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Gonna Conk You Up (Peaked #1)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Halcyon., Jun 5, 2013.

  1. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Certified Lumberjack
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    1,580
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    GONNA CONK YOU UP!

    Proof of ladder ranking. I actually managed to get to 23-3 before I lost again, knocking me from #1.

    Hello Smogon! Welcome to my second Rate My Team. Like the last one, this team was based around a powerful Fighting type Pokémon. However, this one is much more underrated. This particular Pokémon has a bit of a sad story. A long time ago, there was a lonely first stage Fighting type that was considered to be pretty weird looking and weak. It was never used very often. This little Pokémon, wishing to grow stronger so that others might accept it, went to train in every dojo it could find. It trained in caves, in forests, on the tops of mountains, and in the grasslands. Eventually, it evolved, and became a fearsome opponent for the everyday trainer. But competitive trainers, though initially seeing its potential, soon began to laugh at it even in its final stage. It used to be known as a pretty good 'mon! It has a monstrous attack stat, great ability, and a movepool that, while shallow, works for it. In the past, it used to strike fear into the hearts of those who dared to face it. Though some say it looks a bit derpy (and some go as far as to say it looks stupid), I think its appearance is endearing, and just goes to show how powerful it is. It doesn't need to look pretty. You certainly won't when it's through with you. That's right, this amazing Pokémon is none other than...

    [​IMG]


    PSH, YEAH RIGHT.

    [​IMG]

    GTFO


    [​IMG]At a Glance[​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [​IMG]Teambuilding Process[​IMG]
    Show Hide


    [​IMG]
    A common misconception is that Conkeldurr's best set is his Bulk Up set, which is probably why so many people think Conkeldurr isn't worth putting on an OU team. In case you were wondering, the Bulk Up set is just not worth it. It takes a turn to set up before it can do anything (which is a lot to ask for in a metagame where the majority of games are <20 turns), and it has to sacrifice a move slot that could be better used for coverage. Nope. Don't use Bulk Up. And I don't much like Flame Orb/Toxic Orb sets either. It's true that they absorb status, which is really useful, but I feel like they kill themselves off way too easily with the constant -12%. The best set to use right now is, in my opinion, the Sheer Force set Lavos Spawn recently posted in The Next Best Thing Thread in the OU Forums. This is the set I chose to use. I knew using this set would instantly make me weak to Volcarona, so my next Pokémon would somewhat alleviate that weakness.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    I chose Keldeo, as I said before, to help deal with Volcarona. Scarf can outspeed and 2HKO easily with Hydro Pump, and OHKO after Rocks. It also just so happens that Keldeo is the best Scarf user in the tier right now, and provided me with a shakey answer to rain boosted attacks, which is one reason I chose Keldeo over something more reliable, like Terrakion. I also thought it would be great to have something that could more easily deal with Landorus-T and Gliscor, which Conk can annihilate with Ice Punch, but Landorus-T loves playing switching games, and Gliscor can suck a big one (I don't like Gliscor). Next, I realized I would have big problems with Psychic types, especially Lati@s. And there's one Pokémon I knew could take care of them, no problem.

    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG]

    Tyranitar is a fantastic Pokémon, and it makes a pretty decent partner to Conkeldurr and Keldeo. It is already well known how Tyranitar can help Keldeo, by trapping Jellicent, Celebi, and Lati@s, clearing the way for a Hydro Pump/Surf sweep. But Conkeldurr also appreciates these Pokémon being taken out, especially Lati@s. Though all of these Pokémon can be taken out with the appropriate coverage move, they also all present a threat to Conkeldurr. Tyranitar eliminates any possibility of them being a problem, short of me switching into a Specs Surf from Latios.

    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    I needed a better check to some hard-hitting Psychics like Alakazam and Reuniclus, as well as a slightly better answer to Gengar. Jirachi was the perfect answer. It could spread paralysis, which Conkeldurr just loves, as well as passing huge Wishes, which everything loves. I was also considering Jirachi for being a SR setter, since everything appreciates the extra damage. So Jirachi seemed like the perfect member of my team. At this point, I noticed a bit of a Garchomp weakness (Keldeo can only deal with it semi-reliably) so I decided to add another member to help deal with it, as well as things like Thundurus-T, Landorus, and Tornadus, which could be a pain without some sort of backup check.

    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Mamoswine is a really great Pokémon in today's meta. It became my official Stealth Rock setter, which freed Jirachi up to use Protect, giving it a better way of recovering lost health, as well as scout choiced enemies. Ice Shard was also a very useful move to have, as it gave my team double priority, and a better way to make sure Landorus, Thundurus-T, and Dragons would think twice before trying to set up. I noticed I was still a bit specially weak though, so I decided my last member should be a bulkier check to these threats.

