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Glaceon
- Thread starter KurashiDragon
- Start date
QFT.... Glaceon may have better defensive stats on the surface, but Kyurem is one bulky turkey. I guess you could use Glaceon on a trick room team though.
Glaceon has just enough moves to warrant a choice specs/scarf set:
Glaceon @ Choice specs/ Scarf *** Snowball
Modest/Timid, 252 sp.atk, 252 speed
-Blizzard
-shadow ball
-HP Fighting
-ice beam
Blizzard under hail or if you're feeling lucky. Hp fighting and shadow ball have perfect neutral coverage, and ice beam for safe STAB.
Glaceon @ Choice specs/ Scarf *** Snowball
Modest/Timid, 252 sp.atk, 252 speed
-Blizzard
-shadow ball
-HP Fighting
-ice beam
Blizzard under hail or if you're feeling lucky. Hp fighting and shadow ball have perfect neutral coverage, and ice beam for safe STAB.
Why wouldn't you use Kyurem over Glaceon? Sadly the only things Glaceon really has are it's abilities (which definitely are better than Pressure for Kyurem and both are annoying in Hail), Baton Pass, and Wish. If you're using more of an attacker like Choice Scarf or Specs use Kyurem, otherwise Glaceon's slower and is only equally bulky to offensive variants of Kyurem (since Glaceon is investing max hp) and should there be any investment, Kyurem has much better surviveability. Glaceon really serves no purpose with Kyurem unless you're dualing up on Ice Types...which is not always recommended considering common types (Fire/Water/Steel/Ice etc that resist). Dragon/Ice hits more and has Focus Blast and even amazingly Kyurem has a bigger offensive movepool than Glaceon and can attack both sides (although unless it gets Ice Shard which would have been amazing, the only common physical it gets is Outrage).
Kyurem also is the ultimate lure for things like Scizor and steels you want gone and can crack Blissey unlike Glaceon with Outrage (if you use it). And it sets up Screens that prevent Bullet Punch/Mach Punch from potentially 2 hit koing you, some even with Stealth Rock (Kyurem is a defensive behemoth that hits insanely hard. With Wish support, he can be insanely hard to kill. And thinking about it, Stealth Rock is a meh excuse for it to not be used since Rayquaza/Reshiram/Ho-Oh are weak to Stealth Rock and ARE Uber. And it doesn't really kill Ulgamoth most of the time. Admittedly, they have better movepools/can't be switched in on safely but Kyurem does hit all types but steel and even a lot of steels very hard with Focus Blast or Choice boosted Blizzards which 2 hit ko the lower special defensive steels like Scizor/Metagross as well as Nattorei because of neutrality). With defenses (417/256 Def Reflect, it survives 2 hits from Choice Band Scizor Bullet Punch, even with Stealth Rock, as long as it has Leftovers Recovery going on), Kyurem just seems better.
But Glaceon just looks adorable and some people think Kyurem is ugly (can't imagine why, it's an awesome Ice/Dragon!)
The only things I can imagine that Glaceon can do better than Kyurem are Snow Cloak (could be haxxy with those Blizzards pounding everything into the dirt like Kyurem and turn the thing around) as well as Ice Body although I still think Walrein is likely to pull that set off better because of Steel neutral as well as Super Fang/Brine Combo stalling combo and being really tough to kill either side. Baton Pass could pass either Cheer Up, Curse, or Barrier. But as a straight out attacker, Kyurem is most of the time just better.
Kyurem also is the ultimate lure for things like Scizor and steels you want gone and can crack Blissey unlike Glaceon with Outrage (if you use it). And it sets up Screens that prevent Bullet Punch/Mach Punch from potentially 2 hit koing you, some even with Stealth Rock (Kyurem is a defensive behemoth that hits insanely hard. With Wish support, he can be insanely hard to kill. And thinking about it, Stealth Rock is a meh excuse for it to not be used since Rayquaza/Reshiram/Ho-Oh are weak to Stealth Rock and ARE Uber. And it doesn't really kill Ulgamoth most of the time. Admittedly, they have better movepools/can't be switched in on safely but Kyurem does hit all types but steel and even a lot of steels very hard with Focus Blast or Choice boosted Blizzards which 2 hit ko the lower special defensive steels like Scizor/Metagross as well as Nattorei because of neutrality). With defenses (417/256 Def Reflect, it survives 2 hits from Choice Band Scizor Bullet Punch, even with Stealth Rock, as long as it has Leftovers Recovery going on), Kyurem just seems better.
