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Glaceon (QC 3/3) (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Alice, Jan 29, 2012.

  1. Alice

    Alice The worst taste in music

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    GLACEON

    [​IMG]

    [Overview]

    <p>Despite a glaring Stealth Rock weakness, a limited movepool, and below-average type coverage, Glaceon is a force to be reckoned with in the NU tier. Nearly unstoppable in the heyday of hail before it was banned, Glaceon's glory days seem to be now long forgotten. However, Glaceon still wields the most powerful Ice Beam and Blizzard in the game, and with its decent bulk and a Choice Specs boost, it can plow through a number of teams just the same. Its pure Ice typing is a double-edged sword: Ice provides it with an awesome STAB move, but on the other hand, it received a load of weaknesses to common attacks, notably Fire and Fighting, and only one resistance. Although one might believe Glaceon can only boast of its superb Special Attack; it can also be used for Wish support or scouting with Baton Pass.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Ice Beam
    move 2: Hidden Power Ground
    move 3: Shadow Ball
    move 4: Wish / Baton Pass
    item: Choice Specs
    nature: Modest
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is your classic Choice Specs set. Ice Beam is the main move here due to its sheer power and the good coverage of Ice attacks, and does huge damage to anything that doesn't resist it. Hidden Power Ground provides useful super-effective coverage against the Rock-type walls that will try to stop it, and might even catch a Magmortar bold enough to switch in expecting to sponge an Ice Beam and fire back hard. However, beware of Flying-types and Levitate users coming in for free. Shadow Ball lets Glaceon hit bulky Psychics harder than Ice Beam does. The last slot is mainly filler, but both options have their merits: Wish can help out a wounded member of the team, and it's recommended with the bulkier spread that increases Glaceon's healing capabilities. On the other hand, a dry Baton Pass lets Glaceon scout switch-ins, so you can keep the momentum.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread maximizes bulk and firepower. For example, Jolly Choice Scarf Braviary can only do 69.5% - 82% with Superpower, so even after Stealth Rock damage, Glaceon has a decent shot at surviving and being able to KO back. Alternatively, you can run a spread of 64 HP / 252 SAtk / 192 Spe to outrun standard Absol, along with other dangerous sweepers such as Adamant Torterra and Adamant Ursaring. Glaceon can also elect to use Hidden Power Fighting for perfect neutral coverage, as well as for a super effective hit on its common switch-ins, namely Bastiodon, Probopass, Cryogonal, Regirock, and Regice without the inconvenience of being locked into a Ground-type move.</p>

    <p>Even with such power, some dedicated special walls, such as Probopass, specially defensive Regirock, Thick Fat Miltank, Lickilicky, and Cryogonal, can still sponge Glaceon's assaults. As such, Sawk makes a good partner, due to its ability to pierce through said Pokemon and allow Glaceon to keep pounding the opposition without much restraint. Emboar also helps Glaceon, as its dual-STAB does huge damage to most threats that wall Glaceon. Absol is another good partner, as he can set up in front of said special walls without much hassle.</p>

    <p>Due to the hit-and-run nature of any Choice set, as well as this one's glaring weakness to Stealth Rock, Rapid Spin support is recommended to give Glaceon more chances to switch in. Hazard support is welcome too, as it helps Glaceon do its job better by making it harder for the aforementioned walls to stop him. Toxic Spikes in particular aid Glaceon greatly, making many of the aforementioned special walls unable to wall him endlessly, thus eventually breaking through them due to racked-up toxic damage. Specially defensive Tentacool is a great spinner to pair with Glaceon, because it not only spins and lays Toxic Spikes, but can also can sponge hits from the likes of Magmortar and Fighting-type Pokemon, who can check Glaceon and force it out. Golem is also a nice partner thanks to its ability to set up Stealth Rock, as well as threaten special walls with its powerful STAB EdgeQuake.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>You can try giving Glaceon a Choice Scarf to let it outspeed many threatening sweepers, but the loss of power hurts. A Life Orb set with Fake Tears can be viable as it better deals with stall teams, but it would need more team support as Glaceon's Stealth Rock weakness would be compounded by Life Orb recoil. Blizzard is also an option in the fourth slot just for its sheer power, but beware of the 70% accuracy. If running Blizzard, it's recommended to pair it with Ice Beam for insurance, due to the latter's perfect accuracy and higher PP. You can also try other Hidden Power options in order to hit certain bothersome walls, should your team need it; Hidden Power Grass lets Glaceon hit Bulky Water-types harder, while Hidden Power Rock enables it to deal more damage to Cryogonal, Regice and specially defensive Flareon, while hitting Magmortar, Swellow and Braviary real hard on the switch. Glaceon can also attempt a Baton Pass set, which is viable thanks to its natural bulk access to boosting options such as Work Up and Barrier, and even Wish</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Even with that mighty Ice Beam causing terror among the opposition, there are some threats that Glaceon should watch out for. Bulky Normal-type Pokemon, namely Lickilicky and Thick Fat Miltank, as well as special walls, such as Regice and Cryogonal, have enough bulk to withstand Glaceon's assaults. Regice takes less damage but Cryogonal can spin away rocks and other hazards, making it harder to break through. Bastiodon and Probopass can tank Ice Beam and Shadow Ball as well, but they should beware of a 4x super effective Hidden Power Ground or Fighting. Bulky Water-types such as Alomomola also perform well, as they resist Ice Beam, take neutral damage from Hidden Power Ground and Shadow Ball, and have reliable recovery in the form of Wish. Specially defensive Flareon also works well as it sponges most of Glaceon's attacks and threatens Glaceon with its STAB Fire-type ones.</p>

