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Pokémon Gogoat

Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by Shroomisaur, Oct 17, 2013.

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  1. Shroomisaur

    Shroomisaur Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.

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    #673 - Gogoat
    How does this badass goat not have a thread yet!?

    [​IMG]
    Type
    : Grass

    Base Stats: 123 / 100 / 62 / 97 / 81 / 68 (via Serebii, not yet confirmed on Smogon)

    Abilities: Sap Sipper / Grass Pelt (Hidden - Boosts defense in the field effect Grassy Terrain)

    Level-Up Moves:
    Level 1: Tackle
    Level 1: Growth
    Level ?: Vine Whip
    Level 9: Tail Whip
    Level 12: Leech Seed
    Level 13: Razor leaf
    Level 16: Worry Seed
    Level 20: Synthesis
    Level 22: Take Down
    Level 26: Bulldoze
    Level 30: Seed Bomb
    Level 32: Bulk Up
    Level 40: Double Edge
    Level 47: Horn Leech
    Level 55: Leaf Blade
    Level 58: Milk Drink
    Level 60: Earthquake
    Level 65: Aerial Ace

    TM & HM Compatibility:
    TM05 Roar
    TM06 Toxic
    TM08 Bulk Up
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM17 Protect
    TM18 Rain Dance
    TM21 Frustration
    TM22 Solar Beam
    TM26 Earthquake
    TM27 Return
    TM28 Dig
    TM31 Brick Break
    TM32 Double Team
    TM40 Aerial Ace
    TM42 Facade
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM48 Round
    TM53 Energy Ball
    TM66 Payback
    TM67 Retaliate
    TM68 Giga Impact
    TM78 Bulldoze
    TM80 Rock Slide
    TM86 Grass Knot
    TM87 Swagger
    TM88 Sleep Talk
    TM90 Substitute
    TM93 Wild Charge
    TM94 Rock Smash
    TM96 Nature Power
    TM100 Confide
    HM03 Surf
    HM04 Strength

    Egg Moves:
    ???

    Analysis:

    Gogoat was one of the earliest Pokemon revealed in Pokemon X and Y, and as a single evolution from an early-game Pokemon, most people probably didn't expect much from our new grassy goat. However, Gogoat packs very well-rounded stats and an incredibly diverse movepool (in case you couldn't tell as you scrolled down the list) which makes Gogoat stand out from the crowd.

    Being a Grass-type doesn't exactly set hearts aflutter, being weak to common Fire and Ice moves, as well as U-Turns, Brave Birds, and the newly buffed Poison attacks. However, Grass does grant very useful resistances to ever-present Water, Ground, Electric, and an Immunity to Grass-type moves with Sap-Sipper. Gogoat has the stats to make use of these resistances. A big surprise is Gogoat's giant HP stat, and combined with his defenses, Gogoat's 123/62/81 bulk is respectable, especially on the special side. Alongside these solid defenses, Gogoat has decent 100/97 mixed attacking stats, but his poor base 68 speed limits his offensive options.

    It's not all bad though, as Gogoat's movepool is so vast that it can run many different options. Gogoat has tons of recovery methods to pull off a bulky set. Leech Seed can harass and its reliable recovery in Milk Drink* will keep Gogoat Going! Gogoat can also run an effective boosting set with his excellent STAB Horn Leech for even more sustain. Let's take a look at some of our favorite Gogoat's options: *Yes even Male Gogoat learns this. Don't question Gamefreak logic!


    Potential Movesets:

    Fortified Milk

    Gogoat @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sap-Sipper
    Nature: Careful
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpDef / 4 Def
    - Horn Leech / Leaf Blade
    - Rock Slide / Earthquake / Payback
    - Bulk Up
    - Substitute / Milk Drink

    Apparently Gogoat's milk has lots of protein! Gogoat can use Bulk Up to boost his moderate Attack and poor Defense to respectable levels after just a few boosts. Combined with full investment in its naturally high special defenses, Gogoat will be tough to take down once it gets going. This is further complemented by the fact that Gogoat will use boosted STAB Horn Leech to restore its HP.