    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Latias is also amazing. She deals with all the threats I mentioned before, as well as giving me an ok check to sun and rain Pokémon like Venusaur and Keldeo. Not only does she check all those things, she makes a great offensive pivot. I chose the Life Orb set because I thought having a powerful Psychic type of my own could be useful for taking out opposing Fighting types, as well as Tentacruel. Latias has made a great team member, and definitely pulls her weight. Plus she's so damn cute, how could I possibly say no?


    [​IMG]The Team[​IMG]

    Orange=Testing
    Red=Definite Change


    [​IMG]

    Mr. Wiggles (Conkeldurr) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Atk / 120 HP / 136 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Drain Punch
    - Ice Punch
    - ThunderPunch
    - Mach Punch


    Like I said before, I think Conkeldurr gets a bad wrap because people don't know how to use him. After making this team, I can say with 100% certainty that the Sheer Force set is the one people need to use if they have any doubts about Conkeldurr's viability in OU. This thing really is fantastic. It's a great wall breaker, having ways to deal with many common cores such as Celetran, SkarmBliss, the one-man-wall Landorus-T, and FerroCent/FerroCruel. It makes it much easier for other things on my team, like Keldeo and Latias, to clean up after he has demolished the opponent's team. Drain Punch is the STAB move of choice, healing up Conkeldurr when Life Orb Recoil and Sandstorm damage have taken their toll. It is the main move you'll be using if Ice Punch or ThunderPunch isn't super-effective on the Pokémon in front of you. Ice Punch hits Celebi, Salamence, Lati@s on the switch, Landorus-T, and Gliscor. It also has the very neat ability to OHKO Dragonite through Mulitscale! This is especially useful when people try to get cheeky and send out Dragonite as a lead before I can get Stealth Rock up. ThunderPunch deals with the would-be counters like Jellicent, Tentacruel, and Skarmory, as well as hitting Politoed for huge damage. I have to be careful with Politoed, though, because Choice Specs sets can OHKO with Hydro Pump , and all variants out-speed me. ThunderPunch can also hit Vaporeon, an extremely annoying wall in the rain, for a 2HKO. mach Punch is for revenging weakened Terrakion, and hitting things before they have a chance to hit me back/KO me. Coming off of Adamant base 140 attack, the fact that its only a base 40 move doesn't really matter.

    [​IMG]

    Napoleon (Keldeo) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Icy Wind
    - Hidden Power [Electric]


    Keldeo is a pretty simple Pokémon. Wear things down with powerful Hydro Pumps and then clean them up later with the appropriate coverage move. Tyranitar also helps this guy a lot by Pursuit trapping most of his counters. If I'm winning a match, it's usually with a Surf-spam sweep on the opponent's last few Pokémon. Even though I wanted to use HP Ice and Surf because I can't stand Hydro Pump's accuracy, I know that, for my team, Hidden Power Electric and Icy Wind are better. The rest of my team is extremely weak to Gyarados, so I need something that can revenge kill it at +1. Keldeo does just that. Icy wind is also useful too, since I can slow down things like Venusaur in the sun and proceed to hit it again before it can get off a Giga Drain. Unfortunately, I need Venusaur to have taken some prior damage before Icy Wind is a guaranteed 2HKO, and its accuracy is just annoying enough to keep me on my toes, but it does its job, I suppose. Keldeo is still one of the best cleaners in the game, and I usually end up finishing up matches with this guys spamming either Hydro Pump or Secret Sword.

    [​IMG]

    Sharptooth (Tyranitar) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - Stone Edge
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower
    - Crunch


    Tyranitar was always one of my favorite Pokémon when I was a little kid playing Silver version on my green Game Boy Color. Not much has changed now that I'm nearing 20 and am playing on my Macbook Pro on Pokémon Showdown instead. Tyranitar is just such a great Pokémon right now. This team is essentially a weatherless team that uses Tyranitar more for his Pursuiting ability than the weather he provides. That being said, Sand Stream allows me to handle sun and rain teams much better since I can eliminate their weather starter so that their abusers are severely weakened. I replaced the Banded set with a Scarf set so I could put Lati@s in a checkmate situation (they never ever try to switch out anyway) with Crunch. It can also trap Starmie, which can be a pain in the butt otherwise. Stone Egde has the nice perk of 2HKOing Skarmory, which is always nice, and hitting foolish Politoed that try to switch in to change the weather. It can also OHKO Ninetales after Rocks even when Tyranitar is burned. Crunch is basically only used for Jellicent, which is never OHKO'd by Pursuit if it isn't switching out. Superpower is for opposing Tyranitar, and is a good way to hit things like Blissey and Chansey if Conkeldurr has already been taken out. It also hits Terrakion on the switch, but that rarely happens.

