1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Info Hub for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  3. The Social Media forum has returned from the grave!
  4. Ever find yourself missing out on the latest Smogon articles? We've now got a subscription service, so the newest articles (of your choice) are delivered right to your inbox! Check it out here.

OU Gliscor

Discussion in 'Preliminary Pokedex' started by Hootie, Feb 19, 2014.

  1. Hootie

    Hootie
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2012
    Messages:
    674
    gliscor.gif
    ground.gif / flying.gif
    Gliscor | #472
    |
    BW2 Analysis|Serebii|Bulbapedia|
    |XY Preview|

    Overview
    ########

    Gliscor is a top defensive threat in today's metagame. With great defensive typing that gives it a resistance to Fighting, immunity to Ground, and neutrality to Stealth Rock, it checks top-tier threats such as Excadrill, Terrakion, Landorus-T, and Lucario. In addition to its great typing, it has access to the coveted Poison Heal, which lets Gliscor regain one-eighth of its HP once Toxic Orb has activated, while making Gliscor effectively immune to status. Despite facing competition from Landorus-T, Gliscor's main advantage is its longevity. Its SubToxic set is still a great stall Pokemon, though it does have to get past many more threats this generation in order be successful.

    However, Gliscor has its fair share of problems as well. While its Defense is fantastic, it falls short due to mediocre HP making its physical bulk good, but not outstanding. Also, while its typing does give it some good resistances and immunities, it still does not have enough resistances to take on a substantial number of threats. As mentioned above, Gliscor faces competition with Landorus-T, which sports a much greater Attack and better physical bulk after factoring in Intimidate, making it much more suited to the current metagame. Gliscor also has very bad special bulk and is weak to common Water- and Ice-type attacks. Despite these shortcomings however, Gliscor has many great qualities that make it a great support Pokemon overall.


    SubToxic
    ########
    Name: SubToxic
    Move 1: Substitute
    Move 2: Toxic
    Move 3: Protect
    Move 4: Earthquake
    Ability: Poison Heal
    Item: Toxic Orb
    Nature: Impish
    EVs: 244 HP / 28 Def / 236 Spe

    Moves
    ========

    With its great typing and decent Speed, Gliscor can stall many threats. Substitute is the most important move on this set as it allows Gliscor to scout incoming attacks and stall against Pokemon that are inflicted with Toxic. Protect helps recover more HP from Poison Heal, letting Gliscor continue setting up Substitutes. It also helps stall out the opponents PP, a critical tactic for defeating Pokemon such as Rotom-W that rely on a low PP move, Hydro Pump, to take out Gliscor. Earthquake is an obligatory STAB move so Gliscor is able to hit Steel- and Poison-types that switch in on Toxic, preventing it from being setup bait. All of these moves are absolutely mandatory for this set to succeed; any other options would be inferior to the given moves listed as without either Protect or Substitute, stalling becomes inefficient, and without Earthquake Gliscor becomes setup bait for Pokemon immune to Toxic.

    Set Details
    ========

    The given HP EVs make Gliscor's HP a multiple of eight so it is able to gain back the maximum amount of health possible from Poison Heal. The Speed EVs allow Gliscor to outspeed maximum Speed Mamoswine and below so it stalls out as many slower threats as possible, while an Impish nature plus putting the remaining EVs in Defense augments Gliscor's good physical bulk. Toxic Orb is mandatory to automatically activate Poison Heal, as without recovering an eighth of Gliscor's HP every turn, it would not be very effective at stalling.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    As with most defensive Pokemon, Gliscor should switch in on Pokemon that it walls, set up a Substitute on the opponent's forced switch, and start stalling Pokemon with Toxic. After a Pokemon has been inflicted with Toxic, it's best to alternate between Substitute and Protect as there is no net HP loss in doing so while the opponent's Pokemon slowly faint from residual damage. Make sure to alternate between Protect and Substitute only when Gliscor is Toxic stalling a faster Pokemon. Earthquake should only be used when finishing off weakened slower targets or when up against a Steel-type. It is best to not start Toxic stalling until bulky Pokemon immune to Toxic are taken out. Watch out for Air Balloon users such as Heatran or Aegislash, as they shut down this set completely. If Gliscor is against a status user before Toxic Orb has activated, use Protect to block the opponent's attack. After Toxic Orb activates, Gliscor also makes a great Knock Off absorber. Lastly, when facing an opponent utilizing low accuracy or PP moves, it is best to wait for a miss and stall out the move's PP so Gliscor obtains a free Substitute.

    Team Options
    ========

    This set has a lot of trouble dealing with defensive Steel-types and Mega Venusaur due to its reliance on Toxic to deal damage. Because of this, Gliscor appreciates powerful Fire-types such as Heatran, Talonflame, and both Mega Charizard formes to take out problematic Steel-types. Latios easily 2HKOes Mega Venusaur with Life Orb Psyshock. Mega Venusaur also makes a great partner as it is able to take on powerful special attackers that threaten Gliscor such as Keldeo, Thundurus, Manaphy, Greninja, and Mixed Aegislash. Gliscor also appreciates both Latios and Latias removed, so Pursuit trappers such as Tyranitar, Bisharp, and Aegislash are all great partners because they also have decent synergy with Gliscor.


