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Giratina-O (ResTalk Booster)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Furai, Apr 21, 2012.

  1. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
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    Code:
    [B][U]QC checks:[/U][/B] Jibaku, trickroom, shrang [B][3/3][/B]
    [B][U]GP checks:[/U][/B] Engineer Pikachu, November Blue [B][2/2][/B]
    [SET]
    name: Sleeping Beauty (Mono-Attacker)
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Calm Mind
    move 4: Dragon Pulse
    item: Griseous Orb
    nature: Modest
    evs: 104 HP / 252 Def / 148 SpA / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With Rest and Sleep Talk, Giratina-O is bothered by neither Tentacruel's Scald burns Toxic from foes such as Blissey, Chansey, and Forretress; unlike the Substitute + Calm Mind set, this set can switch in more comfortably. Due to the huge boost in lifespan that Rest and Sleep Talk provide, this set makes an extremely efficient spinblocker, and because of Levitate, it outclasses Giratina, which is worn down by Spikes. This set is also extremely surprising; most people will think that it is the SubCM set and send in their defensive non-Ghost Arceus or Lugia, both of which cannot do anything but phaze. Power is also another huge advantage over Giratina. For example, at +1 Special Attack, Giratina-O will always 2HKO 252 HP / 200 SpD Dialga after Stealth Rock damage (while Dialga's Draco Meteor never OHKOes). Moreover, Giratina-O is not shut down by Trick, which is simply nullified; Giratina, on the other hand, is completely useless once Trick is used on it. This set is also capable of defeating mono-attacker Kyogre, winning the Calm Mind war due to its typing. This is something Calm Mind Arceus cannot accomplish.</p>

    <p>Rest and Sleep Talk are the crux of this set, providing recovery and absorbing status, while Calm Mind transforms Giratina-O into a great attacker. Calm Mind also boosts its Special Defense, which rounds out it bulk and makes it quite hard to take down with both physical and special attacks. Dragon Pulse is a great STAB move to have, resisted only by Steel-types and hitting the vast amount of Dragon-type Pokemon in Ubers for super effective damage; it also gets a boost from Griseous Orb.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>104 HP and 252 Defense EVs grant Giratina-O great physical bulk; in fact, it is bulkier than max HP Arceus. Moreover, these EVs ensure that Choice Scarf Zekrom's Outrage will never OHKO Giratina-O, even after Stealth Rock damage (tops at 87.36%). 148 EVs invested in Special Attack, in conjunction with a Modest nature, allow Giratina-O to 2HKO 252 HP / 200 SpD Dialga with a +1 Dragon Pulse after Stealth Rock damage. 4 Speed EVs are filler, but allow Giratina-O to outpace neutral base 90 Speed Pokemon, such as Dialga, Groudon, and Kyogre.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock is needed in order to ensure some OHKOs and 2HKOs, such as the aforementioned 2HKO on defensive Dialga. Groudon and Dialga are prime candidates for that role. The former is especially good, as it can take on Rayquaza, Garchomp, and Salamence, all of which threaten this set with their physical Dragon-type STAB moves. Ho-Oh is also a good partner, as it can defeat the various variations of Calm Mind Arceus that can defeat this set, such as Ghost Arceus. Ho-Oh also beats the Steel-types that use this set as setup fodder for entry hazards. Therefore, a Rapid Spin user of your own is recommended, such as Forretress or Tentacruel. These two Pokemon can also lay down more hazards—Spikes and Toxic Spikes, respectively. Heal Bell or Aromatherapy support is also highly recommended in case you need to wake Giratina-O up, as switching it out will reset its sleep counter. This makes it harder for it to do its job, as it cannot heal while it is asleep. Blissey and Chansey are remarkable partners that can fill this position, as they can also defeat Calm Mind Arceus.</p>

