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OU Gliscor

Discussion in 'Preliminary Pokedex' started by Hootie, Feb 19, 2014.

  1. Hootie

    Hootie

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    gliscor.gif
    ground.gif / flying.gif
    Gliscor | #472
    |
    BW2 Analysis|Serebii|Bulbapedia|
    |XY Preview|

    Overview
    ########

    Gliscor is a top defensive threat in today's metagame. With great defensive typing that gives it a resistance to Fighting, immunity to Ground, and neutrality to Stealth Rock, it checks top-tier threats such as Excadrill, Terrakion, Landorus-T, and Lucario. In addition to its great typing, it has access to the coveted Poison Heal, which lets Gliscor regain one-eighth of its HP once Toxic Orb has activated, while making Gliscor effectively immune to status. Despite facing competition from Landorus-T, Gliscor's main advantage is its longevity. Its SubToxic set is still a great stall Pokemon, though it does have to get past many more threats this generation in order be successful.

    However, Gliscor has its fair share of problems as well. While its Defense is fantastic, it falls short due to mediocre HP making its physical bulk good, but not outstanding. Also, while its typing does give it some good resistances and immunities, it still does not have enough resistances to take on a substantial number of threats. As mentioned above, Gliscor faces competition with Landorus-T, which sports a much greater Attack and better physical bulk after factoring in Intimidate, making it much more suited to the current metagame. Gliscor also has very bad special bulk and is weak to common Water- and Ice-type attacks. Despite these shortcomings however, Gliscor has many great qualities that make it a great support Pokemon overall.


    SubToxic
    ########
    Name: SubToxic
    Move 1: Substitute
    Move 2: Toxic
    Move 3: Protect
    Move 4: Earthquake
    Ability: Poison Heal
    Item: Toxic Orb
    Nature: Impish
    EVs: 244 HP / 28 Def / 236 Spe

    Moves
    ========

    With its great typing and decent Speed, Gliscor can stall many threats. Substitute is the most important move on this set as it allows Gliscor to scout incoming attacks and stall against Pokemon that are inflicted with Toxic. Protect helps recover more HP from Poison Heal, letting Gliscor continue setting up Substitutes. It also helps stall out the opponents PP, a critical tactic for defeating Pokemon such as Rotom-W that rely on a low PP move, Hydro Pump, to take out Gliscor. Earthquake is an obligatory STAB move so Gliscor is able to hit Steel- and Poison-types that switch in on Toxic, preventing it from being setup bait. All of these moves are absolutely mandatory for this set to succeed; any other options would be inferior to the given moves listed as without either Protect or Substitute, stalling becomes inefficient, and without Earthquake Gliscor becomes setup bait for Pokemon immune to Toxic.

    Set Details
    ========

    The given HP EVs make Gliscor's HP a multiple of eight so it is able to gain back the maximum amount of health possible from Poison Heal. The Speed EVs allow Gliscor to outspeed maximum Speed Mamoswine and below so it stalls out as many slower threats as possible, while an Impish nature plus putting the remaining EVs in Defense augments Gliscor's good physical bulk. Toxic Orb is mandatory to automatically activate Poison Heal, as without recovering an eighth of Gliscor's HP every turn, it would not be very effective at stalling.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    As with most defensive Pokemon, Gliscor should switch in on Pokemon that it walls, set up a Substitute on the opponent's forced switch, and start stalling Pokemon with Toxic. After a Pokemon has been inflicted with Toxic, it's best to alternate between Substitute and Protect as there is no net HP loss in doing so while the opponent's Pokemon slowly faint from residual damage. Make sure to alternate between Protect and Substitute only when Gliscor is Toxic stalling a faster Pokemon. Earthquake should only be used when finishing off weakened slower targets or when up against a Steel-type. It is best to not start Toxic stalling until bulky Pokemon immune to Toxic are taken out. Watch out for Air Balloon users such as Heatran or Aegislash, as they shut down this set completely. If Gliscor is against a status user before Toxic Orb has activated, use Protect to block the opponent's attack. After Toxic Orb activates, Gliscor also makes a great Knock Off absorber. Lastly, when facing an opponent utilizing low accuracy or PP moves, it is best to wait for a miss and stall out the move's PP so Gliscor obtains a free Substitute.

