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Ubers Giratina

Discussion in 'Preliminary Pokedex' started by Manaphy, Jan 21, 2014.

  1. Manaphy

    Manaphy

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Messages:
    695
    look at that shit eating grin
    [​IMG]
    http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/giratina
    Overview
    ########

    While many changes have occured with the new generation, Giratina can still prove why its title of "The Great Wall" remains intact. Having impressive 150 / 120 / 120 defensive stats, Giratina can deal with some of the hardest Pokemon to check in the game, such as Swords Dance Arceus, Kangaskhan, Blaziken, and Calm Mind Electric Arceus. On the other hand, the buff to Defog caused Giratina to lose its important niche in spinblocking, and the new Fairy-types just add another weakness on top of its Dragon-, Ice-, Ghost-, and Dark-type ones. However, Giratina's Will-O-Wisp has gained an important accuracy boost, its Rest no longer resets upon switching out, and its Ghost typing means that it cannot be trapped by the omnipresent Gengar, unlike many other walls. Ultimately, use Giratina for what it's good at, which is checking threats, and it will pay back handsomely.

    The Great Wall
    ########
    name: The Great Wall
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Will-O-Wisp
    move 4: Dragon Tail / Roar
    ability: Pressure
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
    nature: Impish

    Moves
    ========

    The moves listed here are Giratina's only options for its role of walling things. Rest and Sleep Talk provide reliable recovery and allow Giratina to shake off status. Giratina's ability to absorb status like it's nothing is important in a status-heavy metagame. Will-O-Wisp is an important source of damage for Giratina and allows it to reliably check physical attackers. Dragon Tail and Roar are the phazing options Giratina can use to check certain setup sweepers; Dragon Tail is preferred as its damage output is important and it bypasses Taunt, but Roar is a viable option if you don't like Dragon Tail's accuracy or are worried about Substitute users. Running both Dragon Tail and Roar is an option, however, entry hazards are around much less to take advantage of this, and Will-O-Wisp's accuracy isn't as much of a problem now.

    Set Details
    ========

    248 HP EVs are used to minimize damage from Stealth Rock. Pressure is a great ability on a Pokemon like Giratina, as it is useful for stalling low PP moves such as Sacred Fire. Run a Bold nature if you prefer Roar over Dragon Tail, as Giratina will take less damage from Foul Play.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Giratina has one goal: wall things and then get the hell out. It can easily be taken advantage of by many Pokemon, especially ones with Taunt or Substitute, so it's best to use Giratina when you need him to check something and then switch out.

    There are certain times when it is better to phaze out an opponent rather than burn it. An especially notable example is when against Lum Berry Swords Dance Arceus, as Arceus will occasionally be able to kill a weakened Giratina before getting burned. Giratina is also bulky enough to be able to take many special attacks, even without investment. However, you should use another set if you want Giratina to be able to take on things such as Choice Specs Kyogre.

    Team Options
    ========

    Giratina is the one supporting its teammates here, so its team options are quite many. In general, you should be using this on teams that need a physical wall and status absorber. Pokemon that can switch into many of Giratina's weaknesses are appreciated. Scizor is a notable option that can deal with Gengar and the Fairy-types that trouble Giratina; especially notable is it's ability to deal with Xerneas, which can easily set up on Giratina. Fairy-types are also solid teammates, as they are able to switch in on Dragon- and Dark-type attacks and can often heal Giratina with cleric support. In turn, Giratina can switch into many Pokemon that Fairy-types despise, such as Scizor and Poison Arceus. Shed Shell Blissey can be run with Giratina, for a defensive core that doesn't fear Mega Gengar.

    Entry hazards are a big plus for Giratina as it can take advantage of them with its phazing move, and it doesn't particularly need Defog support. Stealth Rock in particular is easy to set up and lets Giratina deal with Ho-Oh much more easily. Spikes is also appreciated as it allows Giratina to pressurize checks more easily. Pokemon such as Dialga, Ferrrothorn, and Landrous-T are viable teammates that can set up entry hazards.

    Specially Defensive
    ########
    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Will-O-Wisp
    move 4: Dragon Tail / Roar
    ability: Pressure
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
    nature: Careful

    Moves
    ========

    There is very little need to change from what standard Giratina runs. While Will-O-Wisp may seem odd on a specially defensive set, it's still an important source of damage, and being able to halve damage from physical attacks makes this Giratina set frighteningly bulky overall.

    Set Details
    ========
    Run a Calm Nature if you choose Roar, as Giratina will take less damage from Foul Play.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    This Giratina is intended to wall special threats instead of physical ones. With important resistances to Water-, Electric-, and Fire-type attacks, this set can deal with many of the top special attacking threats. Especially notable is Kyogre, which can only threaten Giratina with a Choice Specs Ice Beam. While Giratina can't do much back apart from burning it and using Dragon Tail, it's still notable that it doesn't fall down to two Choice Specs Water Spouts. Other special threats such as Mega Mewtwo-Y and Calm Mind Arceus detest this Giratina. Not even Life Orb-boosted Draco Meteor coming from Dialga can OHKO this beast.

