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Glaceon [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Malkyrian, Jan 19, 2013.

  1. Malkyrian

    Malkyrian

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    Let's see what the most elegant Eeveelution can do...

    QC: Oglemi, Molk, Hot N Cold
    GP: Oglemi, melvni

    Glaceon

    [Overview]
    <p>Glaceon is one of the dominant forces of hail in RU, with a Blizzard so enormously powerful it 2HKOes everything that doesn't resist it
    &mdash;and that's assuming no entry hazards. It's surprisingly bulky, too&mdash;short of hitting it super effectively, not many attackers are able to OHKO Glaceon before it wipes them out. Glaceon can even use hail to stall, in one of the most annoying sets hail teams have to offer.</p>

    <p>However, Glaceon certainly isn't without its flaws. Its base 65 Speed is quite low, and it has no way of boosting it. Its Ice typing is a double-edged sword, giving it nasty weaknesses that compromise its otherwise great bulk. Its movepool is very small, making it rather predictable once you know which set it's running. Finally, it requires the weak Snover as a teammate to provide the hail that makes it viable. If you can get around these flaws, though, Glaceon will rarely disappoint you.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Blizzard
    move 2: Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Fire
    move 3: Shadow Ball
    move 4: Frost Breath / Baton Pass
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Ice Body
    nature: Modest
    evs: 8 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Given that Glaceon has the highest Special Attack of any Pokemon legal in RU play, it is no surprise that it can run a viable Choice Specs set. Blizzard is the key to this set; with STAB, Choice Specs, and hail backing it up, it becomes a perfect-accuracy move with 180 Base Power from an effective Special Attack of almost 590. Even many Pokemon that resist the move need be afraid; for example, standard Crawdaunt is always OHKOed by Blizzard even without any entry hazards after factoring in hail damage. Being generally bulky isn't enough to save Glaceon's hapless victims either, as even max HP Spiritomb is effortlessly OHKOed, again with only hail damage for support. Whenever your opponents lack a healthy team member that has both special bulk and an Ice resistance, simply select Blizzard; it is almost certain they'll be losing a Pokemon.</p>

    <p>Shadow Ball is used entirely for Slowking, but is still the most viable coverage move in Glaceon's shallow movepool. Ground is the preferred Hidden Power type, beating Pokemon that can take a Blizzard after Stealth Rock and hail damage such as Emboar, Lanturn, and Kabutops. Hidden Power Fire is a viable alternative, as it is Glaceon's best weapon against Steel-types that aren't weak to Ground as well as opposing Ice-types, most notably Escavalier, Cryogonal, and Rotom-F, all of which can beat Glaceon otherwise. However, Glaceon with Hidden Power Fire has no means of beating Lanturn. The final move is mostly filler, but each option does have a few niche uses. Frost Breath is used for beating defensive boosters, such as Cosmic Power Sigilyph and Calm Mind Clefable, even after they've set up; it also gives Glaceon a backup STAB, in case Blizzard runs out of PP. Baton Pass seems strange on a Choice set, but can be used if you suspect your opponent will switch so that you keep up your momentum.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>The EVs on this set are fairly self-explanatory; the extra point in HP gives Glaceon an ideal Ice Body number while also granting it an extra switch into Stealth Rock if it takes no other damage, while max Speed allows for a Speed tie with Adamant Emboar. However, this assumes you are running Hidden Power Ground, which does not reduce Glaceon's Speed. If you are using Fire as your Hidden Power type, it is recommended to run a spread of 72 HP / 252 SpA / 184 Spe to account for the 30 Speed IV; this maintains the same effect with Glaceon's HP while allowing it to outspeed standard Qwilfish and standard bulky Gallade by one point, as well as Adamant Crawdaunt and Bouffalant. A Timid nature is an option, but using it requires giving up a lot of power and only allows Glaceon to gain ground on three relevant threats: Emboar, Absol, and Nidoqueen, the latter of which Glaceon only manages to Speed tie with, and only with Hidden Power Ground. Glaceon rarely needs the ability to switch moves as Blizzard is so powerful, but if you really hate the idea of being locked into one move, Icicle Plate is a possible alternative to bluff Choice Specs and surprise switch-ins, though the loss in power is rarely worth it. Life Orb is another option; you lose the ability to bluff a Choice Specs, but can still throw opponents off-guard when they switch Slowking or Lanturn into Blizzard, as they then have to decide to predict the incoming Shadow Ball or Hidden Power Ground, you switching out, or another possible Blizzard if they decide to switch out.
    </p>

    <p>Besides the obvious Snover, there are several teammates that can really improve Glaceon's performance. Glaceon really appreciates having support from entry hazards, as they greatly improve its ability to kill things and work very well with its ability to force switches. Uxie is one of the best choices for setting these up, as it not only offers Stealth Rock support but also spreads paralysis, a condition extremely beneficial to the otherwise slow Glaceon. It also offers support in the form of Heal Bell and resists Glaceon's Fighting-type weakness. Another excellent teammate is Kabutops, as on top of its 4x resistance to Fire, it can spin away the Stealth Rock that otherwise reduces Glaceon's longevity. Cryogonal is an alternative for Rapid Spin support that deals with special attackers better and has no fear of hail, but note that it compounds Glaceon's weaknesses as it shares the same typing.</p>