    As if that wasn't enough, Gogoat's secret weapon is Milk Drink, which can help Gogoat through when low on boosts, or when in critical health. If you feel that Leftovers & Horn Leech recovery are enough, Substitute can be used to scout and block status. The alternative is to rely on Milk Drink, which would allow Leaf Blade to be used for more power. The second moveslot is Gogoat's coverage move of choice, and there are tons of options, but the best ones are listed. Each of these moves allows Gogoat to hit Steel-types that would wall his STAB, with Payback being my preferred option for excellent neutral coverage.

    Offensive Bulk Up
    Gogoat @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sap-Sipper
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 180 HP / 252 Atk / 76 Spe
    - Horn Leech
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Bulk Up

    With fully invested Attack, this set aims to gain power much more quickly when using Bulk Up. Gogoat will be vulnerable to status and being worn down, but by dropping a utility move, Gogoat can run both Earthquake and Rock Slide for coverage to deal with many more threats. 76 Speed EVs allows Gogoat to outrun uninvested Heatran and KO with Earthquake, although more EVs can be added to outpace other threats.

    3 Attacks GoMixedGoat!
    Gogoat @ Life Orb
    Ability: Sap-Sipper
    Nature: Naughty / Lonely
    EVs: 100 HP / 252 Atk / 136 SpA / 20 Spe
    - Horn Leech
    - Rock Slide / Earthquake / Payback
    - Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice
    - Milk Drink

    This set forgoes boosting and in favor of hitting hard right off the bat and removing Gogoat's typical counters. With maximum attack investment and Life Orb, Gogoat's STAB Horn Leech will hit quite hard while also offsetting the LO recoil. The second moveslot is again the coverage move of your choice, but the third slot is the big surprise. Gogoat's surprisingly high base 97 Special Attack can be put to use with Hidden Power to destroy would-be counters. Milk Drink in the final slot keeps Gogoat healthy throughout the match.

    With 136 SpA EVs and a Life Orb, Hidden Power Fire is guaranteed to OHKO on 248/8 Scizor, and guarantees a 2HKO on Ferrothorn and Skarmory. 20 Speed EVs outpaces uninvested Skarmory, and the remainder are put into HP to boost survivability.

    Conclusion:

    Gogoat is one badass goat, with solid stats and so many recovery options you'll need both hands to count them all! A sub-seed set could be used, but there are plenty of Grass-types that could pull it off better. Gogoat's typing leaves makes it often overlooked, but there is plenty of potential here. Gogoat makes an excellent tank or bulky booster in a Fire-Water-Grass core.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2013
  2. Ozball

    Ozball

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    Been waiting for this thread! (I'm new to competitive battling so didn't feel comfortable making it myself)

    I ran Gogoat in my playthrough and loved his bulkiness. While I do love leftovers on it, what other items could he run defensively?

    Also would a coverage damage dealer be feasible to take advantage of the immense move variety? Something like:
    Leaf Blade
    Earthquake
    Aerial Ace / Rock Slide
    Bulk-Up
  3. Soda

    Soda

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    Hey now, some males do lactate. Yep, this is a thing.

    Gogoat looks really fun, Bulk Up indeed looks like one of the best sets it can use with that odd stat distribution (so much wasted Spec. Attk). Sap Sipper is a great ability for him though and I think there will be plenty of opportunities to take advantage of it. Gogogogogoggoat! Good thread man. :)
  4. Shroomisaur

    Shroomisaur Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.

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    Heh, but I just had to say it. Glad you like the thread! As for that 97 base SpA (assuming that number is correct): it looks wasted on paper, yes. But Gogoat does learn one handy move that will take advantage of it: Hidden Power.