    Team Options
    ========

    Giratina is going to be supporting different Pokemon here since it walls different things. This set fits well on teams that can't afford or don't want to use Palkia or an Arceus forme to check Kyogre. Steel- and Fairy-types such as Xerneas, Scizor, and Sylveon are notable teammates, as they can switch into Giratina's weaknesses.

    Other Options
    ########

    A set consisting of Chesto Berry and Defog can be run if you need Defog support, but in general, you'll miss having reliable recovery with Leftovers and Sleep Talk. Rocky Helmet is also an option that be used over Leftovers to damage physical attackers such as Ho-Oh, which will take massive recoil damage with Brave Bird. But again, Leftovers recovery is generally preferred. Toxic is an option, as it does more damage than Will-O-Wisp over time, but it misses out on Steel-types, and the Attack drop from Will-O-Wisp is hard to pass up. Spite is an option that allows you to drain PP much more quickly, especially in tandem with Pressure, but Giratina generally needs the moveslot for more important moves. Any attacking options such as Calm Mind are better done by Giratina-O, which has better attacking stats.

    Checks & Counters
    ########

    **Fairy-types**: Fairies such as Xerneas, Sylveon, and Fairy Arceus can come in easily on Dragon Tail and hit Giratina hard with a super effective STAB move, and they will often have cleric moves to ignore Will-O-Wisp.

    **Dark-types**: Darkrai, Yveltal, and Dark Arceus can hit Giratina hard with Dark-type attacks, and many run Taunt, which will make its life miserable.

    **Dragon-types**: Palkia, Giratina-O, Zekrom, Kyurem-W, Rayquaza, etc. can hit Giratina with their high attacking stats and super effective STAB attacks. However, they must watch out for Dragon Tail. Dialga is especially notable for often being able to ignore Will-O-Wisp with a Lum Berry, being neutral to Dragon Tail, and hitting hard with Draco Meteor or Dragon Pulse.

    **Taunt**: Taunt leaves Giratina extremely vulnerable to any Pokemon, as its only usable move will be Dragon Tail, or Struggle if it runs Roar.

    **Substitute**: While Substitute can be countered by Roar, it can easily take advantage of weak Dragon Tails and allow free setup.

    **Ghost Arceus**: Ghost Arceus hits Giratina hard with a super effective Judgement, and it doesn't mind Dragon Tail or Will-O-Wisp that much.

    **Ho-Oh**: Some of the stronger sets such as Life Orb or Choice Band may be able to break Giratina's defenses with Brave Bird. Giratina struggles to do anything to Ho-Oh without Stealth Rock up, but Ho-Oh often can't do much back either.
    skeleton (open)
    Overview
    ########
    -walls things, which is cool
    -fuk extremekiller amirite?
    -rest is cool this gen, no longer resets
    -wow buff is cool
    -pressure is cool
    -ghost type fucks mega gengar
    -defog=no more hazard and spinblocking shenanigans
    -xerneas and yveltal are seriously gay. on the other hand, less powerful dragons seem to be around

    The gr8 Wall
    ########
    name: The Great Wall
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Will-O-Wisp
    move 4: Dragon Tail / Roar
    ability: Pressure
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
    nature: Impish

    Moves
    ========
    - RestTalk is your only recovery option
    - WoW does damage and cripples physical attackers
    - DTail hits though taunt can does damage, can miss occasionally
    - Roar hits through subs, never misses
    - I guess you could run both phazing options, but I see less value in it now with WoW hitting more and hazards being around less

    Set Details
    ========
    - might be a good idea to speed creep here
    - run Bold if you run roar, foul play does less

    Usage Tips
    ========
    - wall things and get the hell out. Not much to say
    - Pressure means you can stall things, such as Sacred Fire
    - sometimes vs ekiller it's better to phaze them out if they have lum and can 2HKO
    - don't let shit set up on you. Watch out for Taunt if you run Roar and Sub if you run Dtail
    - pretty good status absorber
    - you can check mega Blaziken: +2 252+ Atk Mega Blaziken (Knock Off) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 348-410 (69 - 81.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    - can take special hits like a champ, don't expect to wall specsogre

    Team Options
    ========
    - Gira is really the one doing the supporting here. Use on teams that need a check to Extremekiller, Mega Blaziken, physical attackers in general, and a status absorber
    - hazards are cool and Stealth Rock doesn't exactly bother Gira
    - things that can switch into Gira's weaknesses are appreciated here. Scizor is a good partner that can run a more specially defensive spread and switch into Fairies, Mega Gengar, etc. and smash them up. Scizor is notable for helping deal with Xerneas, who can totally set up on Giratina.
    - Have another mon to take hits from Ho-Oh since Gira can't do much back.
    - Fairies are also solid teammates since they can potentially heal Giratina of sleep with cleric moves and come in on Dragon and Dark moves. Xerneas and Sylveon are neat, just watch out for MGar.
    -Shed Shell Blissey pairing with this thing as a defensive duo that trolls the crap out of teams that rely on Mega Gengar to beat stall.

