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Golden Age of The Horse (Currently 1749 on Suspect Ladder)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by pom, Jan 1, 2013.

  1. pom

    pom

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2013
    Messages:
    37
    Golden Age of The Horse
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Most of you probably won't get the theme with the Pokemon's names, but they are all song titles from one of my favorite albums, Beach Fossils by uh...Beah Fossils.

    Teambuilding!

    Show Hide
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    I wanted to use Keldeo for sure, and I recalled battling someone (ctann was their Showdown name I believe) who had this combo. I really like using Weavile anyway, so I jumped at the chance to have a pseudo-KeldTar combo while still using rain.

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    Clearly, rain meant Politoed. I first went with a specs set because of the appealing power to smash things.

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    I wanted another rain abuser, and there was no reason NOT to use this guy at the time. I also had never used him effectively before, and this could have been my last chance to do so in OU.

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    I liked Tornadus-T, but scarf Keldeo was giving me trouble, so I tacked this guy on instead. This is also when I realized I needed a scarfer, so I gave the duties to my trusty Toed.

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    Now I needed something to handle hazards, both setting and removing. Forretress is the best at doing both at the same time, so the choice seemed obvious. I was underwhelmed however, as even though he did many jobs, he didn't do any of them exceptionally well.

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    And so, I divided his roles onto two Pokemon. Xatu's access to U-Turn, reliable recovery, and all the support moves you can imagine make it one of my favorite Pokemon to use. Ferrothorn is simply an incredible Pokemon, especially under rain.
    Since Posting
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    Toxicroak was swapped for Celebi due to access to Perish Song and Stealth Rock, and Tentacruel replaced Xatu as my hazard remover.
    Final Edition (I think)
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    Lando-T replaces Celebi, despite how well Celebi performed, thanks to the offensive threats it counters and momentum it brings.


    The Troops

    [​IMG]
    Window View (Politoed) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Scald
    - Ice Beam
    - Toxic
    - Encore

    New Politoed, courtesy of Jimbon. Physically bulky, fairly standard support moves. Encore over Perish Song because Celebi has Perish Song now. ​
    Old:
    Show Hide
    Window View (Politoed) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Modest Nature
    - Focus Blast
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Psychic

    I suppose this is a pretty regular Scarf-Toed. Hydro Pump is clicked probably 75% of the time, because that shit HURTS. Focus Blast is nice coverage to have, and Ice Beam nets me lots of surprise-Scarf kills, especially against dragons like Dragonite. Psychic is my only good way to deal with Toxicroak, as otherwise it's game over for me once he gets a sub and some Bulk-Ups in. EV's are fairly standard, and I like the extra power of Modest, but this is obviously very changeable.


    [​IMG]
    The Horse (Keldeo) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power [Electric]
    - Icy Wind

    Choice Scarf Keldeo, arguably the best Scarfer in the meta right now, especially in the rain. Awesome speed, especially for a scarfer, coupled with TONS of power, even without his Specs. Secret Sword is what makes Keldeo so hard to wall, and deals with blobs, SpDef Ferrothorn and Jirachi, and Tyranitar mainly. HP Electric is for Gyarados. Icy Wind beats most Lati switch ins thanks to that beautiful speed drop. The speed drop, along with my need for HP Electric, are the main reasons I don't use HP Ice, despite the higher BP and Accuracy.

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    Golden Age (Weavile) (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 Atk / 224 Spd / 32 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Ice Punch
    - Ice Shard
    - Low Kick
    - Pursuit
    Weavile is just awesome to use. Latis, Jellicent, Celebi, and almost anything that troubles Keldeo ('cept Croaker) can be handled by this evil weasel. It isn't uncommon for Weavile to net me 3 or 4 kills in a single game. Moves are super standard, basically the only way to use Weavile in OU. Ice Punch is a handy main-STAB, and Ice Shard saves me from Scarf-Chomp, DDnite, and RP Lando. Low Kick is great, OHKOing Tyranitar, and Heatran, among others. Along with his blazing speed and powerful Ice Shard, Pursuit is his main niche. Trapping any Latias or -2 Latios is unbelievable handy. Thanks to him having a speed tier all its own in OU, 224+ is all the speed you need to outpace Tornadus-T, Dugtrio, and many +1 Dragonites. Surprisingly, Weavile eats neutral special hits from anything that doesn't hit very hard without much of a problem. I have tried Life Orb, but it misses the OHKO on Multiscale Dnite all the time, while Choice Band takes it out most of the time. Life Orb recoil also annoyed me, because Weavile needs all the bulk it can get for when it can't OHKO something.