    Here's my GoMixedGoat LO + 3 Attacks Set:

    Gogoat @ Life Orb
    Ability: Sap-Sipper
    Nature: Brave / Naughty
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    - Horn Leech
    - Payback / Earthquake
    - Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice
    - Milk Drink

    This set forgoes boosting to hit hard right off the bat. Dropping special defense for max Attack and LO allows Gogoat to deal good damage with Horn Leech, and the healing can offset the recoil. Payback or Earthquake for coverage, and the fourth moveslot remains Milk Drink for extra longevity. The third moveslot is the real shocker, so make use of that 97 SpA by selecting the Hidden Power of your choice! Even with 60 BP and no investment the calcs are great:

    0 SpA Life Orb Gogoat HP Fire vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Scizor: 265-312 (77.25 - 90.96%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    0 SpA Life Orb Gogoat HP Fire vs. 252 HP / 208 SpD Ferrothorn: 166-198 (47.15 - 56.25%) -- 75.39% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    0 SpA Life Orb Gogoat HP Fire vs. 224 HP / 32 SpD Skarmory: 143-169 (43.73 - 51.68%) -- 72.66% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    0 SpA Life Orb Gogoat HP Ice vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Salamence: 291-348 (87.91 - 105.13%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    0 SpA Life Orb Gogoat HP Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 255-302 (71.22 - 84.35%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    As you can see, a lot of would-be counters will get smashed by HP. Thoughts?
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2013
  5. Typhlito

    Typhlito One Duck Hunting Dawg
    is an Artist

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    if a fire move isnt able to 1hko a scizor, its probably in trouble. maybe you could give it just enough evs for its hp fire to ohko it or else scizor will ko it back with u-turn/bug bite if given the chance.
  6. Shroomisaur

    Shroomisaur Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.

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    Well of course, those calcs were more of a "proof of concept" rather than focusing on a specific threat. If you need to beat Scizor, you need to run Naughty (so you still outspeed) and 136 EVs to guarantee the OHKO. This would also guarantee 2HKO on Ferrothorn.

    Edit: If you want to beat these guys, run this spread. Outspeeds Skarmory and guarantees OHKO/2HKOs.
    Gogoat @ Life Orb
    Ability: Sap-Sipper
    Nature: Naughty / Lonely
    EVs: 100 HP / 252 Atk / 136 SpA / 20 Spe
    - Horn Leech
    - Payback / Earthquake
    - Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice
    - Milk Drink
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2013
  7. Jozan87

    Jozan87

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    Caught an Adamant Gogoat in game and thought I would give it a go. I didn't go with HP Evs as I wanted Horn Leech to have a bigger impact on healing. EDIT: and Wish passes.

    This is the set up:

    Gogoat Leftovers
    Ability: Sap Sipper
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Def / 4 SpDef
    - Horn Leech
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Bulk Up

    Not the best 'mon by any stretch compared to stars like Aegislash (and Hawlucha in my experience) but some testing in Showdown showed it can take a hit or force a switch and Bulk up then have good sweep coverage and recovery. Maybe it was just the element of surprise/unknown about it but it often played a big part in the team's offense.
  8. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    I'd have to say Gogoat is probably one of the most unexpected stat spreads in the entirety of x/y, at least to me (was expecting it to be faster and not even close to that bulky lol), i'd have to agree with the OP that Gogoat's stats are surprisingly good for a two stage early game Pokemon, and i think it actually has a decent amount of potential in the lower tiers (not sure about upper tiers since it has *some* coverage issues and its Attack stat isn't the greatest pre boost, although i guess the latter point is moot since Gogoat is bulky enough to grab Bulk Up or two). Has anyone thought about trying Substitute on Gogoat somewhere? Substitute gives Gogoat something to protect it from status against foes slower than it, and can serve as a neat cushion to allow Gogoat to get more Bulk Ups too. Gogoat's Substitutes are pretty beefy thanks to its solid defenses (they have 101 hp too!) so after a few Bulk Ups they could last quite a while. Personally if i were to use Substitute Gogoat i'd try it out over Milk Drink. Reliable recovery is nice but so is the utility of Substitute, especially for dodging status problems which are hated by Bulk Up+Milk Drink goat, and Gogoat could restore any hp lost either through direct damage or Substitute by using Horn Leech. I guess you could run a mono attacker with both Sub and Milk Drink too, but tbh Grass is pretty bad as a mono coverage type so i don't think that's the best idea :s. So, thoughts on Substitute+Bulk Up Gogoat, is it a viable option?