    [SET]
    name: SubProtect
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Protect
    move 3: Blizzard
    move 4: Hidden Power Ground / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Ice Body
    nature: Modest
    evs: 208 HP / 44 Def / 252 SpA / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>While the Choice Specs set aims to outright destroy the opposition, this set takes a more subtle and prolonged approach. The threat of Glaceon's enormously powerful Blizzards forces a lot of switches, which this set uses to set up a Substitute
    &mdash;and, from there, takes advantage of the combined recovery from Leftovers and Ice Body, which needs only one turn after using Substitute to fully pay its cost. Because this turn is very easily bought with Protect, Glaceon can comfortably stall for 32 turns straight while the opponent can do very little about it, and with Toxic Spikes and other entry hazard support, Glaceon can easily stall an entire team to death.</p>

    <p>While Walrein can do the same thing with more bulk and a generally better typing, Glaceon can use its powerful Blizzard
    &mdash;and the threat of Choice Specs&mdash;to take the set in a more offensive direction. Though not as powerful without Choice Specs, Glaceon still has plenty of power, enough to easily beat common users of Taunt that would wreck Walrein. Taunt users such as Drapion and Qwilfish are easily 2HKOed by Blizzard despite the latter's Ice resistance, not to mention that other common grounded Poison-types, such as Nidoqueen and Amoonguss, are effortlessly OHKOed. In the fourth slot, Hidden Power Ground deals with Lanturn and Steel-types very well, while Toxic prevents Cryogonal and Rotom-F from walling this set.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>The HP EVs ensure that recovery from both Leftovers and Ice Body is exactly enough to pay the cost of Substitute, allowing Glaceon to stall until it runs out of PP. 4 Speed is enough to beat minimum Speed Sandslash and Roselia, max Special Attack is used to power up Blizzard, and the rest are placed in Defense, which ensures Choice Band Cinccino needs two hits with Rock Blast to break a Substitute and also makes it harder for defensive Pokemon such as Qwilfish to break a Substitute. Alternatively, an EV spread of 8 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe with a Timid nature is very viable for this set, as it makes this Glaceon better at bluffing the Choice Specs set, ensures it can beat Absol, and gives it a chance of beating Nidoqueen without a Substitute. It should be noted that Vanilluxe can also run this set, being faster but less powerful, and so should be considered over Glaceon if you want your Glaceon to take this route.</p>

    <p>Snover is a required teammate for this set, because without Ice Body healing this Glaceon has no way at all of working. This Glaceon also benefits enormously from Toxic Spikes support, as well as other entry hazards. Qwilfish therefore makes a great partner, as not only does it resist three of Glaceon's four weaknesses, but it sets Toxic Spikes, has the option of setting Spikes as well, and removes the opponent's Toxic Spikes upon entry. Cryogonal also works well as a partner, removing not only Toxic Spikes but other entry hazards, and helps to stop special attackers as well; if you don't like the idea of compounding Glaceon's weaknesses, Kabutops can be used instead. Finally, Walrein can partner well with this set; while using two of the same set might be counterintuitive, the subtle differences in how they play can prove very significant, and having twice the PP for Substitute and Protect makes it even harder to break.</p>

    [Other Options]
    <p>Given Glaceon's shallow movepool, it doesn't have too many other options. A Choice Scarf set is perhaps the most notable; while it looks quite viable at first glance and is capable of beating would-be checks like Cinccino and Sceptile, it requires a Timid nature to even outspeed Galvantula which results in a relative lack of power, and in general Rotom-F outclasses it pretty badly. Wish and Heal Bell are interesting team support options, but SubProtect has four moveslot syndrome as it is, whereas Choice Specs would need to switch out after using these moves. Fake Tears can see some use on an Icicle Plate variant of the Choice Specs set to force switches, beat more defensive teams easier, and make up for the lack of Choice Specs's power, but this requires a lot of prediction to use well. Roar is an option for SubProtect, but this is generally better done by Walrein.</p>

    <p>It should be noted that because Snow Cloak is banned, Glaceon cannot legally use any of its moves that are illegal with Ice Body. This isn't really a big loss, as the only even remotely viable move lost in this way is Water Pulse, and Snow Cloak is inferior to Ice Body even on the Choice Specs set as it prevents bluffing the possibility of the SubProtect set. Also of note is that a super effective Water Pulse would be weaker than a neutral Blizzard; for similar reasons, Signal Beam is not recommended despite its legality.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]
    <p>In general, the best way to deal with the Choice Specs set is revenge killing it; unless you have one of the few Pokemon that can switch into it safely, it's easier to simply take advantage of its low Speed to at least force it out. Do note, though, that Glaceon can be surprisingly bulky, and rarely has qualms about taking advantage of a hit that isn't strong enough to KO the would-be revenge killer. Dealing with the SubProtect set can be trickier; phazing it or Encoring it are your best bets. While Taunt can work with some prediction, Glaceon is fairly likely to just use Blizzard the turn you use the move. If you have a weather move other than Hail, using it can swiftly neuter Glaceon regardless of the set and usually much of its team as well, though make sure to KO Snover first.</p>

