NU Goodbye (peaked #1)

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by Zebraiken, Dec 30, 2011.

  1. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken paradise lost
    is a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Super Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    ...as in, goodbye to this superb metagame.


    Goodbye

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Introduction

    This is my first RMT that I've posted at Smogon and I hold high expectations to myself for it, so everyone else should too. I intend to make this RMT similar to Kevin Garrett's Solum's Core, since that explained his team incredibly thoroughly and also served as a learning point to the BW metagame. Hopefully (as if anyone looks at the Other Teams subforum anyway >____>) I can catch some positive attention for NU as well as prove that this tier isn't just for people wanting to spam Beautifly/Whiscash/Pikachu, and maybe even inspire other people to take a shot at it; honestly, talk to anyone who's played NU. It's by far the most fun tier to play in right now.

    Anyway, a little bit about myself (and I guess some NU history too) to begin with. Despite my fairly recent join date, I've been battling for a long time. I stumbled on competitive battling right around the inception of Platinum, like September 2009. I was pretty much terrible at competitive Pokemon altogether. I just couldn't keep up with the level of play, even at lower ends of the ladder, so I convinced myself that I should be playing UU rather than OU (since that's what all the best players played and I wasn't good enough!). I played UU for the remainder of DPP, then messed around with BW OU for quite some time but never really getting much better. When NU came about, I decided "fuck OU" and went to scrounge about in the lower tiers. It was stupidly easy to play on the ladder then, especially since there were about five good players and the rest were scrubs using Life Orb Castform and other garbage with minimal actual usability. From then, guys like SuperPascal rejuvenated competitive value in NU, using great mons like CB Sawk, Gorebyss, Substitute Klinklang, and Mesprit. SP's RMT is a fine example of those Pokemon in action and is a team that functions well even now. More competitively competent (heh repetition) people like Ice-eyes showed up, and NU gradually earned itself a tier in DST, C&C analyses, and other cool shit.

    Goodbye was primarily created to test the effectiveness of a hazard-setting Smeargle. Until the point this team was created, people used BP Smeargle mostly, if it was even seen at all. It was hugely successful and I still deem it the best hazards abuser in the tier. Beyond that, hazards abuse was the basis of this team, and through some guesswork I stumbled upon a really solid defensive core and two really effective sweepers (...that's really how I build all of my teams). I peaked #1 several times under the alt names of "Salutrian", "lightspeed", and "Zebraiken", though I think the highest rank I got was ~1450. This is perhaps the best team I've ever made for any tier, and I honestly haven't made any changes to it whatsoever for about a month now and it's still very solid. With the end of this pristine metagame coming in a few days, as well as half of the team likely to move onto bigger and better things, I've decided it's time to retire Goodbye and post a RMT. Hopefully you enjoy the team and perhaps give NU a go! :)

    team building 101 (open)
    hi so i don't want to bore you with even more tl;dr (though you're probably bored already anyway) so i'll just show you the team in three or four key phases that it went through!!
    1. [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    This first variation was kinda... really awful. Basically I took Smeargle and threw it together with a bunch of sweepers who had similar counters and would appreciate Spikes support. I'm not sure but I think I might've been trying to bluff a BP Smeargle too... that actually might've been better with this team. SD Scolipede was fairly disappointing, SubCM Mesprit wasn't on the right team (needs special walls to set up on like Slowking/Lanturn), Leafeon was almost entirely useless, and Swellow was decent at best. Camerupt was thrown on mostly because it had cool typing and handled the biggest threats to this team (Weezing, Magneton, Klinklang). The team was mediocre at best, considering most of the wins I got were off of scrubs, and needed several revisions to even start being competitive with the other good players.​
    2. [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Though it looks like it took a significantly defensive turn here, it really wasn't. I scrapped Scolipede in favor of RP Rhydon, which helped me handle Scarf Braviary who raped the last team. Hardly anyone expected Rock Polish or even Speed investment on Rhydon, making for some really useful surprise KOs (I can't tell you how many Specs Exeggutors I caught with Megahorn). Rhydon also had a great base 125 Attack that no one seemed to expect either. I also added Lanturn over Leafeon; it helped patch the major Gorebyss weakness of the last iteration. Lanturn also gave me some cool utility with Volt Switch and Heal Bell. The team began showing some real synergy, though it really wasn't solid enough to net me as many wins as I wanted. This is when I realized that Smeargle was really a great hazards setter too; it had its weaknesses, but my team was starting to cover those well.​
    3.[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    While Rhydon was really cool and all, I found myself consistently getting sweeps stopped by random Eviolite shit like Wartortle and Tangela that could tank a hit or two and KO with their STAB moves. So I dropped Rhydon and looked for the closest thing that could fill its place as both a Flying-type resist and sweeper, as well as being able to beat out those defensive walls. And then I stumbled upon a perfect fit in Substitute Klinklang. Sub saved it from status like Wartortle's Scald and I could Gear Shift in its face while it struggled to break Subs. Klinklang also bailed my ass out of a ton of terribly misplayed games; Gear Shift made it impossible to revenge with a Scarfer, and Klinklang is bulky enough to take a few hits. More often than not, Klinklang ended most games. It was beautiful.​
    4.[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I started getting on IRC a bit more and I talked to tennisace on #genvnu (now #neverused), who told me about a physically defensive Camerupt set over the SpD set I had been using, and a more offensive Lanturn build. I used both and they were, frankly, pretty amazing. Goodbye was finally becoming a top-caliber team, but there was still a missing link. Despite the fact that Smeargle set hazards almost effortlessly, it was just as effortless to spin them away when Smeargle was gone. I looked over my team for the weakest link, and despite the fact that Mesprit was amazing, it contributed the least to team synergy and I could definitely fit a Ghost-type in there. I tested stuff like Haunter, but none were really effective until I used Eviolite Misdreavus as a spinblocker. Good god, that thing doesn't die. It also performed Mesprit's role as a fullstop to Sawk and other Fighting-types almost better than Mesprit did. Goodbye was finally complete, and I haven't touched it since. I haven't really needed to.​