    Team Options
    ========

    This set has a lot of trouble dealing with defensive Steel-types and Mega Venusaur due to its reliance on Toxic to deal damage. Because of this, Gliscor appreciates powerful Fire-types such as Heatran, Talonflame, and both Mega Charizard formes to take out problematic Steel-types. Latios easily 2HKOes Mega Venusaur with Life Orb Psyshock. Mega Venusaur also makes a great partner as it is able to take on powerful special attackers that threaten Gliscor such as Keldeo, Thundurus, Manaphy, Greninja, and Mixed Aegislash. Gliscor also appreciates both Latios and Latias removed, so Pursuit trappers such as Tyranitar, Bisharp, and Aegislash are all great partners because they also have decent synergy with Gliscor.


    Other Options
    ########

    Gliscor has some other offensive options at its disposal. Firstly, Knock Off is a very good support move that allows Gliscor to remove items while also enabling it to cripple Gengar on the switch. Ice Fang hits Pokemon 4x weak to Ice such as opposing Gliscor, Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Dragonite. Facade is decently powerful after being inflicted with poison to hit Pokemon such as Rotom-W, but does not help against Steel-types and a STAB Earthquake generally deals more damage. Swords Dance and Acrobatics is another option to attempt a sweep, but the set walled by Rotom-W, Zapdos, and Thundurus, and Flying Gem is unavailable. Fling with a Toxic Orb can be used alongside Acrobatics, but Gliscor is better off using Toxic instead. A set consisting of Earthquake, Substitute, Baton Pass, and Taunt is another option for Gliscor for use on full Baton Pass teams, but it is somewhat outclassed on these teams in general. There is also an option for Gliscor to use a set consisting of Toxic, Taunt, Roost, and Earthquake to wear down stall teams with ease, but it does not fare so well against offensive teams. Finally, Gliscor can utilize a support set with Defog, Stealth Rock, Roost, and Earthquake, but there are better users of Defog and Gliscor has to forgo Poison Heal to use it.


    Checks & Counters
    ########

    **Water-types**: Water-types that outspeed Gliscor can force it out, such as Greninja, Manaphy, Keldeo, and Choice Scarf Rotom-W. Calm Mind Suicune can also set up on Gliscor as it can cure status and restore HP with Rest. Swift Swim Pokemon such as Kabutops, Ludicolo, and Kingdra can also force Gliscor out, but none of them appreciate Toxic wearing them down.

    **Strong Special Attackers**: Mega Charizard Y can OHKO Gliscor with a sun-boosted Fire Blast. Mega Gardevoir's Hyper Voice pierces Gliscor's Substitute and OHKOes after Stealth Rock damage. Thundurus and Deoxys-S can easily take out Gliscor with Hidden Power Ice and Ice Beam, respectively.

    **Toxic-Immune Pokemon**: Mega Scizor with Roost easily sets up on Gliscor, while it can barely do anything in return. Gengar shuts down any SubToxic set due to Levitate and its Poison typing, however it must watch out for Knock Off, though it is rare. Magic Guard Clefable takes no damage from Toxic and can easily take Earthquakes, but Unaware variants fall to Toxic. Lastly, Air Balloon users such as Heatran and Aegislash can temporarily check Gliscor if it is not behind a Substitute.

    **Faster Taunt Users**: Faster users of Taunt easily shut down Gliscor. Crobat can Taunt Gliscor and is immune to Toxic and Earthquake, making it the perfect counter to the SubToxic set. Prankster Taunt users such as Thundurus, Sableye, and Tornadus stop Gliscor in its tracks while Gliscor cannot do much to any of them in return. Timid Deoxys-D and Deoxys-S also shut down Gliscor with their speedy Taunts.

    **Sound-Based Moves**: Gliscor greatly relies on Substitute to be useful, but this can be ignored by sound-based moves. Both Mega Gardevoir and Sylveon have Pixilate-boosted Hyper Voice to pierce Substitute while hitting extremely hard. Sylveon also has the distinct advantage of having Heal Bell to heal off Toxic.