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    Daydream (Landorus-Therian) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 196 HP / 116 Def / 196 Spd
    Lax Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - U-turn
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Lando-T, the lesser used Therian. Thanks to HabibsHOtDogs for this set. Does well against Terrakion, Toxicroak, and many other strong Physical attackers, while also reliably setting SR and being a solid pivot with U-Turn. Moves are fairly obvious, with HP Ice hitting Salamence, Garchomp, and Dragonite, as well as opposing Landos and Gliscors.

    Old:
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    Lazy Day (Toxicroak) (M) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Dry Skin
    EVs: 252 Atk / 120 HP / 136 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Drain Punch
    - Ice Punch
    - Sucker Punch
    - Substitute

    Purpose 1: Don't allow any water ponies or ridiculously muscular cows wreck my team. Purpose 2: Annoy things with its ridiculous ability to recover health. That's just about it. I've come to like the coverage these moves provide, but I am open to suggestions. I think the main issue is that I can't hit Keldeo for super-effective damage, but that usually doesn't matter because he cant do much back. Speed is to always beat base 70s such as Politoed, and especially Breloom so that it can't Spore all over me. As you (probably) saw in the teambuilding, this guy replaced Tornadus-T. It seems odd to replace Torny with such a non-similar Pokemon, but since I ran Life Orb Torny, Scarf Keldeo walked all over me most of the time. I didn't want to use Jellicent, as it usually just sits there, and most Keldeo carry a Super Effective Hidden Power for it. Celebi was an option, but I wanted a more rain-oriented Pokemon that wasn't beaten by things usually accompanying Keldeo. The switch was obvious. His incredible typing and good ability make him almost invaluable to my team.

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    Twelve Roses (Ferrothorn) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature
    - Leech Seed
    - Thunder Wave
    - Spikes
    - Power Whip

    SpDef Ferrothorn is just awesome in tandem with PhysDef Politoed and Celebi. Thanks to Celebi's Perish Song and Stealth Rock, he can run spikes and not worry about being set-up bait. Leech Seed is always handy for some passive recovery. Thunder Wave is because paralysis is just awesome in this meta. Spikes are there for obvious reasons, and Power Whip is semi-reliable STAB that hits hard even uninvested.


    Old:
    Show Hide
    Simply Ferrothorn. Takes special hits like a champ, and Thunder Wave is always fun. My best answer to Sub-CM Rachi, as Power Whip usually 2HKOs its subs, and standard builds cant do much back until they get +4 or +5 (and they're hopefully fairly worn down by then). Also my only Stealth Rocker, but luckily he's quite reliable for that. Unfortunately, lately I have been annoyed with its inability to touch anything that uses Substitute. Power Whip is OK, but has shaky accuracy and terrible coverage. Gyro Ball's coverage is even worse, along with only having 8 PP. The only real niche he has on this team is Leech Seed, but even that isn't extremely helpful. I'd say that this slot is the most up-for-grabs out of any of them. All that I lose by removing it is a Steel-Type, a Stealth Rocker, and something to take Special hits, but many Pokemon can accomplish this.


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    Vacation (Tentacruel) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Toxic
    - Substitute
    - Scald
    - Rapid Spin

    Tentacruel replaces Xatu as my hazard manager. Better synergy with Rain, as well as better overall defenses. Another upside is that extreme prediction is not required to keep hazards off like it is with Xatu. Toxic for killing things, while I Protect and regain health. Scald is just a great move on defensive Pokemon. Rapid Spin is obligatory so that I'm not wrecked by hazards. 16 Speed Timid to reach the ever important 263 benchmark, ensuring no Politoed or Breloom without a Scarf outspeeds you. The rest into bulk, and you have yourself a Tentacruel.


