and prevent Spinning. It's Starmie's worst friends and it is so sturdy that Thunderbolt is like 4HKOs. With a bit of prediction, it can helps taking Focus Blast for Tyranitar and aid him to fight against the opponent, e.g. Gengar. Again, I would prefer Will-O-Wisp as it neutralizes the attack capability of the opponent, which is important and Scald burn can be unreliable way of causing it.

    [​IMG]
    Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spd
    Jolly Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Earthquake
    - U-turn
    - Stone Edge
    - Superpower Hidden Power [Ice]
    Besides being a reliable Revenge Counter, it has a good ability that can help the team in overall: Intimidate. It shuts down the sheer power from Terrakion and Garchomp, and usually help to kill Volcarona, Gyarados and Dragonite on the spot after they have 1 turn of setting up and experience damage from Hazards. Earthquake is a good STAB, but usually I try to avoid unless all Levitate/Flying is down. Else I would simply spam it at late game. Superpower over HP Ice as Heatran on the Balloon can be quite tricky, and a better coverage or at least deal reliable normal damage to some switch-in such as Rotom-W. U-turn to keep the momentum, as always.

    [​IMG]

    Stoutland (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Rush
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Return
    - Crunch Pursuit
    - Superpower
    - Fire Fang

    Wow... With its Ability, the fate of Stoutland changes from being just another wandering Normal-type Pokemon to such a good Pokemon in Sandstorm. Its Speed is capable of outspeeding everything but Scarf Timid Lati@s, but it's fine already as we want more power from this dog. Return is always good, and friendlier than Frustration which always gives me bad impression about the trainer. Crunch is a reliable coverage move for Ghost, while Superpower hits Steel hard overall and Fire Fang hits especially hard on Scizor/Ferrothorn/Forretress/Skarmory. Usually, the need of eradicating all of its counters is important so that it can simply spam its mighty Return at late game.

    CONCLUSION
    It is such a fun team that strangely, it works well under a right use. However, nothing is perfect and the team still got holes here and there. Feel free to rate it, like it, comment about it. Your comment would be helpful for the improvement of the team. :)

    UNDER CONSIDERATION

    [​IMG]
    Hippowdon (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Slack Off
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Whirlwind


    The thing that Hippowdon can bring while Tyranitar cannot: Slack Off and the ability to wall tyrannous attacker such as Terrakion, Dragonite, Lucario... However, the slot is still considered as this mean the pace of the team is much slower. Yet, Hippowdon over Tyranitar should be considered since it has a good synergy as well and a reliable recovery move as well as phazer.

    [​IMG]
    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 236 SpD / 20 Spe
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Giga Drain
    - Recover
    - U-turn

    - Thunder Wave / Heal Bell

    As someone mentions below, the team lacks the reliable way to deal with Rotom-W and Thundurus-T since the former can WoW and cripple the defense or deal large damage to both of my Specially Defensive wall, whereas the latter has access to both strong attack that hit extremely hard to both. The addition of Celebi over Landorus-T means the pace will be slower, yet the benefit it brings is commendable. However, this adds to the weakness to Volcarona and thus makes me think a lot. Yet, Celebi is worth a test as it fits the team well enough.

    IMPORTABLE
    Show Hide

    Tyranitar (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Superpower
    - Crunch
    - Fire Blast

    Forretress (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Spikes
    - Volt Switch
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Landorus-T (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Earthquake
    - U-turn
    - Stone Edge
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Recover
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Shadow Ball

    Weezing (F) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Pain Split
    - Flamethrower
    - Haze

    Stoutland (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Rush
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Return
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower
    - Fire Fang
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2013
  2. scotti

    scotti

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    It seems like a good team but i only have 2 nitpicks. First on Stoutland change the color font it is kind hard to read. Secondly replace Choice Band with Silk Scarf. You still have good power with Return and you can act like a Choice Band Stoutland and we they send out something to counter Stoutland like a Steel Type you hit it with Superpower. Anyway hope i helped.
  3. Beastly Grant

    Beastly Grant

    Joined:
    May 6, 2012
    Messages:
    9
    Thanks for the comment. :) I have changed the font color accordingly. :)

    As for Stoutland, I know the ability to really be able to switch move is important but in reality, Stoutland is not so strong and the Attack boost from Choice Band is very important. For the Steel counter, I usually predict and kill it on the bait as it switches in. Usually Stoutland won't stay so long on the field during mid-game as many priorities kill it, namely Mach Punch and Bullet Punch so I think it will be better as hit-and-run and late game sweeper. :D
    MikeDawg and scotti like this.
  4. S0L1D G0LD

