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DPP OU Goodbye Gen. 4

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by Lady Bug, Sep 30, 2010.

  1. Lady Bug

    Lady Bug
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    Jul 25, 2008
    As everyone knows, Pokemon Black and White came out like 2 weeks ago. This means I will probably never play generation 4 again unless it's for tournaments(like SPL). With all the new Pokemon and items, I doubt that hail is going to work, you never know though!

    Anyway, with the Black and White release, with this team being my best one, and with a lot of people knowing this team now, so why not make a RMT?


    Hail Stall story (open)
    I started this team as a UU team long time ago when UU and BL just merged together, it seemed to me that a hail team would dominate that metagame, so I decided to make a hail team, and I came up with this:


    It did pretty good at first, Walrein won me most of my games, but later on I realized that I need a spinner for Abomasnow and Walrein and something for Clefable, who was really a pain for this team, so I decided to use Hitmontop. Back then no one ran the Foresight + Rapid Spin set so it was really good because no one expected it. Anyway, the team was like this:


    This was my final UU hail team. After a while, Abomasnow got banned so I had to use Snover. The team was still good, though I missed Abomasnow's bulk so I had problems with stuff like Milotic. I stopped playing UU for a long time after that. Anyway, few months later Manaphy was on the suspect ladder, and the first thing I had in mind was Abomasnow, who is a really great Manaphy counter. I decided to just change some Pokemon in my UU team to make it viable on the suspect ladder, and this was my first OU hail team:


    I've used this team on the suspect ladder when Manaphy was a suspect and it was really successful. After the suspect test period was over, I tried this team on the OU ladder, and it did as good as it did on the suspect ladder. After using it for a while, I realized that I'm very weak to Infernape, and Walrein wasn't doing very good in OU because of Sandstorm, Skarmory, etc. so I decided to replace it with Gyarados


    This has been my main Ou team for a really long time and it did very well for me in tournaments(especially LNT and Smogon Tour) and on the ladder. I even posted a RMT for that team because I thought it was really good. The lack of a Steel type to resist Dragon attacks really hurt this team, I always had to play around stuff like Salamence with Intimidate and Blissey. I decided to add a steel type for it after a while. Unfortunately, the team I made with a Steel type was even weaker than this one to Dragons, especially the most dangerous one, which got banned recently. Anyway, stopped using that team after like 1 day of making it because it was REALLY weak to Salamence. After Salamence got banned, I noticed that this team wasn't doing as well, so I decided to stop using it. I noticed a team called "hail stall with skarm" when I was looking at my teams, and I remembered that I made it long time ago but never really used it. I decided to try it out to see how it's going to do without Salamence, and it did better than what I expected. Here's the team:


    This RMT is about this team. It has been really awesome recently. Anyway, most people know this team now, so why not make a RMT?


    Hail Stall #2



    PartyStarter (Abomasnow) (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Snow Warning
    EVs: 252 HP/32 Spd/224 SDef
    Sassy nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Wood Hammer
    - Blizzard
    - Protect
    - Leech Seed

    You will see an Abomasnow in any hail team of course. I'm leading with it because I want to start hail ASAP, 6% damage every turn to the opposite Pokemon is really good, especially that Ice types aren't really common in OU. 32 Speed EVs are there to outspeed Swampert leads and OHKO them with Wood Hammer before they set up rocks, even though Swampert leads are very rare these days I'll keep the 32 Speed EVs, adding them to SDef isn't really going to help me anyway.

    Without Abomasnow this team will have a really hard time against stuff like CroCune, and the 1-x comebacks with Curse Snorlax or Curse Tyranitar. With Leech Seed Abomasnow is almost always at full health, Leech Seed also helps me to against the popular Abomasnow switch-ins like Scizor, Leech Seed + Protect + SR and Spikes make stuff like it to die before they do any damage to the team.

    Abomasnow doesn't match up well against most of the leads, so here's how I deal with the 10 top leads:

    Show Hide
    [​IMG] Azelf: I go to Spiritomb and Pursuit it, Azelf can't really do much to Spiritmb. If I see them use Reflect or Light Screen and Taunt, I immediately go to Starmie to Rapid Spin the rocks and to stall some turns of Light Screen/Reflect out.