    [​IMG]

    Roselina (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Careful Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Psyshock
    - Calm Mind
    - Wish


    This slot was formerly occupied by a specially defensive Jirachi, which was meant to support the team with wishes, absorbing certain Dragon type attacks, and spreading paralysis. However, it had no offensive presence whatsoever, and was a bit of a momentum killer. Calm Mind Jirachi does all the good things SDef Jirachi did, but also provides me with yet another win-condition, and isn't setup bait. It also helpt to deal with my huge weakness to bulky Water types like Politoed and Vaporeon. Calm Mind is the crux of the set, being able to boost Jirachi's special attack and special defense to higher than fully invested SDef Jirachi, while also making him a special powerhouse. Thunderbolt, though not as nice as Body Slam or Thunder, has a heightened chance to paralyze the foe, allowing me to set up more Calm Minds, more easily pass wishes, or ease sweeping with my other teammates later in the match. Psyshock allows me ot win CM wars with Latias, Keldeo, and Reuniclus, since I can hit them on the physical side. Calm Mind Jirachi fits the team much better than SDef Jirachi did, and is a wonderful addition. Thanks Neliel and toshimelonhead!

    [​IMG]

    The Hound (Landorus-Therian) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 220 Spd / 200 HP / 88 Def
    Jolly Nature
    - Earthquake
    - U-turn
    - Stealth Rock
    - Stone Edge


    Formerly Mamoswine, Landorus-T has proven to be a much, MUCH better asset to the team. While still mainiaining Mamoswine's one and only role (setting up Stealth Rock to prevent Volcarona sweeps and discourage Gyarados switch-ins), Landorus-T also adopts a role entirely its own: Intimidate offensive pivot. Landorus-T can switch into many of the top physical threats in OU, including non-banded dragons, Terrakion, opposing Tyranitar, Lucario, and many more. STAB Earthquake is obligatory, and hits everything that isn't immune to it for, at minimum, decent damage. Stone Edge forms the nifty EdgeQuake combo that is nearly unresisted. U-turn, next to Stealth Rock, is definitely the most important move on the set. It allows me to grab momentum, while also doing nice damage coming off of its monstrous base 145 attack. U-turn makes Landorus-T's role of being a pivot much easier, since it has little trouble switching into something it walls and then U-turning on their switch, allowing me to bring in a counter for that. Conkeldurr especially appreciates U-turn, since it gives it many free switch-in opportunities. Since Conkeldurr is taking LO and sand damage, it definitely appreciates not having to take a hit on entry. Landorus-T allows him to do that and more, and is a wonderful addition to the team. Thanks Nantsuki. for the suggestion!

    [​IMG]

    Arya Stark (Latias) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 184 SAtk / 252 Spd / 72 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Psyshock
    - Roost


    Finally, we have Latias, the younger sister of the fearsome Latios. Many have said that Latios is the better of the two, but I would have to disagree. I think that, at the very least, they are evenly matched in today's metagame. Latias is one of the best ways of dealing with rain and sun, and is definitely the best offensive way of doing so. At first, I wanted to use Expert Belt ove Life Orb since Latias doesn't like having to take LO and sand damage at the same time, but since I run a bit of bulk in this set, I wanted all the power I could get. Life Orb was necessary. Draco Meteor is an extremely powerful STAB attack, and is a great way of nuking threats when I need to. Psyshock allows me to KO major threats like Keldeo and Terrakion in the sand. I used to have Psychic in this slot, but without Psyshock, I can't do anything at all to Blissey that want to switch in on a predicted Draco Meteor. Hidden Power Fire is my main answer to Forretress, non-rain Ferrothorn, and Scizor, though losing out on speed ties is a nasty side effect. I wouldn't be completely opposed to using Surf instead, or even Thunderbolt for Gyarados. Latias is also a great cleaner, and makes a good pair with Keldeo late-game.

    [​IMG]Notable Threats[​IMG]

    Show Hide


    [​IMG]
    Gyarados takes a huge dump on this team. Luckily for me, I haven't seen many of them, so it hasn't been a major problem so far. But it's only a matter of time before it happens. Sub DD can set up on anything that isn't Conkeldurr and sweep. Such an incredibly dangerous threat. Now I have Keldeo with HP Electric, which somewhat mitigates the problem, but Sub DD sets can still get the better of me if I'm not careful.

    [​IMG]
    Reuniclus is only really a problem if it's the Calm Mind set, since Jirachi walls the OTR set to hell and back. People say CM Reuniclus is bad, but I think it's one of the scariest things in the meta. It's so damn bulky, and with a few boosts, it can demolish my team. I can try to stall out Focus Blast with Jirachi, but that isn't very reliable. It's uncommon, but a big problem.

    [​IMG]
    Breloom is a huge pain to deal with, since Latias is the only thing I have that can deal with it, but Technician Focus Punch sets can destroy Latias after Rocks with FP + Mach Punch, and after that, it can slowly pick apart my team. Swords Dance sets can also sweep if Latias has been weakened (which isn't uncommon with sand and Life Orb). Spore is also really hard to deal with, since nothing I have likes being put to sleep.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Bulky Water types in general give my team some trouble. Conkeldurr is the only thing that hits them super effectively, and he runs a serious risk of being burned with Scald. Though I personally would never EVER try to burn a Conkeldurr, fearing Guts, I've noticed people don't share my fears. I've even considered using Thunderbolt on Latias just do better handle these things.

