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Golem (revamp) [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Hollywood, Feb 24, 2013.

  1. Hollywood

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    [Overview]

    <p>NU is a tier packed full of potential Stealth Rock users, many of whom share one of Golem's typings. However, there are many different reasons to choose Golem for a slot on your team. The best reason to choose Golem for your team is its dual Ground / Rock typing, which no other common Pokemon in NU shares. This allows it to take Flying-type moves with ease while also being immune to Electric-type attacks. It also gives Golem an additional STAB move to utilize, which Pokemon like Gigalith would love to have. Additionally, Golem is one of only a few Pokemon in the tier that is nearly guaranteed to set up Stealth Rock thanks to Sturdy, allowing Golem to live any one hit from full HP unless the opposing Pokemon has Mold Breaker. With these things in mind, Golem is usually better suited for more offensively oriented teams. Finally, while Golem may have exploitable Grass-, Water-, and Ground-type weaknesses and a low Special Defense stat, it is still a great Stealth Rock user that gets its job done well.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Custap Lead
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Rock Blast
    move 4: Explosion
    item: Custap Berry
    ability: Sturdy
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is designed to get up entry hazards at the beginning of the battle. With Sturdy at its disposal, Golem is guaranteed to set up Stealth Rock against most opposing leads. Another way this set benefits from the presence of Sturdy is through Custap Berry and Explosion. Thanks to Sturdy and a lack of EVs in Defense or Special Defense, Golem will often be knocked down to Custap range very early on in the battle. Custap Berry gives the user +1 priority on the next selected move when the holder is at 25% or less HP. This, in combination with Explosion, makes Golem a potent threat and allows for a safe switch into another Pokemon once it has completed the task of setting up Stealth Rock. Some may argue that Gigalith does this job better due to its higher Attack stat, but Golem also has Ground-type STAB to its advantage—something that Gigalith cannot claim. This makes Earthquake a mandatory move on the set. Rock Blast is chosen over Stone Edge or Rock Slide to allow Golem to hit through common Substitute users such as Braviary, Haunter, and Ninjask, as well as breaking Focus Sashes on Pokemon like Scolipede.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given set runs maximum Speed EVs because the loss in bulk is not important for a suicide lead. There are also still a few options that you can use over the moves listed in this set. Toxic is a nice move to take on the bulkier Pokemon against which Golem may otherwise struggle, chipping away at walls such as Alomomola and Tangela. You may also want to run Sucker Punch over Explosion to catch some Pokemon such as Haunter off guard after Custap Berry has been used. This set runs best on offensive teams that require a specific Pokemon being weakened or taken out, as both Explosion and Stealth Rock will deal a great amount of damage to opposing leads and switch-ins. Anything that appreciates the presence of Stealth Rock to assure a KO makes a good partner to this Golem set. Some examples include Sawsbuck, Ludicolo, and Seismitoad. Scolipede makes a decent partner to Golem as well, as it can set up Spikes alongside Golem's Stealth Rock while Golem can take the Fire-, Rock-, and Flying-type attacks aimed at Scolipede. Finally, Misdreavus can be partnered alongside Golem to take on Sawk and block Rapid Spin.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Utility
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Rock Blast
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Sucker Punch / Toxic
    ability: Sturdy
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set takes a slightly more defensive role than the Custap Berry set. One of the main benefits of Golem using this set is that it stays around much longer, in most in most cases, allowing it to check Flying-types in the tier. Once again, this set sets up Stealth Rock and uses Rock Black and Earthquake for STAB moves. For the final moveslot, there are two options: Toxic and Sucker Punch. The choice between the two is entirely up to what your team needs more. Toxic is great for crippling walls and decreasing their vitality, while Sucker Punch takes on a more offensive role, allowing Golem to beat faster, frailer foes such as Haunter.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>56 Speed EVs are used to outspeed Shell Smash Torkoal before it has gotten off the boost and defeat it before it gets the chance to use Rapin Spin. Lum Berry can be used in lieu of Leftovers to cure one infliction of status, giving Golem the opportunity to come in on a predicted Toxic later in the match. It also helps it to beat Liepard and to guarantee Stealth Rock is placed against opposing Golurk with DynamicPunch. Rocky Helmet is another option for an item, as it punishes both Rapin Spin users for removing your Stealth Rock and Swellow and Braviary that try to regain switch initiative with U-turn. Protect may be chosen over Sucker Punch or Toxic for the last slot. While it may have less utility than either of these moves, there are situations where Protect can come in handy. First, it allows Golem to scout against common Choiced Pokemon such as Primeape and Sawk. It also grants Golem a turn of Leftovers recovery after switching in to Stealth Rock, allowing it to refresh the effects of Sturdy.</p>