    [​IMG] Machamp: I usually go to Spiritomb on this thing to waste 2 PP's of their Dynamic punch and burn it, but sometimes I go to Nidoqueen to set up Stealth Rock/Toxic Spikes early.

    [​IMG] Aerodactyl: This one is hard to deal with as a lead, I mostly go to Skarmory on it and Brave Bird it until it dies. Sometimes I go to Starmie to spin rocks and kill it with Surf, Stone Edge does like 40% to Starmie with the defensive spread I'm using, but with the high crit ratio they will most likely crit mebefore I get to kill them and spin the rocks, so I go to Skarmory most of the time.

    [​IMG] Metagross: Skarmory again. They mostly Meteor Mash my Abomasnow turn 1 for some reason instead of using Stealth Rock, which gives me 2 free layers of Spikes because they use SR the next turn.

    [​IMG] Swampert: Abomasnow outspeeds and OHKOs it with Wood Hammer.

    [​IMG] Infernape: It really an issue for this team as a lead. I go to Starmie while they use Stealth Rock/Fake Out and spin or just use Surf in case they go to a ghost.

    [​IMG] Heatran: Same as Infernape. Only problem with this lead is if they explode on Starmie, without it I'm weak to some Pokemon like Taunt Dragon Dance Gyarados, so I have to watch out for these. The Choice Specs version uses Overheat first turn, which does around 70% to Starmie, I just recover off the damage while they switch out, and if it comes in again I just go to Blissey because Specs Heatran doesn't have Explosion mostly.

    [​IMG] Jirachi: Surprisingly, it's not hard to deal with this thing as a lead. I use Protect first turn to scout what they're going to use and then go to Nidoqueen, even if they use Stealth rock, because they will go to something like Scizor and I can get SR up on that easily. For the Leftovers lead version, I just go to Skarmory and set up Spikes on it.

    [​IMG] Ninjask: Skarmory...

    [​IMG] Roserade: I Protect on the first turn to make it lose 6% of its health, then go to Blissey to take Sleep Powder and stay in while they switch out or set up Toxic Spikes, I have Nidoqueen to absorb them anyway, so it's not really a problem.


    Sugarcult (Skarmory) (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Keen Eye
    EVs: 252 HP/24 Def/36 Spd/196 SDef
    Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Whirlwind
    - Brave Bird
    - Spikes
    - Roost

    As I said before, I only made this team because my old team needed a Steel type, so I chose Skarmory. It's not there only because it's a Steel type, it is also one of the best Spikes user and Scizor switch-ins.

    This spread is used to make it bulky in both, defence and special defence. The 36 Speed EVs are there to let it outspeed CB Tyranitar and other Skarmory's.

    Spikes is really helpful for this team, it lets me kill stuff like Roar Heatran and Swords Dance Scizor, who can do some damage to this team, easier.

    That's it really. Skarmory might not do many stuff, but it is really helpful for this team.

    New Day (Nidoqueen) (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Poison Point
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/6 Spd
    Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Fire Blast
    - Earthquake

    Nidoqueen, like any other member of this team, is really important. Without it, I lose to things like SD Roost Scizor.

    Stealth Rock to hurt anything that switches in(duh). Toxic Spikes helps me against stuff that I can't toxic with Blissey because they will weaken/kill it if I do, like Tyranitar, who is really a problem for this team team, especially DD and the mixed versions, who get screwed by Toxic Spikes. Fire Blast is obviously for Scizor and Forretress, who can set up on this team.

    This my counter to Lucario, and if Nidoqueen dies before Lucario it means I have to burn it with Spiritomb, which isn't really the best way to deal with Lucario. Nidoqueen is also my Trick switch-in, she doesn't really mind being choiced.

    Stacys mom (Blissey) (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 148 HP/252 Def/108 SDef
    Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Wish
    - Toxic
    - Protect
    - Seismic Toss

    Wish support, walling most of the special attackers, and Toxic. That is pretty much what Blissey does to this team.