    [​IMG]

    Rotom-W can be a real thorn in my side. I don't have any Grass type moves on my team, so I can't hit it super effectively, meaning Conkeldurr's Drain Punch is the best thing I have to hit it with (short of Latias's Draco Meteor, but they usually just swithc in their Scizor in that case, and then I'm boned). Conkeldurr isn't safe against it though, since offensive variants can really dent him with Hydro Pump, and bulkier ones can cripple it with Will-O-Wisp. Not a major threat, but it's definitely an annoying one.

    [​IMG]

    Sub Disable Gengar is nearly impossible for me to handle. Nothing on my team can adequately deal with it. Jirachi would normally wall Gengar, but it can simply disable my Iron Head. And I'm not entirely sure...does Protect stop Disable from working? I've never tired that, but either way it's still a pain. Conkeldurr can hit it with both of its elemental punches, so it has a chance, but Gengar usually doesn't even bother trying to disable him, rather, it just immediately goes for the Shadow Ball. Not really sure how do deal with this thing.



    [​IMG]Conclusion[​IMG]

    I've been extremely satisfied with this team. Over all the alts I've used it on, I've reached a total of 40 wins with only 5 loses (the ones still on my MagicMaaaan alt), and I've never had this much success with a team, and I've certainly never come even close to the #1 spot before. Yes, I realize that the ladder being reset the other day probably contributed to this, but I'm still really proud of the tem as a whole. I'm so glad I decided to use Conkeldurr, and I hope maybe this team will help other people realize that he is really useful. With that in mind, I hope that the rates you all have don't try to change Conkeldurr. If you see that Conkeldurr is somehow taking away from the rest of the team, then I will consider changing it, but only if there aren't other changes that could be made first. Other than that, I am completely open to criticism, and I thank you in advance for any advice you might have! I hope you like the team and appreciated the presentation. Thank you!

    Shout-outs to Lavos Spawn for the set, Gary2346 for getting it through my thick skull how good it is, Don Honchkrorleone for being hilarious and suggesting I do shout-outs at all, False Sense for keeping a level head and putting up with my shiz, and Tabuu for inspiring me to build a team that will kick his butt next time we battle ;)

    AND SHOUT OUT TO MARK FOR BEING A SEXY BEAST. ILY SHOOTINSTARMIE <3

    Also, I almost forgot! Thanks to Curseoftheradio for the awesome picture at the top.

    [​IMG]Importable[​IMG]
    Show Hide
    Mr. Wiggles (Conkeldurr) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Atk / 120 HP / 136 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Drain Punch
    - Ice Punch
    - ThunderPunch
    - Mach Punch

    Napoleon (Keldeo) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Icy Wind
    - Hidden Power [Electric]

    Sharptooth (Tyranitar) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - Stone Edge
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower
    - Crunch

    Roselina (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Careful Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Psyshock
    - Calm Mind
    - Wish

    The Hound (Landorus-Therian) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 220 Spd / 200 HP / 88 Def
    Jolly Nature
    - Earthquake
    - U-turn
    - Stealth Rock
    - Stone Edge

    Arya Stark (Latias) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 184 SAtk / 252 Spd / 72 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Psyshock
    - Roost


    Last edited: Nov 7, 2013
    Jaiho likes this.
  2. George Eliot

    George Eliot

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2013
    Messages:
    104
    Hey :) Great team, SF Conk is stupidly underused. The only change I can think of actually makes the team more boring on the whole, but anyway; NP Pass Celebi > Latias, SF Lando > Mamoswine and SR on Tar gives you some more reliability in your win conditions (+2 Keldeo + Agility Lando), and does much better against every threat listed except Bounce Gyarados. Though, tbh my main reason for suggesting this isn't to cover those threats, it's because I think Mamoswine is unnecessary on this team and Lando is broken. Something to think about anyway.
  3. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Certified Lumberjack
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    1,580
    Thanks for the rate George Eliot! It's true, Mamoswine is definitely the weakest link on the team. While I'm hesitant to give up the Choice Band on Tyranitar, I suppose using a SDef set with Stealth Rock gives me more survivability, and would allow me to run Fire Blast, helping against Ferrothorn. I'll give it a shot. I'm probably going to keep Latias, though. Celebi is fantastic, but I feel like the team prefers the offensive role that Latias plays more than it would the utility role that Celebi offers. If more people suggest it, I'll reconsider, but for now Latias is probably going to stay. Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it!
    Jaiho likes this.
  4. Leftiez

