1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Gliscor (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Optimusje, Nov 10, 2010.

  1. Optimusje

    Optimusje

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    901
    [​IMG]
    Gliscor
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Status: got the sets down, will write it out in the upcoming days


    Gliscor hasn't gained many new toys to play with (even though its dreamworld ability is Poison heal, it loses Roost if that ever gets released), but it's still as viable as it used to be. Not only does it still have acces to Stealth Rock, but it also has an excellent defensive typing, allowing it to be one of the few pokemon to check Doryuuzu aswell as a large amount of other physical attackers.

    -------------

    [Overview]

    • Good defensive typing and stats, allowing it to stop many common threats, most importantly Doryuuzu.
    • Poison Heal.
    • Good stallbreaker with Taunt, disarming many common walls.
    • Good speed paired with a decent attacking stat means it can go on the offensive.
    • Dreamworld ability takes away your acces to roost and stealth rock.
    • Weak to common attacking types like Water and Ice.
    [SET]
    name: Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Ice Fang / Facade
    move 4: Taunt / Protect
    item: Toxic Orb
    ability: Poison Heal
    nature: Impish
    evs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 Spe


    • Earthquake and Facade gives excellent coverage and two strong moves to attempt a sweep with.
    • Still checks Doryuuzu amd similar threats. Beats Skarmory and Nattorei due to Taunt, completely shutting them down.
    • A spread of 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe Jolly can still be used to make better use of Gliscors decent attack and speed stats, possibly making a sweep easier.


    [SET]
    name: Defensive
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Toxic
    move 3: Taunt / Protect
    move 4: Ice Fang / Facade
    item: Toxic Orb
    ability: Poison Heal
    nature: Impish
    evs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spe


    • Again, checks many common threats, however it doesn't need to rely on Fling to make use of one of its moves. It also gets more then one chance to toxic something.
    • Alternatively, you can run 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Speed Impish for maximum physical bulk. Jolly, 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe is also an option again if you want to outspeed Lucario and stuff like Heatran and faster Skarmory.
    • Can also use Aerial Ace or U-turn for extra coverage or to keep momentum on your team. A slower U-turn can also be useful to get in frailer Pokemon.

    [SET]
    name: Fling
    move 1: Fling
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Acrobat
    move 4: Protect / Taunt / Swords Dance
    item: Toxic Orb
    ability: Poison Heal
    nature: Impish
    evs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spe


    • Checks many dangerous threats in the current metagame
    • Fling allows for a single toxic on an enemy, aswell as boosting acrobat to its maximum strenght.
    • A spread of 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe Jolly can be used to outspeed Lucario and everything slower. You can also use 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe to make most out of your powered up acrobat and possibly attemt a sweep with Swords Dance.
  2. Scythemantis

    Scythemantis

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2007
    Messages:
    44
    Useless? Poison heal + Toxic Orb is a great combo.
  3. snowcone

    snowcone

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2010
    Messages:
    39
    Poison heal does protect it from status so that is pretty awesome, however since roost removes the flying type for that turn it can allow you to get a rock resist just at the right time and cut the ice weakness down to x2 which will allow the survival of some of the weaker ice beams.

    In my experience pretty useful against things like blissey which you can taunt into uselessness
  4. Optimusje

    Optimusje

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    901
    It may have some niche uses on things like a swordsdance set, but Gliscors is very reliant on roost and to a lesser extend Stealth Rock, which it both loses with Poison Heal. If a dreamworld version with Roost got released, this would be very viable, but this is not the case and roost is just too mandatory to pass up.

    Btw, will get this done during the week, rather busy with a few things first though...
  5. Jaroda

    Jaroda

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,529
    For straight up stalling, yes Roost is needed. For a more offensive build Poison Heal is much preferred. Constant healing and more turns to attack. Depending on the set you want, either one could work. I can attest the usefulness of Poison Heal along with Sword Dance, EQ, Fling and Acrobat. With all the fighting types a 110 BP STAB flying attack is a god send what it all the Roopushin, Blaziken, Kojondo and Breloom around. Being able to run either stall or offense is favorable to Gliscor.
  6. Darkmalice

    Darkmalice Like a facepalm, but better
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,533
    Baton Pass sets makes great use of it when considering that the online BP set for 4th gen has Lum Berry as an item choice. Toxic Orb + Poison Heal is permanent Lum Berry with recovery at the price of not being able to switch directly into status. Alternatively, it could still be used with Yache Berry as a choice, giving you the ability to switch into Toxic and benefit.