    With Wish I can heal Abomasnow and Nidoqueen, Abomasnow doesn't really lose a lot of its health most of the time, but Nidoqueen is mostly at low health. Without Blissey, Zapdos can dominate this team. If I see a Zapdos I never take risks with Blissey that cause killing her, otherwise I have to burn it and stall it out with Spiritomb, who usually dies to other stuff. Toxic helps against anything that isn't a Steel or Poison type, obviously, with hail damage and poison it makes stuff die faster.

    Always (Spiritomb) (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP/30 Def/228 SDef
    Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Will-o-wisp
    - Pursuit
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    Spiritomb is one of my favorite Pokemon, but that isn't really the reason I'm using it for. I'm using it mainly because it's a ghost/ who can block Rapid Spin, and because of Gengar, who I couldn't touch at all with the previous team.

    Starmie is already a good spinner, but with this thing Pursuiting ghosts like Rotom-A, it will be an even better spinner. Though, I rarely Pursuit Rotom-A's with this, but at some points it is really needed. Pursuit is also for the biggest threat to my old version of the team, Gengar, I literally didn't have anything for Gengar with the previous version. Will-o-wisp is to cripple things like Scizor, who sometimes switch in on Spiritomb for some reason, it also helps me against DD Tyranitar with Lum Berry(after Toxic Spikes activate it). Rest and Sleep Talk are there to heal it and remove status.

    Paralyzer (Starmie) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP/120 Def/136 Spd
    Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Thunderbolt
    - Rapid Spin
    - Recover

    My team needs a spinner, so I decided to use Starmie for multiple reasons, not to spin only. It also counters Gyarados, who can be a problem to this team without Starmie.

    I'm using Bold nature with max HP and a lot of Defence to take Physical attacks better. With this spread, Scarf Tyranitar can never OHKO me with Crunch/Pursuit on the switch, which has helped me in a lot of battles. Without Starmie, as I mentioned before, Gyarados can be a big problem to this team. I have to watch out for CB Gyarados who can Payback me on the switch though, but thankfully, it's rare. With Pursuit Spiritomb, Starmie spins much easier.


    Closing words:

    I'm really going to miss using this team and hail teams in general in generation 5. I'm also going to miss generation 4, it is the first generation that I played Pokemon competitively in. Again, goodbye generation 4~


    Threat List:
    (taken from Kevin Garrett's RMT)
    Show Hide
    Defensive Threats:

    [​IMG] Blissey: It can't really do anything to my team, I usually set up SR/Spikes/TSpikes on it.

    [​IMG] Bronzong: This thing is very rare these days, but it's a good thing to set up Spikes on with Skarmory. If I don't see Leftovers on it I usually switch Spiritomb in first to see if it has Trick and Iron Ball, and I go to Nidoqueen to set up Stealth Rock if I haven't already.

    [​IMG] Celebi: Toxic Spikes really help me against this thing, especially the Leech Seed with HP Fire versions. After setting TSpikes up, it can't really do much to my team.

    [​IMG] Cresselia: This thing is not a problem at all. Skarmory sets up Spikes on it and then Whirlwinds it. If it is some kind of a Rest Calm Mind Cresselia, I keep Whirlwinding it until it's the last Pokemon, then I Leech Seed it with Abomasnow and kill it with Blissey/Abomasnow.

    [​IMG] Donphan: I don't know why KG has this on his threat list ?_? Anyway, this thing can actually do something to my team, Spiritomb can't really take Earthquakes with the spread I'm using, so it can spin easily. It will probably get ruined by TSpikes and Spikes though.

    [​IMG] Dusknoir: Spiritomb can wall it easily. I can set up Spikes on it too, I gotta watch out for Will-o-wisp if I want to do that though.

    [​IMG] Forretress: I thought it would be a problem to my team at first, but surprisingly, it isn't. I usually switch Nidoqueen in and scare it away while I Stealth Rock, and if they stay in, I can just Fire Blast it. With hail damage and SR and sometimes Spikes, it dies very fast.