    **Ice-types**: Ice-types in general can be problematic for Gliscor. Mamoswine and Cloyster both have access to Icicle Spear to go through Gliscor's Substitute and KO it. Kyurem-B and Weavile outspeed and threaten with STAB Ice Beam and Ice Punch respectively while the former can also Substitute on a predicted Toxic.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 18, 2014
  2. Hootie

    Hootie

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    I thought I'd put Defog in the second set just because it provides invaluable support at the cost of Poison Heal. I'd like some opinions on it to see if it deserves to be on the set because giving up essentially double leftovers recovery and immunity to status is a huge price to pay and reduces Gliscor's longevity. I'll try testing it out later.

    EDIT: Actually does the second set even have uses when Landorus-T seems to work better in that role?
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2014
  3. Swamp Link

    Swamp Link Yum
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    I'm not QC, but these are my suggestions.

    In the overview, mention longevity as a main advantage over Landorus-T.

    I wouldn't bother with Defog because Poison Heal is just so ridiculously good. I think a Pivot set is alright because it does have so much longevity over Landorus-T in exchange for offensive presence. But if you're using Defog, then you give up Poison Heal, which is a big advantage. What I would slash with Taunt instead is Stealth Rock because Gliscor is a decent setter of it. But something like this should be fine:

    Earthquake
    U-turn
    Roost / Knock Off
    Taunt / Stealth Rock

    And then with Toxic and Ice Fang in set details.

    On the first set, Taunt > Roost. Protect can be the first slash to be a stalling whore, but Taunt is great to stop defensive pokemon from healing and offensive pokemon from boosting. You can mention Roost in set comments, but I don't think it's necessary.

    Fling + Acrobatics with a Toxic Orb and Poison Heal in OO for being annoying and not sucking but generally being kind of weak.

    Mention Crobat and Air Balloon Excadrill in Checks and Counters, as well as special attackers in general. They don't need to be as strong as Mega Charizard Y, something like Latias would suffice.

    By the way, Zapdos is faster than Gliscor, so you can't outspeed a max speed Zapdos. The EV's are just for Landorus-T and base 90's, I'm pretty sure.

    Overall, though, this was a pretty good analysis, my suggestions were either opinions or small changes. Good work!
  4. Hootie

    Hootie

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    Thanks for the suggestions! This is my first analysis here so it's nice to get positive feedback. Okay so I used most of your changes and I meant to say on the first set that the EVs allow you to outspeed defensive Zapdos so I clarified that point.
  5. Hootie

    Hootie

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    I'm pretty sure I have everything relevant listed on Gliscor so this should be QC ready. I want more recommendations for the sets listed and want QC's opinion on Defog
  6. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    there should be a defog set. eq / sr / roost / eq @ leftovers with w/e defensive spread. it is still very bulky physically and has the niche of sr + defog + reliable recovery (like skarm) and the ability to beat heatran, which are nice pros over other defoggers. the lack of ph is not fun, but gliscor gets along just fine without it.

    remove the lefties slash on defensive. slash sr before taunt, and knock off with u-turn. slash protect with u-turn / knock off, too. mention stone edge for pinsir and balloon exca, among other things, in 'moves'.

    mention on subpasser that rp has a niche on full baton pass teams if you want a backup speed booster.

    mention specific infiltrator/sound-based move users in c&c; sylveon (heal bell rids toxic), noivern, crobat (which lols at it), chandelure.
  7. Hootie

    Hootie

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    I've implemented all your changes Jukain
  8. SmashBrosBrawl

    SmashBrosBrawl

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    Skarmory does not check gliscor at all. Every single set on this analysis has taunt on it except the last one that has defog, both moves which completely shutdown skarmory. Theres no reason to mention skarmory as while gliscor cant kill it it can completely prevent it from doing anything.
  9. Hootie

