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Golurk, lets take a deeper look

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by StonekingZ, May 18, 2013.

  1. StonekingZ

    StonekingZ

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    Despite what I've been told, I believe Smogons Tier listing is based on usage as well as over all viability. Which is fine and dandy, really, it is. However some pokemon need to be delved deeper in to I think.

    Golurk, is definitely one of them.

    Iron fist along with his wide range of "-punch" moves is quite threatening. Coupled with Based 124 attack, it's nothing to scoff at. Learning all three elemental punches, drain punch, an amazingly scary focus punch, the risky dynamic punch, and STAB shadow punch. That alone is pretty scary if used correctly.

    However, once you move on to his dream world ability, things only get more horrifying.

    With No guard, he gets a guaranteed Dynamic punch off. Confusing and hindering your pokemon right off the bat. No other pokemon can do that but Machamp. Who has the same base speed, a slightly better attack stat, (we're talking 6 points) 1 more base HP, and 5 more in SpDef, and a better SpAtt stat (that no one uses). However, Machamp is 2 tiers above this monster.
    Yes, Machamp gets STAB Dpunch. However, all Golurk needs is land one Dpunch and spam SE or STAB Earthquake respectively, maybe setting up SR in the process.

    The only argument I've received is his middling speed, which, I agree with, however, if that is the case why is Machamp so high.

    I just want to see what everyone else thinks of this beast still being in NU.
  2. Explorer

    Explorer

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    I will say a few things on this:

    1. Ludicolo runs rampant in NU, and destroys Golurk with any STAB, especially Hydro Pump/Grass Knot.
    2. For Golurk to rise to RU, it must receive above a certain percentage of usage in the RU tier. I am not 100% sure what that threshold is. I don't see it much in RU, probably because it is so slow compared to most other things there.

    However:

    1. You are absolutely right that its movepool is fantastic. The BW2 presents of Ice Punch and Stealth Rock are much appreciated. These alongside Earthquake, Dynamicpunch, Shadow Punch, and the occasional Stone Edge give it all the coverage it needs.
    2. Golurk is semi-bulky, but SE moves can still make short work of it, from Ludicolo, Samurott, Torterra, etc.
    3. Golurk works ABSOLUTELY AMAZINGLY on Trick Room teams due to the great coverage, low speed, 124 Attack, and Dynamicpunch. Pair it with Musharna and something to hit Dark-types like Throh for an excellent offensive core.
  3. skylight

    skylight the cold never bothered me anyway
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    Ludicolo actually went down from last month, and will likely go down more as it has less opportunities to set up rain in the current metagame than it did in the previous one (unless on a dedicated rain team where the opportunity for its team to do so is there), so it doesn't necessarily run rampant.

    As to why it's still in NU outside of the usage stats (in other words why it isn't banned) is because a lot of top threats can shut it down, and generally most teams have a way of taking it down. It also doesn't overcentralise the NU metagame unlike arguably a few other Pokemon becoming more popular, and force you to carry a check or counter, or multiple checks and counters. For Golurk on the other hand, only 9 Pokemon in the S/A ranking can have issues when facing it, or have nothing to really deal with it. The same pretty much applies to the top 20 most common in the most recent usage stats (with even more Pokemon that can deal with it). With this in mind, teams can naturally find a way around Golurk without specifically having to dedicate one Pokemon to it, nor does it change the face of NU as much as other Pokemon do.
  4. StonekingZ

    StonekingZ

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    I agree 100%. Ludicolo alone can set up Rain Dance and proceed to have it's merry way with Golurk. This isn't so much a tier change suggestion, I just realized how God like it is in NU. But, that's only because I've run into about a a million of them recently. However, I can't make the judgement of usage in RU, as that's the only metagame I don't participate in. I just wanted to see where everyone stood on this monster.