    [​IMG] Gliscor: Abomasnow and Starmie can handle this thing very well. But, if they Pursuit Starmie and still have Stealth Rock up, it can be a pain. I have to play around the Taunt/Toxic versions without Starmie.

    [​IMG] Gyarados: Only defensive Gyarados I see is the Rest Sleep Talk one, unless you count bulky DD Gyarados as a defensive set. It is defensive, but you know what I mean. Anyway, it isn't a problem at all as long as they don't have SR/Spikes up, if they are, I have to predict around with Roar/Waterfall and then spin with Starmie.
    [​IMG] Hippowdon: Most of them are leads, who Abomasnow can beat. I go for Blizzard if I see them as a lead, they mostly stay in thinking I won't risk the 70% chance, I hit most of the time obviously, and it does like 70%~. I can also make it easier to kill with TSpikes. I can set ut Spikes on it too.

    [​IMG] Heatran: Defensive Heatrans aren't a problem at all, unless they have SR and Spikes up, it can Roar me to death with that, so I usually try to spin whenever I can if I see them use Roar.

    [​IMG] Jirachi: Can be a problem sometimes thanks to Iron Head flinches, but I guess every team has this problem! Anyway, mixed ones are really hard to deal with, if I know it's a mixed Jirachi, I try to get all the Spikes layers ASAP, otherwise it's going to come in freely and hurt my team. The Scarf set is easier to deal with as long as it Tricks Nidoqueen and not Skarmory. For the Calm Mind version, I have to Leech Seed it with Abomasnow before going to Blissey. a +1 Psychic will do like 40% to Abomasno, which is goodbecause Leech Seed with give me my health back anyway, but Flash Canon does like 80%, so I really need to be careful around it.

    [​IMG] Rotom-A: If I don't see Leftovers on this thing, I go to Nidoqueen to take the Trick or a choiced Thunderbolt and set up Stealth Rock then go to BLissey if they use trick. For the Leftovers versions, Spiritomb is my best bet. Pursuit helps me to kill this thing, and with that Starmie will spin easier. Most of the time it will be on a defensive/stall team, so yeah.

    [​IMG] Skarmory: Skarmory isn't a problem at all, unless they use it with something like CB Tyranitar to Pursuit Starmie. I go to Starmie on it to force it to switch out and to spin Spikes/SR. It can be a problem sometimes though, even if I have Starmie

    [​IMG] Snorlax: Not really a problem. If it's a Curse Snorlax I keep Whirlwinding it with Skarmory until it's the last Pokemon, then Leech Seed it with Abomasnow. Skarmory pretty much walls any other set.

    [​IMG] Suicune: It can't do much to my team, thanks to entry hazards, Abomasnow, and Blissey.

    [​IMG] Swampert: As a lead, Abomasnow forces it to switch out, unless they don't know about Wood Hammer(plenty of players on the ladder don't and stay in). Curse/CB are handled by Skarmory and Abomasnow.
    [​IMG] Tentacruel: Blissey counters it easily, and I have Nidoqueen for TSpikes. If I face the rare SD set, I have Skarmory to phaze/Brave Bird it.

    [​IMG] Vaporeon: Blissey, Abomasnow. I can set up Spikes on it with Skarmory too.

    [​IMG] Zapdos: Only defensive Zapdos that can cause me problems is the SubRoost one, they usually have Toxic and Thunderbolt as their moves, so I can set SR and TSpikes up with Nidoqueen easily, after that I go to Blissey to Toxic, force it to switch out etc.

    Offensive Threats:

    [​IMG] Azelf: As I mentioned before, I go to Spiritomb on Azelf. Most of them are leads, who quickly to Pursuit. If I see Light Screen/Reflect I don't switch to Starmie right away, because some of them carry Explosion over Taunt on that set, I only go to Starmie if I see Taunt.
    [​IMG] Breloom: As long as it put Spiritomb to sleep, it isn't really a problem. If they have it with something like Gengar, who makes my Spiritomb at low health and they will probably kill it without having to put it to sleep, unless it's the Leech Seed set. Anyway, if Spiritomb dies and Breloom has to put something else to sleep, it depends on the situation I'm on, I might not need Skarmory so I'll let it sleep, or I might not need Nidoqueen etc.