    <p>This set has a harder time against Steel-types; this variant, unlike mixed Giratina-O, lacks both Thunder for Skarmory and Hidden Power Fire for Forretress and Ferrothorn. Giratina-O will eventually beat them, but they will be able to set up entry hazards in the meantime. Ferrothorn is the biggest annoyance, because with Leech Seed, Gyro Ball 3HKOes with ease, though Ferrothorn must be wary of Gyro Ball's low PP; the rare Curse variants will also win most of the time. Both Scizor and Metagross strike extremely hard with Pursuit, Bullet Punch, or Meteor Mash, leaving Giratina-O no chance to Rest up. Any Calm Mind Arceus, bar of Grass and Ground variants, sets up easily on this set due to its high special bulk, and beats it with STAB Judgment and Recover. Calm Mind Lugia is also in the same boat, packing a super effective Ice Beam and Whirlwind to phaze Giratina-O away, resetting its sleep counter. Tyranitar is bulky enough in sand to take a few Dragon Pulses, and can strike back with Payback, Crunch, or trap with Pursuit.</p>

    <p>Rayquaza, Salamence, Choice Band Zekrom, and Choice Band Garchomp can still OHKO Giratina-O (Salamence has only an 81.25% chance to OHKO though), but they cannot switch in safely due to Dragon Pulse. Ho-Oh's huge base Special Defense allows it to tank a few Dragon Pulses (+1 Dragon Pulse 3HKOes), Roost off the damage, and 3HKO back with Brave Bird, but it needs to be wary of recoil and Stealth Rock damage. Jirachi's Iron Head does only 14.8% - 17.6%, whereas +1 Dragon Pulse does 23% - 27.5%, so it needs massive amounts of hax to beat Giratina-O. (The Toxic stuff is Checks and Counters material IMO) Chansey only has a 21.48% chance to be 2HKOed by a +6 Dragon Pulse, but cannot do anything in return to Giratina-O. Phazing can be problematic for this set, as the forced switch will reset Giratina-O's sleep counter.</p>
  2. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    QC Approved 1/3

    Mention Heal Bell/Aromatherapy support imo, especially with the sleep nerf - a Giratina-O that can constantly switch in and heal is pretty scary. This set does p. well against certain stall teams.

    Man don't speed creep :(. The only reason mixed tina-o runs 8 Speed is to note the importance of outrunning no-Speed base 90s due to its offensive nature. You can use 4 Speed here for this set since Giratina-O has a fair number of weaknesses in that speed tier, which hinder its setup.

    Does it really?
  3. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
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    Mentioned Heal Bell, thanks.

    The Speed EVs are actually needed, you gotta outspeed Heatran before it Taunts you, not allowing you to set up Calm Minds or Recover your health back! If you only tie, there is a good chance Lava Plume will Burn you, or Heatran can just Toxic, and then Taunt you, wearing you down so fast it's ridiculous.

    And silly me, I calculated Draco Meteor...........
  4. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    My point was that we shouldnt be going into arbitrary speed numbers because it's going to lead people to compete with each other in terms of Speed and then it's just not fun anymore when the standard defensive Groudon speed is 254 (yes I have ran this much before lol) or something ridiculous, simply because the analyses are recommending to one up Pokemon that are designed to one up another. Idk how else to explain it :(.

    Case and point:
    - This analysis places Giratina-O at 218 Speed to outrun Heatran
    - Heatran recognizes Giratina-O as a threat - analysis updates accordingly and now it has 219 speed
    - Giratina-O doesn't want to lose and the analysis bumps the Speed up to 220
    - Heatran's analysis speed creeps to 221.
    ...and so forth until Heatran loses at 278 Speed, at which point the defensive purpose of both sets is destroyed.

    One-upping no Speed base 90s is allowed as to show significance. Going further beyond that causes arbitrary Speeds in analyses.
  5. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
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    Although I really think these extra 4 EVs are needed, implemented, Jibaku
  6. trickroom

    trickroom
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    QC APPROVED 2/3

    I gave the skeleton to Furai ;) so I don't have much to post here at the moment.

