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Golem (QC 1/3)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Amarillo, Nov 24, 2011.

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  1. Amarillo

    Amarillo
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    Golem

    Shamelessly C/P’d a lot from Malkyrian’s Rhydon skeleton <3 Edited all the important parts, though.

    [Overview]

    • Rock/Ground typing gives Golem some bad defensive typing but a great dual STAB
    • Well resisting bird types aren't that bad tbh considering prevelance of Krow...
    • Okay attack, okay physical bulk
    • low special defense
    • heinous speed
    • outclassed by rhydon, no eviolite, lower attack etc. Also misses out on Megahorn and Ice punch, two big coverage moves rhydon has.
    • explosion was golem’s only leg up on rhydon since beginning of time, and that got nerfed
    • has sturdy I guess
    • at least you can’t aim for his horn

    [SET]
    name: Utility
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Stone Edge / Rock Blast
    move 4: Explosion / Sucker Punch
    item: Normal Gem / Lum Berry
    ability: Sturdy
    nature: Adamant
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Sets up Stealth Rock reliably thanks to sturdy
    • EdgeQuake Coverage to suck less and actually pose an offensive threat
    • Sucker Punch comes in handy vs. offensive teams so that you hurt an opposing mon with your STAB and finish it off with the priority
    • On the other hand, explosion should get you out of the way before slower spinners spin, preserving your hazards.
    • As a bonus, Normal Gem Explosion should deal enough to cripple Claydol!

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • I’m really stuck with the Item choice here. I guess Normal Gem’s kinda there because I feel that a weak Explosion is kinda a waste and I don’t like killing my Golem for fun =(. But I know deep inside that Explosion’s true usage is that pseudo-spinblocking on an offensive team that can’t afford a spinblocker slot so the damage output doesn’t exactly matter. Lum or Mental Herb might let Golem do his job more consistently.
    • 252/252 offensive spread because really there’s no point in investing Golem’s bulk. He’ll wall normals and fliers anyway and he’ll die to special attacks anyway. He needs speed to outspeed spinners.
    • Just like other dedicated stealth rock users, there’s no point in giving Golem any support.
    • Offensive teams want sr and they appreciate an offensive sr setter like golem.
    • Dedicated leads don’t really exist anymore but this is as close as it comes.

    [SET]
    name: Rock Polish
    move 1: Rock Polish
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Fire Punch / Double-Edge
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Jolly
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Alleviates Golem's speed issues, probably its biggest weakness
    • Fourth slot is debatable, Fire Punch to tickle Tangrowth, Double-Edge is useful coverage alongside its Rock Head ability.
    • Fears super-effective priority and faster Scarf users

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • Sturdy does 'guarantee' the Rock Polish, but hazards screw sturdy over and Rock Head has Double-Edge on its side.
    • Probably can drop down in speed, but idgaf if I’m missing any targets
    • Hazard support is extremely helpful if not outright vital for this set, so having teammates who can set it up is a great boon
    • Honchkrow is recommended as a partner, since it can easily handle a good deal of the opponents threatening this set, and the two have decent synergy to begin with

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Rock Blast / Stone Edge
    move 3: Double-Edge / Explosion
    move 4: Fire Punch / Toxic / Stealth Rock
    item: Choice Band
    nature: Adamant
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • good initial power
    • good prediction is necessary
    • EdgeQuake + normal coverage, same deal
    • Rock Blast is preferred to break Subs and because this Golem really hates a miss
    • I really don’t know what to put on the final slot so please help

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • Oh I know should I just slash LO, call it All-Out Attacker or something, so that 4th slot has a legitimate option in sucker punch?
    • Idk does he get Thunderpunch?
    • Max speed (jolly) outspeeds uninvested base 80's such as Mandibuzz and strike before she roosts
    • Max speed (adamant) outspeeds uninvested hitmonchan by a single point. However, neither of them are common enough to warrant full speed investment.
    • Actually idk slower spread is probably more viable now that outspeeding uninvested base 81 speed isn't that important in this tier: 208 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe because Marowak's on the same speed tier as Golem and this is what zdrup has so it must be right
    • Loses to Gligar and Tangrowth and stuff like that 100% of the time.
    • Both abilities are viable I guess, Rock Head for the recoilless Double Edge. Sturdy on a CB attacker sounds fun, but then Double Edge might as well be useless because I’m breaking my own sturdy. So I put Explosion on there for now, but Explosion’s actually really weaksauce, barely stronger than a neutral STAB.