    [​IMG] Dragonite:
    Dragonite is a big threat to this team, not as threatening as Salamence, but it is still hard to deal with. I usually just switch Skarmory on it just to know which set they are running. I play around the mixed sets, I let Skarmory or Blissey take the Draco Meteor, then go to Starmie or Spiritomb, he can't really do much to them with -2 SpA. For the DD sets I just Whirlwind them with Skarmory, a +1 Fire Punch will hurt though. For the Bulky set with Roost and DD, I keep Whirlwidning it with Skarmory until it's the last Pokemon left, I switch to Abomasnow right when it comes in, a +1 Dragon claw from the bulky set doesn't even do 50% to Abomasnow iirc, anyway, even if it does more, Abomasnow can still live and kill it with Blizzard.

    [​IMG] Dugtrio: Not a problem really, only way it can hurt me is by weakening Nidoqueen with EQ and Stone Edging Abomasnow. EQ won't kill Nidoqueen, and thanks to SR and Spikes my EQ will be able to OHKO it. Banded Stone Edge does around 80% to Abomasnow, who is almost always at full health. Blissey easily handles it with Wish and Protect, i keep using these 2 moves until it's at low enough health that Seismic Toss will kill it.

    [​IMG] Electivire: lol. Nidoqueen can switch in on an Electric, Fighting or Fire move, which is what it's going to use against any other member of the team, it can take an EQ or Ice Punch after that and OHKO it with EQ. Spiritomb can burn it too.

    [​IMG] Flygon: Scarfed set isn't a problem at all, I keep switching to Skarmory until it eventually dies to SR and hail damage. Mixed ones can be a problem though, I deal with it the same way I deal with Mixed Dragonite.

    [​IMG] Gallade: Lead version, which is the most common set for Gallade is easily handled by Spiritomb. SD sets might be a problem, but Spiritomb can burn it, though a +2 Stone Edge will do a lot. They might not have Ice Punch or Psycho Shift on them, so Nidoqueen can be a good check for it too.

    [​IMG] Gengar: Gengar is the main reason I'm using Spiritomb over Rotom-A. I go to Spiritomb once I see a Gengar and Pursuit it just to get rid of it ASAP. If somehow Spiritomb dies and Gengar is still alive, I can go to Skarmory, no one runs Thunderbolt on this thing anymore.

    [​IMG] Gyarados:
    It didn't seem to be a problem for me, but it is hard to deal with. Only versions I have problem dealing with are CB and Taunt, if somehow Starmie is at healt lower than 50%, after a DD Taunt Gyarados can do some damage, my only answer to it will be Brave Birding it with Skamory.

    [​IMG] Heatran: It's not very easy to deal with this thing. I usually go to Starmie on it, because most of them have Stealth Rock. Starmie can take hits from Heatran and spin SR easily.

    [​IMG] Heracross: Nidoqueen is my best answer to this thing, if it somehow dies without killing Heracross, I play around it with Spiritomb and Skarmory, switch Spiritomb on CC and Skarmory on Megahorn. Entry hazards and hail make it way easier to kill this thing.

    [​IMG] Infernape: Infernape is one of the biggest threat to this team as long as it's not a lead. It outspeeds Starmie and can kill it with Grass Knot, but people switch out against Starmie anyway, because almost all the Starmies are Timid. If I see an Infernape, I try to set up TSpikes ASAP, it becomes less threatening with them.

    [​IMG] Jolteon: Jolteon can't really do much to my team. I have Blissey, Abomasnow, and Nidoqueen for it.

    [​IMG] Kingdra: Skarmory handles this thing easily, most of them have DD. For the not very common Choice Specs set, they will mostly use Draco Meteor first turn, so it won't do enough damage to kill Skarmory when I switch it in. If I see that it does a lot with Draco Meteor to Skarmory, then I will know it's a Choice Specs set and go to Blissey to take hits from it next time it comes in.

