BST=/=power. This guy happens to have high power and acceptable bulk, but far too low speed and a bad typing. Many Dragon-types wreck Kyurem, it's SR-weak, and it is punished by Earthquake and Stone Edge. It's never going to be banned.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Glaceon
- Thread starter KurashiDragon
- Start date
CTNC
Doesn't know how to attack
what else is there to be said? anything glaceon does is pretty much outclassed by someone else(if not by kyurem then by vaporeon). there is little to be discussed besides how glaceon sucks and is outclassed. oh, and TR. i would still rather use kyurem in TR so yeah, glaceon is just bad and cant do anything others cant do better.
Being weak to Stealth Rock, 4x weak to Ground and Water type moves, which are insanely common in this metagame, and a weaknees to Fighting.
Yeah, Rock/Fire is really the worst defensive typing you can get these days.
Actually tried TR Glaceon, it's actually better than people give it credit for, it's faster than Kyurem for one.
Still gets wrecked by common priority, though. But if it's given the chance to come in chances are something will die and from that moment on Glaceon is paying for itself.
Probably. But it's not, so what's your point? As of now, it's solid OU.
He may have Ice body and Ice veil, but Kyurem has impressive 125/90/90 defenses, usable attack stat for going mixed, and decent speed. He's generally more usable than glaceon.
The same could be said about 27 other pokemon that aren't ice types.
Kyurem isn't even good in UU. It would take a whole lot of extra stuff to make a successful ice type; neither kyurem nor glaceon have the speed or movepool to be successful.
Gigas and Slaking have incredibly crippling abilities. Kyurem does not. Don't act like the three can be equated
I find it funny how people are saying that 95 base speed is slow. ITS 95 BASE SPEED.
In gen4, I always thought 80 base speed was average enough to do something with, and anything at 70 and below I figured was just slow. I know power creep is huge in this transition from gen4 to gen5, and I know that 90 is now considered "average" in this metagame... but still. 95 base speed is still faster than 75% of the entire list of gen4 pokemon.
I know this ice typing sucks, but so does Ho-Ohs typing , and he still wrecks shit (and hes slower by 5 base speed). I know the ice dragon doesn't have large enough of a move-pool, but it definitely isn't bad enough to bring him down THAT much. This thing is beast, and I definitely can't see how it can be in OU with stats like that.
Glaceon is a weaker version of him, for sure. But I definitely can't understand how this guy can stick around in OU when hes got 660 base stats, and ENOUGH speed and bulk to really do some damage. Not to mention his ability isn't hindering him like Slaking or Regigigigigigas.
In gen4, I always thought 80 base speed was average enough to do something with, and anything at 70 and below I figured was just slow. I know power creep is huge in this transition from gen4 to gen5, and I know that 90 is now considered "average" in this metagame... but still. 95 base speed is still faster than 75% of the entire list of gen4 pokemon.
I know this ice typing sucks, but so does Ho-Ohs typing , and he still wrecks shit (and hes slower by 5 base speed). I know the ice dragon doesn't have large enough of a move-pool, but it definitely isn't bad enough to bring him down THAT much. This thing is beast, and I definitely can't see how it can be in OU with stats like that.
Glaceon is a weaker version of him, for sure. But I definitely can't understand how this guy can stick around in OU when hes got 660 base stats, and ENOUGH speed and bulk to really do some damage. Not to mention his ability isn't hindering him like Slaking or Regigigigigigas.
i was just pointing out as to why the high base stat total=uber logic is flawed. multiple things can influence on the pokemon tier. including ability, typing, where all those base points go, movepool, etc.
on this case its the lack of speed, bad typing and a small(albeit semi-precise) movepool.
But just saying, everything with a >600 BST has been uber so far
Again, with the exception of Pokemon with a crippling ability.
However, there are a few other ways to look at it. For one, those Pokemon have not only had a BST of over 600; they've all had a BST of 670 or higher. And the two that had a BST of 670 had permanent-weather abilities; the rest were 680+. And all of those Pokemon had at least one stat of 150+, with the exception of Arceus, whose BST is even higher, at 720.
Those groupings all have the potential to exclude Kyurem by increasing amounts, and they take more actual aspects of the Pokemon into account, making them more accurate. When it's looked at that way, Kyurem doesn't necessarily have the same characteristics each of those Pokemon have.
@OP: Why would you run Ice Breath when you have Ice Beam, which is stronger?
Myself, I was thinking of ways to use Glaceon other than the obvious Scarf/Trick Room... Then I remebered Leafeon. Why not run a Glaceon similar to Physical Wall Leafeon? Something like the following:
Glaceon w/ Leftovers + Either Nature (Snow Cloak gives you evasion hax, Ice Body helps you stall)
Bold/Calm nature (I run Bold, myself)- 252HP, 158Def, 100SpDef
Ice Beam/Ice Breath
Wish/Rest
Protect/Sleep Talk
Yawn/Toxic/Fake Tears/Charm/Roar
As a pure physical wall, Glaceon is pretty much totally outclassed by Leafeon (other than having a superior offensive type and offensive stat, but we're talking defense, here). Thus, it's better to make Glaceon a mixed wall who leans towards Physical. Ice Beam is standard to make you not taunt bait, and will still deal some nice damage though uninvested, especially to any dragons that think they can setup on you. Ice Beam is stronger, but Ice Breath deserves mention for the ability to ignore stat boosts/drops, as rare as defensive boosting is. Wish/Protect is healing and lets you Wishpass, and Rest/Sleep Talk is, well, RestTalk. For the last slot we pretty much have a list of Glaceon's support movepool. Yawn can force switches or inflict sleep, but the sleep clause diminshes it's worth somewhat. Toxic is, well, Toxic. Fake Tears can force things out- Nothing wants to take double damage from a STAB Ice Beam off 130 base Special attack, even if it is uninvested. And if they stay in, well... See Screech Flygon. Charm can work to render physical attackers completly uneffective and force a switch, but has only limited use. Roar is phasing, and could be an interesting option with RestTalk- however, a lot of pokemon do RestTalkPhase better.