    <p>Good teammates for this set are rather similar to the Custap Berry set: Pokemon that like the presence of Stealth Rock on the field in order to help net certain KOes love the utility this set offers. Since this Golem set often sticks around longer in the battle, it can also take hits from Flying and Normal-types that other teammates may not appreciate. This makes frailer offensive threats, such as Swellow and Jynx, great choices for partners. Golem also appreciates a partner who can sponge the special hits that it would rather avoid. Mantine fits this role well since it complements Golem's typing well, resists Fighting-type attacks, and takes most special Grass and Ice-type attacks with ease. It also has Water Absorb, which means it benefits from switching into Water-type attacks targeted at Golem.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>There are not many other options for Golem. One thing that it can fit into its Custap set is Sunny Day over Explosion. With this change, Golem is able to set up both Stealth Rock and Sunny Day in order to support its team. This is a solid option for sun teams, as Golem will likely use Sunny Day right before it dies, providing a free switch into a threatening sun sweeper. You can also choose to run Stone Edge for more power or Rock Slide for greater accuracy, though you lose out on being able to break Substitutes and Focus Sashes. Normal Gem can be used alongside Explosion to deal massive amounts of damage, though this is less reliable than Custap Berry. For this same reason, Lum Berry and Leftovers are generally poor choices on the Custap set. Autotomize may seem like a good option to outspeed and defeat common checks to Golem, but between its common weaknesses making it difficult to set up and its Speed leaving it vulnerable to being revenge killed by common Choice Scarf users, Golem is generally better off filling a supporting role. A Choice Band could be used, but Golem is not best suited for this role; since many other common Stealth Rock users share a similar typing, you are just compounding weaknesses for your opponent to exploit. Sturdy is also great for a Stealth Rock lead role, and by running a Choice Band set, you aren't utilizing Golem to its fullest potential.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Golem's weaknesses are common, and it also has a poor Special Defense status that can be used against it. For these reasons, its has many checks and counters. Some Taunt users, such as Misdreavus and Serperior, can both prevent Stealth Rock from being set and defeat Golem one-on-one. Misdreavus is faster than both of Golem's sets, has access to Will-O-Wisp, and is immune to both Explosion and Earthquake. Serperior can use Taunt and hit Golem hard with Giga Drain. Mold Breaker Sawk can also prevent Stealth Rock from being placed by ignoring Sturdy and knocking out Golem in one hit. Golem struggles to beat bulky Water- and Grass-types, such as Samurott, Ludicolo, and Torterra, which can all manage to take a hit while bringing Golem down to 1 HP. Piloswine can also beat Golem thanks to STAB Ice Shard and Earthquake, both of which Golem is weak to. Alomomola cannot prevent Golem from setting up Stealth Rock, but otherwise, it will always beat Golem not carrying Toxic thanks to its great HP, high Defense and access to Wish. Finally, while Golem may seem like a solid answer to Braviary, it needs to be wary against it due to Bulk Up. Golem relies on hitting a high number of times with Rock Blast in order to break through Substitutes and hit for solid damage; otherwise, Braviary can set up to +6 Attack and Defense with Bulk Up while Golem struggles to break Substitute. Golem also risks being hit with a Superpower if it switches into Braviary.</p>

    skeleton (open)
    [Overview]
    • Competes with a variety rock and ground types for a teamslot as a Bulky SR Lead. Golem differentiates itself from most by having access to Sturdy and a great secondary STAB
    • Golem fits a lot better onto more offensive teams whereas pokemon such as Bastiodon are more suitable choices for Stall or Defensive teams.
    • Great offensive Typing.
    • Good check to Birds.
    • Weaknesses to common offensive types (Ground / Water / Grass).
    • Well equipped movepool, but often struggles to find times where other moves would be useful.