    Other Options
    ########

    Gliscor has some other offensive options at its disposal. Firstly, Knock Off is a very good support move that allows Gliscor to remove items while also enabling it to cripple Gengar on the switch. Ice Fang hits Pokemon 4x weak to Ice such as opposing Gliscor, Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Dragonite. Facade is decently powerful after being inflicted with poison to hit Pokemon such as Rotom-W, but does not help against Steel-types and a STAB Earthquake generally deals more damage. Swords Dance and Acrobatics is another option to attempt a sweep, but the set walled by Rotom-W, Zapdos, and Thundurus, and Flying Gem is unavailable. Fling with a Toxic Orb can be used alongside Acrobatics, but Gliscor is better off using Toxic instead. A set consisting of Earthquake, Substitute, Baton Pass, and Taunt is another option for Gliscor for use on full Baton Pass teams, but it is somewhat outclassed on these teams in general. There is also an option for Gliscor to use a set consisting of Toxic, Taunt, Roost, and Earthquake to wear down stall teams with ease, but it does not fare so well against offensive teams. Finally, Gliscor can utilize a support set with Defog, Stealth Rock, Roost, and Earthquake, but there are better users of Defog and Gliscor has to forgo Poison Heal to use it.


    Checks & Counters
    ########

    **Water-types**: Water-types that outspeed Gliscor can force it out, such as Greninja, Manaphy, Keldeo, and Choice Scarf Rotom-W. Calm Mind Suicune can also set up on Gliscor as it can cure status and restore HP with Rest. Swift Swim Pokemon such as Kabutops, Ludicolo, and Kingdra can also force Gliscor out, but none of them appreciate Toxic wearing them down.

    **Strong Special Attackers**: Mega Charizard Y can OHKO Gliscor with a sun-boosted Fire Blast. Mega Gardevoir's Hyper Voice pierces Gliscor's Substitute and OHKOes after Stealth Rock damage. Thundurus and Deoxys-S can easily take out Gliscor with Hidden Power Ice and Ice Beam, respectively.

    **Toxic-Immune Pokemon**: Mega Scizor with Roost easily sets up on Gliscor, while it can barely do anything in return. Gengar shuts down any SubToxic set due to Levitate and its Poison typing, however it must watch out for Knock Off, though it is rare. Magic Guard Clefable takes no damage from Toxic and can easily take Earthquakes, but Unaware variants fall to Toxic. Lastly, Air Balloon users such as Heatran and Aegislash can temporarily check Gliscor if it is not behind a Substitute.

    **Faster Taunt Users**: Faster users of Taunt easily shut down Gliscor. Crobat can Taunt Gliscor and is immune to Toxic and Earthquake, making it the perfect counter to the SubToxic set. Prankster Taunt users such as Thundurus, Sableye, and Tornadus stop Gliscor in its tracks while Gliscor cannot do much to any of them in return. Timid Deoxys-D and Deoxys-S also shut down Gliscor with their speedy Taunts.

    **Sound-Based Moves**: Gliscor greatly relies on Substitute to be useful, but this can be ignored by sound-based moves. Both Mega Gardevoir and Sylveon have Pixilate-boosted Hyper Voice to pierce Substitute while hitting extremely hard. Sylveon also has the distinct advantage of having Heal Bell to heal off Toxic.

    **Ice-types**: Ice-types in general can be problematic for Gliscor. Mamoswine and Cloyster both have access to Icicle Spear to go through Gliscor's Substitute and KO it. Kyurem-B and Weavile outspeed and threaten with STAB Ice Beam and Ice Punch respectively while the former can also Substitute on a predicted Toxic.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 18, 2014
  2. Hootie

    Hootie
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2012
    Messages:
    674
    I thought I'd put Defog in the second set just because it provides invaluable support at the cost of Poison Heal. I'd like some opinions on it to see if it deserves to be on the set because giving up essentially double leftovers recovery and immunity to status is a huge price to pay and reduces Gliscor's longevity. I'll try testing it out later.

    EDIT: Actually does the second set even have uses when Landorus-T seems to work better in that role?
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2014
  3. Swamp Link

    Swamp Link Yum
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2013
    Messages:
    833
    I'm not QC, but these are my suggestions.

    In the overview, mention longevity as a main advantage over Landorus-T.

    I wouldn't bother with Defog because Poison Heal is just so ridiculously good. I think a Pivot set is alright because it does have so much longevity over Landorus-T in exchange for offensive presence. But if you're using Defog, then you give up Poison Heal, which is a big advantage. What I would slash with Taunt instead is Stealth Rock because Gliscor is a decent setter of it. But something like this should be fine:

    Earthquake
    U-turn
    Roost / Knock Off
    Taunt / Stealth Rock

    And then with Toxic and Ice Fang in set details.

    On the first set, Taunt > Roost. Protect can be the first slash to be a stalling whore, but Taunt is great to stop defensive pokemon from healing and offensive pokemon from boosting. You can mention Roost in set comments, but I don't think it's necessary.

    Fling + Acrobatics with a Toxic Orb and Poison Heal in OO for being annoying and not sucking but generally being kind of weak.

    Mention Crobat and Air Balloon Excadrill in Checks and Counters, as well as special attackers in general. They don't need to be as strong as Mega Charizard Y, something like Latias would suffice.

    By the way, Zapdos is faster than Gliscor, so you can't outspeed a max speed Zapdos. The EV's are just for Landorus-T and base 90's, I'm pretty sure.

    Overall, though, this was a pretty good analysis, my suggestions were either opinions or small changes. Good work!
  4. Hootie

    Hootie
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2012
    Messages:
    674
    Thanks for the suggestions! This is my first analysis here so it's nice to get positive feedback. Okay so I used most of your changes and I meant to say on the first set that the EVs allow you to outspeed defensive Zapdos so I clarified that point.
  5. Hootie

    Hootie
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2012
    Messages:
    674
    I'm pretty sure I have everything relevant listed on Gliscor so this should be QC ready. I want more recommendations for the sets listed and want QC's opinion on Defog
  6. Jukain

    Jukain ~.~
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    4,690
    there should be a defog set. eq / sr / roost / eq @ leftovers with w/e defensive spread. it is still very bulky physically and has the niche of sr + defog + reliable recovery (like skarm) and the ability to beat heatran, which are nice pros over other defoggers. the lack of ph is not fun, but gliscor gets along just fine without it.