But Glaceon just looks adorable and some people think Kyurem is ugly (can't imagine why, it's an awesome Ice/Dragon!)
The only things I can imagine that Glaceon can do better than Kyurem are Snow Cloak (could be haxxy with those Blizzards pounding everything into the dirt like Kyurem and turn the thing around) as well as Ice Body although I still think Walrein is likely to pull that set off better because of Steel neutral as well as Super Fang/Brine Combo stalling combo and being really tough to kill either side. Baton Pass could pass either Cheer Up, Curse, or Barrier. But as a straight out attacker, Kyurem is most of the time just better.
Wish shouldn't really be an option; with Glaceon's horrible 65 base HP, Vaporeon will probably be a superior option, even on a hail team. Unfortunately, even under Trick Room, Glaceon (and this applies to most other Ice-types too) is kinda crappy because of its weaknesses to two of the most common priorities this generation: Bullet Punch [this is somewhat mitigated by a Shanderaa] and Mach Punch [again pretty much solved by Shanderaa's presence] Of course, there ARE some rather slow Fighting-type attackers like Roobushin who can pose a threat to Shanderaa (unless it's OHKOed by Shadow Ball/Flamethrower, I'm not really sure]
Specially now, that vaporeon's wishes are "greater" than Glaceon.
Don't forget to invest in SpD too, although I don't think Glaceon's gonna be tanking Lucario's Vacuum Waves anytime soon.
I don't believe so, crits cut through stat boosts and drops. I don't think they cut through light screen and reflect.
Kyurem banned? u mad?
That said, Kyurem is probably a wee bit too fast for TR which is its only disadvantage. However, it can (unlike Glaceon) beat Blissey with a powerful STAB Outrage. Also, Kyurem's sheer bulk allows it to die less horribly to many attacks.
Conclusion: use Glaceon ONLY in TR. Hail is nice for never miss Blizzard but isn't necessary as Ice Beam kills shit too.
Why would Kyurem be banned lol. It has a shitty signature move(FUCK YEAH I HAVE ICY WIND ON ROIDS AKA 10 MORE BP), but more importantly its slower than Ononokusu(Axeface), who hits you with a SE Outrage first, while Scarf!Hydragon rapes you with Draco Meteor before you can say OH SHIT. Dragon/Ice is relatively derp coverage.
if kyurem ends up banned i am gonna grab my giant nail and hammer it down my ass. sure it completely outclass glaceon; a NU ice type with shitty speed and hp, and that is really not saying much.
even in TR i would rather use kyurem, that thing can achieve such a retarded level of bulky with max hp that it pays off for being...slower in TR(you are still gona outspeed most of the metagame by running quiet with 0 speed ivs anyway) and yes, i am taking his horrible typing into consideration. he is just plain better then glaceon.
this remind me of the old chomp and flygon argument.
even in TR i would rather use kyurem, that thing can achieve such a retarded level of bulky with max hp that it pays off for being...slower in TR(you are still gona outspeed most of the metagame by running quiet with 0 speed ivs anyway) and yes, i am taking his horrible typing into consideration. he is just plain better then glaceon.
this remind me of the old chomp and flygon argument.
"Horrible typing" should not be a factor. If anything Kyurem has a superior typing to Glaceon because Kyurem actually has resists.
Let's list Kyurem and Glaceon's pros and cons...
Kyurem
Pros:
- Bulk: 125/90/90
- Resistances (only added weakness is Dragon)
- Ability to go mixed and thus harm Blissey badly
- Higher speed allowing it to KO before it gets KOed
- Bullshit ability
- Slightly smaller (!!!) movepool
Glaceon
Pros:
- Lower speed allowing for Trick Room sweepiness
- Better movepool (but just by a bit)
- Worst defensive typing of all time
- Not very bulky (good defenses shit HP)
- Cannot face Blissey
Conclusion: Screw Glaceon, use Kyurem.