    Just saying Chesto Rest Kyogre can sometimes beat Giratina-O if Kyogre is using a Modest nature. This Giratina-O comfortably beats Mono-attacking Kyogre though.

    Assuming this Giratina-O and Modest ChestoRestKyogre with 0 SpA EVs
    Dragon Pulse does 31.7% - 37.4% to Kyogre
    Ice Beam does 43.7% - 51.8% to Giratina-O

    The funny thing is if Kyogre uses a Bold nature instead, Ice Beam will no longer 2HKO Giratina-O if both are at the same Calm Mind level.

    Calm Mind Lugia with Ice Beam and Whirlwind will beat this set. If Lugia carries Psyshock then Giratina-O will lose as well. Psychic Arceus can do the same but does not enjoy +1 Dragon Pulses on the switch in.

    Jirachi needs a lot of luck to flinch this Giratina-O to death. Usually, Jirachi needs both Toxic and Iron Head to stand a better chance of winning, Iron Head does 14.8% - 17.6%. +1 Dragon Pulse does only 23% - 27.5% to Jirachi so it has quite some time to hax Giratina-O to death.
  7. shrang

    shrang I AM CHAMPION CHRISTMAS!!
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    Yeah, don't Speed creep. Running extra Speed EVs is supposed to be a decision made by the user and not supposed to be on the analysis. Personally, I don't even think the 4 Spe should even be there, but whatever, it's legit, I guess. If you want more information, read this thread.

    Mention that Ho-oh can be problematic, since while you get to 3HKO it with +1 Dragon Pulse, you're getting 3HKOed in return with Brave Bird, and Ho-oh can easily Recover off damage whenever it sees fit. Also, mention Tyranitar as a counter to this set, since you can't hurt it much at all, while it can just laugh and Pursuit you (or Crunch you, if you stay in), not to mention Sandstorm is just a pain in the ass to Giratina-O in general.

    By the way, Ferrothorn can actually beat you one-on-one or at least fight you to a stalemate if it carries Gyro Ball and Leech Seed. Gyro Ball is 148 Base Power against the current Giratina-O, which means that with Leech Seed, you're getting 3HKOed with Leech Seed and Gyro Ball (Gyro Ball does 25.70% - 30.41%, while Leech Seed saps another 12%, which means with some average to high damage rolls, you ARE getting 3HKOed). Although rare, Ferrothorns carrying Curse and Leech Seed also completely demolish you, but no one runs Curse Ferrothorn anyway.

    You should also mention a major draw of this set over Giratina is its immunity to Trick, as well as being a lot more powerful.

    Can we call this set Sleeping Beauty like we did last gen o_0

    Otherwise, QC APPROVED 3/3
  8. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
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    All implemented. Will write this asap.
  9. shrang

    shrang I AM CHAMPION CHRISTMAS!!
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    Oh yeah, a few more things the counter this set: Specially Defensive SD Scizor with Roost and Metagross. Since you're only running mono-Dragon, Scizor can just SD in your face, Roost off the damage and take you down with boosted Bullet Punches, while Metagross can just Meteor Mash for free.
  10. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
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    I added Metagross, but not Scizor. Choice Band Pursuit does 43.25% maximum which I will mention, but Specially Defensive only has a possible 5HKO.
  11. shrang

    shrang I AM CHAMPION CHRISTMAS!!
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    If you read my post, I said Specially Defensive SD Scizor. It's not going to use Pursuit, but instead SD in your face and Bullet Punch you to death.
  12. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
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    oh oops these run Swords Dance.......
  13. Engineer Pikachu