    Hootie

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    So after testing on the ladder to see how well Defog Gliscor works, it just seems too underwhelming and I'd rather just run Excadrill if I want a poke that can rid of hazards that also checks Heatran or just another Defog user in general. It just wastes Gliscor's fantastic defensive potential forgoing Poison Heal. Plus Gliscor has a bad case a 4MSS already and there are times where I really want to have Taunt on the set to shut down walls and set up, but then I'd have to give up Stealth Rock which without Stealth Rock on the set you might as well use Mandibuzz as your defogger of choice. Of course I will keep the set in for other QC members to determine if it's worth it or not, but I just wanted to put my own input about the set is all.
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2014
  10. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    run 232 speed evs on subtoxic to outrun max mega chomp, you might as well because it's 8 evs. also, protect is mandatory so you get more recovery to recover whole subs (in a sub + protect cycle) for efficient toxic stalling. slash taunt in the last slot instead.

    meanwhile defensive isn't trying to get off fast subs and such to stall. one of the set's main pros is increased bulk. just run 56 evs to outrun sharp, that is enough. also, i would move taunt down to moves. sr is a big reason to run that set over subtoxic (for the support) and taunt is kinda ehh because gliscor can't do much to the bulky mons w/o toxic. it has a reason to be used in stopping sr'ers, but not to replace sr.
  11. PurpleCordial

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    Pretty sure it's 8. Although if 16 is right then you need to change the other sets.
  12. Hootie

    Hootie

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    The only reason I say 16 for the Defog set is because it uses lefties rather than Poison Heal + Toxic Orb to heal.
    PurpleCordial likes this.
  13. Hootie

    Hootie

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    Just posting here to say that I made some updates to whole analysis by expanding on team options a bit more and rearranged some of the sets. I also cleaned up a few things (like changing Defog set's ability to Sand Veil only), tried to get rid of all unnecessary comments, moved certain comments to the right places and made the OP look a little nicer :]
  14. Swamp Link

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    Sand Veil's illegal under Evasion Clause, so just make it Hyper Cutter.
  15. gamer boy

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    evasion clause no longer applies to Sand Veil and Snow Cloak due to the weather nerf, unless it has changed without my noticing

    Also I would dash Knock Off with Stealth Rock on the Defog set as if you are just going to blow them away it is often better not to run it, although it does have SOME uses in the slot, which is why I am not saying to remove it
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014
  16. PurpleCordial

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    The whole point of that set was to run Defog + SR filling a very small niche niche:

  17. Hootie

    Hootie

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    Made some more updates by getting rid of any extra slashes in SubToxic as all of those moves are absolutely necessary to the set's success and organized the Checks and Counters section by categories.
  18. Hootie

    Hootie

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    I talked on IRC and defog got the axe. Ready for stamps plz.
  19. Swamp Link

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    Minor things. I'd like for you to mention in the overview that it's somewhat niche as a stallbreaker, usually, since it gets a ton of usage for whatever reason. When talking about what the first and third sets outspeed, you only need to mention the benchmark you're going for, which is Mega Garchomp. Remove Empoleon from the Team Options sections. You can add other special walls than Chansey in the Team Options section for the first set too. For the third set, explain that on full Baton Pass, if you don't have a sub up, it's always better to sub than to boost. In the usage tips of the first set, change the comment about using protect first turn to using substitute first turn if they have a status move. And finally, stress that Gliscor should spam U-turn a lot on the second set whenever it forces a switch or is slower than something that you can beat with another Pokemon.

    Do these and I'll stamp.
  20. Spirit

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    Okay so QC talked a little on irc.

    Remove Ferrothorn from checks and counters, the best that occurs with that matchup is a stalemate. Subsequently, remove it from the overview.

    I'd also emphasize that Rotom-W is a shaky check rather than a decent one because Gliscor can easily outstall Hydro Pump's PP with Protect + Sub.
  21. dcae

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    in the overview, change the sitting duck line to essentially a sitting duck for anything that has physical bulk and iz immune to Toxic.
  22. Hootie

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    Implemented all of the posts above me (screw editing posts on my tablet)

    EDIT: Took ferro out of c&c idk how I missed that
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2014
  23. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    [​IMG]
    QC APPROVED 1/3

    Thanks for being patient.
  24. Swamp Link

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  25. Hootie

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    Thanks for the checks guys! Now that I'm on spring break I'll have plenty of time to write it up.

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