    <p>If you want something that can beat Glaceon regardless of the set, there are a few viable options. Specially defensive Hariyama with Thick Fat isn't 2HKOed by Choice Specs Blizzard and can either hit Glaceon super effectively or phaze it away with Whirlwind. Poliwrath and Regice also avoid the 2HKO and, with Rest, have no fear of Toxic Spikes or Toxic itself from the SubProtect set. Escavalier can also work well if it has Overcoat, though note that it needs significant investment in Special Defense to not be 2HKOed by Choice Specs Blizzard and fears Hidden Power Fire. Rotom-F also fears Hidden Power Fire but takes little damage from Glaceon's other movesand can scout with Volt Switch. Cryogonal can take a Blizzard and Recover off the damage, though it can do little to threaten Glaceon in return and will usually lose to Choice Specs Glaceon with Hidden Power Fire or SubProtect Glaceon with Toxic. Slowking can comfortably take a Blizzard, but needs to watch out for Choice Specs Shadow Ball and fears Toxic. Lanturn can Heal Bell away Toxic, but needs to watch for Hidden Power Ground. If all else fails, Munchlax is a nearly perfect counter, but considering how little utility it has elsewhere, don't use it unless you're really desperate for an answer to Glaceon.</p>


    Done and ready for uploading.
  2. Oglemi

    Oglemi I ask consent before I thrash anuses.
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    I would either slash Frost Breath over Ice Beam or at the very least mention it in AC. The only time you're going to be using it is when you run out of Blizzard PP (even if you lose hail I'd still go for Blizzard let's be honest). Frost Breath at least ensures you can't get outstalled by stupid stuff like CM Clefable, SubCM Uxie, or hell even Cosmic Power Sigi. And with the critical hit the power comes out to be roughly the same iirc.

    Also be sure to mention Icicle Plate and Life Orb in AC of the Choice Specs set. It's not like being able to switch moves is that valuable considering most of the time you're just going to blast stuff with Blizzard, but it can really throw some people through a loop when they switch in Lanturn on Blizzard and get nailed by HP Ground the next turn (same for Slowking and Shadow Ball).

    The SubProtect set (which is what the set name should be) needs to mention a flat 252 SpA / 252 Spe Timid EV spread mention in AC. If you're going for this spread Vanilluxe is usually the better choice, but you can at least feign a Choice Specs and force something out to set up a Substitute. Not to mention you at least have a chance to beat Nidoqueen with a fast spread.

    Be sure to mention in OO that Snow Cloak is banned, and therefore so is Water Pulse by extension (can't get it on Ice Body Glaceon afaik).

    Enemy Rotom-F would like a mention in Checks and Counters too as it threatens Glaceon offensively more so than Cryogonal really does even though it takes more from Blizzard.
  3. Molk

    Molk mfw houndoom might drop
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    Just a small nitpick, you would actually need 8 hp, 248 Spa, and 252 speed to get an optimal Ice Body number, otherwise i agree with all of these changes
  4. Malkyrian

    Malkyrian

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    Changes made:

    -Rotom-F has been given more of a mention throughout
    -Somewhat condensed in a few areas to reduce wordiness
    -Frost Breath is now the primary slash in move 4 of Specs
    -Icicle Plate has been mentioned as an alternative (I left out Life Orb because you can't bluff Specs with it)
    -Uxie has been mentioned as a teammate
    -Second set has been renamed to SubProtect (I really liked Stallceon but I can see it not being good for an analysis =/)
    -Mention of fast spread as an alternative for SubProtect
    -Removed Klinklang as a check (I forgot to include damage from hail when I calced that, derp)

    Thanks for the fixes Oglemi and Molk.

    EDIT: Also added a mention of Snow Cloak being banned to OO (did that earlier but forgot to list it here).
  5. Oglemi

    Oglemi I ask consent before I thrash anuses.
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    Be sure to change the EV spread on the Specs set to 8 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe, otherwise I'm happy with this

    [qc]1/3[/qc]
  6. Molk

    Molk mfw houndoom might drop
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    QC approved 2/3


    make sure to give the fast spread a pretty big mention in AC, its my favorite set and the speed helps against a lot of things like absol, who glaceon can outright beat if it is running this spread.

    Also, i'd rather have hp ground slashed first but w/e
  7. Malkyrian

    Malkyrian

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    Thanks for the approvals.

    - Emboar has been given a mention as a reason for max Speed on the Specs set
    - Changed EVs on the Specs set to 8 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe (though really on the Specs set it's more for Stealth Rock than it is for Ice Body)
    - Expanded mention of fast Timid SubProtect

    I'm very ambivalent about putting HP Ground first on SubProtect, I could really go either way on that at this point. For the time being I've left it as it is, though.
  8. Hot N Cold

    Hot N Cold PLUTO
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    Add in OO Fake Tears, can help to deal better with the most dangerous threats for Glaceon (bulky waters & resttalkers mainly) but needs a good luck with the sleep talk or just a good prediction.