    Specially Defensive
    ########
    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Will-O-Wisp
    move 4: Dragon Tail / Roar
    ability: Pressure
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
    nature: Careful

    Moves
    ========
    - yeah

    Set Details
    ========
    - mhm
    - run calm if you run roar, foul play does less

    Usage Tips
    ========
    - checks special threats this time
    - Mewtwo-Y, Specs Kyogre, Deoxys-A (watch out for knock off), Calm Mind Arceus are easy prey. LO base 150 Draco Meteor fails to OHKO this beast
    - still bulky enough to wall physical threats, just don't use it as your sole check to extemekiller
    -not the best Kyogre check since you can't do much back and are usually outsped, but you wall any move apart from Ice Beam

    Team Options
    ========
    - Gira is going to be supporting different mons here since it walls different things. Fits well on teams that can't afford to use Grassceus, Waterceus, or Palkia to check Kyogre.

    Other Options
    ########
    - Defog (good fucking luck fitting that on a set)
    - Toxic, but Gira really likes the Physical Def boost from WoW
    - Calm Mind (eh, Gira-O is better at attacking, plus lol fairies)
    - Spite, but generally you'll need the moveslot more for other things
    - Chesto Berry and Rocky Helmet: Generally, you'll prefer having Leftovers recovery.
    - You can run chestorest set with defog, but only being able to recover once and no lefties sucks

    Checks & Counters
    ########
    -Main Categories: Fairies, Dark types, Dragons, Substitute, Taunt
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 22, 2014
  2. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
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    Ubers Co-Leader

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    I'd make DTail first just because without it you facepalm yourself and die vs Taunt Mewtwo X (Y as well if SDef) which Giratina checks well otherwise. Just stress that you need a good Xerneas counter like Scizor as Giratina is total set up food for it without Roar.

    Fairies are also solid teammates since they can potentially heal Giratina of sleep with cleric moves and come in on Dragon moves. Xerneas and Sylveon are neat, just watch out for MGar. You can mention Shed Shell Blissey pairing with this thing as a defensive duo that trolls the crap out of teams that rely on Mega Gengar to beat stall.

    SDef still needs to watch out for Knock Off Deoxys-A which is fairly common. Knock Off in general is a giant pain in the butt.

    You could maybe put Rocky Helmet in OO to punish people for using SE physical moves or weak resisted hits that make contact.

    I'll approve if no one else from QC has other comments.
  3. Ash Borer

    Ash Borer Throttle Chopper

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    chesto resto is your best shot at a defog set imo
  4. Manaphy

    Manaphy

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    Alright, I've specified some of the things from your (Fireburn's) post. I'll also leave Dragon Tail as first.
    Not entirely sure if that's viable atm, qc can help out here
  5. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
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    OO imo.

    When you mention CM in OO specifically mention RestTalk CM and that it kind of sucks now because lol fairies.

    QC 1/3
    Manaphy likes this.
  6. Manaphy

    Manaphy

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    Thanks; this has been updated
  7. Blue Jay

    Blue Jay The notorious J Lube
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    Be sure to mention some flaws briefly in the Overview (Taunt makes Giratina lame even with Dragon Tail, it has some big weaknesses and can't really hurt anything).

    I would remove the mention of Chesto on its own in OO, it's really not worth it beyond the Defog set, Leftovers do so much and not many moves are worth what it loses in RestTalk.

    I don't believe analyses are supposed to encourage speed creep, since that just leads to everyone trying to outcreep each other and everyone losing out, but just to be sure, Melee Mewtwo pls clarify?

    For SDef Giratina mention that it's not a great Specs Kyogre set (Ice Beam does a lot, will beat Giratina if it gets worn down a little, and Giratina can't hurt Kyogre)

    Fairies are useful teammates not only for Dragon-types but just as importantly for Dark-types.

    I'm pretty sure no other sets are viable beyond OO, because Giratina-O exists for more offensive stuff.

    All in all looks good though, just include these things in the write-up.

    QC: 2/3
  8. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo SO TIRED of listening to your nonsense, you massive gasbag!
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

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    Yeah, don't mention speed creep.

    Never tried it but how well does phys def with Rocky Helmet do against LO Ho-Oh? I imagine with all the recoil Ho-Oh would end up being on the losing end. (1/6 + 1/10 + whatever BB is)
  9. Manaphy

    Manaphy

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    Ho-Oh has Roost though, at best you're just gonna come to a stalemate, but Lefties does that too.
    Okay thanks. The big thing about SDef Gira is that it can come in on Kyigre multiple times and Dragon Tail it so that it can't have full-power spouts (no recovery ftw). Ice Beam sucks but a lot of other Pokemon can easily take advantage of a locked Ice Beam so it's more prediction-based really.
  10. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo SO TIRED of listening to your nonsense, you massive gasbag!
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

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    Lefties can't do much cause it gets 3hko'd by LO, if Rocky Helm forces Roosts then Tina could win the pp stall with pressure. Never tried it, though.
  11. Manaphy

    Manaphy

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    bumping since this has been written.
  12. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo SO TIRED of listening to your nonsense, you massive gasbag!
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

