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Glaceon (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Amarillo, Nov 7, 2011.

  1. Amarillo

    Amarillo
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    Glaceon

    [Overview]

    <p>Glaceon's claim to fame is its powerful Blizzard backed by a ridiculous base 130 Special Attack. Thanks to the permanent hail provided by Snover, Glaceon finally gets a chance to shine in RU. With its brand-new Ice Body ability, Glaceon wields serious power and bulk. While its stat distribution is mediocre, and it is easily outsped and KOed by super effective attacks, Glaceon can be a true menace with the right defensive support. Bar a select few special walls, none can stand in the way of its Blizzard spam.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Substitute
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Blizzard
    move 3: Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Fighting
    move 4: Protect
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Modest
    ability: Ice Body
    evs: 80 HP / 12 Def / 252 SpA / 164 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With Leftovers and Ice Body in effect, Glaceon can use Substitute until the cows come home. Being faster than most walls, Glaceon can set up a Substitute on the weak attacks of many walls, or when said walls are forced to heal up from the residual damage of hail and Toxic Spikes. In this fashion, Glaceon can easily beat Slowking and other troublesome Pokemon. On the other hand, offensive teams typically pack many members who outspeed Glaceon. However, Glaceon is still bulky enough to take a neutral hit such as Life Orb Thunderbolt from Rotom, and strike back for an OHKO, recovering much of its health in the process. If Glaceon manages to grab a free Substitute against an offensive team, it will be all but assured of a win because the opponent tends to be quite helpless to the Toxic stalling cycle of Substitute and Protect.</p>

    <p>Blizzard is Glaceon's attacking move of choice because of its high Base Power and perfect accuracy in hail. Moreover, it is strong enough to 2HKO otherwise troublesome Pokemon such as Qwilfish and specially bulky Gallade. A choice of Hidden Power is used to round off its coverage. Hidden Power Ground hits Lanturn and Qwilfish, while Hidden Power Fighting hits opposing Rotom-F and discourages reckless switches to Munchlax and Cryogonal; both also hit Steel-types such as Aggron and Magneton super effectively. Protect goes in the last slot as Glaceon's options are rather lacking, and Protect gives it scouting capabilities and an extra turn of recovery. Despite its striking resemblance to the infamous Stallrein set, this set plays quite differently. Glaceon will be hard-pressed to survive a neutral powerful move from any relevant offensive threat; if you don't take advantage of Glaceon's unique offensive traits, you may be better off using Walrein.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The Speed EVs are tailored to outpace uninvested Qwilfish, while the 80 HP EVs allow Glaceon to repeat Substitute and Protect without losing HP. Special Attack is maximized for obvious reasons, while the remaining EVs are dumped into Defense for increased bulk. Snover is a required teammate due to its Snow Warning ability, which activates Ice Body, giving Glaceon the recovery that allows this set to be so successful. Toxic Spikes support is another requirement, as it inflicts the poison status on otherwise troublesome Pokemon such as Slowking and Lanturn. Qwilfish is an excellent option for Toxic Spikes support – it has synergetic typing with most hail team members, and absorbs Toxic Spikes on your side of the field that will otherwise completely ruin Glaceon. Of course, running a Ghost-type in tandem is a must in order to prevent the opponent from simply spinning away the Toxic Spikes.</p>