    remove the lefties slash on defensive. slash sr before taunt, and knock off with u-turn. slash protect with u-turn / knock off, too. mention stone edge for pinsir and balloon exca, among other things, in 'moves'.

    mention on subpasser that rp has a niche on full baton pass teams if you want a backup speed booster.

    mention specific infiltrator/sound-based move users in c&c; sylveon (heal bell rids toxic), noivern, crobat (which lols at it), chandelure.
  7. SmashBrosBrawl

    SmashBrosBrawl

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2012
    Messages:
    1,110
    Skarmory does not check gliscor at all. Every single set on this analysis has taunt on it except the last one that has defog, both moves which completely shutdown skarmory. Theres no reason to mention skarmory as while gliscor cant kill it it can completely prevent it from doing anything.
  8. Jukain

    Jukain ~.~
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    4,690
    run 232 speed evs on subtoxic to outrun max mega chomp, you might as well because it's 8 evs. also, protect is mandatory so you get more recovery to recover whole subs (in a sub + protect cycle) for efficient toxic stalling. slash taunt in the last slot instead.

    meanwhile defensive isn't trying to get off fast subs and such to stall. one of the set's main pros is increased bulk. just run 56 evs to outrun sharp, that is enough. also, i would move taunt down to moves. sr is a big reason to run that set over subtoxic (for the support) and taunt is kinda ehh because gliscor can't do much to the bulky mons w/o toxic. it has a reason to be used in stopping sr'ers, but not to replace sr.
  9. PurpleCordial

    PurpleCordial

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2011
    Messages:
    144
    Pretty sure it's 8. Although if 16 is right then you need to change the other sets.
  10. Hootie

    Hootie
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2012
    Messages:
    674
    The only reason I say 16 for the Defog set is because it uses lefties rather than Poison Heal + Toxic Orb to heal.
    PurpleCordial likes this.
  11. Swamp Link

    Swamp Link Yum
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2013
    Messages:
    833
    Sand Veil's illegal under Evasion Clause, so just make it Hyper Cutter.
  12. gamer boy

    gamer boy

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2013
    Messages:
    2,664
    evasion clause no longer applies to Sand Veil and Snow Cloak due to the weather nerf, unless it has changed without my noticing

    Also I would dash Knock Off with Stealth Rock on the Defog set as if you are just going to blow them away it is often better not to run it, although it does have SOME uses in the slot, which is why I am not saying to remove it
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014
  13. PurpleCordial

    PurpleCordial

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2011
    Messages:
    144
    The whole point of that set was to run Defog + SR filling a very small niche niche:

  14. Swamp Link

    Swamp Link Yum
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2013
    Messages:
    833
    Minor things. I'd like for you to mention in the overview that it's somewhat niche as a stallbreaker, usually, since it gets a ton of usage for whatever reason. When talking about what the first and third sets outspeed, you only need to mention the benchmark you're going for, which is Mega Garchomp. Remove Empoleon from the Team Options sections. You can add other special walls than Chansey in the Team Options section for the first set too. For the third set, explain that on full Baton Pass, if you don't have a sub up, it's always better to sub than to boost. In the usage tips of the first set, change the comment about using protect first turn to using substitute first turn if they have a status move. And finally, stress that Gliscor should spam U-turn a lot on the second set whenever it forces a switch or is slower than something that you can beat with another Pokemon.

    Do these and I'll stamp.
  15. dcae

    dcae naughty list

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,189
    in the overview, change the sitting duck line to essentially a sitting duck for anything that has physical bulk and iz immune to Toxic.
  16. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed Notorious for committing 3 counts of grand theft auto
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,710
    [​IMG]
    QC APPROVED 1/3

    Thanks for being patient.
  17. Swamp Link

    Swamp Link Yum
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2013
    Messages:
    833
  18. Hootie

    Hootie
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2012
    Messages:
    674
    This is all written up and ready for the third QC stamp. I removed the SubPass set due to it being outperformed by other users of the move on dedicated Baton Pass teams.
  19. Ash Borer

    Ash Borer Throttle Chopper

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2007
    Messages:
    2,719
    Gliscor has a resistance to fight/ground moves but so do all Flying types. What makes Ground/flying so good is the neutrality to Rock-type moves so stone edge + EQ is far less effective against Gliscor compared to other flying types.

    Here where you compare it to Lando-T you kinda gloss over how Lando outclasses Gliscor, only to revisit it later. This is why im not a fan of just having two paragraphs of pros and cons because it is an inflexible way of writing. You dont have to rewrite this entirely, but its something to consider. You removed BP as a main set which im fine with, but remove that line there in the overview. Finally avoid starting a following sentence the exact same way as the last, it sounds kinda shitty. There's some other stuff id pick at but the content here it good.

    I have a couple things. Even though its kinda obvious I notice some inexperienced users of SubToxic Gliscor fail to recognize this. If you get a free sub against something faster than you that is already toxic'd you can stall them out by just spamming sub/protect even if youre already behind a sub, dont attack. Even though it may seem like a "free EQ" youll be forced out if the opponent can survive toxic + EQ damage. Also, add something about PP stalling and miss fishing here. If your opponent relies on poor accuracy or low PP moves to hit you sub protect the fuck out of them until you get a free sub. Rotom-W's Hydro Pump is something Gliscor laughs at.

    I wouldnt mention explicitly that EQ is for not being set up bait, its mainly just because it does damage and lets you counter EQ weak pokes. Taunt and Toxic are more explicitly anti set up moves. Again taunt helps stop boosting which is helpful. U-turn also has the utility of letting Gliscor act as a true pivot. If you come in on something Gliscor cant really hurt and is faster than you, but you can wall such as Zapdos, and then U-turn you can get a pokemon like Greninja in safely who normally wouldnt be able to switch into Zapdos at all. Just an example.

    put 4 more EVs into Speed. Although rare af max+ Aegislash ties you with this spread might as well outrun it!

    also be wary of shit that totally walls/sets up on Gliscor like Skarm or Scizor. They love to get in on Gliscor for free and spamming uturn can reverse the momentum if they predict a protect/roost/toxic or something

    add defog and baton pass here now they arent main sets.