    Old:
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    Wide Awake (Xatu) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 232 HP / 56 Spd / 220 Def
    Serious Nature
    - Toxic
    - Roost
    - U-turn
    - Heat Wave

    It wasn't until I was typing this that I realized that I had a 0 Speed IV left over from when Forry was in this slot. That explains the seeming sudden abundance of Jolly Brelooms and Timid Politoeds (the 56 Speed EVs allow it to outspeed any Loom or Toed without a +Speed nature). Toxic is my main weapon against Hippowdon and other bulky things that don't like Toxic, Roost allows me to stick around for a while, U-Turn gets me a favorable matchup almost all the time, and Heat Wave roasts bugs and plants wearing steel armor. I really wish I could use 12 moves on this guy, because he has so many good options, and I can't touch anything not hit 4x by Heat Wave due to the rain lack of a powerful STAB move. The EVs allow it to almost never be 2HKO'd by CB Scizor's Bullet Punch, but outspeed neutral base-70s, like I said above. I used to run Thunder Wave over Toxic, but I needed a good answer to Hippowdon so that it doesn't become a stall-fest as it tries to set up rocks, since nothing else on the set hurts it. I also already have T Wave on Ferro, however most things know immediately to sub up on it, so it's sometimes ineffective. Running Psychic allows it to perfectly handle Breloom, but then I would give up something, and I can't decide on that.


    Threats
    Major
    My own bad play
    Minor
    Landorus-I if Weavile is gone
    Tornadus-T
    Bulk-Up Conkeldurr

    List likely to be extended!

    Thanks for reading, hope I made it look acceptable and provided detailed enough descriptions. This team was a solo-project, so the only shoutout I really have is to ctann (whoever you are) for giving me the idea for the core of this team.
    Changes in bold
    In case you want to try it out:
    Show Hide
    Window View (Politoed) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Modest Nature
    - Focus Blast
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Psychic

    The Horse (Keldeo) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power [Electric]
    - Icy Wind

    Golden Age (Weavile) (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 Atk / 224 Spd / 32 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Ice Punch
    - Ice Shard
    - Low Kick
    - Pursuit

    Lazy Day (Toxicroak) (M) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Dry Skin
    EVs: 252 Atk / 120 HP / 136 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Drain Punch
    - Ice Punch
    - Sucker Punch
    - Substitute

    Twelve Roses (Ferrothorn) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature
    - Leech Seed
    - Thunder Wave
    - Stealth Rock
    - Power Whip

    Wide Awake (Xatu) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 232 HP / 56 Spd / 220 Def
    Serious Nature
    - Toxic
    - Roost
    - U-turn
    - Heat WaveWindow View (Politoed) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Scald
    - Ice Beam
    - Toxic
    - Encore

    The Horse (Keldeo) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power [Electric]
    - Icy Wind

    Golden Age (Weavile) (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Ice Punch
    - Ice Shard
    - Low Kick
    - Pursuit

    Daydream (Landorus-Therian) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 196 HP / 116 Def / 196 Spd
    Lax Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - U-turn
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Twelve Roses (Ferrothorn) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature
    - Leech Seed
    - Thunder Wave
    - Spikes
    - Power Whip

    Vacation (Tentacruel) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Toxic
    - Substitute
    - Scald
    - Rapid Spin

  2. Funkasaurus

    Funkasaurus i know what is next, but you won't believe me
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2011
    Messages:
    708
    Hi there,

    Nice rain team you have there, but I'm going to get right into my rate. First off, you should make Politoed into a Choice Specs user and Keldeo into a Choice Scarf user. Scarf Keldeo is an excellent revenge killer in the current metagame. It outspeeds over 95% of the Pokemon in the current metagame, if not speed tie with other Scarf Keldeo and scarf Terrakion. The only things that outspeed it include: Timid Venusaur in sun and Scarf Latios(lol). Also, Specs Politoed, like Keldeo, does massive damage with Hydro Pump, opening up holes in the opponent's defense. Plus, the addition of Perish Song on your Politoed will be helpful as it can stop a sweeper from setting up on you, or just plain forcing them to switch. Next, from what I've noticed, you have no Tornadus-T switch-in. With that said, I recommend using a Sp Def Jirachi > Xatu. Jirachi is excellent at walling all forms of Tornadus-T, taking manageable damage from any move thrown at it. Plus, Jirachi can use Stealth Rock, so you can use Spikes on Ferrothorn, so you put more pressure on your opponent to Rapid Spin. Other than that, good team and good luck!