    Engineer Pikachu Good morning, you bastards!
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    KUAHAHA
    c/p (open)
    [SET]
    name: Sleeping Booster (ResTalk + Calm Mind)
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Calm Mind
    move 4: Dragon Pulse
    item: Griseous Orb
    nature: Modest
    evs: 104 HP / 252 Def / 148 SpA / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With Rest and Sleep Talk, Giratina-O bothered by neither Tentacruel's Scald burns nor Blissey and Chansey's Toxic, and Forretress can no longer wear it down with Toxic; unlike the Substitute + Calm Mind set, this set can switch in more comfortably. Due to the huge boost in lifespan that Rest and Sleep Talk provide, this set makes an extremely efficient spinblocker, and because of Levitate, it outclasses Giratina, which is worn down by Spikes. This set is also extremely surprising; most people think it is the SubCM set and send in their Defensive non-Ghost Arceus or Lugia, both of which cannot do anything but phaze. Power is also another huge advantage over Giratina. For example, at +1 SpA, Giratina-O will always 2HKO 252 HP / 200 SpD Dialga after Stealth Rock (while their Draco Meteor never OHKOes). Moreover, Giratina-O is not shut down by Trick, which is simply nullified; Giratina, on the other hand, is completely useless once Trick is used on it. This set is also capable of defeating Mono-Attacker Kyogre, winning the Calm Mind war due to its typing. This is something Calm Mind Arceus cannot accomplish.</p>

    <p>Rest and Sleep Talk are the crux of this set, providing recovery and status immunity, while Calm Mind transforms Giratina-O into a great attacker. Calm Mind also boosts its Special Defense, making it very bulky with its already high physical bulk. Dragon Pulse is a great STAB to have, resisted only by Steel-types and hitting the vast amount of Dragon-type in Ubers for super effective damage; it also gets a boost from Griseous Orb.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>104 HP and 252 Defense EVs grant Giratina-O great physical bulk; in fact, it is bulkier than max HP Arceus. Moreover, these EVs ensure Choice Scarf Zekrom's Outrage will never OHKO it, even after Stealth Rock damage (tops at 87.36%). 148 EVs invested in Special Attack, in conjunction with Modest nature, allow Giratina-O to 2HKO 252 HP / 200 SpD Dialga with a +1 Dragon Pulse after Stealth Rock. 4 Speed EVs are a filler, allowing Giratina-O to outspace neutral base 90s, such as Dialga, Groudon, and Kyogre.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock is needed in order to ensure some OHKOs and 2HKOs, such as the aforementioned one on Defensive Dialga. Groudon and Dialga are prime examples for that role. The former is especially good, as it can take on Rayquaza, Garchomp, and Salamence, all of which threaten this set with their physical Dragon-type STAB. Ho-Oh also makes a good partner, as it can defeat the various variations of Calm Mind Arceus that can defeat this set, such as Ghost Arceus. Ho-Oh also beats the Steel-types that use this set as setup fodder for entry hazards. Therefore, a Rapid Spin user of your own is recommended, such as Forretress and Tentacruel. These two Pokemon can also lay down more hazards—Spikes and Toxic Spikes, respectively. Heal Bell or Aromatherapy support is also highly recommended due to the Gen V sleep mechanics. Blissey and Chansey are remarkable partners that can fill this job, as they also defeat Calm Mind Arceus.</p>

    <p>This set has a harder time against Steel-types; this variant, unlike Mixed Giratina-O, lacks both Thunder for Skarmory and Hidden Power Fire for Forretress and Ferrothorn. Giratina-O will eventually beat them, but they can use it as setup fodder for entry hazards. Ferrothorn is the biggest annoyance, because with Leech Seed Gyro Ball 3HKOes with ease, though it must be wary of Gyro Ball's low PP; the rare Curse variants will also win most of the time. Both Scizor and Metagross strike extremely hard with Pursuit, Bullet Punch, or Meteor Mash, leaving Giratina-O no chance. Any Calm Mind Arceus, bar the likes of Grass Arceus and Ground Arceus, sets up easily on this set due to its high special bulk, and beats it by using their STAB Judgment and Recover. Calm Mind Lugia also falls in the same boat, packing Whirlwind to phaze Giratina-O away, resetting its sleep counter, and a super effective Ice Beam. Tyranitar is bulky enough in sandstorm to take a few Dragon Pulses, and can strike back with Payback, Crunch, or trap with Pursuit.</p>