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    Giratina still likes hazards a lot, mention some good SR setters to get around Ho-Oh spamming and good spikes setters so that it can punish switches.
  13. Manaphy

    Manaphy

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    donez
  14. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo SO TIRED of listening to your nonsense, you massive gasbag!
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

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    Just posting as I think of things, mention how with RestTalk Giratina is a good status absorber, now. Something really useful in a status heavy metagame.
  15. Manaphy

    Manaphy

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    Kinda-already mentioned but I'll make it bigger.
  16. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo SO TIRED of listening to your nonsense, you massive gasbag!
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

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    QC Approved 3/3
    [​IMG]
  17. Legitimate Username

    Legitimate Username Today is always the most enjoyable day
    is an Artistis a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

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    Such a better The Great Wall than Lugia.
    Additions
    Removals
    (Comments)
    Changes (open)
    Overview
    ########

    While many changes have happened to it in the XY metagame occurred with the new generation, Giratina proves can still prove why it remains with its title of "The Great Wall". Having impressive 150/120/120 defensive stats, Giratina can deal with some of the hardest to check Pokemon in the game, such as Swords Dance Arceus, Kangaskhan, Blaziken, and Calm Mind Electric Arceus. On the other hand, the buff to Defog caused Giratina has lost to lose its important niche of in spinblocking, and the new Fairy-types just add another weakness on top of it's Dragon-, Ice-, Ghost-, and Dark-type ones. However, Giratina's Will-O-Wisp has gained an important accuracy boost, its Rest no longer resets upon switching out, and its Ghost-typing means that it cannot be trapped by the omnipresent Gengar, unlike many other walls. Ultimately, use Giratina at what it's good at, which is checking threats, and it will pay back handsomely.

    The Great Wall
    ########
    name: The Great Wall
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Will-O-Wisp
    move 4: Dragon Tail / Roar
    ability: Pressure
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
    nature: Impish

    Moves
    ========

    The moves listed here are Giratina's only options for it's role of walling things. Rest and Sleep Talk provide relaible recovery, and allow Giratina to shake off status. Giratina's ability to absorb status like it's nothing is important in a status-heavy metagame. Will-O-Wisp is an important source of damage for Giratina. It, and allows it to reliably check physical attackers. Dragon Tail and Roar are the phazing options Giratina uses can use to check certain set-up setup sweepers; Dragon Tail is preferred as it's damage output is important and it bypasses Taunt, but Roar is a viable option if you don't like Dragon Tail's accuracy or are worried about Substitute users. Running both Dragon Tail and Roar is an option, however, entry hazards are around much less to take advantage of this, and Will-O-Wisp's frustrating accuracy isn't as much of a problem.

    Set Details
    ========

    248 HP is EVs are used to minimize damage from Stealth Rock. Pressure is a great ability on a Pokemon like Giratina, and as it is useful for stalling low PP moves such as Sacred Fire. Run a Bold nature if you run choose Roar over Dragon Tail, as you Giratina will take less damage from Foul Play.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Giratina has one role goal: wall things and then get the hell out. Giratina can easily be taken advantage of by many Pokemon, especially ones with Taunt or Substitute, so it's best to use Giratina when you need him to check something and then switch-out switch out.

    Certain There are certain times when, it is better to phaze out an opponent rather than burning burn it. Especially An especially notable example is when against Lum Berry Swords Dance Arceus, as occasionally Arceus will occasionally be able to kill a weakened Giratina before it can be getting (I think this sounds less like Giratina is the one being burned) burned. Giratina is also bulky enough to be able to take many special attacks, even without investment. Use However, you should use another set if you want Giratina to be able to take on things such as Choice Specs Kyogre however.

    Team Options
    ========

    Giratina is the one doing the supporting its teammates here, so its team options are quite big large. In general, you should be using this on teams that need a physical wall and status absorber. Pokemon that can switch into many of Giratina's weaknesses are appreciated. Scizor is a notable option that can deal with Gengar and the Fairy-types that trouble Giratina. Especially notable is Scizor's ability to deal with Xerneas, who can easily set up on Giratina. Fairy-types are also solid teammates, being as they are able to switch into in on Dragon- and Dark-type attacks, and are often being able to heal Giratina with cleric support. In turn, Giratina can, in turn, switch into many Pokemon that Fairy-types despise, such as Scizor and Poison Arceus. Shed Shell Blissey can be run with Giratina, for a defensive core that fears no Gengar doesn't fear Mega Gengar.

    Entry hazards are a big plus for Giratina as it can take advantage of them with its phazing option move, and it doesn't particularly need Defog support at all. Stealth Rock in particular is easy to set-up set up and lets Giratina deal with Ho-Oh much easier more easily. Spikes is also appreciated as it allows Giratina to pressure its check much easier checks more easily. Pokemon such as Dialga, Ferrrothorn, and Landrous-T are viable teammates that can set-up set up entry hazards.

    Specially Defensive
    ########
    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Will-O-Wisp
    move 4: Dragon Tail / Roar
    ability: Pressure
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
    nature: Careful

    Moves
    ========

    There is very little need to change from what standard Giratina runs. While Will-O-Wisp might may seem odd on a Specially Defensive specially defensive set, it's still an important source of damage, and being able to halve damage from physical attacks makes this Giratina set frighteningly bulky overall.