    <p>This Glaceon is incredibly weak to status and entry hazards. The majority of Glaceon's bulk comes from its ability to Substitute and Protect without losing HP; with poison or burn draining its health, Glaceon will be left rather useless. Hence, teammates such as Heal Bell Lanturn may come in handy in case Glaceon gets hit by a stray Toxic. Also, Glaceon is susceptible to all forms of entry hazards; Stealth Rock chips away a whopping 25% of Glaceon's health, while Spikes limit its switches even further, and Toxic Spikes cripple it forever. Consequently, pairing Glaceon with a Rapid Spinner is a very wise decision. As most hail teams have several Pokemon weak to Stealth Rock, Rapid Spin support is essentially required on a hail team anyway.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice
    move 1: Blizzard
    move 2: Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Fighting
    move 3: Baton Pass
    move 4: Shadow Ball / Ice Beam
    item: Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Instead of meddling with Substitute and Protect, Glaceon may instead elect to pummel the opponent with Blizzard until it is out for the count. Choice Scarf patches up its heinous Speed and allows it to outpace base 120 Speed foes such as Sceptile. While it is still slower than Accelgor and most other Choice Scarf users, Glaceon will at least become fast enough to attempt a sweep. Alternatively, Choice Specs raises the power of Blizzard to destructive levels, enabling Glaceon to easily 2HKO special walls such as Clefable with its strong Blizzard. While the Choice Scarf set appreciates a strong Fighting-type attacker such as Hitmonlee to take advantage of special walls Glaceon is relatively helpless against, Choice Specs variants work well alongside fellow Blizzard users such as Rotom-F, which can clean up after Glaceon wrecks havoc.</p>

    <p>Blizzard is an obvious choice due to its sheer power, while Hidden Power is needed yet again in order to patch up Glaceon's lackluster coverage. Baton Pass allows Glaceon to scout, despite its weakness to Stealth Rock; with the help of Wynaut or Dugtrio, Glaceon's sweep will be made much easier. The last move will rarely see use, but Shadow Ball allows Glaceon to hit Slowking hard, while Ice Beam is a reliable attack in case hail is not active or Blizzard runs out of PP.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs provide maximum Speed and Special Attack; just make sure that Glaceon's HP is not divisible by 4 so as to reduce Stealth Rock damage. If equipped with a Choice Scarf, Timid is the nature of choice as it allows Glaceon to outspeed Sceptile and Dugtrio. A spread of 92 HP / 252 SpA / 164 Spe with a Modest nature is also acceptable on the Choice Specs set, though, because an unboosted Glaceon will rarely outspeed an opposing offensive Pokemon. Ice Body is the preferred ability as it somewhat mitigates Glaceon's Stealth Rock weakness; still, there will be instances when a Snow Cloak miss will be the only path to victory, and this is hence an option. Naturally, this set requires Snover as a teammate in order to abuse its powerful Blizzard in hail. Because Choice items increase switching, Rapid Spin support is just as important for this set. This set receives much competition from the likes of Rotom-F and Jynx, with Glaceon's superior damage output being its only advantage: used to its full potential, Choice Glaceon can be an offensive juggernaut that leaves large holes in the opponent's team.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Just like its fellow Eeveelutions, Glaceon possesses a heinous movepool limited to STAB Blizzard, Hidden Power, and a few niche coverage moves. However, unlike its sisters, whose Hidden Powers are set in stone, Glaceon has more options: Ice is such a good attacking type, and there are significantly fewer Steel-types in RU. Other than Hidden Power Ground and Fighting, other possible Hidden Power types include Electric, Grass, and Fire. Fake Tears or Work Up may also be used to boost its power, but Glaceon truly does not need additional power and will often not find the time to set up anyway.</p>

    <p>Other than Blizzard and Hidden Power, Glaceon has access to support options in Wish, Baton Pass, and Heal Bell. However, Walrein outclasses a defensive Substitute set. Additionally, Heal Bell is illegal with Ice Body, further reducing the potential of a defensive set. Toxic may sound like an odd option, but it has its uses on the Substitute set to soften up opposing Cryogonal and Articuno, while spreading the hated poison status in case you cannot afford to set up Toxic Spikes. Finally, scraping the bottom of the barrel of Glaceon's entire competitive movepool, Frost Breath can allow Glaceon to beat Calm Mind users, but they should have a hard time setting up in front of Glaceon anyway.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Cryogonal and Munchlax are both full stops to any Glaceon set. Munchlax can weather even boosted attacks, but will quickly lose health to residual damage. On the other hand, Cryogonal can outspeed and Toxic Glaceon while laughing at its Blizzards. Still, Glaceon can outstall Cryogonal if the latter has already been poisoned, so it is important to play conservatively with Cryogonal to fully counter Glaceon.</p>