    Leftiez *Stars*

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,148
    Hi there.
    It is a very interesting team you have there, I can't really rate your team because it seems very correct, but I see several weaknesses, Gyarados is your main threat, you can do nothing against him if he set up with Dragon Dancer, you are obligated to keep Conckeldurr and if the opponent uses Substitute, you lost, your only way is to rotate with Jirachi on Bounce, but it's not easy because if the opponent anticipates it is over... I do not suggest to change a pokemon to Gyarados, but I notice that you have Keldeo Scarf with Surf + Hydropump, I suggest then to sacrifice one of the moves (least useful) for Hidden Power Electric + Icy Wind, with Hidden power Electric you can come directly to Gyarados because Keldeo stands up well against Waterfall if the opponent uses bounce you can switch on Jirachi, normally Gyarados is OHKO by Hidden Power electric but if he resists he therefore died with the SandStorm, you have nothing to worry about, and you have Icy wind for revenge kill Salamence-Garchomp-Dragonite...

    Then I see a small weakness against Terrakion right? You'll tell me that you have Conckeldurr for revenge it kill but we must therefore support for tank Close Combat or Stone Edge, Latias is 2HKO by Stone Edge of Kion Bander and Jira is 2HKO by Close Combat, is very weak as support, then conckeldurr is Life Ober so he can die easily with LO + TSS, I noticed that you possess Mamoswine, but it is useless in your team, you have Latias to kill Venusaur/Thundurus/Landorus-i and then after placing Stealth Rock it serves more to nothing, I will you suggest to Mamoswine, Landorus-T, Landorus-T is a very good pokemon for your team, it can easily place Stealth Rocks but it can also come on Salamence-Dragonite-Terrakion / Lucario/Jirachi with its ability "Intimidate" and a lot of physical sweep easily, It does all the work of mamoswine and then now you possess a support to kill Toxicroack, because he could 6-0'd you after Sword Dance.

    Landorus-T (open)
    Landorus-T (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 220 HP / 68 Def / 220 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Toxic
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
    - U-turn


    With this spread you can easily outpseed Toxicroack Full speed Jolly and revenge kill him sadly, then you have a lot of bulk to tank 3 Stone Edges of Terrakion Bander after intimidate ;)

    Hope I Helped and Good Luck with your team.
    ~Nantsuki.
  5. victinivcreate1

    victinivcreate1

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Messages:
    139
    This is a GREAT team. The highest Ive peaked is 12 (and that was 2 days ago, when the showdown server kept resetting so I used that to my advantage. With Fertile Lands, i quickly plowed thru most, as no one had a Lando check).

    As for a rate, the only think I would change is on Keldeo, swap HP electric for Ice (like u said, to better own Gyarados) and Icy Wind for Surf. That way you still maintain great coverage, and honestly IMO, most 4x ice weaks are getting OHKOed by Icy Wind after SR, bar Garchomp.
  6. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Certified Lumberjack
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    1,580
    @VictiniVcreate Sigh...ok. I knew it was going to have to happen eventually. I will use Keldeo with HP Electric and Icy Wind, though I know I'm desperately going to miss Surf ;_; thanks for the rate, though!

    @Nantsuki I actually really like that idea! Landorus-T is great right now, and U-Turn would be really helpful for grabbing momentum and getting Conkeldurr in safely. I assume you meant to put Stealth Rock over Toxic, though, since you mention how Landorus-T is a suitable SR setter that can replace Mamoswine. Also, I've never used that EV spread, but it seems interesting so I'll definitely be giving that a shot. Thanks for the rate!
    Jaiho likes this.
  7. The Tyranitar

    The Tyranitar

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Messages:
    150
    Hey Halcyon,
    This is a cool team and thanks for rating my team. Anyway, I like the use of Conkeldurr it is really underrated I agree. Overall this is a solid team and I would advise using HP electric over HP ice on Keldeo. That deals with most of the threats on your list and I think it would benefit the team a lot. You still have trouble with Sub DD Gyarados but its an improvement on the threat level. Perhaps you should use Icy wind on Keldeo if you like the coverage, but if you like surf just keep it. Anyway cool team and congrats on the peak!
  8. Hydro Pimp

    Hydro Pimp

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2012
    Messages:
    34
    I'm not a fan of the "peaked #1". It's technically true, but it's because the ladder just reset and laddering was really easy.

    That said, I do like the team. I agree with previous posters about the Gyarados weakness and how to fix it, but I understand the reluctance to get rid of Surf. I hate having to rely on Hydro Pump as well.

    Here's my main suggestion: with your Conkeldurr, would you consider changing Sheer Force to Iron Fist? All your moves are punching moves, so while it would make Conkeldurr slightly weaker (a 20% boost instead of a 30% boost), it would let you reap the rewards of Drain Punch, would will help Conkeldurr stay alive, and wouldl give Mach Punch the boost that it doesn't get from Sheer Force. You'd have Life Orb Recoil, but Drain Punch should offset that nicely. Haha Iron Fist is the ability that I think is criminally underused on Conkeldurr.