    Add in Checks & Counters, fast Sunny Day users like Entei, which in addition are more utility in the battle not only checking Glaceon, help too nullifying Hail.

    Also, Hidden Power Ground first and then Toxic on the SubProtect set.

    When this is ready.

    [​IMG]

    QC Approved 3/3
  9. Malkyrian

    Malkyrian

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    That's done, thanks for the check!

    Still working on the writeup for this, it might take me a while.
  10. Malkyrian

    Malkyrian

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    Writeup is done.

    Ready for GP checks.
  11. Oglemi

    Oglemi I ask consent before I thrash anuses.
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Administratoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
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    a few quick things before this gets GP checked:

    - Replace the curly apostrophes and quotation marks with the ASCII standard ' and "

    - Use &mdash; when you want to use an em dash (and not just - )

    - Super effective isn't hyphenated.

    - Be sure to spell out Base Power, etc.

    It looks good from a glance, just doing this beforehand will make my life easier lol
  12. Malkyrian

    Malkyrian

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    Did all of that, as far as I can see.

    I also moved the second paragraph of the first set to AC; I think the first paragraph is good for a brief summary, and I want to make it at least a little less tl;dr for casual readers. I'd be willing to move it back if GP feels differently, though.
  13. Oglemi

    Oglemi I ask consent before I thrash anuses.
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    [Overview]

    <p>Glaceon is one of the dominant forces of hail in RU, with a Blizzard so enormously powerful it 2HKOes everything in RU that doesn't resist it&mdash;and that's assuming no entry hazards. It's surprisingly bulky, too&mdash;short of hitting it super effectively, not many attackers are able to OHKO Glaceon before it wipes them out. Glaceon can even use hail to stall, in one of the most annoying sets any hail team has to offer.</p>

    <p>However, Glaceon certainly isn't without its flaws. Its base 65 Speed is quite slow, and it has no way of boosting it speed. Its Ice typing is a double-edged sword, giving it nasty weaknesses that compromise its otherwise great bulk. Its movepool is very small, making it rather predictable once you know which set it's running. Finally, it requires use of the weak Snover as a teammate to provide the hail that makes it viable. If you can see past these flaws, though, Glaceon will rarely disappoint you.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Blizzard
    move 2: Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Fire
    move 3: Shadow Ball
    move 4: Frost Breath / Baton Pass
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Ice Body
    nature: Modest
    evs: 8 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Given that Glaceon has the highest Special Attack of any Pokemon legal in RU play, it is no surprise that it can run a viable Choice Specs set. Blizzard is the key to this set; with STAB, Choice Specs, and hail, it becomes a perfect-accuracy move with 180 Base Power from an effective Special Attack of almost 590. Even resists need be afraid; for example, standard Crawdaunt is always OHKOed by Blizzard even without any entry hazards, after factoring in hail damage. Being generally bulky isn't enough to save Glaceon's hapless victims either, as even max HP Spiritomb is effortlessly OHKOed, again with only hail damage for support. If your opponent lacks a healthy team member that has both special bulk and an Ice resist, simply select Blizzard; it is almost certain they'll be losing a Pokemon.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Shadow Ball is used entirely for Slowking, but is still the most viable coverage move in Glaceon's shallow movepool. Ground is the preferred Hidden Power type, beating Pokemon that can take a Blizzard after Stealth Rock and hail damage such as Emboar, Lanturn, and Kabutops. Hidden Power Fire is a viable alternative, as it is Glaceon's best weapon against Steel-types that aren't weak to Ground as well as opposing Ice-types, most notably Escavalier, Cryogonal, and Rotom-F, all of which can beat Glaceon otherwise. However, Glaceon with Hidden Power Fire has no means of beating Lanturn. The final move is mostly filler, but does have a few niche uses. Frost Breath is used for beating defensive boosters, such as Cosmic Power Sigilyph and Calm Mind Clefable, even after they've set up; it also gives Glaceon a backup STAB, in case Blizzard runs out of PP. Baton Pass seems strange on a Choice set, but can be used if you suspect your opponent will switch so that you keep momentum.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs on this set are fairly self-explanatory; the extra point in HP gives Glaceon an ideal Ice Body number while also granting it an extra switch into Stealth Rock, while max Speed allows for a Speed tie with Adamant Emboar. However, this assumes you are running Hidden Power Ground, which does not reduce your Speed. If you are using Fire as your Hidden Power type, it is recommended to run a spread of 72 HP / 252 SpA / 184 Spe to account for the 30 Speed IV; this maintains the same effect with Glaceon's HP while allowing it to outspeed standard Qwilfish and standard bulky Gallade by one point, as well as Adamant Crawdaunt and Bouffalant. A Timid nature is an option, but it gives up a lot of power and only gains ground on three relevant threats: Emboar, Absol, and Nidoqueen, the latter of which Glaceon only manages to Speed tie with, and only with Hidden Power Ground. Glaceon rarely needs the ability to switch moves since Blizzard is so powerful, but if you really hate the idea of being locked into one move, Icicle Plate is a possible alternative to bluff Choice Specs and surprise switch-ins, though the loss in power is rarely worth it. Life Orb is another option; you lose the ability to bluff a Choice Specs, but it can still throw your opponent off-guard after switching Slowking or Lanturn into Blizzard, as they then have to decide to predict the incoming Shadow Ball or Hidden Power Ground, you switching out, or another possible Blizzard if they decide to switch out.</p>