    <p>Still, the major problems Glaceon will face are faster, stronger, revenge killers with super effective attacks, such as Sawk and Magmortar, which can check it and scare it away. Last but not least, Stealth Rock makes life hard for Glaceon, as it drastically limits Glaceon's ability to switch in.</p>
  2. col49

    col49 what.
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    uh, I wouldn't really call Flareon and Regice large threats in this meta. Sure theres Jynx, but Shadow Ball hits it just fine. Hp Ground just generally gets better overall coverage, so I would imagine that would be fine. I question the value of a choice-locked Wish over the switch advantage of bp, but i could be wrong there, I dunno. Also, maybe mention a slightly faster spread (188 Speed EVs hit that huge "outspeed Adamant Torterra" benchmark)?

    edit:missed the faster spread mention, derp.
  3. Death Phenomeno

    Death Phenomeno I'm polite so just for clarity, when I'm cross I
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    Uhh… nope. She's tied for 1st, actually.
  4. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken is it true what they say, that words are weapons?
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    Hi, just pointing out that you need a Quality Control tag and (QC 0/3) in your title. You can edit this by clicking "Edit" on your post and then going into advanced options. Will give a closer look to this in a few minutes.
  5. Alice

    Alice The worst taste in music

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    yeah, you're right, for a second I thought she had 125 base spatk...

    I'm correcting this XD

    @ col49

    I used to run hp ground back then, when magneton was around; but I believe in this new NU meta hp rock is more useful, because there are barely any steel types there, and still cryogonal is the premier spinner and a good special wall, which can stop glacy in his tracks >_<

    If any I'd use hp grass to deal with alomomola and other bulky waters, or hp fighting for coverage... (still hits cryo hard)

    @ Zebraiken: Done, thanks n_n
  6. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    I'd probably use Baton Pass over Wish, Baton Pass is like a pesudo U-turn/Volt Switch, and Wish isn't exactly the best move for a choiced Pokemon, nor will it heal any Pokemon that much. Of course, Baton Pass isn't a good move to spam when Stealth Rock is on your side, but if you're really unsure about what will switch-in, you have hazards up, and/or you need to use it to try and gain momentum, Baton Pass is an effective choice.
  7. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    Wouldn't a support set be viable?

    Seeing as both Leafeon and Flareon got one, Glaceon should too. Glaceon has much better overall defense, with 65 / 110 / 95 (Leafeon has 65 / 130 / 65, while Flareon has 65 / 60 / 110). And we certainly won't need to talk about the offensive difference. I'm pretty sure Glaceon has fairly easy time against Jynx, especially if Jynx only has Ice Beam; Glaceon has Roar to remove Jynx from the field and hits her hard with Shadow Ball.

    And SR weakness is a bad counter argument, since Flareon has one too.

    EDIT:

    Well, when I logged out and was waiting for my ride back to work, I thought of how Glaceon could take on Swellow with that great Defense, but was a little unsure about the damage Swellow does back.

    Now, I did the calcs and they were better than I expected. Not counting SR damage (or Spikes for that matter), Swellow can't even 2HKO Glaceon with Facade.