    This is pretty good except I want you to remove Rotom-W here entirely. GLiscor should stall out Rotom's hydro pumps every single time, then toxic it until it has to rest, toxic it again and then if it rests again you can simply switch out for free turns if it really comes to that. It isnt a check at all.

    make these minor changes and

    QC 3/3 well done Hootie~

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2014
  20. RotomPoison

    RotomPoison

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2012
    Messages:
    1,409
    Hi. Amcheck. Done now. About halfway through I stopped doing it the hard way (which is 10x harder on a touch screen) so what needed to be removed was crossed out starting from there.

    Add
    Remove
    Comments

    amcheck (open)

    Overview
    ########

    Gliscor remains to be a top defensive threat in today's metagame. With great defensive typing that gives it a resistance to Fighting, immunity to Ground, but while also making it neutral to Stealth Rock. (comma changed to a period) iIt can also check top-tier threats such as Excadrill, Terrakion, Landorus-T, and Lucario(maybe remove Lucario if you were refering to mega). Not only is its typing great but its ability as well: It also has a great ability in Poison Heal, (period changed to comma) With it allowing Gliscor can to regain one eighth of its HP after the end of each turn and once Toxic Orb has activateds, while making Gliscor is effectively immune to status. Despite facing competition from Landorus-T, (comma) it does have longevity setting it apart. Gliscor also has access to the newly buffed Knock Off making it a great team supporter and allowing to get past one of its common switch-ins, (comma) in Gengar. Its SubToxic set is still makes for a great stall Pokemon though it does have to get past a few road blocks in order to use it successfully. (this is explained in the set itself) All of these qualities put together make Gliscor a great support Pokemon overall. (put a sentence like this at the end of the overview)

    However, Gliscor has its fair share of problems as well. While its defense stat is fantastic, it falls somewhat flat due to a mediocre HP stat making its physical bulk good, but not outstanding. Also while its typing does give it some good resistances and immunities it still doesn't have enough resists to take on more threats. As mentioned above (getting a bit repetitive)Gliscor does face great competition with Landorus-T who sports a much greater aAttack stat and better physical bulk after factoring in iIntimidate. (period) which makes it much more suited to the current metagame. (this is debatable, and kind of repetitive) Gliscor also has very bad special bulk combined with the fact that it and is 4x weak to Ice attacks and weak to common Water and Ice-type attacks. Lastly, Gliscor has trouble facing new threats in the meta such as Mega Venusaur, Mega Scizor, Magic Guard Clefable, Greninja, and Manaphy. (this will be in check and counters anyway, put a sentence like what was at the end of the 1st paragraph)


    SubToxic
    ########
    Name: SubToxic
    Move 1: Substitute
    Move 2: Toxic
    Move 3: Protect
    Move 4: Earthquake
    Ability: Poison Heal
    Item: Toxic Orb
    Nature: Impish
    EVs: 244 HP / 32 Def / 232 Spe

    Moves
    ========

    With great typing and decent sSpeed, (comma) Gliscor can stall out many threats. Substitute is the main event most important move on this set as it allows Gliscor to scout for enemy attacks and stall against pokemon that are inflicted with Toxic status. Protect is there to recover enough HP from Poison Heal to keep setting up Substitutes and to stall out your opponents PP, which allows Gliscor to stall out pokemon that rely on low PP moves to take out Gliscor such as Rotom-W. Earthquake is an obligatory STAB move that allows to Gliscor to hit Steel and Poison-types that switch in on Toxic while also keeping it from being set-up bait. All of these moves are absolutely mandatory to this set's success so any other options would be inferior to the given moves listed as being without either Protect or Substitute makes stalling inefficient and being without Earthquake makes you set-up bait for Pokemon immune to Toxic.

    Set Details
    ========

    The given HP EVs make Gliscor's HP a multiple of eight allowing to gain back the maximum amount of health possible from Poison Heal. The sSpeed EVs allow Gliscor to outspeed maximum speed Naughty Mega Garchomp and below so you can stall out as many threats as possible,. (period changed to comma) Lastly while an Impish nature plus putting the remaining EVs in defense augments Gliscor's good physical bulk. Toxic Orb is mandatory to automatically activate Poison Heal, (comma) as without recovering an eighth of Gliscor's HP every turn, it would not be very effective at stalling.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    As with most defensive Pokemon, (comma) it should switch in on Pokemon that it walls and set up a sSubstitute on the forced switch to start stalling Pokemon out with Toxic. After a Pokemon has been inflicted with Toxic, it's best to alternate between Substitute and Protect in order to never lose HP while slowly making your opponent scream in rage as his Pokemon slowly faint from residual damage. Make sure that when you are Toxic stalling a faster Pokemon that you always alternate between Substitute and Protect only. Earthquake should only be used when finishing off weakened slower targets or when you are up against a Steel-type. It's best to not start Toxic stalling until bulky pokemon immune to Toxic are taken out. Watch out for Air Balloon users such as Heatran as they shut down this set completely. When facing up against a status user while your Toxic Orb has not yet been activated, use Substitute to block it. Lastly, when facing up against an opponent using low accuracy or low PP moves it's best to fish a for a miss and stall out PP so that you can obtain a free Substitute.