Myself, I was thinking of ways to use Glaceon other than the obvious Scarf/Trick Room... Then I remebered Leafeon. Why not run a Glaceon similar to Physical Wall Leafeon? Something like the following:
Glaceon w/ Leftovers + Either Nature (Snow Cloak gives you evasion hax, Ice Body helps you stall)
Bold/Calm nature (I run Bold, myself)- 252HP, 158Def, 100SpDef
Ice Beam/Ice Breath
Wish/Rest
Protect/Sleep Talk
Yawn/Toxic/Fake Tears/Charm/Roar
As a pure physical wall, Glaceon is pretty much totally outclassed by Leafeon (other than having a superior offensive type and offensive stat, but we're talking defense, here). Thus, it's better to make Glaceon a mixed wall who leans towards Physical. Ice Beam is standard to make you not taunt bait, and will still deal some nice damage though uninvested, especially to any dragons that think they can setup on you. Ice Beam is stronger, but Ice Breath deserves mention for the ability to ignore stat boosts/drops, as rare as defensive boosting is. Wish/Protect is healing and lets you Wishpass, and Rest/Sleep Talk is, well, RestTalk. For the last slot we pretty much have a list of Glaceon's support movepool. Yawn can force switches or inflict sleep, but the sleep clause diminshes it's worth somewhat. Toxic is, well, Toxic. Fake Tears can force things out- Nothing wants to take double damage from a STAB Ice Beam off 130 base Special attack, even if it is uninvested. And if they stay in, well... See Screech Flygon. Charm can work to render physical attackers completly uneffective and force a switch, but has only limited use. Roar is phasing, and could be an interesting option with RestTalk- however, a lot of pokemon do RestTalkPhase better.
It beats CM/defensive boosters, so it's situationally useful.
Oh, forgot CM. It could be used on a Scarf set to revenge CM users, especially Latias.
I wish gamefreak actually give something good to Glaceon, like they could have given Flareon flare blitz(the poor thing needs it T_T)
It might be outclassed by Kyuremu and has a bad typing, but I honestly don't think Glaceon is that bad...
I think that every pokemon can perform well with the right support, a example is that Beautifly sweep I saw on Youtube(to tell the truth, I don't think it got any support at all, maybe except the item it's holding lol)
It might be outclassed by Kyuremu and has a bad typing, but I honestly don't think Glaceon is that bad...
I think that every pokemon can perform well with the right support, a example is that Beautifly sweep I saw on Youtube(to tell the truth, I don't think it got any support at all, maybe except the item it's holding lol)
i think glaceon has some potential on a trick room team, cuz its speed is so low. Also could glaceon make use of mirror coat maybe with a focus band it can really come back and surprise some fire types that try to ohko it
Neither Moltres, Heracross, or Honchcrow were good in UU either *sarcasm*. Moltres was almost banned and Heracross and Honchcrow definitely were (Moltres was only arguably held by Stealth Rock although Stealth Rock definitely didn't hinder it enough). While a new generation, I sincerely doubt that Kyurem would fall that low with huge hp, defenses, and offensive stats, able to Screen and support as well as beat the crap out of the majority of the OU metagame, let alone the things in UU. And Stealth Rock won't be holding Kyurem back very much in UU or OU. And there is no Scizor/Jirachi/Breloom/Bronzong there to worry about (well, I guess you could run Metagross in UU potentially if Kyurem falls there). The only real reason Kyurem isn't used is because of Sazandora/Latios. The Stealth Rock weakness is just an excuse (there are many OU pokemon weak to the Rocks like Gyrados/Salamence/Zapdos/Voltlos/Tornelos/etc), it's really because of them. Sazandora has the good fire moves Kyurem would kill for and Latios still outspeeds a lot of things and resists the Fighting weakness (although obviously not the defensive prize either).
But back to Glaceon. Although in my opinion a weaker Kyurem unless on Trick Room, it can use Wish and Fake Tears although it doesn't really have the speed to use that (again, only use on Trick Room). If Kyurem had Fake Tears...I like the defensive Glaceon set listed and the Fake Tears. Wish and Fake Tears (and Baton Pass) are what Glaceon has over Kyurem and as a straight attacker, Kyurem is better except on Trick Room (but maybe even then because of Kyurem's bulk and the ability to outrun somethings even after Trick Room...).
Glaceon could also be thought of as an extra Kyurem; just in case your Kyurem faints (or you want to use a powerful Hail special attacker before you bring Kyurem out) there's always Glaceon.