Pressure isn't bullshit, Glaceon lacks things like Draco Meteor, and the thing is, Glaceon doesn't have Regice-like defenses.
Screw off Glaceon. Vaporeon will always be a better Eeveelution.
(On a side note, let's wait for Freeze Bolt and Cold Flare to come out first. Power Herb FTW. Now if only Kyurem could use Recycle, I'd say that makes him insta-lolwut)
Screw off Glaceon. Vaporeon will always be a better Eeveelution.
(On a side note, let's wait for Freeze Bolt and Cold Flare to come out first. Power Herb FTW. Now if only Kyurem could use Recycle, I'd say that makes him insta-lolwut)
kyurem movepool might be smaller but is more precise; he got most stuff he needs and only that. sure he wish he had other things like eq and DD, fire blast etc. the reason i said i was taking his horrible typing into consideration is because of his weakness to the most common priority moves. he is never ohkoed by roobushin mach punch or scizor BP if he run max hp even if there is SR on the field and that is saying something. being a ice type is a curse but his overall high base stats more then pay off for it.
plus kyurem counter most rain teams to no end if you can get rid of kabutops. glaceon walls what? heck, what glaceon does kyurem cant? that is my point. some here are gonna say wish passing and i will just say vaporeon is better, others say snow cloak and i will just say kyurem higher bulky pays off for not causing misshax, etc etc.
to put it short most of your points are right. i am not trying to disagree with you, just saying why i said what i said.
plus kyurem counter most rain teams to no end if you can get rid of kabutops. glaceon walls what? heck, what glaceon does kyurem cant? that is my point. some here are gonna say wish passing and i will just say vaporeon is better, others say snow cloak and i will just say kyurem higher bulky pays off for not causing misshax, etc etc.
to put it short most of your points are right. i am not trying to disagree with you, just saying why i said what i said.
Instead of Snow Cloak, it now gets, surprise surprise, ICE BODY!
Unfortunately illegal with egg moves, hence cannot Wish pass. What a troll.
Unfortunately illegal with egg moves, hence cannot Wish pass. What a troll.
Are you sure about that? That only goes for when dw pokemon are male only, if you are able to get a female eevee, it's possible.
does it matter? i am pretty sure there is a fatass out there who stalls better with ice body then glaceon, plus kyurem bulky outweights glaceon ice body. even if its legal with wish glaceon hp is still too low to pass anything significant and trying to stall with protect+wish+ice body will result in nothing but glaceon quick death.
No Eevees or Female Eeveelutions are available in DW. All the Eeveelutions were event only males.
I didn't know Glaceon was a Fire/Rock type.
The reason Kyurem would be banned is because of that base stat total of 660. Nothing that good should be legal. Albiet, his movepool is ass, but I think he can be a viable mixed attacker. Go cheer up!
And 95 speed out runs a few things in the banned tier, mainly it's cousins reshiram and zekrom, along with Kyogre, Groudon, and Lugia/Ho-oh.
Trick room with this guy might not be a great idea
And 95 speed out runs a few things in the banned tier, mainly it's cousins reshiram and zekrom, along with Kyogre, Groudon, and Lugia/Ho-oh.
Trick room with this guy might not be a great idea
by your logic regigigas and slaking should be banned cause they base stat total are high too. just because a pokemon got a high base stats total doesnt mean a shit if there is something important lacking(speed on this case). just look at kyurem, he is good and everything but still a ice type that is outspeed by half of the OU metagame.
who gives a fuck if he is good or not in the uber metagame? its just a OU banlist thus should be ignored as far tiering goes.
or if you prefer the short version: he is a ice type.
who gives a fuck if he is good or not in the uber metagame? its just a OU banlist thus should be ignored as far tiering goes.
or if you prefer the short version: he is a ice type.
How exactly is that the worst defensive typing?