    <p>Besides the obvious Snover, there are several teammates that can really improve Glaceon's performance. Glaceon really appreciates having support from entry hazards, as they greatly improve its ability to kill things and work very well with its ability to force switches. Uxie is one of the best choices for this, as it not only offers Stealth Rock support but also spreads paralysis, a condition extremely beneficial to the otherwise slow Glaceon. It also offers support in the form of Heal Bell, and resists Glaceon's Fighting weakness. Another excellent teammate is Kabutops, since on top of its 4X resistance to Fire, it can spin away the Stealth Rock that otherwise reduces Glaceon's longevity. Cryogonal is an alternative for Rapid Spin support that deals better with special attackers and has no fear of hail, but note that it compounds Glaceon's weaknesses since it shares the same typing.</p>

    [SET]
    name: SubProtect
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Protect
    move 3: Blizzard
    move 4: Hidden Power Ground / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Ice Body
    nature: Modest
    evs: 208 HP / 44 Def / 252 SpA / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While the Choice Specs set aims to outright destroy the opposition, this set takes a more subtle and prolonged approach. The threat of Glaceon's enormously powerful Blizzards forces a lot of switches, which this set uses to set up a Substitute&mdash;and, from there, takes advantage of the combined recovery from Leftovers and Ice Body, which needs only one turn after using Substitute to fully pay its cost. Since this turn is very easily bought with Protect, Glaceon can stall for 32 turns straight while the opponent can do very little about it, and with Toxic Spikes and other entry hazard support, Glaceon can easily stall an entire team to death.</p>

    <p>While Walrein can do the same thing with more bulk and a generally better typing, Glaceon can use its powerful Blizzard&mdash;and the threat of Choice Specs&mdash;to take the set in a more offensive direction. Though not as powerful without Choice Specs, it still has plenty of power, enough to easily beat common users of Taunt that would wreck Walrein. Taunt users such as Drapion and Qwilfish are easily 2HKOed by Blizzard despite the latter's Ice resistance, not to mention that other common grounded Poison-types, such as Nidoqueen and Amoonguss, are effortlessly OHKOed. In the fourth slot, Hidden Power Ground deals very well with Lanturn and Steel-types, while Toxic prevents Cryogonal and Rotom-F from walling this set.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The HP EVs ensure that recovery from both Leftovers and Ice Body is exactly enough to pay the cost of Substitute, allowing Glaceon to stall indefinitely. 4 Speed is enough to beat minimum Speed Sandslash and Roselia, max Special Attack is used to power up Blizzard, and the rest are placed in Defense, which forces Choice Band Cinccino to use 2 hits of Rock Blast to break a Substitute and also makes it harder for defensive Pokemon such as Qwilfish to break a Substitute. However, an alternate Alternatively, an EV spread of 8 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe with a Timid nature is very viable for this set, as it makes this Glaceon better at bluffing the Choice Specs set, ensures it can beat Absol, and gives it a chance of beating Nidoqueen without a Substitute. It should be noted that Vanilluxe is faster but less powerful, and so should be considered over Glaceon if you want your Glaceon to take this route.</p>

    <p>Snover is a required teammate for this set, even more than the last set, because without Ice Body healing this Glaceon has no way at all of working. This Glaceon also benefits enormously from Toxic Spikes support, as well as other entry hazards. Qwilfish therefore makes a great partner, as not only does it resist three of Glaceon's four weaknesses, it sets Toxic Spikes, has the option of setting Spikes as well, and removes the opponent's Toxic Spikes upon entry. Cryogonal also works well as a partner, removing not only Toxic Spikes but other entry hazards, and helps to stop special attackers as well; if you don't like the idea of compounding Glaceon's weaknesses, Kabutops can be used instead. Finally, Walrein can partner well with this set; while using two of the same set may be counterintuitive, the subtle differences in how they play can prove very significant, and having twice the PP for Substitute and Protect makes it even harder to break.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Given Glaceon's shallow movepool, it doesn't have too many other options. A Choice Scarf set is perhaps the most notable; while it looks quite viable at first glance, and is capable of beating would-be checks like Cinccino and Sceptile, it requires a Timid nature to even outspeed Galvantula which results in a relative lack of power, and in general Rotom-F outclasses it pretty badly. Wish and Heal Bell are interesting team support options, but SubProtect has four moveslot syndrome as it is, whereas Specs would need to switch out after using these moves. Fake Tears can see some use in an Icicle Plate variant of the Specs set to force switches, beat more defensive teams easier, and make up for the lack of Specs' power, but this requires a lot of prediction to use well. Roar is an option for SubProtect, but this is generally better done by Walrein.</p>