    EDIT: Btw Gogoat's base hp and attack are exactly base 123 and 100 respectively, tested ingame myself with a 31 hp 31 attack iv gogoat
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2013
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  9. Shroomisaur

    Shroomisaur Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.

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    I agree, Gogoat looked to be much faster than 68 Speed, but that base HP and overall balanced 531 BST was a nice surprise.

    Substitute is certainly something I've been trying myself, and it definitely has advantages over Milk Drink on just about any Gogoat set (it could even run Sub-seed). As you said, the Bulk Up set in particular loves the status blocking ability and would still have a boosted Horn Leech for recovery. The expense of having a more difficult time when unboosted makes it a fair trade. I'm making Sub a slash on that set!

    I can't recommend a Horn Leech mono-attacker though, Gogoat needs a coverage move because mono-Grass is awful and Gogoat's offense is mediocre.

    I'm curious to hear more opinions, it seems like Gogoat is one of the most overlooked new arrivals in XY!
  10. Monte Cristo

    Monte Cristo Shots fired

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    Any of you guys remember CMRoarCune? well fuck it you didn't play GSC did you, regardless, here comes one of my favorite gogoat sets so far:

    [​IMG]
    > Roserade (Gogoat) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sap-Sipper
    Nature: Careful
    EVs: 236 HP / 102 SpDef / 170 Spe
    - Horn Leech
    - Bulk Up
    - Roar
    - Milk Drink

    Meet MonoGoat, or as I like to call it, greater than roserade, this version of grassgoat attempts to beat other slow set up sweepers like other BU goats while setting up itself, with this things huge bulk after a couple of boosts, reliable recovery and (P)hazing, this thing is surely a thing not to fuck around with. I would type more, but this is all that needs to be said really, it can also phaze skarmory before it can phaze you and it can phaze spikers before they can get 2+ layers.
  11. Hollywood

    Hollywood she's thin, she's blonde, she says "wow" a lot
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    Other Metas Leader

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    If you guys could stop derailing this thread so much, that'd be swell. Greninja has nothing to do with it.

    Also, I don't care for the mono-attacking Gogoat set. You mentioned that it can set up against other bulky sweepers including Gogoat itself, but it can't touch Gogoat because Sap Sipper. Mono-Grass coverage is pretty horrible as well. The best way to use Gogoat to me would be an offensive Bulk Up set, probably something like max HP / max Atk with some Speed creep, with Bulk Up / Horn Leech / Rock Slide / Earthquake. Milk Drink could be used over a coverage move, but Horn Leech already offers recovery, and missing out on either Flying- or Steel-types without both coverage moves is really unappealing to me.
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  12. Shroomisaur

    Shroomisaur Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.

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    My goodness, I leave the thread saying "I'm curious for more Gogoat opinions", and when I return there's nothing but rumor nonsense. Thanks for getting everything back on track and sharing your thoughts!

    I like the look of your offensive Bulk Up set, it plays very differently than the defensive one I have in the OP. Gogoat definitely has 4MSS. Payback is listed in the defensive Bulk Up set because it offers the best 2-move coverage available, but Gogoat would love QuakeEdge (err, Slide in this case) with an offensive set. I'll add this to the OP!