    [set]
    name:Custap Lead
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Rock Blast / Stone Edge
    move 4: Explosion
    item: Custap Berry
    ability: Sturdy
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Designed to set up SR then move first next turn and damage the foe as heavily as possible.
    • STAB Earthquake sets it apart from Gigalith as a Custap user and provides great coverage alongside it's other stab option
    • Explosion turns it into more of a suicide lead dealing massive damage to those who don't resist it
    • Rock blast allows you to hit through common substitute users such as Braviary, Haunter and Ninjask and break Scolipede sashes.
    [additional comments]
    • Scolipede makes a decent partner - Golem resists Fire/Rock type attacks aimed at Scolipede, and Scolipede in turn has an easier time vs Sawk.
    • Misdreavus can help vs Sawk too. Burning it before it can KO back.
    • Anything that appreciates rocks to turn an almost KO into a guaranteed KO appreciates Golems support (Ludicolo, Seismitoed, Sawsbuck for example)
    • Toxic can be used as a last ditch attempt for poison a wall that you may otherwise have trouble with (read - Alomomola)
    • Offensive teams which require a specific pokemon being weakened or taken out make for excellent teammates in general as both SR and Explosion will do a great deal of damage to the majority of leads and switch-ins.
    • Premature explosion can leave you very vunerable to flying types such as AcroBlim and Braviary. If you're using Golem a your check to them.
    • Sucker punch can be used over Explosion to catch some mons like Haunter off guard after Custap has been used.
    [set]
    name: Utility
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Stone Edge / Rock Blast
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Sucker Punch / Toxic
    ability: Sturdy
    item: leftovers
    nature: adamant
    200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spe

    [set comments]
    • All common taunt users are usually faster than golem
    • EVs to outspeed Torkoal and KO it beore it can spin
    • Toxic is an additional option to help break down things that can wall Golem (Such as Alomamola)
    [additional comments]
    • Protect allows it to scout choice locked Sawk's move and also regain Sturdy after Stealth Rock Damage
    • Protect is an option over Sucker Punch to allow you to check which move Sawk has locked itself into and it allows you to regain the use of sturdy after switching into rocks at full hp.
    • Spread allows you to always beat Torkoal so it can't switch in and spin
    • Lum Berry (whilst an inferior option) can be used to survive stauts once providing it a chance to come back later in a match on a predicted toxic.
    • Rocky Helmet can serve as a deterrent for spinners and also may deter weaker physical assults from attacks such as U-turn which could ruin your opponents momentum.
    • Sap Sipper Pokémon are partners that may benefit from eating sleep powders aimed at Golem from Tangela

    [other options]
    • Not really much else
    • Sunny Day in Custap set for a double setup set.
    • Rock Slide over Stone edge Power > Accuracy or Rock blast if you find rock blast a little too unreliable
    • Normal Gem and Explosion
    • Autotomize?
    • Leftovers or Lum Berry over Custap berry on the lead set
    • Choice Band - Can work, but far too gimmicky. Golem has better things to be doing.

    [checks and counters]

    • Alomomola
    • Torterra
    • Samurott
    • Bulky Water / Ground (Piloswine) / Grass Types
    • Mold Breaker Sawk bypasses sturdy and can ko back
    • Taunt stops it from doing it's main job of SR
    • Weak Special Def
    • Needs to be wary of sub-bulk up braviary - Golem needs to get relatively lucky with Rock Blast.
    • Misdreavus can taunt and burn Golem whilst having an immunity to both Explosion and EQ
  2. Alonsoforever

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    You meant Earthquake here, right?
  3. FireMage

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    Woops, nice catch.