    Sets (open)

    Politoed (F) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Focus Blast
    - Perish Song

    Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Surf

    Ferrothorn
    Spikes > Stealth Rock

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Iron Head
    - Thunder
    - Stealth Rock
    - Wish
  3. Jimbon

    Jimbon FAKE TRAIN
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    513
    Hi there,

    Cool rain team you got here, interesting use of Weavile which I'm starting to see a little more of. Anyway, as for your team I think your main lack of a good defensive Pokemon is hurting your team. You may argue that Xatu is decent at performing that role, but it really doesn't fare well against DD Nite, SD Scizor or any Terrakion set, as it has to predict around with Stone Edges. I think you'd make much better use of a Physically Defensive Politoed set in that spot over your current Choice Scarf set. Physically Defensive gives you a buffer for all of these, aswell as giving you a pretty nice core alongside Xatu and Ferrothorn. Having the freedom as well to switch up moves means you can Perish Song freely, forcing out some of the bigger threats to your team such as CM Jirachi, DD Gyara, SD Scizor, BU Toxicroak and other boosters that can setup against certain members of your team. Switching over to a Defensive set means you lost that ability to revenge kill with Politoed, but my next change should cover that nicely.

    If you go with this change, you'll notice you've just lost your Choice Scarfer. In this fast paced metagame it really is essential you have someway to check the multitude of threats that are everywhere. I'd agree with Funkasaurus's Choice Scarf Keldeo suggestion, as this compensates for losing Choice Scarf Politoed. Under Rain, Keldeo is a much bigger threat than Politoed with it's higher Special Attack and dual STAB. Additionally, I'd suggest switching your moveset to Surf / Hydro Pump / Secret Sword / Hidden Power [Ice] as well as running 30 Atk and Def IVs too. Icy Wind is really weak as a coverage move, and this becomes more notable because it isn't STAB either. Hidden Power [Ice] provides you with that extra bit of power to break through certain Dragons. Icy Wind is nice for slowing down certain Pokemon, but Choice Scarf Keldeo already outspeeds 95% of the metagame, so there's really no need.

    Also given the amount of insurance you have against Dragons, (Politoed, Keldeo, Ferrothorn, Weavile), I think you could alter your Toxicroak set slightly to be more effective. I really think you'd make much better use of either Swords Dance or Bulk Up on Toxicroak over Ice Punch. Given that your team already handles Dragons nicely, I don't see the need for Ice Punch really. The only other thing you'd need that for is Gliscor, who is dealt with by Weavile and Keldeo. Given the amount of Water types in the metagame (Politoed, Keldeo, Tentacruel), Toxicroak can switch in and take advantage of these free switches much better. Bulk Up would also help you with your SD Scizor problem to an extent, while Swords Dance would make Toxicroak much more potent as a sweeper and give you a much better answer to Stall when combined with Xatu.

    Good luck!

    politoed (open)
    Politoed @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spe
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Toxic
    - Protect / Ice Beam
    - Perish Song
  4. Kidogo

    Kidogo

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2012
    Messages:
    461
    As the raters above have said, this is a solid rain team. I agree with a lot of the above suggestions, most primarily switching keldeo to scarf--regardless of toed's set, scarftoed is just too slow to serve as the sole revenge-killer on the team. You really can choose between which toed set to use, I personally like bulky toed more since it helps to win the weather war but specstoed is pretty awesome too.

    I see your reasoning on weavile's item, but I do think LO could be worth consideration since otherwise it will be massive set-up bait for stuff like dragons if you've just pursuited something--and if weavile is in, you can't immediately go to it to revenge. If you like band it's a good option though.

    Looking at your list of threats, I have a pokemon to substitute in for toxicroak: celebi. With perish song, it handily beats subDD gyara (psong while it bounces, switch to something when it hits), subCM rachi, and all forms of croak (it lives +2 LO sucker pucnh with a defensive spread). Celebi can also use SR, which frees up a slot for ferro to use spikes. Meanwhile, celebi does a nice job countering keldeo. A good set would be:
    Show Hide
    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 236 HP / 208 Def / 44 SDef / 20 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Perish Song
    - Stealth Rock / U-turn / Thunder Wave
    - Recover
    - Psychic

    EVs here maximize HP to lefties number, guarantee you live two super-effective HPs from LO keldeo after SR, outrun adamant breloom, and then the rest in physical defense. Psong is obvious and checks all those set-up sweepers, SR allows ferrothorn to use spikes, Recover for healing and psychic for a great STAB that allows you to OHKO toxicroak and breloom. If you want to keep SR on ferro, U-turn and Twave are great options in that slot--twave allows you to cripple torny on the predicted switch, among other things, and u-turn allow you to keep momentum (again helpful if torny comes in). Baton Pass is also possible to escape form pursuiters (you mentioned celebi getting beat by stuff that accompanied keldeo) but clashes with psong a bit.
    This set should really help those niche problems while fulfilling croak's role as well--if you try it out, i think you'll really be impressed!