    Swords Dance sets without Roost sets as well prefer it, though admittedly there's not much point in using a SD Gliscor without Roost, as the reason one would use Gliscor as a SD user is for it's bulk. Jaroda's set might work well, but I'm not sure. I haven't tested it. It definitely looks interesting though.
  7. Optimusje

    Optimusje

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    901
    Yeah, poison heal does have some uses, but they are very slim. I might have chosen the wrong words in overview though, as it makes it looks like it is completely useless. It's just that there are many better options for it to use. I'll change it though, and I'll test Jaroda's set aswell.
  8. NDenizen

    NDenizen

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2010
    Messages:
    452
    Haha, no.

    Fling + Toxic Orb + Acrobat is an efficient combination. Gliscor provides a one-use 100% Accurate Toxic that does damage, can throw away trick items, becomes immune to status, recovers health and then has a 100% accurate STAB 110 Flying move to hand out, alongside Earthquake, adequate coverage and any niche-use moves it has.
    This set has notable flaws, but i've been using it combined with BP White Herb Shell Smash and it is probably one of the most brutal combos i've seen, transcending just a gimmick. A Ditto switching in transforms into a Poison-less Gliscor and then often locks itself into a 55 Power Acrobat, so not even the ultimate revenge killer can deal with it properly.

    It seems situational and gimmicky, but honestly it works very well. Poison Heal provides offensive strategies, it's not just a matter of "Better Leftovers"

    Gliscoxic/Toxiscor (think of a better pun)
    move 1: Acrobat
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Fling
    move 4: Fire Fang / Brick Break / Taunt / Substitute / Basically many roles can be fulfilled in this move slot
    Item: Toxic Orb
    Ability: Poison Heal
    EVs: Depends whether you want to maximise attack and speed, or fancy investing in a bit of bulk to maximise on Poison Heal's utility.

    Obviously Special Attacks, Ice and Water especially, can destroy it, in which case Porygon2 and Bulky Waters present its biggest enemy alongside Ice Sharders. Consider avoiding Fling on Justice Heart pokemon. As said before, Ditto can't properly emulate its effectiveness, but STAB Earthquakes still hurt and carrying any self-effective moves such as Ice Fang is a bad idea.
    An Attack/Speed Baton Pass such as Shell Smash is very useful, not least because it activates Toxic Orb before Gliscor starts its great offense, but the fall in defenses makes Gliscor somewhat of a Glass Cannon hampered by the common old threats of Sash, Priority and possibly now Balloon. Weather wise - Rain means something like Gorebyss can pass easily to Gliscor, but then Gliscor must deal with likely Rain threats.
    Gliscor operates great in Sunny Day, either taking down an opposing Sun team with its great typing and STABs or taking advantage of a missing water weakness. Hail doesn't really matter, but obviously Gliscor hates Ice even with its adequate coverage.
  9. CTNC

    CTNC

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2010
    Messages:
    345
    Poison Heal can be used in Sandstorm for a Sandstorm version of Stall-rein because Poison Heal heals as much Leftovers + Ice Body. I'm just posting this because no one else has and Poison Heal Gliscor is usable in "no unreleased Dream World Pokemon" battles while the same can NOT be said about Drought Ninetails and Drizzle Politoad

    Edit: @Below Good Point... You could use this on WiFi Battles (so you could see your opponents team) with a Magneton/Magnezone to kill Steels and Toxic Spikes to damage any grounded Rock and Ground types.
  10. Optimusje

    Optimusje

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    901
    @ NDenizen: read my above reply, I will test it and I formulated it a bit wrong in the overview

    @ CTNC: That wont work, as stallrein works because only ice mons are immune to it. Sandstorm however, is there for stone, sand and steel, which makes up a good chunk of the OU metagame. It simply isnt worth it.
  11. masterful

    masterful

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,897
    well it takes away the ability to use roost and stealth rocks
  12. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8,210
    Undeniably Sand Veil is superior for the support sets, but after facing a number of these on the ladder, I can say that Poison Heal is formidable on a more "offensive tank."

    The healing is quite significant, especially with protect, and being immune to poison and burn makes it even harder to take down.