    Oh, one more thing: I LOVE your nicknames.
  9. shinylugia49

    shinylugia49

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    28
    I know how much you want surf but having hp electric with icy wind is just overall way better for your particular team and hydro pump has higher avg damage: say you do surf ten times since it has 100% it'll do 950 damage (95x10) Hydro pump with it's 80% accuracy means it'll most likely hit 8 times it'll do 960 damage (120x8)
  10. Vertex

    Vertex

    Joined:
    May 2, 2013
    Messages:
    459
    @Hydro Pimp

    Laddering is just as simple on a non-reset ladder. It depends who starts laddering first, but even then, a #1 Peak - 2113 for example has nothing to do with a reset ladder, unlike #1 Peak - 1844

    _____________________________________

    Sup!

    This team is great, and I like the use of Sheer Force Conkeldurr; needs more usage. Congratz on your peak as well!

    • This team is great, but Venasaur gives this team trouble, as well as other Chlorophyll users. I'd recommend using a Choice Scarf on Tyranitar. You have the ability to outspeed Venasaur, which can sweep your team at +2 and defeat Ninetales much more easier. LO Starmie can KO Tyranitar with Hydro Pump with little prior damage, before Tyranitar can Pursuit, but now you can outspeed it. Other examples are Espeon, the Lati Twins, Gengar, and Jellicent. There more like Chandelure, but I'll stay with the most common. You can even trap + kill a weakened Politoed. Tyranitar has no business with Alakazam regardless.
    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar | Choice Scarf | Sand Stream
    Jolly | 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Pursuit | Stone Edge | Fire Punch | Crunch

    • Gonna recommend Hidden Power [Electric] + Icy Wind. It seriously helps v. Gyarados
    • Go with U-Turn over Protect in my opinion for Jirachi. It helps instead of switching to the recipient of Wish because the next pokemon might not be able to take damage, and is good for gaining momentum. When healing yourself, Jirachi is bulky enough to take a hit, and can use hax instead.
    Good Luck n_n
  11. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Certified Lumberjack
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    Ok so I have a couple of things to respond to, it seems.

    Thanks dude, and not a problem at all, hope I was able to help! Yeeeeaaaah, as much as i didn't want to, I switched Keldeo to the set you and many other have suggested. It's definitely a better fit for my team, even though HYDRO PUMP SUX. Thanks for the rate, man :)

    In response to the ladder thing: pretty much what Vertex said. the only reason it might have been easier for me to ladder is because certain players might not have been on since PS was being shakey all weekend. The ranking was still what it was, regardless of it being reset. HOWEVER, saying that that team peaked #1 isn't supposed to be meant as "lol guys look at how gud I am." Rather, it's meant to show that I'm not just talking out my ass here, and that the team has shown good results in practice.

    But that's not important, onto the rate.

    Yeah, I see the appeal in using Iron Fist, but I definitely prefer Sheer Force. Like you said, I'd be taking LO recoil every time I used any move, which really sucks, especially in the sand, and I usually click ThunderPunch and ice Punch over Drain Punch anyway, due to the fact that few Fighting-weak Pokémon ever switch in on Conkeldurr. Still, I suppose it's worth a test. Thanks for the rate, man, and thans for getting all of my nicknames :P

    Yep, I changed it. Even though I don't want to lol.

    You know, I was actually considering ScarfTar myself. I'm definitely going to give it a shot. It seems like it would fit the team really well and help me deal with things like Starmie much MUCH better than I can now. As for U-turn over Protect, I like being able to have guaranteed healing and the ability to scout Choiced Pokémon, but momentum is always cool, so I'll try it. Thanks for the rate, man!
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  12. Hydro Pimp

    Hydro Pimp

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    It is easier to attain really high ranks after a reset actually. I'm number 10 on the ladder right now, with a rating of 2203 (the name's Water Tribe). Before the reset, my best was number 86 with a rating of 1921. That's quite a difference, and it's with the same team. In my laddering since the reset, I've noticed that people I play with ratings over 1900 often have teams and play like regular 1500 players. The reason this is so is because a lot of the better players haven't climbed the ladder yet, so at the beginning of a reset, winning is easier. The effect continues for a while because if most 1900s should be 1500s, then high level games can still match you up against a low-skill player, and low-skill players continue to climb against other low-skilled players. It will take time for the ladder to stabilize. If you look at the ladder, you'll notice a lot more super-high ranks (2100+) than before, for exactly this reason.

    I'm not trying to put down Halcyon or anything, and I do think it's a very good team. I just wanted to explain the initial ladder reset effect.