    I'll be working on this periodically, don't worry.
  4. WhiteDMist

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    Is there a reason why the standard Golem SR setter isn't also a set? It doesn't rely on Custap Berry (which does fail if your opponent breaks Sturdy without bringing Golem down to 25%) and has Sucker Punch as an extra priority. This kind of Golem is much better as a Normal and Flying check because it invests in bulk and has Leftovers. Even with Custap Berry available, it doesn't mean that the old standard isn't still a reliable set. I guess if you want, you can also combine the sets, but they both seem to have a different role despite the similar movesets.
  5. FireMage

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    It's still a wip, and am looking at the old SR setter - I personally enjoy that first response move that Custap Berry has over regular especially as Golem has dire speed. I'll change the set to Lead and add Leftovers and Lum as alternate options.


    EDIT
    I've approached this entirely the wrong way, I'm restarting. I'll edit the OP with my suggestions.
  6. krokodil

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    I personally don't see the need to invest in speed as much. Golem's abysmal 45 Spe isn't really going to make speed investment terribly useful. I understand that in not investing in bulk Golem is more likely able to be brought down to his Custap, but he looses the ability to take on Armaldo head on. I would also like to recommend a surprisingly effective set.

    RockPolishPinchBerry
    [set]
    name: Rock Polish
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Stone Edge / Rock Blast
    move 3: Rock Polish
    move 4: Sucker Punch / Explosion /Stealth Rock
    item: Liechi Berry
    ability: Sturdy
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs : 4HP / 252 Attack / 252 Spe

    Sturdy allows Golem to live on hit, get off a rock polish and hopefully activate its Liechi. EdgeQuake coverage, massive attack, and additional speed allow it to sweep offensively oriented teams. Sucker Punch is there in the case that the opponent may attempt to use priority to kill you after your sturdy, or Golem is forced to switch out with only 1 HP and still be somewhat useful for the player. Explosion allows Golem to do massive damage to walls such as Tangela and Alamomola,who even with the additional power provided by Leichi Berry, completely wall it. Stealth Rock is another nice option if you know death is apparent, especially against Sucker Punch users.
  7. FireMage

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    Golem can tie with Armaldo and OHKO most variants with Stone edge. 128 Speed lets it out speed most on site sets (notably the Choice band variant) I'm not sure if it's Speed creeping or not - but it does give you a second shot at nailing it with Stone Edge (Or getting the 2kho with Rock Blast assuming 4 hits over the two turns.) That's only the most significant thing I could think of - not that you's switch Armadlo in.

    I think I'm done with this and am ready for QC
  8. ebeast

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    Yeah I think Choice Band definitely belongs in Other Options. Even though it does hit pretty hard right off the bat, Golem has better things to be doing with its lifespan such as setting up Stealth Rock and making for a more durable switch into Pokemon like Rotom-S, Braviary, and Swellow.

    You really really need to add a lot more to this. Revamp doesn't mean you can just add little bits and pieces to the old analysis, you have to come up with it from scratch. It's fine to use parts of the old analysis for the revamp though, but if you're going to do that add that stuff into the skeleton. Right now the skeleton is very barren and could use a lot more information.

    As for the sets I would say remove Stone Edge from both and instead make a mention of it in the AC of both sets. Protect on Utility can again go into Additional Comments. Ideas on what you could add in the AC of the Utility set would be some items such as Lum Berry or Ground Gem that make Golem play a bit differently than it would with just Leftovers.

    For Evs you have to remember to keep it in the right format of: HP / Atk / Def / SpA / SpD / Spe. Always have a space between the value and the base stat. As an example Custap Lead's Evs should look like this: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Your current EV spread on Utility Golem can be considered Speed creeping so down it to: 204 HP / 252 Atk / 52 Spe. Mention that this EV spread outspeeds max Speed Modest Torkoal while the 204 HP EVs give it a Leftovers number.