    <p>It should be noted that since Snow Cloak is banned, Glaceon cannot legally use any of its moves that are illegal with Ice Body. This isn't really a big loss, since the only even remotely viable move lost in this way is Water Pulse, and Snow Cloak is inferior to Ice Body even on the Specs set since it cannot bluff the possibility of the SubProtect set. Also of note is that a super effective Water Pulse would be weaker than a neutral Blizzard; for similar reasons, Signal Beam is not recommended despite its legality.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>In general, the best way to deal with the Choice Specs set is revenge killing it; unless you have one of the few Pokemon that can switch into it safely, it's easier to simply take advantage of its low Speed to at least force it out. Do note, though, that Glaceon can be surprisingly bulky, and rarely has qualms about taking advantage of a hit that isn't strong enough to KO the would-be revenge killer. Dealing with the SubProtect set can be trickier; phazing it or Encoring it are your best bets. While Taunt can work with some prediction, it's fairly likely to just Blizzard you instead. If you have a weather move other than Hail, using it can swiftly neuter Glaceon regardless of the set and usually much of its team as well, though make sure to KO Snover first.</p>

    <p>If you want something that can beat Glaceon regardless of the set, there are a few viable options. Specially defensive Hariyama with Thick Fat isn't 2HKOed by Specs Blizzard, and can either hit Glaceon super effectively or phaze it away with Whirlwind. Poliwrath and Regice also avoid the 2HKO, and with Rest, have no fear of Toxic Spikes or Toxic itself from the SubProtect set. Escavalier can also work well if it has Overcoat, though note that it needs significant investment in Special Defense to not be 2HKOed by Specs Blizzard and fears Hidden Power Fire. Rotom-F also fears Hidden Power Fire but takes little damage from Glaceon's other moves, and can scout with Volt Switch. Cryogonal can take a Blizzard and Recover off the damage, though it can do little to threaten Glaceon in return, and will usually lose to Specs Glaceon with Hidden Power Fire, or SubProtect Glaceon with Toxic. Slowking can comfortably take a Blizzard, but needs to watch out for Specs Shadow Ball, and fears Toxic. Lanturn can Heal Bell away Toxic, but needs to watch for Hidden Power Ground. If all else fails, Munchlax is a nearly perfect counter, but considering how little utility it has elsewhere, don't use it unless you're really desperate for an answer to Glaceon.</p>


    [gp]1/2[/gp]
  14. Malkyrian

    Malkyrian

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    362
    Thanks for the check. Did all of that.

    Just need one more and this is done.
  15. melvni

    melvni
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
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    GP check number two incoming. Good job on writing this.
    Additions in Blue
    Subtractions in Red
    Comments in Purple

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    [Overview]
    <p>Glaceon is one of the dominant forces of hail in RU, with a Blizzard so enormously powerful it 2HKOes everything in RU that doesn't resist it
    &mdash;and that's assuming no entry hazards. It's surprisingly bulky, too&mdash;short of hitting it super effectively, not many attackers are able to OHKO Glaceon before it wipes them out. Glaceon can even use hail to stall, in one of the most annoying sets any hail team has hail teams have to offer.</p>

    <p>However, Glaceon certainly isn't without its flaws. Its base 65 Speed is quite slow low, and it has no way of boosting it. Its Ice typing is a double-edged sword, giving it nasty weaknesses that compromise its otherwise great bulk. Its movepool is very small, making it rather predictable once you know which set it's running. Finally, it requires use of the weak Snover as a teammate to provide the hail that makes it viable. If you can see past get around these flaws, though, Glaceon will rarely disappoint you.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Blizzard
    move 2: Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Fire
    move 3: Shadow Ball
    move 4: Frost Breath / Baton Pass
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Ice Body
    nature: Modest
    evs: 8 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Given that Glaceon has the highest Special Attack of any Pokemon legal in RU play, it is no surprise that it can run a viable Choice Specs set. Blizzard is the key to this set; with STAB, Choice Specs, and hail backing it up/supporting it/boosting it/something you prefer, it becomes a perfect-accuracy move with 180 Base Power from an effective Special Attack of almost 590. Even resists many Pokemon that resist the move need be afraid; for example, standard Crawdaunt is always OHKOed by Blizzard even without any entry hazards, (remove comma) after factoring in hail damage. Being generally bulky isn't enough to save Glaceon's hapless victims either, as even max HP Spiritomb is effortlessly OHKOed, again with only hail damage for support. If your opponent lacks Whenever your opponents lack a healthy team member that has both special bulk and an Ice resist resistance, simply select Blizzard; it is almost certain they'll be losing a Pokemon.</p>