    I think ferrothorn is good on this team tbh, a steel type is p necessary and if you use celebi sub users become less of a problem. One option that I've tried out is using bulldoze on ferro, which makes it better vs. subCMrachi. Unfortunately, you need substantial attack investment to guarantee breaking its subs, so it's not a great option.

    Like funk, i don't really love the use of xatu on this team. If you use SpDrachi though, I'd suggest changing ferro's EV spread to more physically defensive. A spinner would also be possible in that slot, though none of them have great options vs. torny. Lastly, if you do choose to use SpDrachi with SR, ferro should definitely have spikes instead and celebi, if you use it, should have twave or u-turn.

    GL with the team!
  5. Mosquiton

    Mosquiton Tette

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2010
    Messages:
    137
    Hi There, nice rain team!

    The first thing that i want advice is to exchange Politoed's and Keldeo's items.
    Keldeo with choice scarf under rain still has a 50% strengthening of the water moves but gains a great speed for revengekill the most threats of the metagame.
    Its Hydropump under rain has 100% to make a 2HKO to Spdef Jirachi if there are stealthrock in the field, also can stop the sweep of many more threat better than Politoed, in addition to Dragonite can outspeeding Salamence, Garchomp, Thundurus, Volcarona but especially thanks to its Hp Electric can also revengekill Jolly Gyarados as you said that DDGyara can be a problem for you.
    At this point in putting Choice specs Toed you still have a member that hits really hard whoever comes into play, however, putting the timid nature so you can outspeed pericolous threat like CBnite, Breloom, Scizor and Ma
    moswine: with a single Pokémon can kill these dangerous threat while maintaining the power of the specs.The set is the standard: Hydropump is mainstab that you use to spam major damage, Icebeam is to hit the dragons, Celebi and Breloom, Focus Blast is for Ferrothorn that you do a sure 2HKO, and then you can put perish song to stop the batonpass team or if you prefer can also put HP Grass for hit Gastrodon and Jellicent.

    You said that subcalm mind Jirachi can be a problem but if you see his moves ferrothorn can resist very well and with a simple change can counter this problem: insert Bulldoze > Twave with 24 evs in attack you have possibilities to break at once the substitute of timid rachi with 252 evs in hp and win the 1v1.
    About Ferrothorn I suggest you also to put Gyroball > Powerwhip to be able to break theKyurem-b's substitute, but also hit SubCalmMind Latias and Tornadus-t that can give you some problems.
    At this point you should put Mamoswine > Weavile for greater bulkyness but also more power and coverage. With rain + thick fat can hit Heatran and take a very little damage from his fire stab, doing anyway 2HKO with earthquake if jellicent switch on him and make a safe 2HKO with iceshard on calmcelebi if there are rocks in the field.
    The set is standard EQ and Ice Shard are the mainstab that offering some of the best coverage and revengekill power, Suporpower is to hit ferrothorn and rotom, in finally icicle crash is to hit Hippowdon and amoongus.
    You can give on him Life Orb for make more damages.

    Ps: please, change Xatu's nature from serious to bold xD

    Sets:
    Show Hide

    >Scarf @ Keldeo
    >Specs @ Politoed
    >Bulldoze over Twave, Gyroball over Power whip @ Ferrothorn
    >Mamoswine over Weavile

    Politoed (F) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Focus Blast
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Grass] / Perish Song

    Keldeo (Keldeo-R) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Secret Sword
    - Hydro Pump
    - Icy Wind
    - Hidden Power [Electric]

    Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 24 Atk / 232 SDef
    Ivs: 0 Spe
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Gyro Ball
    - Stealth Rock
    - Leech Seed
    - Bulldoze