    <p>Other special walls such as Clefable, Lanturn, Slowking, and Thick Fat Hariyama can take Blizzard and strike back. However, Clefable is vulnerable to a boosted Blizzard, while the other three are maimed by Toxic Spikes. Lanturn does get access to Heal Bell, which prevents Toxic stalling. Moreover, considering that hail's main—and often, only—sweepers are Rotom-F and Glaceon, Lanturn is a major obstacle to all hail teams.</p>

    <p>Outside of these three special walls, it is nearly impossible to switch into Glaceon. However, Glaceon will easily fold to a super effective STAB, making faster Fire- or Fighting-types excellent checks. Glaceon is also weak to all three hazards, which will severely limit its switching, rendering it far easier to wall. Finally, opposing weather teams based on Rain Dance or Sunny Day will severely interfere with Glaceon's power source and make it useless.<p>
  2. EonADS

    EonADS

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    Definite no to the possibility of Fake Tears... the only thing it really helps you beat is Thick Fat Hariyama (which should be mentioned under Checks and Counters, btw), and even then it's still a 2HKO with Modest Leftovers Blizzard under optimal conditions. Thick Fat Eviolite Munchlax only takes 23.8% - 28.3% from Blizzard at -2, and 36.9% - 43.6% from HP Fighting. That's a 3HKO at best.

    Please mention that you absolutely need Rapid Spinners to use this thing. Just because it has Ice Body doesn't mean that Stealth Rock doesn't suck, and T-Spikes completely neuters the second set.

    Mention that Heal Bell is illegal with Ice Body, so defensive sets are even less worth it.

    Mention Work Up, since it lets you make your STAB Blizzard stronger.

    Mention what speed teir Timid Scarf Glaceon outspeeds (Base 120s).
  3. Molk

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    Amarillo, after testing both Hp types, i'd have to say that Hp ground is the better option if only to hit qwilfish, qwilfish is becoming very common and glaceon needs a method to hit it, especially on the sub set. also mention, snover (duh) rotom-F and walrein as teammates, especially rotom-f as most teams cant handle repeated blizzards.
  4. Amarillo

    Amarillo
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    @EonADS: I added everything on the list you had, other than the Spin support which was kinda there. But I made that more clear anyways. I thought that in any Hail team you take Snover and a Spinner for granted.

    @MoltenKyurem: Yeah, that set's what I've been playing with since when Yanmega was around, and there were lots of Munchlax back then so I thought it was suicidal to go out there without HP Fighting. It still doesn't do jack, but if you catch Munchie on the switch and hit it twice, its HP goes in the red thanks to all that Hail + Tspikes damage. If it's not poisoned, it's gotta be sleeping, so it's easily abusable with my other mons.

    But then now I no longer see that many Munchlax a lot more HP types become viable. Most notable is Electric, Ground, and Fighting Hidden Power because they give near-flawless coverage. So I theorymonned some more, and realized HP Ground is probably better for retaining coverage on steels (getting more common) and still hitting Lanturn and other things, which is why I slashed HP Ground in front despite the fact that I worked with HP Fight more =3. Lanturn with Heal Bell is really annoying if your offensive core consists of Blizzard and HP nothing Glaceon and Rotom-F.

    Btw, Blizzard does 2HKO 252 HP / 0 SpD Qwilfish comfortably with SR, so you'll consistently 2HKO unless the guy is heavily investing in Special Defense, which it almost never will. Qwilfish's bulk comes from mostly intimidate, and it needs to capitalize on its physical bulk. It will often run speed EVs too, so it can't afford to leak EVs on special defense.
  5. EonADS

    EonADS

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    Snover yes, Spinners... for the most part yeah, but to take something for granted in an analysis, it should follow the philosophy of "any idiot would know this". Unfortunately, there are idiots who would either use Hail without spinners or don't know any better. Of course, some genius might also figure out a way to use Hail without Spin support, but meh. Better safe than sorry.