    <p>Shadow Ball is used entirely for Slowking, but is still the most viable coverage move in Glaceon's shallow movepool. Ground is the preferred Hidden Power type, beating Pokemon that can take a Blizzard after Stealth Rock and hail damage such as Emboar, Lanturn, and Kabutops. Hidden Power Fire is a viable alternative, as it is Glaceon's best weapon against Steel-types that aren't weak to Ground as well as opposing Ice-types, most notably Escavalier, Cryogonal, and Rotom-F, all of which can beat Glaceon otherwise. However, Glaceon with Hidden Power Fire has no means of beating Lanturn. The final move is mostly filler, but each option does have a few niche uses. Frost Breath is used for beating defensive boosters, such as Cosmic Power Sigilyph and Calm Mind Clefable, even after they've set up; it also gives Glaceon a backup STAB, in case Blizzard runs out of PP. Baton Pass seems strange on a Choice set, but can be used if you suspect your opponent will switch so that you keep up your momentum.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>The EVs on this set are fairly self-explanatory; the extra point in HP gives Glaceon an ideal Ice Body number while also granting it an extra switch into Stealth Rock if it takes no other damage, while max Speed allows for a Speed tie with Adamant Emboar. However, this assumes you are running Hidden Power Ground, which does not reduce your Glaceon's Speed. If you are using Fire as your Hidden Power type, it is recommended to run a spread of 72 HP / 252 SpA / 184 Spe to account for the 30 Speed IV; this maintains the same effect with Glaceon's HP while allowing it to outspeed standard Qwilfish and standard bulky Gallade by one point, as well as Adamant Crawdaunt and Bouffalant. A Timid nature is an option, but it gives using it requires giving up a lot of power and only gains allows Glaceon to gain ground on three relevant threats: Emboar, Absol, and Nidoqueen, the latter of which Glaceon only manages to Speed tie with, and only with Hidden Power Ground. Glaceon rarely needs the ability to switch moves since as Blizzard is so powerful, but if you really hate the idea of being locked into one move, Icicle Plate is a possible alternative to bluff Choice Specs and surprise switch-ins, though the loss in power is rarely worth it. Life Orb is another option; you lose the ability to bluff a Choice Specs, but it can still throw your opponent opponents off-guard after switching when they switch Slowking or Lanturn into Blizzard, as they then have to decide to predict the incoming Shadow Ball or Hidden Power Ground, you switching out, or another possible Blizzard if they decide to switch out.
    </p>

    <p>Besides the obvious Snover, there are several teammates that can really improve Glaceon's performance. Glaceon really appreciates having support from entry hazards, as they greatly improve its ability to kill things and work very well with its ability to force switches. Uxie is one of the best choices for this setting these up, as it not only offers Stealth Rock support but also spreads paralysis, a condition extremely beneficial to the otherwise slow Glaceon. It also offers support in the form of Heal Bell, (remove comma) and resists Glaceon's Fighting-type weakness. Another excellent teammate is Kabutops, since as on top of its 4X 4x resistance to Fire, it can spin away the Stealth Rock that otherwise reduces Glaceon's longevity. Cryogonal is an alternative for Rapid Spin support that deals better with special attackers better and has no fear of hail, but note that it compounds Glaceon's weaknesses since as it shares the same typing.</p>

    [SET]
    name: SubProtect
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Protect
    move 3: Blizzard
    move 4: Hidden Power Ground / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Ice Body
    nature: Modest
    evs: 208 HP / 44 Def / 252 SpA / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>While the Choice Specs set aims to outright destroy the opposition, this set takes a more subtle and prolonged approach. The threat of Glaceon's enormously powerful Blizzards forces a lot of switches, which this set uses to set up a Substitute
    &mdash;and, from there, takes advantage of the combined recovery from Leftovers and Ice Body, which needs only one turn after using Substitute to fully pay its cost. Since Because this turn is very easily bought with Protect, Glaceon can comfortably stall for 32 turns straight while the opponent can do very little about it, and with Toxic Spikes and other entry hazard support, Glaceon can easily stall an entire team to death.</p>

    <p>While Walrein can do the same thing with more bulk and a generally better typing, Glaceon can use its powerful Blizzard
    &mdash;and the threat of Choice Specs&mdash;to take the set in a more offensive direction. Though not as powerful without Choice Specs, it Glaceon still has plenty of power, enough to easily beat common users of Taunt that would wreck Walrein. Taunt users such as Drapion and Qwilfish are easily 2HKOed by Blizzard despite the latter's Ice resistance, not to mention that other common grounded Poison-types, such as Nidoqueen and Amoonguss, are effortlessly OHKOed. In the fourth slot, Hidden Power Ground deals very well with Lanturn and Steel-types very well, while Toxic prevents Cryogonal and Rotom-F from walling this set.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>The HP EVs ensure that recovery from both Leftovers and Ice Body is exactly enough to pay the cost of Substitute, allowing Glaceon to stall indefinitely until it runs out of PP. 4 Speed is enough to beat minimum Speed Sandslash and Roselia, max Special Attack is used to power up Blizzard, and the rest are placed in Defense, which forces ensures Choice Band Cinccino to use 2 hits of needs two hits with Rock Blast to break a Substitute and also makes it harder for defensive Pokemon such as Qwilfish to break a Substitute. Alternatively, an EV spread of 8 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe with a Timid nature is very viable for this set, as it makes this Glaceon better at bluffing the Choice Specs set, ensures it can beat Absol, and gives it a chance of beating Nidoqueen without a Substitute. It should be noted that Vanilluxe is can also run this set, being faster but less powerful, and so should be considered over Glaceon if you want your Glaceon to take this route.</p>