    Mamoswine (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Ice Shard
    - Icicle Crash
    - Earthquake
    - Superpower
  6. pom

    pom

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2013
    Messages:
    37
    Thanks for the rates guys, OP is updated with changes. I assure you that even if I didn't use something you suggested, that it is NOT due to a lack of testing. I'm 10-0 with the new team so far, so thank you so much guys!
  7. HabibsHotDogs

    HabibsHotDogs

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2009
    Messages:
    260
    Hi Pom,

    I am currently using "ctann" as my showdown username :)

    I'm glad you liked my Keldeo/Weavile core, I peaked in the 1900's with that core using various team combinations (1963 iirc). I rather enjoyed your team and think it's a great combination as I couldn't find too many flaws. It is interesting that you chose scarf Keldeo and I think she fits more on rain teams then my own life orb/taunt wall breaker. Perhaps you could give the wall breaker set a try albeit I can see the merit in using Keldeo as a scarfer, especially when your team would most likely need one.

    I have my personal Weavile and Keldeo sets displayed in this thread (page 2): http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3475986&page=2 (note you will have to look at the Keldeo replays with Weavile in them to see it in play, I used expert belt and night slash over ice punch)

    I've experimented a lot with Weavile and she has a few viable sets in my opinion but with Keldeo I fell in love with my self-designed LO+Taunt Wallbreaker.

    Banded Weavile is great except for all the painful Jirachi and Scizor switch ins, I'd like to hear your opinions on how good the band is in the current metagame.

    I would make suggestions but the team looks fine, apart from being very hazard prone (all grounded pokemon, a standard spiker and Jellicent could really give you a headache until she finally falls to weavile) it looks like a fairly durable team.

    edit: Things that threaten you would be:

    1. Sub-Charge Magnezone + accompanying sweeper - Magnezone with hp ice will go 2 for 1 once it gets a safe switch in on ferrothorn, unfortunately at the moment theres nothing you can do about it except hope for some hax!
    2. Volt turn - A forgotten strat that will give this team some serious trouble, once the hazards are up, tentacruel won't be given much chance to spin, racking up hazards.
    3. SD Terrakion - Easily comes in after weavile pursuit traps something and then goes to town on your switch in, chance to go 2 for 1 again. A salac set has a chance to sweep whilst a rock gem set is 80% sure to ko at least one pokemon on your team.
    4. Lucario with Crunch - Goes through everything on your team, +2 e speed will ko Keldeo after a little prior damage and Tentacruel can't ko with scald whilst is 2hkoed back by crunch, it also takes around 70% from a +2 close combat so is a shaky check as the opponent can predict your protect.
    5. Double dance/Dragon dance Haxorus - Often accompanied by Magnezone, often has superpower for Ferrothorn, consider my set posted in the above link a few posts down from Keldeo. At least it is revengeable by weavile! (<edit: Actually it isn't... lol!)
    6. Mamoswine - It can spam earthquake all day and if Celebi decides to come in, switch moves to an ice attack..


    What I would suggest to handle all of this is a Landorus-T as it can even check Mamoswine earthquakes and then switch! The benefit of using it is that it can also learn stealth rock. It also makes your team more offensive. I would personally replace Celebi with it, seeing as Keldeo has HP electric for Gyarados and tentacruel walls opposing Keldeo anyway. Ofcourse this would mean you have an issue with Landorus-I, who may now do work on your team however I don't see this as a real problem as you can always check a predicted HP ice with Weavile OR Keldeo. If there is any other targets Celebi can wall (physically or specially) that would give your team with Landorus-T trouble, please let me know! As far as sub-charge Magnezone, whilst it will still 2 for 1 your team with HP ice (the set I personally always use when trapping), at least now you have intimidate and a back up method of dealing with the physical sweepers it is often accompanied by!

    My landorus-T set:

    Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 196 Spd / 196 HP / 116 Def
    Lax Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - U-turn
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    An alternative to the above is to invest more in defence, however the speed will help you against slower Heatran and Jolly Breloom. It also ensures you HP ice a gliscor before it does anything to you most of the time and you will always earthquake a magnezone before it attacks if it isn't scarfed.
  8. pom

    pom

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2013
    Messages:
    37
    I figured you would find this thread somehow. That makes me glad I have the odd type of memory that would allow me to remember your Showdown name, hah.