    Set Details
    ========
    Run a Calm Nature if you run choose Roar;, as you will take less damage from Foul Play.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    This Giratina is intended to wall special threats instead of physical ones. Having With important resistances to Water-, Electric-, and Fire-type attacks, this set can deal with many of the top special attacking threats. Especially notable is Kyogre, who can only threatens threaten Giratina with a Choice Specs Ice Beam. While you can't do much back apart from burning it and using Dragon Tail, it's still notable that Giratina doesn't fall down to two Choice Specs Water Spouts. Other special threats such as Mega-Mewtwo-Y and Calm Mind Arceus detest this set Giratina. Not even Life Orb-boosted Draco Meteor coming from Dialga can OHKO this beast.

    Team Options
    ========

    Giratina is going to be supporting different Pokemon here since it walls different things. This set fits well on teams that can't afford or don't want to use Palkia or an Arceus forme to check Kyogre. Steel- and Fairy-types such as Xerneas, Scizor, and Sylveon are notable teammates, as they can like in other sets for being able to switch into Giratina's weaknesses.

    Other Options
    ########

    A set consisting of Chesto Berry and Defog can be run if you need Defog support, but in general, you'll miss having reliable recovery with Leftovers and Sleep Talk. Rocky Helmet is also an option that be used over Leftovers to hit damage physical attackers such as Ho-Oh, who will take massive recoil damage with Brave Bird. Again But again, Leftovers recovery is generally preferred. Toxic is an option, as over time, and it does more damage than burning over time Will-O-Wisp, but it misses out on Steel-types and the Defense boost Attack drop from Will-O-Wisp is hard to pass up. Spite is an option which that allows you to drain PP much more quickly, especially in tandem combined with Pressure, but Giratina generally needs the moveslot for more important moves. Any attacking options such as Calm Mind are better done by Giratina-O, who has better attacking stats.

    Checks & Counters
    ########

    **Fairy-types**: Fairies such as Xerneas, Sylveon, and Fairy Arceus can come in easily on Dragon Tail and hit Giratina hard with a super effective Fairy-type (seems redundant) STAB move, and will often times will have cleric moves to ignore Will-O-Wisp.

    **Dark-types**: Darkrai, Yveltal, and Dark Arceus can hit Giratina hard with Dark-type attacks, and many bring run Taunt, which will to make its life miserable.

    **Dragon-types**: Palkia, Giratina-O, Zekrom, Kyurem-W, Rayquaza, etc. can hit Giratina with their high attacking stats and super effective Dragon-type (also seems redundant) STAB attacks. They However, they must watch out for Dragon Tail however. Dialga is especially notable for often being able to ignore Will-O-Wisp with a Lum Berry, being neutral to Dragon Tail, and hitting hard with Draco Meteor or Dragon Pulse.

    **Taunt**: Leaves Taunt leaves Giratina extremely vulnerable to any Pokemon, as it's its only possible attack usable move will be Dragon Tail, or Struggle if you run it runs Roar.

    **Substitute**: Countered While Substitute can be countered by Roar, but it can easily take advantage of weak Dragon Tails and Substitutes for setting up allow free setup.

    **Ghost Arceus**: Hits Ghost Arceus hits Giratina hard with a super effective Judgement, and it doesn't mind Dragon Tail and burns or Will-O-Wisp that much.

    **Ho-Oh**: Some of the stronger sets such as Life Orb and or Choice Band may be able to break Giratina's defenses with Brave Bird. Giratina struggles to do anything back to Ho-Oh without Stealth Rock up, but often Ho-Oh often can't do much back either.
    Copypaste (open)
    Overview
    ########

    While many changes have occured with the new generation, Giratina can still prove why it remains with its title of "The Great Wall". Having impressive 150/120/120 defensive stats, Giratina can deal with some of the hardest to check Pokemon in the game, such as Swords Dance Arceus, Kangaskhan, Blaziken, and Calm Mind Electric Arceus. On the other hand, the buff to Defog caused Giratina to lose its important niche in spinblocking, and the new Fairy-types just add another weakness on top of it's Dragon-, Ice-, Ghost-, and Dark-type ones. However, Giratina's Will-O-Wisp has gained an important accuracy boost, its Rest no longer resets upon switching out, and its Ghost-typing means that it cannot be trapped by the omnipresent Gengar, unlike many other walls. Ultimately, use Giratina at what it's good at, which is checking threats, and it will pay back handsomely.

    The Great Wall
    ########
    name: The Great Wall
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Will-O-Wisp
    move 4: Dragon Tail / Roar
    ability: Pressure
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
    nature: Impish

    Moves
    ========

    The moves listed here are Giratina's only options for it's role of walling things. Rest and Sleep Talk provide relaible recovery and allow Giratina to shake off status. Giratina's ability to absorb status like it's nothing is important in a status-heavy metagame. Will-O-Wisp is an important source of damage for Giratina, and allows it to reliably check physical attackers. Dragon Tail and Roar are the phazing options Giratina can use to check certain setup sweepers; Dragon Tail is preferred as it's damage output is important and it bypasses Taunt, but Roar is a viable option if you don't like Dragon Tail's accuracy or are worried about Substitute users. Running both Dragon Tail and Roar is an option, however, entry hazards are around much less to take advantage of this, and Will-O-Wisp's frustrating accuracy isn't as much of a problem.