    [​IMG] Lucario: Nidoqueen pretty much walls this thing. Sometimes Nidoqueen will be under 50%, which is enough for Lucario to OHKO me after a Swords Dance and if that happens I have to either burn it with Spiritomb or Starmie with Surf after some Life Orb damage and CC drops, This Starmie lives a +2 Extreme Speed.
    [​IMG] Machamp: Spiritomb. If Spiritomb is at low health or gets critted by Stone Edge, I still have Nidoqueen and Skarmory to deal with it.

    [​IMG] Magnezone: It can't really do much to my team except trapping is Skarmory. I don't have problems with Skarmory gone as long as I get at least one layer of Spikes. Trapping Skarmory can only be a problem if they have something like Dragonite with it, and I have to play around that if I want to beat it.

    [​IMG] Mamoswine: Not an issue, Skarmory sets up on itand tspikes can cripple it. If I face the rare mixed set i have to be careful, thanks to hail their Blizzard will never miss. If they Blizzard Skarmory(which won't kill)I'll go to Starmie next turn to take the Blizzard, it can outspeed and kill it.

    [​IMG] Metagross: I just set up Spikes and phaze it with Skarmory, and hope that Spikes is going to kill it eventually. Only set that I have problems with is the Agility set, not because of Agility, but because can use Thunder Punch and Meteor Mash/EQ without being choiced. I have to rely on Spikes and Nidoqueen being at full health to take this thing down, I might sometimes burn it with Spiritomb if I have to.

    [​IMG] Porygon-Z: I have Spiritomb and Blissey for this thing.

    [​IMG] Roserade: Toxic Spike sets aren't a problem thanks to Nidoqueen. Only set that I have some problems with is the Spikes set. I can't really prevent it from setting Spikes up, so I try to kill it before it gets 3 layers at least, and then spin Spikes with Starmie later on.

    [​IMG] Scizor: Skarmory and its Spikes do a good job against this thing. Nidoqueen can also be used to stop the SD sets.

    [​IMG] Shaymin: Thanks to Toxic Spikes and Skarmory, this thing can't really do much to this team. Leech Seed sets can be problematic, but I try to switch Abomasnow in on Leech Seeds to make it lose more HP from Toxic Spikes.

    [​IMG] Starmie: This thing isn't really a big problem, I have Abomasnow, Blissey, and Spiritomb for it. I Pursuit it most of the time so it can't Rapip Spin my entry hazards.

    [​IMG] Togekiss: I don't really have problems with this thing, unless it's the Nasty Plot + Heal Bell set. It 6-0s me easily sadly.

    [​IMG] Tyranitar: Only Tyranitar set that I have problems with is DD. if I don't have TSpikes up I have to phaze it with Skarmory until I get TSpikes up, or I can Earthquake it with Nidoqueen if its health is low enough to die to EQ.

    [​IMG] Weavile: Not a problem, Stealth Rock, Spikes, and Skarmory deal wtih it. SD sets can be a problem if Skarmory dies early though.

    [​IMG] Zapdos: It's probably way easier to deal with an offensive Zapdos over a defensive one. I have Blissey for this thing, I can also burn it with Spiritomb if I couldn't Toxic it with Blissey for some reason.
    whistle likes this.
  2. Philip7086

    Philip7086 Myuu
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis a Past SPL and WCoP Championdefeated the Smogon Frontier

    Jun 23, 2008
    Yo, gen 4 isn't over yet son! WTF are you doing posting this team before the Tour ends!? Anyways, I've never understood how you were so damn successful w/ this team bro... I don't think I've ever lost to it. But man, watching you use it on ladder or in tournaments is seriously a beauty. You know how this team works like the back of your hand, and you always pull out wins in the most unlikely situations possible, so for that I really respect you and this team. You got everything checked here, so I would give you 5 stars if that system were still in tact. Instead, you're getting a Luvdisc. Congrats on your incredible success with a Hail team where nothing is even immune to hail except Abomasnow! Don't stop using this team though please, so I can keep owning it B)

    Edit: Why don't you use Ice Shard on Abomasnow for things like Mixed Dragonite, which could fuck you up? I always thought you had that.
    whistle likes this.
  3. afterburn

    afterburn false evidence appearing real
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Jun 28, 2009
    Good shit. Starmie really is the glue of this team, checking the threats that would otherwise decimate this team, things like Mixed Infernape, Life Orb Heatran. Though I still think Mixed Dragonite and mixed Flygon could be troublesome, I suggested Blizzard on Starmie on IRC, but like you said, all four of its current moves are important. I'd say try out Ice Shard on Abomasnow, or you could try Rest talk Rotom-F over Spiritomb to slightly alleviate the Mixed Dragons problem.