    Team Options
    ========
    This set has a lot of trouble in dealing with defensive Steel-types and Mega Venusaur due to it relying on Toxic to deal damage. Because of this, Gliscor appreciates powerful Fire-types such as Heatran, Talonflame, or both Mega Charizards to take out problematic Steel-types. As for teammateLatios that can take downeasily 2HKO Mega Venusaur, Latios can easily 2HKO with Life Orb Psyshock. Speaking ofIronically, Mega Venusaur, it also makes fora great partner for Gliscor since it can take on powerful special attackers that threaten it such as Keldeo, Thundurus, Manaphy, Greninja, and Mixed Aegislash. Gliscor also appreciates both Latios and Latias being removed so Pursuit trappers such as Tyranitar, Bisharp, and Aegislash are all great choices since they also have decent synergy with Gliscor.

    Defensive
    ########
    Name: Defensive
    Move 1: Earthquake
    Move 2: Stealth Rock / Taunt
    Move 3: Toxic / U-Turn / Knock Off
    Move 4: Protect / Roost
    Ability: Poison Heal
    Item: Toxic Orb
    Nature: Impish
    EVs: 244 HP / 204 Def / 60 Spe

    Moves
    ========
    Earthquake makeis for a good STAB so that allows Gliscor canto counter Pokemon weak to it such as Terrakion or Heatran. Stealth Rock is a great move on Gliscor as it has the bulk to set it up with ease and can set it up fromby forcing switches which isn't very hard thing to do. Taunt is a great alternative as it can prevent Pokemon from healing while paring very nicely with Toxic to stall out opposing defensive Pokemon by racking up residual damage very fast while also preventing set-up. U-Turn is another great move on Gliscor that can allow to act as a pivot making the user scout out for switch-ins while also making ideal match-ups. Knock Off also gets a mention due it's incredible utility in removing a Pokemon's item while hitting Gengar on the switch. The last slot is up to preference on what means you want for recovery. Protect allows you to scout out your opponents next move and switch accordingly while Roost gives Gliscor incredible longevity making it recover 62.5% of its HP at the end of each turn. Stone Edge makes for another decent option that allows Gliscor to hit Mega Pinsir and Mega Charizard Y, but Gliscor makes for a shaky check to Mega Pinsir and Mega Charizard Y forces it out so you can only really catch these Pokemon on the switch with it.

    Set Details
    ========
    The given EV spread gives Gliscor very good physical bulk allowing it to take on multitude of Pokemon. 244 HP EVs are once again used to recover the max amount of HP from Poison Heal. The sSpeed EVs allows Gliscor to outspeed max sSpeed positive nature Aegislash. The rest is put into defense for great physical bulk. Toxic Orb is also once again mandatory to automatically activate Poison Heal.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    This set gives more emphasis on supporting your teammates rather than stalling. It's best to come in on resisted attacks to take hits for other teammates and set up Stealth Rock on a forced switch/, against a Pokemon that cannot deal heavy damage to Gliscor. Alternatively you can use U-Turn on predicted switches to get a good match up while letting a teammate come in unscathed. Make sure to keep healthy throughout the match especeially if Gliscor can check/counter a big threat to your team. Be weary of certain physical attackers that may pack an Ice move as it will heavily damage if not outright KO Gliscor from full health. Examples include Life Orb Terrakion with Hidden Power Ice or Landorus-T. Also be weary of Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and Bulky Mega Scizor as the former two can set up hazards on you while the latter can set-up with ease however using U-Turn predicting these threats to come in saves Gliscor from being used as set-up bait.

    Team Options
    ========
    Heatran and Mega Venusaur make a great core on stall teams only fearing Kyurem-B from threatening them all. Special walls such as Chansey and Clefable pair well with Gliscor as they provide great synergy while covering both sides of the spectrum. Tyranitar and Bisharp also make decent teammates as Gliscor resists their 4x weakness to Fighting and all of them can pPursuit trap Latios and Latias which could otherwise give Gliscor problems. This set is meant to fill any gaps that may be on your team; not necessarily a set you build your team around, making a it a great "glue for a teamon".

    Other Options
    ########
    Gliscor has some other offensive options at its disposal. Ice Fang can be used to hit things 4x weak to it such as opposing Gliscor, Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Dragonite. Facade is pretty powerful after being poisoned to hit Pokemon such as Rotom-W, but doesn't help with Steel types and STAB Earthquake out-damages it. Stone Edge is useful for hitting Talonflame, Mega Pinsir, and Mega Charizard Y however Gliscor cannot switch in on the ladder two. Swords Dance plus Acrobatics is another option to attempt a sweep, but is walled by Rotom-W, Zapdos, and Thundurus, and Flying Gem is unavailable. Fling plus Acrobatics with a Toxic Orb can be used, but you are better off with Toxic instead. A set consisting of Earthquake, Substitute, Baton Pass, and Taunt is another option for Gliscor that can be used on full Baton Pass teams, but is somewhat outclassed on these teams in general. Finally, a set with Defog, Stealth Rock, Roost, and Earthquake can be used, but there are better users of Defog and Gliscor has to forgo Poison Heal to use it.

    Checks & Counters
    ########

    **Water-Types**: Water and Ice-Types that can outspeed in particulaGliscor force Gliscorit out. Such examples include Greninja, Manaphy, Keldeo, and Choice Scarf Rotom-W. Calm Mind Suicune can also set-up on Gliscor has it can cure status and heal HP with Rest. Swift Swim Pokemon such as Kabutops, Ludicolo, and Kingdra can force Gliscor out though neither appreciate Toxic wearing them down. Starmie can outspeed and OHKO while curing itself of Toxic status with Natural Cure, however Knock Off can severely damage it.

    **Strong Special Attackers**: Mega Charizard Y can OHKO with sun-boosted Fire Blast. Mega Gardevoir can Hyper Voice through Substitute and OHKO after Stealth Rock damage. Thundurus and Deoxys-S with Hidden Power Ice and Ice Beam respectively can also easily take out Gliscor.