    Finally the Fling + Acrobat sets are NOT to be underestimated. Flying / Ground is terrific STAB coverage that Gliscor was never able to abuse due to his lack of a good flying move-- it now gets a 110 STAB flying move on top of status immunity and 12% healing per turn. Please tell me what's not amazing about that?

    The Protect / Acrobat / Earthquake / Fling combines healing, scouting, status immunity, status abusing (1 shot toxic essentially from Fling) and 110 / 100 base STAB moves with near-perfect coverage.

    Fling is especially notable because Bulky Water pokemon (that like to counter gliscor) hate poison.

    How does that not deserve an analysis mention??
  13. Jaroda

    Jaroda

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,529
    Very true. And as a slightly more gimmicky mention, you ever try Thief as well? I've been meaning to try this, but imagine getting the toxic status, flinging your orb, and then stealing Leftovers. That's, what, 3/16 HP recovery every turn? That's effing annoying. Does take a lot of set up but I can't help but laugh at the results.
  14. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8,210
    Not something for the analysis I'd imagine. Stacking an extra leftovers won't give you the "safe" heal that Protect would, and Thief destracts from (is not as good) as Acrobat.
  15. Jaroda

    Jaroda

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,529
    You know I keep forgetting that stealing an item again would decrease Acrobat's power again, so disregard the previous idea. Might as well just use Knock Off if you want to get rid of their items.
  16. Eo Ut Mortus

    Eo Ut Mortus Elodin Smells
    is a Tournament Directoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    3,543
    Having used both Sand Veil and Poison Heal, I heavily disagree that Poison Heal is useless; in fact, I'd say it's far superior to Roost - you don't waste turns Roosting because you recover health gradually, and if you use Protect smartly, you gain additional health and still don't waste any turns, either. Plus, Toxic immunity is invaluable on any Pokemon with decent bulk. I don't know about the Fling / Acrobat set - I use Toxic / Aerial Ace myself, and I think that works fine, but either way, I would argue that Poison Heal should not only not be dismissed, but it should be THE main Gliscor set.

    Even if you weren't using Toxic Orb, I still think immunity to Toxic > potential miss chance.
  17. Jaroda

    Jaroda

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,529
    I wouldn't go so far as to say it's outright superior to Roost, as a defensive Gliscor with Roost and Sand Veil in the sandstorm is downright annoying in it's own right. It's a matter of preference really. I'm enjoying a set with more bulk than power so he can make an amazing wall with good attacking capability, but I'm finding less and less opportunities to use Sword Dance as it just isn't safe since I have to switch so often. I may end up opting for Protect or an annoyence move like Taunt.
  18. Eo Ut Mortus

    Eo Ut Mortus Elodin Smells
    is a Tournament Directoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    3,543
    It may not be outright superior on paper, but I think it is outright superior in practice. There are numerous situations where one cannot afford to waste a turn to Roost, for instance, against Balloon Doryuuzu, Terakion, and Nattorei switch-ins. Poison Heal ensures that you can switch in and out quickly without being worn down too quickly and needing to spare a turn to heal.

    Also, I really like the aforementioned Acrobat + Fling set (Protect in last slot, max HP / Spe) - it helps a lot against Roobushin and Zuruggu among others.
  19. Banryu

    Banryu

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,740
    Poison Heal is far from useless. :0 If you're going to say that on here, you have to put it in perspective: say 'Poison Heal is useless compared to the alternative of Roost, which it must give up in order to have the ability' or something along those lines.
  20. Optimusje

    Optimusje

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    901
    Had this whole thing written out, but firefox crashed so ill just keep this short:

    on defensive sets i still prefer roost, as the 50% recovery is really usefull. However, on offensive stuff, poison heal should probably be the #1 option. My favourite set so far is the one eo (and jaroda) posted, but with a spread of 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe Jolly. It packs a huge punch (which im pretty sure some people can confirm). Swordsdance is an option too, but i havent used it that much.

    Im still testing stuff out, ill post the sets when i decide on the most usefull. Also still need to test baton pass, which im a bit iffy about though
  21. Jaroda

    Jaroda

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,529
    I'm glad you're enjoying the Poison Fling set. It's a lot of fun.