    Also, since you were wondering if a better spread existed for the second set... 132 HP / 252 SpA / 124 Spe outruns uninvested Base 80s, which nets most RU/NU walls. Upping the Speed EV count to 164 nets Articuno as well, but it's not a very important target. Idk if you would really classify that as "better", but it's definitely bulkier.

    Finally, make sure to emphasize that there is no possible way for the second set to beat Cryogonal.
  6. Amarillo

    Amarillo
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    Yeah that spread looks pretty good--I'll take the 164 speed EV one because of Qwilfish is also base 85. It is as MoltenKyurem said is getting more popular. Outspeeding and 2HKOing is significantly better than just 2HKOing at the cost of your sub. Now I just need to make sure if 92 HP EVs are going to slowly drain me of HP or not.

    edit: it gets me 1 HP per cycle. idk what this means though. I kinda suck at math =(
  7. EonADS

    EonADS

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    ^ Ah right, Qwilfish. It also lets you outspeed Gligar, which is cool I guess.

    Also, mention Frost Breath. The 100% crit rate lets Glaceon beat stat boosters more easily.

    ...Jeez. That's easily Glaceon's entire usable movepool.
  8. zdrup15

    zdrup15
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    I've already told you on IRC to put the Sub set on the first place. Mention that with tspikes support it can overcome even slowking and cryogonal that are two of the worst enemies to hail teams. Otherwise:

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  9. Molk

    Molk tfw zoroark
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    Cryo is unaffected by tspikes so glaceon still can't beat it
  10. Amarillo

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    Yes, Glaceon can't ever beat Cryo 1-vs-1. It needs something else to inflict status on Cryo for it, after which Glaceon can theoretically stall it out, and if you accurately predict the switch-out in an attempt to reset Toxic count, you're getting his mon one by one. Even then, this IMO not a preferred matchup because Cryo can spin away hazards, so if he happens to have 2 Blizzard absorbers you're in for a tough fight.

    I mean, something like a surprise Toxic from teammates might be helpful to make that happen.
  11. zdrup15

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    I've often been in a situation where both Slowking and Cryogonal were poisoned (against Molten Kyurem for example, Slowking was poisoned by Toxic Spikes and the Cryogonal by Walrein) and I had already written that slowking could be toxic stalled and just added cryo without explaining it. Since it's common for hail teams to run both Walrein and Sub Glaceon I'd mention it
  12. Blue_Star

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    Maybe mention Registeel as a good counter to it? It has 80/150 special bulk, resistance to Blizzard and can 3HKO with Iron Head.
  13. col49

    col49 unpolished
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    It also does not exist in RU...
  14. PK Gaming

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  16. Amarillo

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    OK writing will be up shortly.

    edit: written
  17. Komodo

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    1/2

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  18. Amarillo

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    Implemented.
  19. Jellicent

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  20. Amarillo

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    Implemented. I tried fixing the second sentence in the Substitute set's set comments, but still sounds pretty awkward. =(
  21. sirndpt

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    lemme have a go :p

  22. Spork

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    Did I fix your boxing metaphor or am I missing something here? ;)
  23. Jellicent

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    Glaceon can set up a substitute on the weak attacks of many walls, or when said walls are forced to heal up from the residual damage of hail and Toxic Spikes.

    It's an awkward sentence, but that's a bit more concise...
  24. Amarillo

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    Yeah i was trying to point out the lack of parallelism between [weak attacks] and [when walls heal up] but couldn't remember the word parallelism >.> Meh idk maybe they're parallel but my brain just works differently. Pretty sure either of yours (was / were: screw grammar y/n? but i digress.) better than my version, though ;)

    Also, talking about not remembering a word, nice catch Spork! xD
  25. sirndpt

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    remove add comments

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