    **Pokemon immune to Toxic**: Mega Scizor with Roost can set-up on Gliscor all day long while Gliscor can barely do anything in return. Gengar shuts down SubToxic, but must watch out for Knock Off. Magic Guard Clefable takes no damage from Toxic and can easily take Earthquakes, however Unaware variants fall to Toxic. Lastly, Air Balloon users such as Heatran or Aegislash can temporarily check Gliscor if it isn't behind a Substitute.

    **Faster Taunt Users**: Faster users of Taunt can easily shut down any Gliscor set. Crobat can Taunt Gliscor and is immune to Toxic and Earthquake making it the perfect counter to SubToxic. Prankster Taunt users such as Thundurus, Sableye, and Tornadus shut down Gliscor while Gliscor cannot do much to any of them in return. Timid Deoxys-D and Deoxys-S also shut down Gliscor with a speedy Taunt.

    **Infiltrator and Sound-Based Moves**: Again Crobat gets a very special mention due to being immune to Toxic and Earthquake while having Taunt and can go through its Substitutes with Brave Bird. Sylveon can use Hyper Voice through Substitute while having Heal Bell to cure it of Toxic status. Chandelure and Noivern can both go through Gliscor's Substitute while hitting Gliscor on its weak special defense.

    **Ice-Types**: Ice Types in general can be problematic towards Gliscor. Mamoswine and Cloyster both have access to Icicle Spear to go through Gliscor's Substitute and KO it. Kyurem-B can outspeed and threaten with STAB Ice Beam while also being able to Substitute on a predicted Toxic. Weavile can outspeed and OHKO with ease.
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2014
  21. Hootie

    Hootie
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2012
    Messages:
    674
    I implemented most of your changes, but I didn't want to butcher my overview too much I made it clear that SubToxic has more problems than last gen. Also when I was going through your check I noticed some other mistakes I made that you missed such as capitalization on "defense". Overall this was a good amcheck.
  22. Funen1

    Funen1

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2011
    Messages:
    23
    Amateur check of my own. Please consider these edits too.

    Additions
    Deletions
    Comments, with selected sections enclosed in []

    Amateur check (open)

    Overview
    ########

    Gliscor remains a top defensive threat in today's metagame. WithIt has a great defensive typing that gives it a resistance to Fighting, and immunity to Ground, while also making it neutral to Stealth Rock, allowing it to check top-tier threats such as Excadrill, Terrakion, Landorus-T, and Lucario. In addition to its great typing, it has access to the coveted Poison Heal allowing, which lets Gliscor to regain one eighth of its HP once Toxic Orb has activated, while making Gliscor and makes it effectively immune to status. Despite facing competition from Landorus-T, it does haveGliscor's main advantage is its longevity setting it apart. Gliscor also has access to the newly buffed Knock Off making, which makes it a great team supporter and allowings it to get past one of its common switch-ins, Gengar. Its SubToxic set returns once again and still makes fGliscor a great stall Pokemon, though it does have to get past more road blocks this Generation than it did before in order to use it successfullymany new threats make it less effective than before.

    However, Gliscor has its fair share of problems as well. While its dDefense stat is fantastic, it falls somewhat flat due tois mitigated by a mediocre HP stat mak, leaving its physical bulk good, but not outstanding. Also, while its typing does give it some good resistances and immunities, it still doesn't have enough resistances to take on morea substantial number of threats. As mentioned above, Gliscor does faces competition with Landorus-T whofor a team slot, as it sports a much greater Attack stat and better physical bulk after factoring in Intimidate [which makes it much more suited to the current metagame]If you really want to leave in this phrase, please put a comma before "which".. To further put the nail in the coffin, Gliscor also has very bad special bulk and is weak to common Water- and Ice-type attacks. Despite these shortcomings, Gliscor has a lot ofmany great qualities tohat make it a great support Pokemon overall.


    SubToxic
    ########
    Name: SubToxic
    Move 1: Substitute
    Move 2: Toxic
    Move 3: Protect
    Move 4: Earthquake
    Ability: Poison Heal
    Item: Toxic Orb
    Nature: Impish
    EVs: 244 HP / 32 Def / 232 Spe

    Moves
    ========

    With its great typing and decent Speed, Gliscor can stall out many threats. Substitute is the most important move on this set as it allows Gliscor to scout for enemy attacks and stall against pPokemon that are inflicted with Toxic. Protect is there to recover enoughhelps Gliscor recover more HP from Poison Heal to keep setting, letting it continue to set up Substitutes and to. It also helps you stall out your opponents PP, which allows Gliscor to stall out pokemona critical tactic for defeating Pokemon such as Rotom-W that rely on low PP moves to take out Gliscor such as Rotom-W. Earthquake is an obligatory STAB move that allows to Gliscor tocan hit Steel- and Poison-types that switch in on Toxic while also keep, preventing it from being [set-up]When "setup" is used as an adjective, spell it without a hyphen. bait. All of these moves are absolutely mandatory to this set's success sofor this set to succeed; any other options would be inferior to the given moves listed as being w. Without either Protect or Substitute makes, stalling becomes very inefficient, and being without Earthquake, [Gliscor becomakes you]Use "you" only to refer to the battler, not to a Pokemon. set-up bait for Pokemon immune to Toxic.