    Set Details
    ========

    248 HP EVs are used to minimize damage from Stealth Rock. Pressure is a great ability on a Pokemon like Giratina, as it is useful for stalling low PP moves such as Sacred Fire. Run a Bold nature if you Roar over Dragon Tail, as Giratina will take less damage from Foul Play.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Giratina has one goal: wall things and then get the hell out. Giratina can easily be taken advantage of by many Pokemon, especially ones with Taunt or Substitute, so it's best to use Giratina when you need him to check something and then switch out.

    There are certain times when it is better to phaze out an opponent rather than burn it. An especially notable example is when against Lum Berry Swords Dance Arceus, as Arceus will occasionally be able to kill a weakened Giratina before getting burned. Giratina is also bulky enough to be able to take many special attacks, even without investment. However, you should use another set if you want Giratina to be able to take on things such as Choice Specs Kyogre.

    Team Options
    ========

    Giratina is the one supporting its teammates here, so its team options are quite large. In general, you should be using this on teams that need a physical wall and status absorber. Pokemon that can switch into many of Giratina's weaknesses are appreciated. Scizor is a notable option that can deal with Gengar and the Fairy-types that trouble Giratina. Especially notable is Scizor's ability to deal with Xerneas, who can easily set up on Giratina. Fairy-types are also solid teammates, as they are able to switch in on Dragon- and Dark-type attacks, and are often able to heal Giratina with cleric support. In turn, Giratina can switch into many Pokemon that Fairy-types despise, such as Scizor and Poison Arceus. Shed Shell Blissey can be run with Giratina, for a defensive core that doesn't fear Mega Gengar.

    Entry hazards are a big plus for Giratina as it can take advantage of them with its phazing move, and it doesn't particularly need Defog support. Stealth Rock in particular is easy to set up and lets Giratina deal with Ho-Oh much more easily. Spikes is also appreciated as it allows Giratina to pressure checks more easily. Pokemon such as Dialga, Ferrrothorn, and Landrous-T are viable teammates that can set up entry hazards.

    Specially Defensive
    ########
    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Will-O-Wisp
    move 4: Dragon Tail / Roar
    ability: Pressure
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
    nature: Careful

    Moves
    ========

    There is very little need to change from what standard Giratina runs. While Will-O-Wisp may seem odd on a specially defensive set, it's still an important source of damage, and being able to halve damage from physical attacks makes this Giratina set frighteningly bulky overall.

    Set Details
    ========
    Run a Calm Nature if you choose Roar, as you will take less damage from Foul Play.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    This Giratina is intended to wall special threats instead of physical ones. With important resistances to Water-, Electric-, and Fire-type attacks, this set can deal with many of the top special attacking threats. Especially notable is Kyogre, who can only threaten Giratina with a Choice Specs Ice Beam. While you can't do much back apart from burning it and using Dragon Tail, it's still notable that Giratina doesn't fall down to two Choice Specs Water Spouts. Other special threats such as Mega-Mewtwo-Y and Calm Mind Arceus detest this Giratina. Not even Life Orb-boosted Draco Meteor coming from Dialga can OHKO this beast.

    Team Options
    ========

    Giratina is going to be supporting different Pokemon here since it walls different things. This set fits well on teams that can't afford or don't want to use Palkia or an Arceus forme to check Kyogre. Steel- and Fairy-types such as Xerneas, Scizor, and Sylveon are notable teammates, as they can switch into Giratina's weaknesses.

    Other Options
    ########

    A set consisting of Chesto Berry and Defog can be run if you need Defog support, but in general, you'll miss having reliable recovery with Leftovers and Sleep Talk. Rocky Helmet is also an option that be used over Leftovers to damage physical attackers such as Ho-Oh, who will take massive recoil damage with Brave Bird. But again, Leftovers recovery is generally preferred. Toxic is an option, as over time, it does more damage than Will-O-Wisp, but it misses out on Steel-types and the Attack drop from Will-O-Wisp is hard to pass up. Spite is an option that allows you to drain PP much more quickly, especially in tandem with Pressure, but Giratina generally needs the moveslot for more important moves. Any attacking options such as Calm Mind are better done by Giratina-O, who has better attacking stats.

    Checks & Counters
    ########

    **Fairy-types**: Fairies such as Xerneas, Sylveon, and Fairy Arceus can come in easily on Dragon Tail and hit Giratina hard with a super effective STAB move, and will often have cleric moves to ignore Will-O-Wisp.

    **Dark-types**: Darkrai, Yveltal, and Dark Arceus can hit Giratina hard with Dark-type attacks, and many run Taunt, which will make its life miserable.