    <p>Snover is a required teammate for this set, because without Ice Body healing this Glaceon has no way at all of working. This Glaceon also benefits enormously from Toxic Spikes support, as well as other entry hazards. Qwilfish therefore makes a great partner, as not only does it resist three of Glaceon's four weaknesses, but it sets Toxic Spikes, has the option of setting Spikes as well, and removes the opponent's Toxic Spikes upon entry. Cryogonal also works well as a partner, removing not only Toxic Spikes but other entry hazards, and helps to stop special attackers as well; if you don't like the idea of compounding Glaceon's weaknesses, Kabutops can be used instead. (just curious (not saying you have to change it if you don't want to) but is there a reason why the order of Rapid Spin users is Cryogonal->Kabutops here when it was Kabutops->Cryogonal when you were talking about the Choice Specs set?) Finally, Walrein can partner well with this set; while using two of the same set may might be counterintuitive, the subtle differences in how they play can prove very significant, and having twice the PP for Substitute and Protect makes it even harder to break.</p>

    [Other Options]
    <p>Given Glaceon's shallow movepool, it doesn't have too many other options. A Choice Scarf set is perhaps the most notable; while it looks quite viable at first glance, (remove comma) and is capable of beating would-be checks like Cinccino and Sceptile, it requires a Timid nature to even outspeed Galvantula which results in a relative lack of power, and in general Rotom-F outclasses it pretty badly. Wish and Heal Bell are interesting team support options, but SubProtect has four moveslot syndrome as it is, whereas Choice Specs would need to switch out after using these moves. Fake Tears can see some use in on an Icicle Plate variant of the Choice Specs set to force switches, beat more defensive teams easier, and make up for the lack of Specs' Choice Specs's power, but this requires a lot of prediction to use well. Roar is an option for SubProtect, but this is generally better done by Walrein.</p>

    <p>It should be noted that since because Snow Cloak is banned, Glaceon cannot legally use any of its moves that are illegal with Ice Body. This isn't really a big loss, since as the only even remotely viable move lost in this way is Water Pulse, and Snow Cloak is inferior to Ice Body even on the Choice Specs set since it cannot bluff as it prevents bluffing the possibility of the SubProtect set. Also of note is that a super effective Water Pulse would be weaker than a neutral Blizzard; for similar reasons, Signal Beam is not recommended despite its legality.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]
    <p>In general, the best way to deal with the Choice Specs set is revenge killing it; unless you have one of the few Pokemon that can switch into it safely, it's easier to simply take advantage of its low Speed to at least force it out. Do note, though, that Glaceon can be surprisingly bulky, and rarely has qualms about taking advantage of a hit that isn't strong enough to KO the would-be revenge killer. Dealing with the SubProtect set can be trickier; phazing it or Encoring it are your best bets. While Taunt can work with some prediction, it's fairly likely to just Blizzard you instead Glaceon is fairly likely to just use Blizzard the turn you use the move. If you have a weather move other than Hail, using it can swiftly neuter Glaceon regardless of the set and usually much of its team as well, though make sure to KO Snover first.</p>

    <p>If you want something that can beat Glaceon regardless of the set, there are a few viable options. Specially defensive Hariyama with Thick Fat isn't 2HKOed by Choice Specs Blizzard, (remove comma) and can either hit Glaceon super effectively or phaze it away with Whirlwind. Poliwrath and Regice also avoid the 2HKO, (remove comma) and (add comma) with Rest, have no fear of Toxic Spikes or Toxic itself from the SubProtect set. Escavalier can also work well if it has Overcoat, though note that it needs significant investment in Special Defense to not be 2HKOed by Choice Specs Blizzard and fears Hidden Power Fire. Rotom-F also fears Hidden Power Fire but takes little damage from Glaceon's other moves, (remove comma) and can scout with Volt Switch. Cryogonal can take a Blizzard and Recover off the damage, though it can do little to threaten Glaceon in return, (remove comma) and will usually lose to Choice Specs Glaceon with Hidden Power Fire, (remove comma) or SubProtect Glaceon with Toxic. Slowking can comfortably take a Blizzard, but needs to watch out for Choice Specs Shadow Ball, (remove comma) and fears Toxic. Lanturn can Heal Bell away Toxic, but needs to watch for Hidden Power Ground. If all else fails, Munchlax is a nearly perfect counter, but considering how little utility it has elsewhere, don't use it unless you're really desperate for an answer to Glaceon.</p>


    [gp]2/2[/gp]
  16. Malkyrian

    Malkyrian

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    362
    Thanks for the check. Implemented that, which means this should now be done.

    My reasoning for that was that I thought Qwilfish paired better with Cryogonal than Kabutops, and since Qwilfish is the first recommended partner in the second set, I thought it made more sense to list Cryogonal first there.

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