    S0L1D G0LD

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Messages:
    2,704
    Hey there, your team seems excellent to me, so all I can really suggest is maybe trying pain split > sludge bomb or something on weezing so you can keep him in the game longer, but I understand the frustrations of only having one attacking type move not named dragon, so I could see why you might not want to do this.
    Beastly Grant likes this.
  5. Beastly Grant

    Beastly Grant

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    May 6, 2012
    Messages:
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    Yeah, the letdown is that Weezing lack the way to recover itself other than Pain Split and Leftovers. I can change Haze to Pain Split, but again it is very situational and Haze is overall a more stable choice for me.
  6. zzazzdsa

    zzazzdsa

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2010
    Messages:
    56
    Hey, solid team.

    Well, overall, your team is built pretty solidly. However, there are a few big threats that can give you hell if you aren't careful. First is Terrakion. Pretty much any set with substitute can avoid a will-o-wisp from weezing and set up on it, while also wearing down landorus-t switchins with stone edge. Since you lack recovery on it, lando is going to get worn down pretty soon. Choice Banders are also a threat because it can come in on half the team and smash through pretty much everything with stone edge.

    Another big problem is Volcarona. If it's running a fast set with giga drain, the only thing that can beat it is stoutland, and then not if its gotten a second boost. You can probably get SR up so it's not as big a threat as it could be, but it can 6-0 you if you aren't careful.

    Finally, Rotom-w is a massive threat, destroying everything with will-o-wisp, volt switch, and hydro pump. There is pretty much nothing you can do to beat it.


    So, what do I reccomend?


    First, I suggest changing Tyranitar into a Hippowdon. While this might seem redundant with Weezing, Tyranitar pretty much only sets up sand and traps the latis for you, meaning stoutland does its job already. I suggest using a physical defensive set to be able to take on Terrakion.

    Second, I think you should change landorus-t into a Celebi. Celebi gives you a solid special defensive wall and a rotom-w counter, as well as being able to scout with u-turn.

    Finally, I think you should replace Jellicent with a Rest Talk Gyarados. Gyarados provides you with an intimidator now that landorus-t is gone, while also giving you a very solid phazer and volcarona counter. It also counters Keldeo, meaning that thing isn't a threat you have to worry about.

    That's my rate, good luck


    tl;dr
    Tyranitar -> PhysDef Hippowdon
    Landorus-T -> Sdef Celebi
    Jellicent -> MixDef RestTalk Gyarados


    also use pain split over haze or sludge bomb on weezing, although with a secondary and tertiary physical wall this is optional. Haze is cool for bpass i guess too


    also also consider using some special defense evs on forretress so scald from toed doesn't do like half


    also also also use pursuit on stoutland, so you can trap tios
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2013
    Beastly Grant likes this.
  7. Godsend

    Godsend

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2009
    Messages:
    369
    I just have to ask, how often is weezing a clutch member of the team?
    bobismoi and Beastly Grant like this.
  8. Beastly Grant

    Beastly Grant

    Joined:
    May 6, 2012
    Messages:
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    @zzazzdsa
    Thanks for the rate zzazzdsa aka 4real (I do know you from PO Server :D ), true that Rotom-W's Will-O-Wisp is troublesome for the team so I usually resort having Tyranitar being the status absorber and just weaken it. Rotom-W usually jumps in front of Jellicent, though, and I can weaken it by Shadow Ball and just throw Tyranitar up. Usually Tyranitar acts more like a body bag to the team. Moreover, its Fire Blast usually helps me wrecking opponent's Ferrothorn and Skarmory along with Weezing, though the latter is weaker in power. I will try your suggestion, though the loss of a spinblocker can be painful. Your suggestion is really useful as I will need it to better the team and most are actually what I have trouble with, so thanks a lot!

    @Godsend
    Weezing may not seem to stand out but it is in fact a vital wall for the ubiquitous Fire Blast Garchomp and Breloom. The former can just render Forretress useless while the latter can wreck the team with ease if only one Physical Wall is used. Not only so, while Forretress can wall Scizor and Ferrothorn, it fails to actually hit them so Weezing acts as my second Physical Wall in essential case. Moreover, its Will-O-Wisp can be helpful in taking hit from those Spammer, burn it, render it useless offensively. (My team relies a lot on WoW, as you can see)
  9. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    May 26, 2013
    Messages:
    1,362
    Hey.
    The team looks pretty great, but forretress is so easily spinblocked it's not even funny. Stuff like skarmory can just spam hazards.
    My suggestion? Run taunt over shadow ball on jellicent to prevent the hazards in the first place. Also I'd suggest pursuit instead of superpower on ttar as, even though you have said the latis and starmie usually stay in, you're better off having the choice just in case they switch out and heatran and terrakion are dealt with by jelly and lando t respectively.
    That's all I got for now, hope I helped.
    Also, I really love the theme of using a very rare pokemon in the metagame and putting it to good use.
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2013
    Beastly Grant likes this.
  10. HuyHuynh