    Other than that I don't see any weaknesses, as this is an excellent build.
  4. mtr


    Jan 31, 2009
    The definitive Hail team of the 4th generation. I honestly like the Hitmontop variant better, though, since it has an easier time against the archetypal Scarftar Stall teams that are everywhere now. Hitmontop is obviously way harder to trap and kill than Starmie is.


    Aug 9, 2007
    He Ladybug!

    Pretty interesting team, the big weakness I see is Nasty plot Infernape. it can set up on about 1/2 of your team and start wreaking havoc. It outspeeds and OHKOes, Starmie with +2 LO grass not. I would recommend Switching Starmie's nature to Timid, so that you can outspeed it before it causes a lot of problems. Anyways, a really solid team!

  6. Hawk Eye

    Hawk Eye Guest

    I really like this team good job. the team's weak to mix dragonite. but im sure you can handle it ^_^. great team!
  7. george182


    Jun 27, 2009
    Wil o wisp kinda conflicts with your poisen damage from toxic spikes. I.e you can't touch Tyranitar if it's poisned, you could always try Hp Fighting, with a speed lowering nature.


    Dec 29, 2007
    The contents of this epic novel are very boss-like.
  9. Lady Bug

    Lady Bug
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    Jul 25, 2008

    Anyway, I tested Ice Shard before. Without Blizzard, I'm even weaker to things like Gliscor, who can just Taunt and Toxic everthing, they usually use it with a Pursuiter user, so they will try to get rid of Starmie and do work with Gliscor.

    Though, it's really helpful for things like Dragonite and Flygon, but I prefer having Blizzard for Gliscor over Ice Shard for the dragons. I guess it's your choice if you want to use Ice Shard or Blizzard. Also, Blizzard hits harder!

    I really wanted to use Rotom-A over Spiritomb, but as I mentioned before, Gengar gives me a lot of trouble without Spiritomb. Spiritomb also helps Starmie to spin easier by pursuiting the ghosts.

    I was considering that. Seeing that Scarf Tyranitar isn't used as much as it was before when Salamence was around, I really don't see a reason for me to use Bold anymore. I'm going to miss the bulkiness, but I'll probably change it.

    I'm not sure why I chose to use Will-o-wisp over something like HP Fighting, but I think it was to make pursuiting Starmie easier, bulky versions usually take like 30%, so they can just keep using Surf and Recover until I have to use Rest, and they can switch out safely. I'm not going to have Toxic Spikes all the time on the field, so yeah. Besides, HP Fighting doesn't really do much to Tyranitar at all. I prefer having Will-o-wisp for the Lum Berry DD version, who can be a big problem to this team. And in case Blissey runs out of Toxic or gets trapped or anything similar to that, I still have Will-o-wisp for things like Zapdos, and my only way to deal with Zapdos is by toxicing it.
  10. Bluewind

    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Jun 28, 2009
    Hi there Lady Bug,

    I have absolutely nothing to add regarding the team itself, this is clearly the best form Hail Stall will ever assume on 4th gen. I just wanted to nitpick something: On Starmie, with a Timid nature and an EV Spread of 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 Spe; you get 4 extra Defense and the same Speed. Nothing huge, but who knows when these will come in handy. Great team =)
  11. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 10 Champion

    Jun 5, 2009
    SD Cradily weak

    Ok so anyway I've played this team a few times (once for a ST, several times on the ladder) and it is quite certainly the face of an "effective OU hail team," so congrats for that. I have but a few suggestions.