    And Halcyon, yeah, that makes sense about Sheer Force if you don't actually use Drain Punch much. Haha you know what's really criminally underused? Good nicknames, and you've got 'em!
  13. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Certified Lumberjack
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    So I've been testing out Landorus-T in place of Mamoswine, and I haven't looked back. Landorus-T fits the team so much better than Mamoswine did. It is a fantastic pivot, and between Latias and Landorus-T, I can get from Pokémon to Pokémon safely and much more easily. It also has no problem setting up Rocks, and doesn't have to rely on Focus Sash. It's Earthquake also hits just as hard as Mamoswine does (I gave it an Adamant Nature instead of Jolly...sorry), but U-turn is so much more useful than Ice Shard (at least, in the battles I've had with it so far). I'll update the OP tomorrow with Landorus-T over Mamoswine. Thanks so much for the suggestion Nantsuki!
    Jaiho likes this.
  14. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

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    i tried this team on the ladder and it worked very well. i only have few suggestions to you, while you can revenge kill volcarona with keldeo, if volcarona setup a quiver dance against some of your member, it can tank an hit from keldeo and recover his hp thanks to giga drain. Imo you cant change much to solve this, but i think you can try rock slide over thunder punch on your conkeldurr to avoid being setup fodder for it. Rock slide and thunderpunch hits similar things though, so it wont change much.

    the other suggestion i have for you is to change your special defensive jirachi into a calm mind one. The reason beyond this is that imo you dont need that special defensive set here, you already have scarf tyranitar who can do most of the work special defensive jirachi already does, and its so defensive that it makes you lose momentum. Calm mind jirachi with Calm mind/ Thunderbolt / Psichic / Wish can still wishpass to your member while having chances to sweep, in particular it can beat jellicent and politoed which are a problem as you said. you can play around with your evs a bit, but i think that max hp and enough speed to outspeed mamoswine should be the best; put the rest into defense. If you feel the need of flash cannon to hit tyranitar you can try it, though i wont recommend it. Great team overall, its nice to see people using a good conkeldurr :)
  15. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Certified Lumberjack
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    You know, I while laddering, there have been times where I had considered using CM Jirachi. I think that might be a perfect fit for the team, so I'll try it out. Having Thunderbolt on Jirachi also frees me up to use Rock Slide on Conkeldurr, so we'll see if that works out too. Thanks for the rate Neliel :)
    Jaiho likes this.
  16. Juicy10

    Juicy10

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    Just played a couple games on the Ladder with this team. A few things I noticed is a pretty bad Bulky Water weakness. My only way of getting them out of the game was taking care of them late game after taking out any of their Latias counters and spamming Draco Meteors. Obviously this works, but having a better way of getting rid of them would be beneficial.

    I had a few changes from what you had up there, I preferred Banded Tyranitar to Scarf, I felt like there was no need to rely on Tyranitar to outspeed anything with Keldeo and Latias both having the ability to outspeed, revenge kill, or force switches. Also, I like the Wish-Protect idea on Jirachi, but using U-Turn over Protect might be better, as I find myself with Jirachi out a lot due to its resistances, where they just switch to something that can take it down, so the momentum switch from U-Turning out of Jirachi was really useful for me. That set for Landorus-T is interesting, I used a Bulky varient of Landorus-T, but there were a few instances where the extra speed you're packing would have helped out.

    I might continue using this team and test a few things over Conkledurr, but I wouldn't suggest a change to you as it's the center of your team. I just didn't find a lot of use for him, besides some people not expecting an Ice Punch when they bring in Landorus-T and Gliscor.

    Very nice team, it's been really easy to play with so far.
  17. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Certified Lumberjack
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    Yeah, bulky Waters can be a huge pain in the ass, but Conkeldurr does an ok job of taking them out, as does Latias, so long as the opponent doesn't have something like Tyranitar that I have to play around. I'm currently testing CM Jirachi to fix this problem, and it's going ok, though I do miss the initial bulk that SDef Jirachi already had. As for Conkeldurr, feel free to change it however you like, and if you find something that works better than Conk, I'd love to hear it, but Conkeldurr has done wonders for me. It's especially good early game, when the opponent doesn't know its set, so it gets plenty of surprise KOs, and even some not-so-surprising KOs!

    Scarf Tyranitar is here to stay, I think. It allows me to revenge Gengar and Starmie, something Banded TTar couldn't do, and it makes life a lot easier when trying to take down Lati@s. But I appreciate the input! Thanks for the rate!
    Jaiho likes this.
  18. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

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    Team is pretty solid with landorus > Mamoswine, but I would definitely try to add a few speed EVs on Jirachi. I would suggest 96 to outspeed base 80s like mamo and dragonite. When I was playing with this team, there were many times where mamo would come in on rachi and expect to outspeed only to be ko'd or flinched by iron head.

    and the keldeo/tar gifs look sick :]
  19. toshimelonhead

    toshimelonhead Raising Whitney's Miltank

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    Nice team!

    Just played against some copier who used this team. I would definitely change Tyranitar's EVs for the Choice Scarf set to Vertex's set since Scarftar needs to outspeed Starmie and the Lati twins. Definitely keep Lando-T and keep Conk's moveset the way it is--does not need rock slide to beat Volc at all. One idea for Jirachi is to change it to a bulky CM / Flash Cannon / Iron Head / Wish set, with enough speed ev's to outspeed Jolly Mamoswine. Max HP and put the rest in special defense (or special attack if you want). The set deals with most of your threatlist without opening any huge weaknesses, imo.