    Calcs:

    Jolly Swellow: Facade: 252/252+ Glaceon 35.02 - 41.31%
    Jolly Swellow Brave Bird: 252/252+ Glaceon 29.94 - 35.32%

    This might bring you to Braviary, well it certainly popped into my mind; calcs:

    Adamant Braviary Superpower: 252/252+ Glaceon 56.28 - 66.46%
    Adamant Braviary Brave Bird: 252/252+ Glaceon 42.21 - 49.7%
    Adamant Braviary Return: 252/252+ Glaceon 35.32 - 42.21%

    And then Jynx, what can the standard set do?; calcs:

    Timid Jynx Ice Beam: 252/4 Glaceon 22.15 - 26.04%
    Timid Jynx +6 Ice Beam: 252/4 Glaceon 88.02 - 103.89% (Might not be the most possible situation, but y'know)

    So either way, physically defensive or specially defensive, it doesn't really matter, it depends on what you need. I would prefer a physically defensive set to be added, just to deal with those birds that Leafeon and Flareon can't, with a specially defensive spread mentioned in the AC. A specially defensive Glaceon still has trouble against the Offensive NP Jynx, but the SubPlot one can't do much.

    And just for fun, what Glaceon can do back:

    Bold Glaceon Ice Beam: 0/0 Swellow 170.11 - 200.76%
    Bold Glaceon Ice Beam: 0/0 Braviary 95.01 - 112.6% (Might need SR sometimes)
    Bold Glaceon Shadow Ball: 8/0 Jynx 55.67 - 65.93% (If you want to dispose of Jynx, otherwise just Roar)

    Something like this maybe:

    [SET]
    name: Support
    move 1: Ice Beam
    move 2: Wish
    move 3: Roar / Shadow Ball
    move 4: Protect / Heal Bell / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
  8. Alice

    Alice The worst taste in music

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    @ superJOCKE

    Those calcs are interesting, but I recall running a support set when hail was available and Glacy was way more viable, and it didn't performed that well, mainly due to all those weaknesses (not only SR)...

    but if you still think it's worthy enough I can work on one n_n
  9. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    I still think it should be in there. But yet again, it's not my call.

    However, to base its viablity on weaknesses are dumb. Glaceon has only one more weakness than Flareon, while one of them aren't even common (Steel). Glaceon also has one less weakness than Leafeon, though one weakness is Poison (it is basically as common as Steel though).

    I think that it's not a good reason not to add one, since Glaceon can take on the birds with ease, while also being able to handle the main Jynx set without being specially defensive is good enough to merit a set.

    I could also check what specially Glaceon can take from the likes from Gorebyss or something too if you want, and what Glaceon can do back.

    EDIT:

    Ok, so I did the calcs and they weren't too shabby either:

    Timid Gorebyss +2 Surf: 252/252+ Glaceon 63.17 - 74.55%
    Timid Rotom-S (Scarf) Thunderbolt: 252/252+ Glaceon 29.94 - 35.32%
    Timid Rotom-S (Specs) Thunderbolt: 252/252+ Glaceon44.91 - 52.99%
    Modest Samurott (LO) Hydro Pump: 252/252+ Glaceon 55.08 - 64.97%
    Timid Jynx (LO) Focus Blast: 252/252+ Glaceon 69.46 - 82.03%
    Timid Jynx (Scarf) Focus Blast: 252/252+ Glaceon 69.46 - 82.03%
    Timid Jynx (LO) Psychic: 252/252+ Glaceon 39.52 - 46.7%
    Timid Jynx +2 (LO) Psychic: 252/252+ Glaceon 78.14 - 91.91%
    Timid Jynx (Scarf) Psychic: 252/252+ Glaceon 30.53 - 35.92%

    Calm Glaceon Hidden Power Grass/Electric: 4/0 Gorebyss 63.49 - 75.39%
    Calm Glaceon Ice Beam: 4/0 Rotom-S 100 - 119%
    Calm Glaceon Hidden Power Grass/Electric: 0/4 Samurott 51.35 - 60.42%
    Calm Glaceon Shadow Ball: 0/4 Jynx 55.35 - 65.68%

    (These are just coverage moves basically if your team is in need of having these Pokémon removed blah blah)

    Yeah, I think you should add a support set with a physically defensive spread as the main one, with the moves I listed above (in some combination), with a specially defensive spread in the AC. But then it's up to if QC agrees.
  10. tennisace

    tennisace
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    I agree with HP Ground > HP Rock on the Specs set, you shouldn't be trying to hit Cryogonal anyway. It hits Bastiodon/Probopass/Regirock which are going to be your most common switches into Glaceon.