    **Dragon-types**: Palkia, Giratina-O, Zekrom, Kyurem-W, Rayquaza, etc. can hit Giratina with their high attacking stats and super effective STAB attacks. However, they must watch out for Dragon Tail. Dialga is especially notable for often being able to ignore Will-O-Wisp with a Lum Berry, being neutral to Dragon Tail, and hitting hard with Draco Meteor or Dragon Pulse.

    **Taunt**: Taunt leaves Giratina extremely vulnerable to any Pokemon, as its only usable move will be Dragon Tail, or Struggle if it runs Roar.

    **Substitute**: While Substitute can be countered by Roar, it can easily take advantage of weak Dragon Tails and allow free setup.

    **Ghost Arceus**: Ghost Arceus hits Giratina hard with a super effective Judgement, and it doesn't mind Dragon Tail or Will-O-Wisp that much.

    **Ho-Oh**: Some of the stronger sets such as Life Orb or Choice Band may be able to break Giratina's defenses with Brave Bird. Giratina struggles to do anything back to Ho-Oh without Stealth Rock up, but Ho-Oh often can't do much back either.
    [​IMG]
    GP approved 1/2
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2014
  18. Manaphy

    Manaphy

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Messages:
    695
    Thanks I'll edit this ASAP
    And especially thanks for the copy paste, makes my life a lot easier :p
  19. Calm Pokemaster

    Calm Pokemaster
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,746
    Deletions
    Additions / Corrections
    Comments

    Show Hide

    Overview
    ########

    While many changes have occured with the new generation, Giratina can still prove why it remains with its title of "The Great Wall" remains intact. Having impressive 150/120/120 defensive stats, Giratina can deal with some of the hardest to check Pokemon to check in the game, such as Swords Dance Arceus, Kangaskhan, Blaziken, and Calm Mind Electric Arceus. On the other hand, the buff to Defog caused Giratina to lose its important niche in spinblocking, and the new Fairy-types just add another weakness on top of its Dragon-, Ice-, Ghost-, and Dark-type ones. However, Giratina's Will-O-Wisp has gained an important accuracy boost, its Rest no longer resets upon switching out, and its Ghost typing means that it cannot be trapped by the omnipresent Gengar, unlike many other walls. Ultimately, use Giratina at for what it's good at, which is checking threats, and it will pay back handsomely.

    The Great Wall
    ########
    name: The Great Wall
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Will-O-Wisp
    move 4: Dragon Tail / Roar
    ability: Pressure
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
    nature: Impish

    Moves
    ========

    The moves listed here are Giratina's only options for its role of walling things. Rest and Sleep Talk provide reliable recovery and allow Giratina to shake off status. Giratina's ability to absorb status like it's nothing is important in a status-heavy metagame. Will-O-Wisp is an important source of damage for Giratina, (remove comma) and allows it to reliably check physical attackers. Dragon Tail and Roar are the phazing options Giratina can use to check certain setup sweepers; Dragon Tail is preferred as its damage output is important and it bypasses Taunt, but Roar is a viable option if you don't like Dragon Tail's accuracy or are worried about Substitute users. Running both Dragon Tail and Roar is an option; however, entry hazards are around much less to take advantage of this, and Will-O-Wisp's frustrating accuracy isn't as much of a problem now. (you can't call it frustrating if it's better than before)

    Set Details
    ========

    248 HP EVs are used to minimize damage from Stealth Rock. Pressure is a great ability on a Pokemon like Giratina, as it is useful for stalling low PP moves such as Sacred Fire. Run a Bold nature if you prefer Roar over Dragon Tail, as Giratina will take less damage from Foul Play.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Giratina has one goal: wall things and then get the hell out. Giratina It can easily be taken advantage of by many Pokemon, especially ones with Taunt or Substitute, so it's best to use Giratina when you need him to check something and then switch out.

    There are certain times when it is better to phaze out an opponent rather than burn it. An especially notable example is when against Lum Berry Swords Dance Arceus, as Arceus will occasionally be able to kill a weakened Giratina before getting burned. Giratina is also bulky enough to be able to take many special attacks, even without investment. However, you should use another set if you want Giratina to be able to take on things such as Choice Specs Kyogre.

    Team Options
    ========

    Giratina is the one supporting its teammates here, so its team options are quite large many ('team options' is a countable noun, so you can't call it 'large'). In general, you should be using this on teams that need a physical wall and status absorber. Pokemon that can switch into many of Giratina's weaknesses are appreciated. Scizor is a notable option that can deal with Gengar and the Fairy-types that trouble Giratina; especially notable is Scizor's its ability to deal with Xerneas, which (You refer to Pokemon with 'it' and not 'he' or 'she', so stick to 'which' here) can easily set up on Giratina. Fairy-types are also solid teammates, as they are able to switch in on Dragon- and Dark-type attacks, (remove comma) and are often able to can often heal Giratina with cleric support. In turn, Giratina can switch into many Pokemon that Fairy-types despise, such as Scizor and Poison Arceus. Shed Shell Blissey can be run with Giratina, for a defensive core that doesn't fear Mega Gengar.