    On to the actual team, I'm really glad you were able to isolate some threats that I missed. Now that you mention that about SubCharge Zone, I think I might retry Bulldoze on Ferro. Volt-Turn, I don't recall ever having major issues with, but Lando's Electric immunity and Bug resist will certainly help. I really liked Kidogo's Celebi, but Lando also sets up rocks while providing even more offensive pressure, and I can fit Perish Song onto Politoed. Terrakion used to be dealt with by Toxicroak, but Lando can pick these duties up as well. Now, the biggest issue I think you listed was Lucario. Ones that run Crunch sweep my team aside from Landorus, but ones with Ice Punch beat Lando, unless I put more EVs into Speed. Haxorus and other Dragon Dancing Dragons, I need to Perish Song and get locked into Outrage, but worst case scenario, I lose 1 Poke and revenge with Weavile.

    Now that I've gone through that, I really like your Lando suggestion. I'll test that now, along with Bulldoze Ferro once more.
  9. HabibsHotDogs

    HabibsHotDogs

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2009
    Messages:
    260
    The problem with your celebi is really the mono attacking presence it holds. Psychic literally makes it bait for scizor//Ferrothorn/Forretress/Tyranitar/Jirachi/Weavile! Landorus-T would be great for sub charge Magnezone's not packing hp ice or flash cannon as it shouldn't be ohkoed by hp fire, even at +6! Ice punch Lucario is so rare and so limited in use I expect you won't see any at all, ice punch is really a redundant move on Lucario in this meta! Worst case scenario it is merely +1 and Tentacruel will never be 2hkoed whilst Keldeo is much harder to pull down with extremespeed!

    The only threat I can think of that will still give you trouble with Landorus-T (apart from non standard threats like hurricane moltres) is bulk up Conkeldurr, but that is seriously so incredibly rare and will at worst take out your Tentacruel/Landorus whilst you spam scalds/Earthquakes and then revenge with a rain boosted hydro pump. If you're paranoid about Conkeldurr, you can run psychic on Landorus-T to 2hko it and also use a stronger move against Breloom (often ohkoing it!)
  10. Leftiez

    Leftiez *Stars*

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,065
    Hi pom.
    It is a very effective and very strong team, and then I see Weavil a Pokémon very interesting and it is a very good sweeper, but your team have weaknesses as Tornadus-T, you have nothing to his Hurricane, Ferrothorn is 2HKO by Hurricane, Politoed also and even if you put Keldeo or Weavil opponent can switch, then I see that you are weak against Landorus-T you have nothing for tank earthquake properly, Ferrothorn is 3HKO by Earthquake (2HKO with spikes) and even if you put Weavil/Keldeo the opponent can also switch and come after to continue, I suggest you to Rotom-W on Keldeo, Rotom-W is a very good pokemon for your team, it can counter Landorus-T with his ability (Levitate) and use the move Will-O-Wisp, and it can also counter Tornadus-T because Rotom-W is an Electric type, it tank properly the Hurricane move and it also has Paint Split to heal.
    Then I see you own Protect on Tentacruel, I suggest you to Substitute, with this move you can come on Politoed without problem, and you can also Toxic or try to burn a pokemon easily (Rotom-W/Politoed/Ferrothorn/Jirachi/Forretress).

    Rotom-W (open)
    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 180 SDef / 76 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Pain Split
    - Will-O-Wisp


    Tl;dr
    Show Hide
    Keldeo--->Rotom-W
    Tentacruel--->Substitute


    Hope I Helped and Good Luck with your Team.
  11. pom

    pom

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2013
    Messages:
    37
    Once again guys, thanks so much for all of your help.

    I am currently using Lando-T over Celebi for the way it works against opposing Terrakions, Scizors, Brelooms, and the like. I really liked Celebi as it gave a status absorber and a better switch in against Tentacruel and Rotom, but overall Landorus-T (and especially Intimidate) has helped me more.

    Leftiez, I see what you're saying about Rotom over Keldeo, but Rotom simply doesnt bring the same offensive pressure and sweeping ability as Keldeo. Tornadus-T almost never gets more than 1 KO anyway with Weavile around, as Life Orb and Stealth Rock usually put it within KO range of even an unboosted Pursuit. I am using Substitue over Protect now, and I like that it helps me handle Ferrothorn and other Tentacruels better.

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