    As for a defensive set, those calcs impress me a lot actually. I might test it out and get back to you guys.
  11. Alice

    Alice The worst taste in music

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    Well, regirock still takes a huge chunk from ice beam; the other two are ok but I rather use hp fighting, because being locked in hp ground means both Swellow and Braviary get in for free... and that's not a good thing. Hp fighting also hits the icey special walls hard.

    And hp rock also hits magmotar hard if he thinks he can tank an ice beam and start dishing out damage like a madman, lol...

    EDIT: ok I put the three hp, but I still think Hp fighting > ground for the reason mentioned above
  12. Omicron

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    Just mention HP Fighting and Rock in the AC since both lower yur speed iv. Keep HP Ground as the only option imo
  13. Alice

    Alice The worst taste in music

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    You don't really need the speed; besides both EV spreads are considering that -1 speed, so it's no big deal (the speedy spread is tailored to outspeed standard absol with hp rock/fighting)

    and I insist, being locked into hp ground when 2 of the deadliest sweepers in the tier are flyers isn't a great idea >_> (at least is way better to lose 4 hp ev's than that)
  14. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken is it true what they say, that words are weapons?
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    HP Ground should really be the primary option. HP Fighting hits uhh Lickilicky and Cryogonal, both of whom you don't beat anyway. Yes, Swellow and Braviary "get in for free" but you must also consider that those two have quite a list of counters and checks and it's pretty simple to prepare for them, and arguing that they can predict HP Ground and switch in isn't really valid when you're talking analyses. HP Ground hits Magmortar, who you mentioned before, and has excellent neutral coverage overall with Ice Beam. Every QC member who has posted here agrees that it should definitely be first. I'm really thinking that HP Rock should just be removed in general, as Ice Beam nails the birds and Magmortar is hit super effectively by HP Ground anyway. HP Fighting should be next if it's deserving of a slash at all, although I'm doubting you do a whole lot to Cryogonal and Lickilicky anyway. It does hit Thick Fat Miltank for super effective damage, which is notable.

    I'm curious about that defensive set, too. My only qualm is the lack of any real resistances (uhhh nice Ice-type resist), but those calcs are neat.
  15. Alice

    Alice The worst taste in music

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    ok, hp ground as main.

    If you guys agree on superJOCKE's suggestions, I may add those sets.
  16. Death Phenomeno

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    Could Barrier work on a defensive set, or would it be "too much"?
  17. Alice

    Alice The worst taste in music

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    Well, it may work on a support set with bp... :P
  18. Steamroll

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    waiting for tennis to get back on that defensive set... I want his take on it, too. Imo it should be added, the fact that it can stop Swellow and Braviary in their tracks is more than enough to sway me (I'd love to see Sawk too but I'm getting ahead of myself).
  19. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken is it true what they say, that words are weapons?
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    Also mention Lickilicky in checks & counters; it's far more prominent than either of the special wall examples you've given. Thick Fat Miltank may be worth mentioning as well, as it has that resistance to Ice-type moves. Otherwise this looks pretty good; waiting on the response to that defensive set, too. If it needs more time or something, we can hold off on it for now and add it in later.
  20. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    Only for you Steamroll, here's some Sawk calcs:

    CS Jolly Sawk Close Combat vs. 252/252+ Glaceon 77.24 - 91.61%
    CS Adamant Sawk Close Combat vs. 252/252+ Glaceon 85.02 - 100.59%

    Glaceon can't obviously survive a CB Close Combat from Sawk.

    Bold Glaceon 0 SpA Ice Beam vs. 0/0 Sawk 61.16 - 72.5%
    Bold Glaceon 0 SpA Ice Beam vs. -1 0/0 Sawk 92.09 - 108.59%

    (If you're going add it later, could I do it? :D)
  21. Alice

    Alice The worst taste in music

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    Done.

    Also added BPassing options in "other options"
  22. Steamroll

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    screw Tennis, the defensive set mentioned earlier is good enough for site.

    QC 1/3
  23. tennisace

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    [​IMG]

    defensive set is good, screw you steamrollsoffat
  24. Omicron

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    gogogo defensive set

    QC 3/3
  25. Alice

    Alice The worst taste in music

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    Be my guest n_n

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