    While Roar is certainly an option on any Gogoat, mono-Grass just isn't plausible (as I said in the post that apparently no one read). It just gets walled by everything, sadly.
    Monte Cristo likes this.
  13. Monte Cristo

    Monte Cristo Shots fired

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  14. Gammal

    Gammal

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    Ive been looking at the defensive set, and im planning on trying him out paired with skarmory and Tentacruel for my defensive core.
    Im just thinking that Sub over milk drink might be nice on an offensive set, but since horn leach offers horrible coverage, it might be hard to get that life back.
    To that end I would argue giving it milk drink instead of sub is a more viable set.

    If I would do a sub set it would be something in the line of:

    Substitute
    Leach seed
    Payback / Rock Slide / Earthquake^
    Protect

    This set forgoes the usual offensive options while still offering a bit of damage.
    Its designed to stall out, with leach seed/sub/protect
    252hp/252sDef is preffered here, and it will work as a counter so many special users, such as the ninja frog-
    To get the most out of this set I would recommend having Stealth Roch and/or Toxic Spikes on the team.

    Thoughts on this?

    What coverage move would you argue for in any of these sets?
  15. EtherDrive

    EtherDrive

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    none of them tbh you should never give up stab (especially with recovery that uses your highest attacking stat) for a single coverage move for only a few types
  16. Zennistrad

    Zennistrad

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    I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Brick Break yet. While it may have low power, it's the only physical move Gogoat has that isn't completely walled by Ferrothorn.
  17. Shroomisaur

    Shroomisaur Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.

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    The reason I don't have a sub-seed set listed is because I really feel like that job could be done better by many other Pokemon. Gogoat's very slow, and while it has good overall defenses, it's all because of that huge HP stat which will diminish Leech Seed recovery. Running no STAB move, no offensive EVs, and no boosting move will leave Gogoat unable to deal any real damage. Leave sub-seeding to something like Whimsicott, Gourgeist, or Serperior!

    I originally had Brick Break as a slash for the coverage move, but I removed it when I realized that Ferrothorn can do absolutely nothing to Gogoat. Gogoat is immune to Leech Seed, Resists Power Whip, doesn't care about TWave, and as for Gyro Ball:

    0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (107 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 108-127 (24 - 28.22%)

    That's after just a single Bulk Up, so you can easily Milk Drink that off. With two Ferrothorn can't even break your subs, so either way you can easily boost in Ferrothorn's face and sweep with EQ or Payback.
  18. Grovyle78

    Grovyle78

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    I tried my luck at my own Gogoat set.

    Bulky-Offensive Gogoat
    Item: Leftovers
    Nature: Adamant/Neutral
    Evs: 252 HP, 252 Attack, 4 Def
    Movepool:
    Leech Horn
    Earthquake
    Rock Slide
    Bulk Up

    If you could leave any suggestions, that would be great.

    Payback can be used in Earthquake's or Rock Slide's place.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2013
  19. Jozan87

    Jozan87

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    I posted a similar set. I think the HP EVs are better served up Def and/ or SpDef as a HP stat that high will diminish the usefulness of Horn Leech, Leech Seed and Wish passes.

    Has anyone tried an Assault Vest Bulky Attacker or Special Wall? Horn Leech gives it great survivability.
  20. El Coqui

    El Coqui

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    I really really love Gogoat because of how it looks and its huge movepool but as a Sap Sipper he is easily beaten out by Sawsbuck who is faster, stronger, gets SwordsDance, and even without MilkDrink can recover fairy well with HornLeech. Also ive used Banded Girafferig with SapSipper to amazing effect and it as well is faster and stronger, gets SuckerPunch, WorkUp, and dual STAB, and most players dont realize its ability or typing.