    Plus, I wasn't completely sure how in depth people have gotten into how versatile he is as a whole.
  5. vyomov

    vyomov

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    Well, personally Golurk is one of my favorite mons. Just coming on an Electric Type, force it out with threats of 124 Atk Earthquake, either Substitute or Rock Polish and proceed to sweep. Surprisingly nobody uses the Rock Polish set: it's actually quite effective at pulverizing stuff.
    Another set I like to use is Gravity. Just the shock when Eeleektross is OHKOed by Earthquake satisfies me. Apart from that, the Gravity set allows it to pair with another wallbreaker: Hustle Zweilous. Hustle Zweilous with Gravity just slaughters stuff, it's not even funny.
    So, yeah,Gravity Golurk deserves a spot on the site because it can be VERY effective.
  6. StonekingZ

    StonekingZ

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    Again, I agree. After looking into all the moves it learns. I saw it learned gravity, and that is also a bit of half a No Guard in disguise. Not really since you can still miss, however, I think my point is clear. He has bad weaknesses, yet awesome resistances. I know he doesn't fair up to some of the threats in RU, however, as I stated, this isn't me trying to convince everyone he should be shot up a tier, I just want to see what everyone thinks of him. As he really is Machamp with a different typing.
  7. GOthee

    GOthee

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    It depends also in the current meta, even if he has the stats and moves to be a higher tier, if the higher tier environment is not good for him he cant get more usage in taht tier because he sucks there.
  8. StonekingZ

    StonekingZ

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    Haha, Golurk doesn't suck in any tier my friend. . .
  9. Punchshroom

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    Yeah, but those weaknesses combined with his speed means he'll struggle with a good amount of opponents in said tiers (he spinblocks poorly in the upper tiers). The Ground typing may be a boon to him offensively, but being a big target for the likes of Samurott, Serperior and Jynx really stunts his otherwise respectable bulk.
  10. vyomov

    vyomov

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    Speaking of upper tiers, if only Golurk had a LITTLE more speed it would be an excellent Terrakion counter.
  11. Punchshroom

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    What, why? Golurk would want waaay more speed to be the Terrakion counter you'd want it to be.

    Enough about OU, we're here to talk about how Golurk fares in NU. Yes, Golurk hits very hard. Yes, Golurk's No Guard can be annoying to face. However, keep in mind that Golurk also faces risks from using this abiity, as Will-o-Wisp, Hydro Pump and Rotom-F's Blizzard will ultimately cripple him without fail. What I really don't get is why you're (StoneKingZ) comparing Golurk with Machamp in terms of their miniscule stat differences and then stating that Golurk should be in the same league as Machamp. Why?? Machamp has STAB in his Dynamicpunch, and can run coverage moves to fully support it; Golurk wants its STAB move(s) alongside a complementary coverage move as well, and since Dynamicpunch isn't your main attack and has poor coverage with Earthquake (Dynamicpunch boasts perfect neutral coverage with Shadow Punch, but the latter is weaker without the Iron Fist boost), Golurk isn't as effective at this role. Let's not forget that Golurk has 5 weaknesses that comprimize his bulk, while Machamp only has to worry about 3 types (weaknesses and Ghosts), one of which (Flying) is not known for being particularly bulky.
  12. Hollywood

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    Regardless, since we're talking about Golurk in NU, let's discuss what makes it good here! [:

    While yes, Golurk may be weak to Ice, Grass, Water, Ghost, and Dark-types moves, it is also immune to three different types and resists another three (Electric, Fighting, Normal and Poison, Bug, Rock, respectively). It has a host of both weaknesses and resistances which can be both good and bad for Golurk. One of the main issues is that Grass and Water-types are pretty common in NU, while Ice is a very commonly represented type for the purpose of coverage. The benefit, however, is that Normal and Fighting-type attacks are all very popular in the tier. And having a Pokemon that can halt the initiative of VoltTurn teams is always welcomed.

    In addition to its typing, Golurk has both solid bulk and great physical attack. Golurk is a very difficult Pokemon to switch into due to its 124 base Attack. With two great abilities in Iron Fist and No Guard, Golurk is guaranteed to be a pain in the ass for your opponent.