    Add these things and I'll look it over again once you finish.
  9. Raseri

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    is this still being worked on? It hasn't been updated since Ebeast's post. This still needs to be updated. A new overview is needed. I think Custap shoul be over utility, and CB should be in OO at best.

    Once the OP is updated i'll give this a full check, but this is a full revamp. Every part needs to be rewritten
  10. FireMage

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    Op has been updated

    - OO'd Choice band
    - Swapped set order - Custap > Utility especially in a faster metagame.
    - Talked with FLCL and Annoyer over IRC Added their suggestions
    - added more to Checks and counters.
    - added EBeasts suggestions.
    - Added mentions of Scolipede and Jynx to Custap set comments.
  11. Hot N Cold

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    Miss Misdreavus in checks / counters which is probably one of the best counters because can use Taunt and prevent Stealth Rock, inmunity to Explosion / EQ and finally can burn Golem to lower Rock Blast power.
  12. Sweet Jesus

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    add ninjask
    Might as well slash toxic with s-punch/protect
    Add it's often an inferior option because golem is already immune to t wave and many other status inducers can do huge damage to golem anyway

    In a/c of explosion set, write booming your rock type (or just using one witout lefties or bulk investment) can leave you very weak to flying types like acroblim or braviary.

    QC Approved 1/3
  13. WhiteDMist

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    It would be helpful to mention Rocky Helmet in the a/c of the utility set, as well as mentioning that the bulkier spread helps it check Volt Switches and U-turns. Interfering with the opponent's momentum (and even deterring careless/reckless Rapid Spins from Torkoal and Armaldo) makes RH worth a mention at the very least.
  14. Raseri

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    add all of this:


    Overview:
    Golem competes with more than just Regirock as a bulky SR lead. It also competes with Piloswine, Golurk, Probopass, Bastiodon, Lairon, Armaldo. Last month Bastiodon was a more common lead than Regirock, so I don't see why you're focusing on it. Talk about the advantages it has as a Stealth Rock lead, but not just with a comparison to Regirock.

    Choice Band Mold Breaker Sawk. It isn't guaranteed at all anymore. I'd argue that Regirock and Golem are equally efficient at getting SR up.

    ehh its a decent check to birds, Golem is probably the easiest rock-type to beat with them though. Change great to good i guess

    I don't think this needs to be here at all

    It actually isn't that small, Golem has a bunch of other "good" moves that it just doesn't have use for.


    On top of that, I'd add that Golem belongs on offensive teams only. Add a bit to the overview about how Golem is one of the best SR leads for offensive teams.



    Custap Lead:
    Delete this, its obvious and isn't included in analyses anymore.

    Still needs Ninjask added

    Additional Comments:
    needs a big teammate expansion. Talk about how this set allows Golem to do a number to offensive teams. SR + Explosion can kill most sweepers, and those that live are really weakened. Also mention that this set is also great on offensive teams because Explosion can get in a teammate for free.

    Utility set:
    where are your set comments?
    sap sipper teammates belong in AC

    I'd remove the protect slash and drop it to AC, and make Toxic the slash instead.


    additional comments:
    there are literally no teammates here.


    OO is fine
    c&c is OK, id add piloswine though. It owns Golem 1v1.


    I can't approve this until the teammate situation is fixed. Once that is i'll approve it though
  15. FireMage

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    Added Raseri's suggestions
    Added SJ's last few suggestions
    Added WhiteDMist's suggestion.
  16. FLCL

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    [qc]2/3[/qc]
  17. FireMage

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    Treecko37 will be doing the write up. Thanks for the QC checks.
  18. ebeast

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    There are some things that should be changed before this goes into write up.

    • Things in brackets such as [SET] and [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] should be in all caps like I just listed.

    • Stone Edge should be removed from both sets and instead mentioned in Additional Comments as Rock Blast has much more utility in breaking Substitutes and Stone Edge's only real draw is the guaranteed power.

    • Capitalize Leftovers and Adamant on the Utility set. On the Custap Lead set add a space between : and the set name.