    -On Spiritomb, I suggest replacing Sleep Talk with Shadow Ball, Sucker Punch or Curse. When you use Sleep Talk, selecting Rest or Pursuit will both give you no benefit, as Pursuit does very feeble damage when the opponent stays in, especialy with no Attack investment. Even if you do select WoW, not only will it often not be an ideal move to thit the opponent with (Infernape and Heatran are two of the most common switch-ins anyway), and even if hitting it with WoW is ideal, factoring in the shaky accuracy, you only have ~25% chance of doing something productive while Sleep Talking. You could also run Pain Split over Rest if you don't like the idea of Rest with no Sleep Talk.

    -Next, I suggest you put Blizzard on Nidoqueen (if you put it over SR, shift SR to Blissey, if you put it over TSpikes, then... You don't get TSpikes). Blizzard really helps you deal with threats like DD Dragonite who can really hurt this team if Skarmory is weakened (assuming it packs Fire Punch/Fire Blast), and Blizzard Nidoqueen makes for a great check to it if it's not a LO Earthquake variant. Blizzard also hits Gliscor and Flygon, and does more damage against shit like Hippowdon (70% accuracy though) and Gengar.

    -As Bluewind said even if you want to invest more EVs in Defense than Speed, using a Timid nature yields you more stats, which can come in handy when you rely on Starmie to counter so much (Gyarados, Infernape, etc). I'd also suggest you at least test Vaporeon over Starmie, but I'm sure you're adamant about having a spinner for Obama so I probably won't even suggest that.

    Great team, one of the best of Gen IV (maybe not anymore, but when the metagame was better for it), congratulations.
  12. les gets

    les gets

    Jan 30, 2009
    this is obviously a great team with not many things to change as previous posters have already said. i second the suggestion of using ice shard over blizzard because dragons can really be a problem for this team as i'm sure you know, especially the mix ones with draco meteor, and ice shard really helps. you already have starmie and gliscor will always switch out the first time against abomasnow to check for the ice-type attack so it doesn't matter much anyways. if you think you will still have gliscor problems without blizzard, you can look for ice beam/blizzard on nidoqueen instead of probably fire blast, or possibly stealth rock if you give blissey stealth rock instead of toxic since it isn't all that important considering a lot of zapdos have substitute, which is what i assume toxic is used for mainly, and pain split rotom doesn't mind toxic that much as long as it doesn't stay in a lot and keeps pain splitting (plus a lot of those have substitute too). i like to use reflect on my resttalk rotoms when i also have toxic spikes because not only does wisp often conflict with toxic spikes but wisp and reflect basically do the same thing except reflect can support the team, and offensive attackers like lo gyara will die pretty quickly with or without the burn damage (plus reflect cannot miss). i would also move the defense evs to special defense since you have wisp/reflect, but that doesn't matter much. that's all i got, serious props for using hail for spl, tours, etc. because hail is not easy to use; it just shows how skilled you really are. good luck lady bug and i hope i helped a little!
  13. Lady Bug

    Lady Bug
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    Jul 25, 2008
    Thanks, I'll use that spread now.

    hmm... I'll go and test some moves over Sleep Talk for now, because like what you said, it wasn't really helpful really, only against Starmie. Also, I'm going to keep rest because of Toxic and Substitute Machamp.

    I was going to use Blizzard on Nidoqueen, but sadly, I need its current 4 moves, so I can't really replace it with anything. And yea, Rapid Spin is really needed. Not just for SR, also for stuff like Skarmory, who can set up on this team freely without Starmie.

    Blissey actually uses Toxic more than any other move. Without it, Zapdos can PP stall Blissey easily, and I don't want to keep using SR just to stall it out... plus it means I'll run out of PP too and won't be able to wall other special attackers. Also, when I Toxic a Pain Split Rotom-A, I just keep using Wish and Protect, since it will eventually die due to Toxic. Or I can just go to Spiritomb and spam Pursuit on it, because if it switches it will lose a lot of health, and if it stays in it will die because of Toxic.

    Anyway, I'm going to test Ice Shard again along with something else over Sleep Talk on Spiritomb, not sure what for now.

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