    Probably the coolest thing about Golurk is the fact that it is a pretty easy Pokemon to switch in, and it's hard to switch into it. This means that in spite of its middling Speed, it can still provide initiative for offensive teams.

    Anyways, Golurk is an overall very cool mon with quite a few viable options for it to run. 10/10 Pokemon would use again.
  13. Infernis

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    I use Golurk on many of my offensive teams, and my sets tend to amplify this quality. Why? Choice Band! Golurk is bulky enough to tank a hit or two, and with base 124 attack and Iron Fist, his Ice Punch is actually 20% more powerful than Sawk's! Earthquake is still very powerful, when you can get it off. Shadow Punch will absolutely destroy Misdreavus and Musharna. Drain Punch can give him enough health to come back later in the match or keep on swinging. If you're feeling dangerous, Thunder Punch can absolutely wreck water Pokemon that can't quite OHKO Golurk. SD Samurott got you down? Kill it instantly when otherwise it'd get a free boost. Most of his attacks have immunities, so you have to predict well in order to let Golurk shine. Use the move that will be effective on the Pokemon on the enemy's side this round, not necessarily the one there at the moment.

    Oh yeah, and it can OHKO many Ludicolo with Shadow Punch after rocks. Not much can safely switch in to The Iron Giant.
  14. StonekingZ

    StonekingZ

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    Haha, when did I say Golurk needs to be up there with Machamp? As a matter of fact, I believe in every single one of my posts I said that is NOT what I am doing and I am just trying to see what people think of this monster. As for me using Machamp, I'm using him as a basis of how hard this thing hits, and comparing his stats. I'm not saying he needs to be up there right a long side him, I'm just saying they have similar stats. So that's the exact reason why I'm comparing the two, because their stats are so close together. I'm not saying they're equal in every way, I'm putting his power into perspective. . . Did you read any of my posts. . ? Just curious.
  15. GOthee

    GOthee

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    Since we talking about Nu now yes, thats why is the most used pokemon according to last month stats. His high Attack and strong moves makes him a formidable attacker and with his other support moves he can help your team a lot. I am hoping for him to be THE NEXT BEST THING So we cac theoricraft and create more interesting sets for him.
  16. NfskMjmMal

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    To answer someone's question, a Pokemon needs a 3.41% usage or higher in the tier above to be moved up.

    61 | Golurk | 2.28280%

    Golurk actually used to be RU (I'm pretty sure), but it quickly dropped back down. The number of RU Pokemon that can outspeed and OHKO Golurk is pretty large, including the two best spinners, Kabutops and Cryogonal (the latter needs a little hazard support, but still).

    Anyway, back to NU.

    1 | Golurk | 18.06659%

    Obviously Golurk is a great Poke. Again, its problem is that it's slow and OHKOed by many elemental attackers. Its typing is both really beneficial and harmful to it at times. It has awesome power by NU standards and can handily beat and spinblock the two popular NU spinners.
  17. panamaxis

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    Why is it still NU? It's slow and weak to dark / ghost / water / grass / ice. Yeah he's a great pkmn at what he does but those flaws stop him from being overpowered in NU.
  18. Eevee General

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    Can we give it a Choice Scarf?
  19. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    @The Eevee General
    Choice Scarf on Golurk is not a good idea whatsoever. Even though it somewhat helps with its middling speed, Golurk does not have a high enough base Speed to outspeed base 95 Pokemon such as Primeape, Jynx, Sawsbuck, Haunter with an Adamant nature which makes it even weaker than it would be without a boosting item. There are much better revenge killers out there such as Scarf Primeape or Scarf Jynx and Golurk role is more fitted to being a pivot capable of hitting hard with its perfect coverage and being able to check a bunch of Pokemon such as Primeape, Sawk, Electric-type Pokemon, Metang, Regirock and the like.