    • On Custap Lead's Set Comments you should mention why Custap Berry is a good option on Golem and how the mechanics on it works. (Activates at 25% or less HP, which works well with Study)

    • "Premature explosion can leave you very vunerable to flying types such as AcroBlim and Braviary. If you're using Golem a your check to them."
      -This part here should be removed as it doesn't really provide any vital information to the set itself and is just fluff.

    • On the Utility set mention the advantages it has over the Custap Lead set (stays around in the game for much longer and the bulk makes it a much better check to Flying-type Pokemon)

    • On the Utility set the mention of Taunt users giving Golem trouble should be reworded. Not all Taunt users give Golem trouble, (Skuntank gets destroyed by Golem) so change that to specific mentions of Taunt Misdreavus and Taunt Serperior. Mention specifically why they give Golem trouble (Missy having WoW and immunity to EQ & Serp having good bulk and STAB Giga Drain)

    • "Sap Sipper Pokémon are partners that may benefit from eating sleep powders aimed at Golem from Tangela"
      -This should be removed as it could honestly apply to any Pokemon as nothing likes being put to sleep.

    • Add Ludicolo to Checks & Counters, mentioning both Offensive and Defensive sets having an easy time with it. Offensive set must watch out for Custap Explosion though.


    Adding more to Utility's Set Comments would be good too, but Treecko can probably take it from here.
  19. Raseri

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    treecko37 is taking this over
  20. Hollywood

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    Write-up is finished. Ready for final QC check.
  21. ebeast

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    [Overview]
    • Rephrase the first few sentences to include the fact that Golem's main draw other than Stealth Rock is in being a Flying-type resist and an Electric-type immunity at the same time. Golem is actually the only fully evolved Ground/Rock Pokemon and is the best at performing this role as other Stealth Rock users such as Golurk, Metang, Piloswine, Regirock, either lack a Flying-type resist or an Electric-type immunity.

    [SET COMMENTS] (Utility)
    • Before the evs there should be evs:. In other words it should look like this: evs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spe

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] (Utility)
    • Specifically mention that 56 Speed evs is for outspeeding Shell Smash Torkoal.

    • Add how Rocky Helmet specifically punishes Flying-type Pokemon as it damages them just for hitting Golem with their physical Flying-type STAB. Mention specifically how it causes damage to Braviary and Swellow that predict the switch to Golem and U-turning out, which racks up alongside Stealth Rock damage.

    [Other Options]
    • Choice Band is not gimmicky, just that Golem is much better used purely as a Stealth Rock Pokemon due to its dual typing conflicting with other potential Stealth Rock Pokemon as well as making better use of Sturdy.

    • Add how Braviary could also potentially hit Golem hard with Superpower on the switch.


    There are also a lot of grammatical errors and a few sentences that would be better being combined. Try looking it over before GP takes a look. I won't give this the 3rd QC check in case either Zeb, Raseri, or Sweet Jesus want to take a look as well. If nobody else posts in a while, I'll stamp it myself.
  22. Hollywood

    Hollywood lesbian jonas brother
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    Implemented ebeast's changes and polished up a bit. Ready for final QC check
  23. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
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    You repeat yourself in the overview quite a bit, you mention Golem's good typing more than once when it only needs to be mentioned once.


    When you mention Rocky Helmet in AC for the utility set, it is useful for more than just hurting rapid spinners. It is a good way to do damage to Primeape / Swellow. You can come in on u-turn and where them down a lot quicker. There is also a lack of teammates mentioned on the utility set, to be fair it wasn't in the skeleton either (Firemage =/). I posted about it earlier but it wasn't done before you took it over. There needs to be good teammates mentioned in that set though.

    In c&c you cann Stealth Rock "Rocks", refrain from that.

    Content wise this is good, it just needs some prose reworking, which GP is much more qualified to help with than I am. Add some teammates to utility and this is ready to be approved.
  24. Hollywood

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    Added these changes and fixed up the wordiness in the overview. \o/
  25. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
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    [qc]3/3[/qc]

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