    <p>Rayquaza, Salamence, and Choice Band Zekrom and Garchomp can still OHKO (Salamence has only an 81.25% chance to OHKO though), but they cannot switch in safely due to Dragon Pulse. Ho-Oh's huge base Special Defense allows it to tank a few Dragon Pulses (+1 Dragon Pulse 3HKOes), Roost off the damage, and 3HKO back with Brave Bird, but needs to be wary of recoil and Stealth Rock. Jirachi's Iron Head does only 14.8% - 17.6%, whereas +1 Dragon Pulse does 23% - 27.5%, so it needs massive amount of hax to win as well as Toxic to wear Giratina-O off faster. Chansey only has a 21.48% chance to be 2HKOed by a +6 Dragon Pulse, but cannot do anything in return to Giratina-O. Phazing can be problematic for this set, due to BW's sleep mechanics.</p>

    [​IMG]
    GP [1/2]

    I feel I missed some stuff, but whatever. Good job and contact me if you have any issues with some of the changes!
  14. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
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    Implemented, bring on check #2!
  15. Danilo

    Danilo
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    holder

  16. November Blue

    November Blue NO YOUTUBE, I DO NOT WANT TO WATCH VIDEOS AT MAX VOLUME!!
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    Edits on top of Sir's check:

    edits (open)

    [SET]
    name: Sleeping Booster (ResTalk RestTalk + Calm Mind)
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Calm Mind
    move 4: Dragon Pulse
    item: Griseous Orb
    nature: Modest
    evs: 104 HP / 252 Def / 148 SpA / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With Rest and Sleep Talk, Giratina-O is bothered by neither Tentacruel's Scald burns nor Blissey and Chansey's Toxic,(Remove Comma) from foes such as Blissey(Comma) Chansey(Comma) and Forretress can no longer wear it down with Toxic; unlike the Substitute + Calm Mind set, this set can switch in more comfortably. Due to the huge boost in lifespan that Rest and Sleep Talk provide, this set makes an extremely efficient spinblocker, and because of Levitate, it outclasses Giratina, which is worn down by Spikes. This set is also extremely surprising; most people will think that it is the SubCM set and send in their Defensive defensive non-Ghost Arceus or Lugia, both of which cannot do anything but phaze. Power is also another huge advantage over Giratina. For example, at +1 SpA Special Attack, Giratina-O will always 2HKO 252 HP / 200 SpD Dialga after Stealth Rock damage (while their Dialga's Draco Meteor never OHKOes). Moreover, Giratina-O is not shut down by Trick, which is simply nullified; Giratina, on the other hand, is completely useless once Trick is used on it. This set is also capable of defeating Mono-Attacker mono-attacker Kyogre, winning the Calm Mind war due to its typing. This is something Calm Mind Arceus cannot accomplish.</p>