    I've been using a very weird EV spread. Impish 180 HP / 96 At / 68 Df / 164 SpD

    I decided to forgo speed since I don't really see a point when you can't outrun base 100's, so instead I go pure bulk. Of course, if there are any significant threats that I can outrun with a little speed I'll consider that. Impish is great because you get 300+ Df without any EV investment. I think if I substitute Sword Dance for Protect I'll be able to simply muscle and outlast many threats. The hardest part is finding the best balance of defense and offense. Sword Dance isn't so great when he's not as fast so I'll have to use more At EVs instead.
  22. iDunno

    iDunno

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2009
    Messages:
    1,138
    If I could make love to any one of Gliscor's sets, it would be this one:

    [SET]
    name: Venomous Staller (or something else I don't really care it just sums it up nicely)
    move1: Earthquake (Hits Steels immune to Toxic)
    move2: Toxic / Taunt / Aerial Ace (to hits teh breloomz)
    move3: Substitute
    move4: Protect
    item: Toxic Orb
    ability: Poison Heal
    Evs: 176 HP / 80 Atk / 252 Spe
    nature: Impish

    Why it should be onsite?
    -It rocks - its like Stallrein but it doesn't suck outside of hail lol
    -Great for stall teams
    -Sub+Protect is better than roost stalling as you can stall even on moves that would otherwise 2hko you
    -Earthquake kills pokes that are immune to toxic barring Skarmory and Bronzong
    -2HKOes Doryuuzu with Earthquake (herp derp)
    -It's amazing
    -Great typing
    -Great Defense stat and typing (did I mention it has great typing?)
    -Taunt makes Blissey cry, which is always nice and should be used if you have Toxic Spikes support and Toxic spreaders (as well as Rankurusu and Clefable :P It also pisses of Skarmory and Bronzong that wall you lol; but seriously it makes it into a great stallbreaker and helps against phazing)
    -Did I mention this set is awesome and I want to make love to it?
    -You can slash Stone Edge for Earthquake if you are using Taunt to hit Flying Pokes, but it sucks at everything else :P.

    EDIT: Slashed Taunt in the second slot. Can't believe i didn't put it there before.
  23. Atticus

    Atticus Atticus
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnuswon the 10th Official Smogon Tournamentis a SPL Winnerdefeated the Smogon Frontier

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2007
    Messages:
    1,385
    just to reiterate but i found P-heal FAR superior to roost simply because with roost you lose to stuff like Roobushin who drain punches the fuck out of you. protect+p-heal adds up extremely fast and i often DON'T find myself in a position where i need to roost. you don't need speed evs on gliscor, in fact you're better off just maximizing on defense. the set i use is:

    Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 200 Def
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Protect
    - Earthquake
    - Toxic
    - Facade/Aerial Ace


    basically your anti mole glis. the fourth slot is open to a lot of other stuff but just keep in mind i put in an attacking move to break mole balloon. i would highly recommend that if you do go with something different than aa/facade that it's some kind of damaging move. i prefer facade tbh to deliver consistently good damage to stuff like lati@s/random flyers etc. really the only time i've wanted aerial ace is for gengar, otherwise i don't really see any use to aa (roob loses to toxic + protect and breloom doesn't do enough damage consistently, especially without technician to pose a threat).
  24. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8,210
    I kinda of have to laugh at those who scoffed at Roost-less Gliscor, considering that Toxic Orb Glisc is FREAKING EVERYWHERE-- it's one of the most common pokemon in the game! And Sand Veil Roost Gliscor? Hmm . . . I've seen 1 . . . maybe 2 . . . erhm . . . I guess it exists maybe . . . lol

    Anyway, Toxic Orb Glisc of some shape or form should definitely be the 1st listed set, the "standard" gliscor.
  25. Alexshiny94

    Alexshiny94 Wi-Fi Blacklisted

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    388
    Offensive Poison Heal
    [​IMG]
    Item: ToxicOrb
    Nature: Jolly (+Speed -SpAttk)
    Ability: PoisonHeal
    Evs: 40 HP/ 252 Attk/ 218 Speed

    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge/NightSlash
    - Facade
    - ClawSharpen/SwordsDance

    NightSlash in case you want to use SwordsDance, while ClawSharpen if you want to use Stone Edge.
    Facade is boosted by poison, which is given by toxic orb.
    You still have your toxic orb attached but at least the opponent will think twice before using trick on gliscor.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)