    Anyways, Stealth Rock Golurk is a pretty good set, but my favorite set to run on it has to be Choice Band. Golurk is extremely powerful and can use the resistances and immunities it gains from its Ground/Ghost typing alongside its good 89/80/80 defenses to get free opportunities to smash something. CB Earthquake is way too strong, capable of 2HKOing 252/252+ Alomomola after Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes and breaking past resistances such as Ludicolo and Serperior. For everything else you have Shadow Punch and Ice Punch with Drain Punch being useful as a middle-man option as well as giving Golurk recovery.
  20. StonekingZ

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    Well, I wouldn't say it would stop him from being overpowered, it just makes him able to check. And being overpowered has nothing to do with that. It's just a poke you have to prepare for, otherwise, it will punch holes in teams.
  21. Harbinger of Peace

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    Choice Scarf Golurk is too slow to be effective, but a Rock Polish set may work. Rock Polish allows Golurk to outspeed almost everything without a scarf, and can be a decent late game cleaner with it's powerful attacks boosted by Iron Fist.

    Golurk is also one of the best Stealth Rock Leads in NU, being able to force other SR leads out, or hit the opposing lead for SE damage, or even Dynamicpunch the opposing lead to potentially stop them from setting up rocks.

    Golurk is a very good pokemon in NU, but with its weakness to common attacks and middling speed, don't expect it to move out of NU. (Although it is usable in other tiers.)
  22. zwab

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    Actually, I recently made myself a new team, and I'm getting my rain dance up almost every game, now I'll admit, some of my opponent's aren't the best, because I'm not especially great myself, but something I am finding really helps create more rain dance opportunities is my dual screens natu, getting the appropriate screen up makes hard switching to ludicolo and setting up that rain dance very doable. (This team has ludicolo on there as a standalone late game sweeper, it's not a dedicated rain team by any stretch of the imagination).

    As for Golurk overall, I feel like it's a great pokémon and is easy to see why he's #1 in usage in NU, with all the normal and fighting moves going around, the fact that he resists u-turn, is immune to the occasional volt switch, and hits like an absolute truck with a choice band, all while spin blocking and having great bulk. Whilst it can do all this however, I have no idea what the RU metagame is like, so I'm not sure if golurk's talents would have any good use in RU.
  23. Kierany9

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    Golurk is pretty darn amazing. With great power, amazing bulk and a nice type, Golurk is incredibly hard to deal with. No-Guard Dynamic Punches, Iron Fist Shadow Punches let it be an amazing sweeper whereas it can set up rocks and spinblock as support.

    If there's one thing I find weak about Golurk is the overestimation of it's defences. Sure, it can set up SR or go in for Rock Polish but by withering its health down with poison/burn/SR, many Pokemon can OHKO it before it has a chance to do anything. The main issue is letting Golurk set up. Once it has a sub/Rockpolish then you're done for. However, hitting it before it sets up with a powerful attack that Golurk is weak to can 2HKO it(OHKO after hazards), meaning it has to switch out or die. My current team has a specially offensive Raichu(With Air Baloon) that pretty much decimates Golurk with Surf. Golurk is slower and has trouble OHKOing Raichu because it has an Air Baloon.

    Golurk is an incredible Pokemon with amazing typing, great bulk and unholy power, but its sluggishness and weaknesses are what stops it from being the next Machamp. Its home is in NU and it does its job well here.
  24. ebeast

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    [13:41] <ebeast> !usage golurk ru
    [13:41] <TIBot> #58 in RU | Usage: 3.04794%

    Golurk is getting close to becoming RU again. So I want to ask this: How do you think the metagame would change without Golurk. Ignore the potential Mandibuzz and Klinklang drops and potential loss of Alomomola. By analyzing how NU would be without Golurk, it also shows the influence it had on the tier.
  25. Robust Raichu

    Robust Raichu

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    Hmm... I think Golurk's interesting resistances and immunities have a huge impact on the metagame. I'm hesitant to say whether or not that it's an overpowered influence but I think we need to go beyond weaknesses and what can take Golurk down and look at momentum. Does Golurk's ability to sponge and then dangerously set up against choiced electric and normal moves unbalance the metagame or does it provide a much-needed check to dangerous Pokes like Eelectross?

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