    Entry hazards are a big plus for Giratina as it can take advantage of them with its phazing move, and it doesn't particularly need Defog support. Stealth Rock in particular is easy to set up and lets Giratina deal with Ho-Oh much more easily. Spikes is also appreciated as it allows Giratina to pressurize checks more easily. Pokemon such as Dialga, Ferrrothorn, and Landrous-T are viable teammates that can set up entry hazards.

    Specially Defensive
    ########
    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Will-O-Wisp
    move 4: Dragon Tail / Roar
    ability: Pressure
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
    nature: Careful

    Moves
    ========

    There is very little need to change from what standard Giratina runs. While Will-O-Wisp may seem odd on a specially defensive set, it's still an important source of damage, and being able to halve damage from physical attacks makes this Giratina set frighteningly bulky overall.

    Set Details
    ========
    Run a Calm Nature if you choose Roar, as you Giratina ('you' refers to the player, not the Pokemon) will take less damage from Foul Play.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    This Giratina is intended to wall special threats instead of physical ones. With important resistances to Water-, Electric-, and Fire-type attacks, this set can deal with many of the top special attacking threats. Especially notable is Kyogre, which can only threaten Giratina with a Choice Specs Ice Beam. While you Giratina can't do much back apart from burning it and using Dragon Tail, it's still notable that Giratina doesn't fall down to two Choice Specs Water Spouts. Other special threats such as Mega Mewtwo-Y and Calm Mind Arceus detest this Giratina. Not even Life Orb-boosted Draco Meteor coming from Dialga can OHKO this beast.

    Team Options
    ========

    Giratina is going to be supporting different Pokemon here since it walls different things. This set fits well on teams that can't afford or don't want to use Palkia or an Arceus forme to check Kyogre. Steel- and Fairy-types such as Xerneas, Scizor, and Sylveon are notable teammates, as they can switch into Giratina's weaknesses.

    Other Options
    ########

    A set consisting of Chesto Berry and Defog can be run if you need Defog support, but in general, you'll miss having reliable recovery with Leftovers and Sleep Talk. Rocky Helmet is also an option that can be used over Leftovers to damage physical attackers such as Ho-Oh, which will take massive recoil damage with Brave Bird. But again, Leftovers recovery is generally preferred. Toxic is an option, as over time, it does more damage than Will-O-Wisp over time, but it misses out on Steel-types, (add comma) and the Attack drop from Will-O-Wisp is hard to pass up. Spite is an option that allows you to drain PP much more quickly, especially in tandem with Pressure, but Giratina generally needs the moveslot for more important moves. Any attacking options such as Calm Mind are better done by Giratina-O, which has better attacking stats.

    Checks & Counters
    ########

    **Fairy-types**: Fairies such as Xerneas, Sylveon, and Fairy Arceus can come in easily on Dragon Tail and hit Giratina hard with a super effective STAB move, and they will often have cleric moves to ignore Will-O-Wisp.

    **Dark-types**: Darkrai, Yveltal, and Dark Arceus can hit Giratina hard with Dark-type attacks, and many run Taunt, which will make its life miserable.

    **Dragon-types**: Palkia, Giratina-O, Zekrom, Kyurem-W, Rayquaza, etc. can hit Giratina with their high attacking stats and super effective STAB attacks. However, they must watch out for Dragon Tail. Dialga is especially notable for often being able to ignore Will-O-Wisp with a Lum Berry, being neutral to Dragon Tail, and hitting hard with Draco Meteor or Dragon Pulse.

    **Taunt**: Taunt leaves Giratina extremely vulnerable to any Pokemon, as its only usable move will be Dragon Tail, or Struggle if it runs Roar.

    **Substitute**: While Substitute can be countered by Roar, it can easily take advantage of weak Dragon Tails and allow free setup.

    **Ghost Arceus**: Ghost Arceus hits Giratina hard with a super effective Judgement, and it doesn't mind Dragon Tail or Will-O-Wisp that much.

    **Ho-Oh**: Some of the stronger sets such as Life Orb or Choice Band may be able to break Giratina's defenses with Brave Bird. Giratina struggles to do anything back to Ho-Oh without Stealth Rock up, but Ho-Oh often can't do much back either.


    [​IMG]

    GP 2 / 2
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2014
    Manaphy likes this.
  20. Manaphy

    Manaphy

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Messages:
    695
    Implemented; this is now done.
  21. Cobalt314

    Cobalt314

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Messages:
    301
    There's an extra space in "intact" in the overview :|
    Manaphy likes this.
  22. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego No matter if it seems so hard, friends are near
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor

    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Messages:
    3,096
    Melee Mewtwo I know I discussed this a while back, but sets NEED to be independent of each other. This needs to be fixed.
    Melee Mewtwo likes this.
  23. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo SO TIRED of listening to your nonsense, you massive gasbag!
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,402
    Manaphy Remind me about this next time I see you on IRC please
  24. Piexplode

    Piexplode I COULD BE BANNED!

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2013
    Messages:
    994
    Why is there no double phaze set (resttalk/roar/d tail)? I know that it's not a great mon anyway but with hazard support and special defensive investment it's pretty decent.
  25. mikelos

    mikelos

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2013
    Messages:
    91
    can defog work on this

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