    HuyHuynh

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    Aug 18, 2013
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    Your team is good, solid and unpredictable. But I think Latios is very dangerous for your team. Because Tyranitar does not have pursuit, so Latios can easily switch out anytime. Draco Meteor is too strong, the opposite can predict surf on Tyrant and he cannot tank for many times. Therefore, I think Tyrant should use pursuit, it will make team more coverage.
    Beastly Grant and Kingler12345 like this.
  11. Beastly Grant

    Beastly Grant

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    Thanks for the rating. :) Usually, the team based on pure prediction: If I see a spinblocker, I usually refrain from spinning and either setting up hazards or Volt Switch to a possible counter. Usually, I don't have much problem with Skarmory, and even if Taunt is used on Jellicent, I find it of little use since Skarmory or Forretress do not risk taking Scald and got burned. Moreover, I still need a way to actually kill off the opponent's spinner asap, namely Starmie, and/or usual counter such as Lati@s along with some other that deals normal damage such as Rotom-W. I usually don't mind hazards from opponent though as their aim is usually spinblocking so my role is much simpler: creating hazards on their side and kill off the spinblocker fast. (Shadow Ball from Gengar is around 2HKO - 3HKO depending on the set and Shadow Ball allows me to deal damage onto opponent's Jellicent as well)

    For Tyranitar, I would want to use Pursuit but then again, these days players usually expect Pursuit too much they just stay in. Even if they switch out, I already have a solid Jellicent for Special Wall and with a bit of prediction, it won't be of much harm to my team at all.

    Same as above, and thanks for the rating :D
  12. Beastly Grant

    Beastly Grant

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    May 6, 2012
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    UPDATE:
    *added "Under Consideration" to identify the possible modification to the team*
    *added alternative moves for consideration*
  13. causeNeffect

    causeNeffect

    Joined:
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    Oh Boy, its a Weezing. I award you 50 cool points for using Weezing in OU. But why no PainSplit bro? I thought that was Weezing's bread and butter. I understand that Weezing is your primary SD Scizor counter, thus the reason for running flamethrower, but think about it. With your current set, you cant really harm setup Terrakion and Garchomp even with Haze as they resist both Flamethrower and SlugeBomb. When I tested Weezing a while ago I ran WoW, painsplit, hp-ice, and Psybeam. I also see that traditional set upToxicroak can be a problem for this team once your Landorus wears down. Which bring me to my next suggestion. Drop Scald and Jelly for Taunt. It would allow you to pp Stall Croak much easier and also would terrorize opposing Stall Teams.
    bobismoi and Beastly Grant like this.
  14. Beastly Grant

    Beastly Grant

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    May 6, 2012
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    UPDATE:
    *Replace Sludge Bomb with Pain Split to allow Weezing to sustain longer*
    *Replace Crunch with Pursuit on Stoutland after considering its superiority for trapping Gengar/Latios*
    *Replace Superpower with Hidden Power [Ice] on Landorus-Therian (along with Nature) due to better coverage*
    *Update Importable*
  15. CTC

    CTC The Lord Shepherd shall guideth ye cattle
    is Smogon Frontier's Stadium Baronis a Past WCoP Winner

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    Got the request, solid team man. Only problems i see are rotom wash and sub tox tenta. Because you have no status absorber, ur only water resist jelly is easily worn down by willow/toxic. The entire team doesn't wanna switch into rotom, so that is a big concern. maybe consider cele/amoong > weezing cuz they serve the same purpose. Cool concept with weezing tho.
    Beastly Grant likes this.
  16. zeo sokurame

    zeo sokurame

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    its a pretty good team i only have two suggestions one try this triantar its still same nature and same moves 216 def 40 SPD/252 HP
    bobismoi likes this.
  17. Beastly Grant

    Beastly Grant

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    What is the purpose of that EVs spread? o_O

    Thanks a lot CTC for the rate. True, Rotom-W is always my big problem and working around it isn't easy either. The replaceme of Weezing to Celebi/Amoonguss helps to deal with Rotom-W easier but then, Garchomp and Mamoswine shall be the problem at some occasion along with SD Scizor. However, it worths a try and I'm currently testing with Amoonguss (even though the star of the team is no more... :()

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