    Here's the set:

    I normally run Special Attack EVs but I'd test first with Special Defense EVs to keep the same special tankiness the old set had. EVs get to 290 speed for Kyurem.

    Congrats on #1!
  20. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Certified Lumberjack
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    Oh shoot! Yeah that's how it should be, I forgot to change the EV spread, and I'm currently testing a version of the team that has CM Thunderbolt, Psyshock, and Wish, but I'll try Flash cannon when I'm done with that. Thanks!

    EDIT: Ok, so I've been testing out Calm Mind Jirachi over SDef Jirachi, and I'm liking it a lot more. I don't get to flinch my opponents to death anymore, but I do get to set up in their faces and sweep, so I think it's a fair trade :P I'll update the OP as soon as I get a chance.

    Now I'm testing Flash Cannon > Psyshock
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  21. toshimelonhead

    toshimelonhead Raising Whitney's Miltank

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    I would also make sure that Lando-T is Jolly and not Adamant. Lando-T needs the speed for sure.

    Let's try to optimize Lando-T's EV spread.

    I'll start with the key threats Lando-T needs to outspeed. 278 is max Heatran. 280 is Adamant Lucario. 293 is Adamant Haxorus. 295 is Jolly Toxicroak. 298 is Timid Rotom-W. 299 is Adamant Victini and other non boosted based 100s (which they shouldn't be at anyways with the exception of Victini). 306 is Jolly Lucario. Now Lando-T has a max speed of 309, although it's not worth it to run that much speed. The chance of running into Jolly Lucario is about 23% out of all Lucario's. Multiply that by the 1850+ usage rate of 6.90742% and you will end up facing one about 1.5% of the time on the ladder. Rotom-W is much more common, and I think it would be nice to outspeed that for a quick U-Turn if you know it's not Scarfed. So, we're going to keep Lando-T's speed at 300, which means switching to a Jolly nature.

    Now for defenses. We have 2 stats worth investing in: HP and Defense. Since we have Leftovers, one option is to put Lando-T's HP at a Leftovers number and put the rest in defense. We can do this with 200 HP evs and put the rest in defense. This actually tanks CB Terra Stone Edges better (but it's negligible), but since we're doing minor nit picky things at this point it's a good thing to do.

    TL;DR: Change Lando-T's EV spread to 200 HP / 88 Def / 220 Spe with a Jolly nature.
  22. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Certified Lumberjack
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    Wow, thanks! That's fantastic, I guess I just don't have the head for optimizing sets like that. I'll add it to the OP and importable! Thanks again!
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  23. Grey Knight

    Grey Knight

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    Pretty amazing and solid team , i love those details that set it apart from a ordinary sand team like the speed investment on landorus so you can counter lucario an underused but ferocious sweeper that can caught of guard even the best players,
    but most of all i love the fact you are using an all out attacker conk witch is one of my favorite pokemon to predict with but its also the worst pokemon to face in a trick room.

    I am not trying to troll or to make laugh but agiligross can destroy your entire team after your lati@s gets one stealth rock and sand damage , it can scare your jirachi away fearing a banded earthquake while it uses agility easily outrunning and over powering all of your pokemon your only hope is to predict each move it makes until he dies from life orb recoil damage .

    i defeated this team used by someone in the high ladder just by using my agiligross, not that you have to fear metagross i think i am the only one that peaked #1 using it.
  24. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Certified Lumberjack
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    Well, aside from Metagross never being used at the top of the ladder and AgiliGross never EVER ebing used there, I don't really think Metagross is a huge problem. There's not a whole lot it can set up on. Maybe Tyranitar locked into Stone Edge, but then I can easily just switch to either Latias, Landorus-T, or Keldeo. And what set are we talking about anyway? Cause it needs Ice Punch to OHKO Landorus-T, which can dent it with Earthquake, and relying on Meteor Mash's subpar accuracy to hit 3 of my Pokémon (Tyranitar, Latias, Landorus-T), plus Landorus-T can come in as it sets up Agility (Rock Polish 4 lyf), and then Metagross can 2HKO, but Landorus-T's Earthquake + Conkeldurr's Mach Punch KOs him, not to mention he'll take himself out with LO damage if I can predict what moves he's going to use and rotate between Ttar, Keldeo, and Landorus. Yeah, it's a threat, but not one that I feel even needs to be mentioned, honestly.
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  25. TEzeon

    TEzeon I'm a ramblin gamblin dude!
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    This is a great team! Its one of those teams where I'm actually afraid to suggest any possible fixes, because I feel as though whatever I change may just end up being counterproductive. The team is so well constructed as is, and any "improvement" may just stray away from the original flow. I don't see anything being a serious threat for you with proper prediction. Congratulations!

    10/10

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