    Set Details
    ========

    The given HP EVs make Gliscor's HP a multiple of eight allowing toso it can gain back the maximum amount of health possible from Poison Heal. The Speed EVs allow Gliscor to outspeed maximum sSpeed Naughty Mega Garchomp and below so you can stall out as many threats as possible, while an Impish nature plus putting t. The remaining EVs go into Defense, and an Impish nature augments Gliscor's good physical bulk. Toxic Orb is mandatory to automatically activate Poison Heal, as without recovering an eighth of Gliscor's HP every turn, it would not be very effective at stalling without this added recovery.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    As with most defensive Pokemon it, Gliscor should switch in on Pokemon that it walls and, set up a Substitute on the forced switch toas it switches out, and start stalling Pokemon out with Toxic. After a Pokemon has been inflicted with Toxic, it's best to alternate between Substitute and Protect in order to never lose HP while making your opponent scream in rage as their; thanks to Poison Heal, Gliscor will lose no net HP as the opposing Pokemon slowly faints from residual damage. Make sure that when you are Toxic stalling a faster Pokemon that you always alternate betweenonly use Substitute and Protect only. Earthquake should only be used when finishing off weakened slower targets or when you are up against a Steel-type. It's best to not start Toxic stalling until bulky pPokemon immune to Toxic are taken out. Watch out for Air Balloon users such as Heatran, as they shut down this set completely. WhenIf you're facing up against a status user while yourbefore Toxic Orb has not yet been activated, Substitute or Protect to block ithe opponent's attack. Lastly, when facing an opponent usingthat uses low accuracy or low PP moves, it's best to fish for a miss and stall out the move's PP so that you can obtain a free Substitute.

    Team Options
    ========

    This set has a lot of trouble dealing with defensive Steel-types and Mega Venusaur due to relyingas it relies on Toxic to deal damage. Because of this Gliscor appreciates powerful Fire-types such as Heatran, Talonflame, orand both Mega Charizard formes to take out problematic Steel-types. Latios can easily 2HKO Mega Venusaur with Life Orb Psyshock. Ironically, Mega Venusaur also makes for a great partner for Gliscor since it can take on powerful special attackers that threaten itGliscor such as Keldeo, Thundurus, Manaphy, Greninja, and Mmixed Aegislash. Gliscor also appreciates bothPokemon that can trap and KO Latios and Latias being removed so Pursuit trappers such aswith Pursuit. Tyranitar, Bisharp, and Aegislash are all great choices since they also have decent synergy with Gliscor.


    Defensive
    ########
    Name: Defensive
    Move 1: Earthquake
    Move 2: Stealth Rock / Taunt
    Move 3: Toxic / [U-Turnturn]The "t" in the move "U-turn" is not capitalized. / Knock Off
    Move 4: Protect / Roost
    Ability: Poison Heal
    Item: Toxic Orb
    Nature: Impish
    EVs: 244 HP / 204 Def / 60 Spe

    Moves
    ========

    Earthquake is a good STAB that allows Gliscor to countermove for defeating Pokemon weak to itGround such as Terrakion or Heatran. Stealth Rock is a great move on Gliscor as it has the bulk to set it up with ease and by forcingon resisted attacks or forced switches. However, Taunt is a greatood alternative as it can prevents opposing Pokemon from healing while paringor setting up. Taunt also pairs very nicely with Toxic to stall out opposing defensive Pokemon by racking up residual damage very fast while also preventing set-up. U-Tquickly. U-turn is another great move on Gliscor that can allow to act as a pivot making the user, letting it scout out for switch-ins while also making ideal match-upsand keep momentum in your favor. Knock Off also gets a mention due it'for its incredible utility in removing a Pokemon's item while hittingand ability to cripple Gengar on the switch. The last slot is up to preference on what means you wantoffers two different methods for recovery. Protect allows you to scout lets you scout your opponent's next move and switch accordingly, while Roost gives Gliscor incredible longevity making it recover 62.5% of its HP at the end of each turnrestores a massive 62.5% of Gliscor's HP after Poison Heal. Stone Edge makes for anotheris a decent option that allows Gliscor to hitfor dealing with Mega Pinsir and Mega Charizard Y, but Gliscor makes for a shaky check to Mega Pinsir and Mega Charizard Y forces it out sosince both Pokemon fare very well against Gliscor, you can only really catch these Pokemon on the switch with it.

    Set Details
    ========

    The given EV spread gives Gliscor very good physical bulk allowing it to take onfor taking on a multitude of Pokemon. 244 HP EVs are used toso Poison Heal recovers the max amount of HP from Poison Heal. The Speed EVs allowslet Gliscor to outspeed max Speed positive nature Aegislash. The rest is put into Defense for greatto improve its physical bulk. Once again, Toxic Orb is also once again mandatory to automatically activate Poison Heal.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    This set gives more emphasizes on supporting your teammates rather than stalling. It's best to come in on resisted attacks to take hits for other teammatesaimed at your other Pokemon and set up Stealth Rock either on a forced switch/ or against a Pokemon that cannot deal heavy damage to Gliscor. Alternatively, you can use U-Tturn on predicted switches to get a good match up while letting a teammate come in unscathed. Make sure to keep Gliscor healthy throughout the match, especially if Gliscor can checkit checks a big threat to your team. Be wary of certain physical attackers that may pack an Ice-type move, as it will heavily damage if not outright OHKO Gliscor from full health. E; examples include Life Orb Terrakion and Landorus-T with Hidden Power Ice or Landorus-T. Also, be weary of Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and Bulky Mega Scizor as the former; the first two can set up hazards on youGliscor while the latter can set-up with ease however using U-Turn predictingboost its Attack with ease. However, a properly predicted U-turn prevents these threats to come in savesfrom using Gliscor from being used as set-up bait.

    Team Options
    ========

    Heatran and Mega Venusaur make a great core on stall teams only fearingthat is only threatened by Kyurem-B from threatening them all. Special walls such as Chansey and Clefable pair well with Gliscor as they provide great synergy while covering both sides of the spectrumand cover up Gliscor's weaker Special Defense. Tyranitar and Bisharp also make decent teammates, as Gliscor resists their 4x weakness to Fighting and allwhile both of them can Pursuit trap Latios and Latias which could otherwise give Gliscor problemsith Pursuit. This set is meant to fill any gaps that may be on your team;, not necessarily a set you build your team around.