    Now that im done bashing ill talk about Gogoats benefits: BulkUp, MilkDrink, HUGE movepool. If you want to make this guy work then there are 2/3 sets i say can work the best (each Physical):

    PowerGoat
    SapSipper LifeOrb
    Adamant 252att 200hp 56spd
    -LeafBlade
    -Earthquake
    -MilkDrink
    -DoubleEdge/Megahorn(dont remember if it gets it)

    Set-Up and Gogoat
    SapSipper Leftovers
    Jolly 128att 128hp 252spd
    -BulkUp
    -LeafBlade
    -RockSlide
    -Substitute

    Remember this guy will easily be NeverUsed and even then Sawsbuck and Giraf are also NU and do his job better. But these two sets should be decent enough for use especially since Sleep Powder, LeechSeed, and GigaDrain are super abundent in NU like in the othe tiers
  21. Shroomisaur

    Shroomisaur Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.

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    Actually, I already have that exact moveset with different EVs in the OP. Offensive Bulk Up is certainly a solid choice for Gogoat so my only suggestion is try it out and let us know how it performs!

    First of all, those sets you posted are already represented in the OP. Secondly, Sap-Sipper is only a small part of what makes Gogoat effective, so it's hilariously wrong to say that Sawsbuck (or Girafarig) do Gogoat's job better since Gogoat and Sawsbuck have different roles.

    ---

    Now as for other options, I think a lot of people are underestimating Gogoat's 97 base SpA. That's only 3 points lower than his attack, and it's higher than Jellicent, Gastrodon, and Tyranitar. Don't underestimate using Life Orb alongside Gogoat's special attacking options, as limited as they may be. Gogoat has Grass Knot which could potentially be its strongest move, Surf to deal with Fire-type threats, and of course Hidden Power to hit specific counters hard. HP Fire is listed in the OP for Scizor and steels, but any other move could be used as well depending on what you need to hit!
  22. El Coqui

    El Coqui

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    Different role as what? Sawsbuck id better offensively speaking. I admit bulk-up Goat would be fun as hell to use mixed with milk drink. Still i dont see Gogoat as being defensive or support unless i missed a major support set which id be willing to facepalm myself for not noticing. And mentioned Giraf since he is another Sap Sipper user but fine if thats a bad analogy then lets say Miltank who now almost never uses SapSipper on an offensive spread. It could play the roles of Gogoat is im not mistaken. Lord i dont wanna feel like im tearing Gogoat down because I do like the pokemon just think some things do it better
  23. Sonicstorm

    Sonicstorm

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    As an alternative build, I was thinking of something like this for my Gogoat:

    Gogoat@Rocky Helmet
    Nature: Brave
    252 HP/ 252 Atk/ 4 SpDef

    -Horn Leech
    -Earthquake
    -Bulk Up
    -Toxic/Milk Drink

    I was thinking that if I felt unsafe with the Horn Leech's ability to keep my HP up, I could sub Milk Drink for Toxic. Toxic is there to wear the enemy down, with Quake/Leech providing extra damage. As for the Helmet, I could switch it for Leftovers, but I thought this would be a nice change-up. Any criticism?
  24. L0rdL33t

    L0rdL33t

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    Didn't notice anyone talking about Grass Pelt very much. Looks more usefull than sap sipper. Who wants to use a grass move on gogoat anyways?
  25. nov

    nov

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    yeah its a 100%, Skiddo definitely doesn't get it then. Oh well, thanks for trying.

    I also kind of agree L0rdL33t. Now that grass is immune to spore and sleep powder, it really only takes away a resistance and replaces it with an immunity. Most people aren't using it for taking grass moves though. Grass is such bad coverage on its own that if your team doesn't have a way to deal with it you went horribly wrong somewhere. They are more interested in the potential power boost
  26. RabidChipmunk

    RabidChipmunk

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    Well the idea is you'd switch in on a Grass-type move being used against another of your teammates....

    I was thinking, do you think we could slash leaf blade as an option over horn leech on all the sets if it also has milk drink? Gogoat may appreciate the extra power if he already has a reliable form of recovery.
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