    <p>Rest and Sleep Talk are the crux of this set, providing recovery and absorbing status immunity, while Calm Mind transforms Giratina-O into a great attacker. Calm Mind also boosts its Special Defense, making it very bulky with its already high physical bulk which rounds out it bulk and makes it quite hard to take down with both physical and special attacks. Dragon Pulse is a great STAB move to have, resisted only by Steel-types and hitting the vast amount of Dragon-type Pokemon in Ubers for super effective damage; it also gets a boost from Griseous Orb.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>104 HP and 252 Defense EVs grant Giratina-O great physical bulk; in fact, it is bulkier than max HP Arceus. Moreover, these EVs ensure that Choice Scarf Zekrom's Outrage will never OHKO it Giratina-O, even after Stealth Rock damage (tops at 87.36%). 148 EVs invested in Special Attack, in conjunction with a Modest nature, allow Giratina-O to 2HKO 252 HP / 200 SpD Dialga with a +1 Dragon Pulse after Stealth Rock damage. 4 Speed EVs are a filler, allowing but allow Giratina-O to outspace outpace neutral base 90s Speed Pokemon, such as Dialga, Groudon, and Kyogre.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock is needed in order to ensure some OHKOs and 2HKOs, such as the aforementioned one 2HKO on Defensive defensive Dialga. Groudon and Dialga are prime examples candidates for that role. The former is especially good, as it can take on Rayquaza, Garchomp, and Salamence, all of which threaten this set with their physical Dragon-type STAB moves. Ho-Oh is also makes a good partner, as it can defeat the various variations of Calm Mind Arceus that can defeat this set, such as Ghost Arceus. Ho-Oh also beats the Steel-types that use this set as setup fodder for entry hazards. Therefore, a Rapid Spin user of your own is recommended, such as Forretress and or Tentacruel. These two Pokemon can also lay down more hazards—Spikes and Toxic Spikes, respectively. Heal Bell or Aromatherapy support is also highly recommended due to the Gen V BW sleep mechanics. Blissey and Chansey are remarkable partners that can fill this job position, as they can also defeat Calm Mind Arceus.</p>

    <p>This set has a harder time against Steel-types; this variant, unlike Mixed mixed Giratina-O, lacks both Thunder for Skarmory and Hidden Power Fire for Forretress and Ferrothorn. Giratina-O will eventually beat them, but they can use it as setup fodder for will be able to set up entry hazards in the meantime. Ferrothorn is the biggest annoyance, because with Leech Seed,(add comma) Gyro Ball 3HKOes with ease, though it Ferrothorn must be wary of Gyro Ball's low PP; the rare Curse variants will also win most of the time. Both Scizor and Metagross strike extremely hard with Pursuit, Bullet Punch, or Meteor Mash, leaving Giratina-O no chance to Rest up. Any Calm Mind Arceus, bar the likes of Grass Arceus and Ground Arceus variants, sets up easily on this set due to its high special bulk, and beats it by using their with STAB Judgment and Recover. Calm Mind Lugia is also falls in the same boat, packing a super effective Ice Beam and Whirlwind to phaze Giratina-O away, resetting its sleep counter,(Remove Comma) and a super effective Ice Beam. Tyranitar is bulky enough in sandstorm to take a few Dragon Pulses, and can strike back with Payback, Crunch, or trap with Pursuit.</p>

    <p>Rayquaza, Salamence, and Choice Band Zekrom,(add comma) and Garchomp,(add comma) (Don't add a comma here) can still OHKO Giratina-O (Salamence has only an 81.25% chance to OHKO though), but they cannot switch in safely due to Dragon Pulse. Ho-Oh's huge base Special Defense allows it to tank a few Dragon Pulses (+1 Dragon Pulse 3HKOes), Roost off the damage, and 3HKO back with Brave Bird, but it needs to be wary of recoil and Stealth Rock damage. Jirachi's Iron Head does only 14.8% - 17.6%, whereas +1 Dragon Pulse does 23% - 27.5%, so it needs massive amount amounts of hax to beat win as well as Toxic to wear Giratina-O off faster. (The Toxic stuff is Checks and Counters material IMO) Chansey only has a 21.48% chance to be 2HKOed by a +6 Dragon Pulse, but cannot do anything in return to Giratina-O. Phazing can be problematic for this set,(Remove Comma) due to BW's sleep mechanics.</p>


    [​IMG]

    GP Approved 2/2
  17. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
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    Okay I changed the name back to Sleeping Beauty since it was used back in DPP under this name, and I based Sleeping 'Booster' under it so why not just use the original :)


    THIS IS NOW DONEEEEEE <333333 noblue
  18. Fatecrashers

    Fatecrashers acta est fabula
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