    Other Options
    ########

    Gliscor has some other offensive options at its disposal. Ice Fang can be used to hit things 4x weak to ithits Pokemon 4x weak to Ice such as opposing Gliscor, Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Dragonite. Facade is pretty powerful after beingbecomes fairly strong after Gliscor is poisoned to hit Pokemon such as Rotom-W, but it doesn't help with Steel against Steel-types and STAB Earthquake out-damages itgenerally deals more damage. Stone Edge is useful for hitting Talonflame, Mega Pinsir, and Mega Charizard Y however, but Gliscor cannot switch in on the latterst two. Swords Dance plus Acrobatics is another option to attempt a sweep, but is walled byfor sweeping, but Rotom-W, Zapdos, and Thundurus wall it and Flying Gem is currently unavailable. Fling plus AcrobaticsYou can use Fling with a Toxic Orb can be usedalongside Acrobatics, but you are better off withusing Toxic instead. AGliscor can run a set consisting of Earthquake, Substitute, Baton Pass, and Taunt is another option for Gliscor that can be used on full Baton Pass teams, but it is somewhat outclassed as a Substitute passer on these teams in general. Finally, Gliscor can use a support set with Defog, Stealth Rock, Roost, and Earthquake can be used, but there are better users of Defog and Gliscor has to forgo Poison Heal to use it.


    Checks & Counters
    ########

    **Water-Ttypes**: Water [and Ice-Types]The reference to Ice-types here was removed because you have a section on Ice-types below and no Ice-types are listed in this section. that can-types that outspeed Gliscor force it out. Such examples includesuch as Greninja, Manaphy, Keldeo, and Choice Scarf Rotom-W can force it out. Calm Mind Suicune can also set- up on Gliscor has it can cure status and healrestore HP with Rest. Swift Swim Pokemon such as Kabutops, Ludicolo, and Kingdra can force Gliscor out, though neitherone of these appreciates Toxic wearing them down. Starmie can outspeed and OHKO while curing itselfGliscor while getting rid of Toxic status with Natural Cure,; however, Knock Off can severely damages it.

    **Strong Special Attackers**: Mega Charizard Y can OHKO Gliscor with a sun-boosted Fire Blast. Mega Gardevoir can's Hyper Voice hits through Substitute and OHKOes Gliscor after Stealth Rock damage. Thundurus and Deoxys-S with Hidden Power Ice and Ice Beam, respectively, can also easily take out Gliscor.

    **Pokemon immune to Toxic**: Mega Scizor with Roost can set-easily set up on Gliscor all day long, while Gliscor can barely do anything in return. Gengar shuts down SubToxic, but it must watch out for Knock Off. Magic Guard Clefable takes no damage from Toxic and can easily take Earthquakes, howeverbut Unaware variants fall to Toxic. Lastly, Air Balloon users such as Heatran or Aegislash can temporarily check Gliscor if it isn't behind a Substitute.

    **Faster Taunt Users**: Faster users of Taunt can easily shut down any Gliscor set. Crobat can Taunt Gliscor and is immune to Toxic and Earthquake, making it the perfect counter to the SubToxic set. Prankster Taunt users such as Thundurus, Sableye, and Tornadus shut down Gliscor whiletop Gliscor cold, as Gliscor cannot do much to any of them in return. Timid Deoxys-D and Deoxys-S also shut down Gliscor with atheir speedy Taunts.

    **Infiltrator and Sound-Based Moves**: AgainOnce again, Crobat gets a very special mention due to being immune to Toxic and Earthquake while having Taunt and can goas it can Brave Bird Gliscor through its Substitutes with Brave Bird with its Infiltrator ability. Sylveon can use Hyper Voiceattack through Substitute while havingith Hyper Voice and has Heal Bell to cure it of Toxic status. Chandelure and Noivern can both go throughalso have Infiltrator to get past Gliscor's Substitute while hittingand can hit Gliscor on its weaker special defense.

    **Ice-Types**: Ice Ttypes**: Ice-types in general can be problematic towards Gliscor. Mamoswine and Cloyster both have access to Icicle Spear to go through Gliscor's Substitute and KO it. Kyurem-B can outspeed and threaten with STAB Ice Beam while also being able to Substitute on a predicted Toxic. Weavile can outspeed and OHKO Gliscor with ease.
    Electrolyte likes this.
  23. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte I dont get cute, I get drop dead gorgeous
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,246
    OK stamping Funen1's amcheck, with just these few minor tweaks (to be implemented after his changes):
    ADD
    REMOVE
    (COMMENTS)

    Overview P1:
    "It has a great defensive typing that gives it a resistance to Fighting, immunity to Ground, while also making it neutral and neutrality to Stealth Rock, allowing it to check top-tier threats such as Excadrill, Terrakion, Landorus-T, and Lucario."

    SubToxic:
    Moves:
    "It also helps you Gliscor stall out your the opponent's PP, a critical tactic for defeating Pokemon such as Rotom-W that rely on low PP moves to take out Gliscor."
    (try not to refer to the reader in analyses)

    [​IMG]
    GP 1/2


    Nice job, Funen1, you caught a lot of great errors.
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2014
  24. Hootie

    Hootie
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2012
    Messages:
    674
    Can you please add in a copy and paste of that check? That is way too much to edit...
  25. Berserker Lord

    Berserker Lord unreliable analysis writer.

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,220
    To be honest, it would be a better idea to not be lazy and actually implement the entire check manually. It really isn't that hard to do, and it shouldn't take too long to do if you actually take the initiative. It also helps because you yourself could find errors in your analysis that you can fix and and save the GP checkers a little bit of hassle.
    Electrolyte, Arkian and Magcargo like this.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)