    [Other Options]

    • Rock Slide, if neither Stone Edge nor Rock Blast is appealing
    • Fire Punch, if Ferroseed is a huge threat. Doubt it OHKOs, though =(
    • Substitute set a la Subperior?
    • Rock Polish set?
    • Defensive set is completely outclassed by eviolite Rhydon

    [Checks and Counters]

    • Quagsire sets up in Golem's face and laughs off anything Golem can throw at it
    • Gligar and Sandslash can break Golem's substitutes with Earthquake, tank its hits, and kill it off with Toxic; however Sandslash lacks recovery and so can be worn down. Golem doesn’t have ice punch
    • Tangrowth needs to watch out for nothing and can KO with Giga Drain
    • Max defense RestTalk Poliwrath with Leftovers is not 2HKOed by Earthquake unless Golem carries Choice Band, and can beat Golem with Waterfall
    • Bulky Ghosts such as Dusknoir and Cofagrigus can tank hits from Golem, and burn
    • Claydol can outspeed and deal heavy damage with Earth Power or neutralize Golem with Reflect. Golem doesn’t even get Megahorn
    • Golem hates being statused in general because burn makes him useless and toxic breaks his sturdy
    • Water and Grass everything
  2. Dragonmaster123

    Dragonmaster123

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    on the CB set, why Max Speed, he's still slow as dirt anyways
  3. Amarillo

    Amarillo
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    Yeah, you're probably right. Any EV recommendations?
  4. Dragonmaster123

    Dragonmaster123

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    i need to test it first, haven't even thought about using him lol
  5. Omicron

    Omicron
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    Ok, I think base 110 Attack definitely warrants a Rock Polish set, I'd probably put it before the Choice Band set actually.
  6. Amarillo

    Amarillo
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    OK, added the Rock Polish set. Ready for QC check now.
  7. Koinzell

    Koinzell

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    Your words pretty much sum up why Rock Polish is outclassed. Golem has two things over Rhydon, speed and special bulk, but I doubt any of those matter. To give you an idea Jolly Rhydon is stronger and faster than Adamant Golem. Rhydon also has higher physical bulk (even without Eviolite), allowing him to survive Close Combat from Scarf Primeape.

    The Choice Band set seems also outclassed, recoil-less Double Edge is cool and all but you only need it against things that resist Quake-Edge, which Rhydon easily kills with Megahorn. What else does Rhydon have ? Sucker Punch won't do on a choice set and Explosion is pretty bad this gen.

    Imo, make LO the primary option and Sucker Punch the only option for the 3rd slot. The 4th slot being Double Edge or Stealth Rock. It would be interesting to know how much LO Double Edge + LO Sucker Punch does to Claydol
  8. Oglemi

    Oglemi <&Oglemi> i am a gay badger buddy :3
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    Even if Golem is outclassed by Rhydon, those sets are still highly usable, so they should get a spot in the analysis.
  9. Nails

    Nails EAST 2014
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    not stamping until i discuss why we're doing analyses of outclassed pokemon... nothing against you

    the material itself looks good
  10. Oglemi

    Oglemi <&Oglemi> i am a gay badger buddy :3
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    I'm revoking my previous approval and rejecting this

    QC REJECTED 1/3

    Golem is just too outclassed by Rhydon, Gigilith, and Regirock to name a few to really warrant an RU analysis. We'll wait for NU for this one.
  11. zdrup15

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    Yeah rejecting this after talking to Oglemi
  12. Honko

    Honko
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    Yeah, Golem isn't a terrible Pokemon but it's basically 100% outclassed. It has almost nothing of value over Rhydon, and the pair are way too slow to work together in any kind of "double Dragon" breaking-each-others'-counters kind of way, so there's really no reason to ever use Golem.

    QC REJECTED 3/3
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