    In-Depth

    [​IMG]

    Smeargle (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Own Tempo
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Spore
    - Spikes
    - Magic Coat
    - Whirlwind

    Smeargle is the shit and there's no better hazard user in the tier. You can try to convince me but I'll prove you wrong. I've had a lot of trouble figuring out the best set for Smeargle but I think that this one is by far the best, as it handles what people think deal with Smeargle (Substitute set-uppers, Taunters) really well. Spore is an almost guaranteed removal of a Pokemon on the opposing team, though I must admit it's a lot less useful now that people are starting to pack more and more Spore-resistant Pokemon like Vital Spirit Magmortar. Most matches, Smeargle can put something to sleep and set up a layer of Spikes, if not more. Magic Coat is really cute when facing an opposing Smeargle or something that obviously Taunts like Electrode or Persian (though Persian will break your sash with Fake Out so go to Klinklang first). Whirlwind, imo, is the magic that makes this set golden. I don't know how many people have set up SubCM Mesprit on me while I just go lalalala and stack my hazards, then Whirlwind their sub and all their boosts away. Plus, the incoming Pokemon is forced to take Spikes damage and if you haven't used up your Spore yet, feel free to do that and rack up even more hazard damage with Whirlwind spam and a likely unbroken Focus Sash. Whirlwind patches one of old-age Smeargle's weaknesses (being weak to set-uppers) and actually gives it a method to abuse its own hazards which is amazing.

    I don't run Stealth Rock because Camerupt makes an arguably better user and I don't want to stack all of my hazards on Smeargle alone. I mean, what happens if you somehow fuck up with Smeargle and lose it due to a misclick or someone's CB Dual Chop Fraxure (yeah, that happened once)? Rapid Spin is probably the only other move I'd even consider being on this set, and I wouldn't ever use it because Smeargle is obnoxiously frail and I usually start every match with it dying in the first couple of turns after setting hazards. People have started to figure out more ways to deal with Smeargle though so it isn't really as good as it used to be; if you're gonna use it, watch out for Pokemon like Magmortar. More often than not, when someone spies a Smeargle on your team, they'll lead with Magmortar/Banette/Electabuzz or whatever has a Sleep-immune ability or whatever can take a Spore. You can use that to your advantage in almost every battle - so try leading with something else that handles those Pokemon really well, like Camerupt or Lanturn for example.​


    [​IMG]

    Klinklang @ Leftovers
    Trait: Plus
    EVs: 252 HP / 184 Atk / 40 SDef / 32 Spe
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Shift Gear
    - Gear Grind
    - Frustration

    Klinklang is definitely one of my favorite Pokemon to use in NU. It's really only challenged by Gorebyss as the best set-upper imo, and even then Klinklang has the bonuses of superb typing, more bulk, and the fact that it doesn't have to lower defenses to boost and isn't priority weak. My EVs are really really weird, but that's okay because there's a reason for that. 32 Speed allows Klinklang to just barely outrun base 86 Scarfers (aka Rotom-S/F), which are more or less the fastest ones you'll ever see in NU. Jynx is the only common Scarf user outside of that range, although Jynx flat-out loses to Klinklang anyway. 252 HP / 40 SDef allow my Sub to never ever be broken by either Wartortle's or Alomomola's Scald; this is particularly useful because often they are the opponent's only answer to Klinklang. I also had one particularly bad match where Wartortle broke every one of Klinklang's subs when there was only a small chance to do so and I only needed one boost to win the game. The rest of the EVs are dropped into Attack. I'm not really sure if that's the most 'efficient' spread or not, but it's the one I've used for the longest time. Plus, I don't think I've ever missed the slight drop in attacking power at all.

    Klinklang is particularly excellent for this team because it shares several common counters with Swellow that can be broken through with Spikes damage. Magneton is an example of one of these shared counters. Klinklang will ALWAYS lure in the opposing team's Magneton, when it's easy enough to just double switch to either Camerupt or Lanturn afterwards and force it to leave again after taking hazards damage. Even in matches where Klinklang doesn't get the opportunity to set up and sweep, it still pulls its weight by luring and wearing down Swellow counters. Also, Frustration > Return because I always forget to put in the happiness value. :(​


    [​IMG]

    Misdreavus (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 Spe
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Shadow Ball
    - Pain Split
    - Toxic / Will-o-Wisp
    - Heal Bell

    Even with all the hype that Ice-eyes has been giving ol' SubCM Mesprit lately, I really, really don't miss Mesprit at all. Misdreavus is just so incredibly bulky it's not even funny. Jolly Choice Banded Sawk's Stone Edge does 37% max. And if it catches you on the switch-in with Toxic? Well, that's what you have Heal Bell for. 28 Speed allows Missy to outrun Adamant Torterra and all of those other things that aim to outrun that (because yes, I am that speed creep guy). The rest is dumped into physical bulk because Missy makes a much better physical wall than a special one, with those immunities and all that. I've debated Will-o-Wisp vs Toxic for quite some time now, and I think I strongly believe that Toxic is the best option for Misdreavus. Without it, Missy gets fucked by so many more things like Magmortar and Cryogonal (yeah, Missy's the best spinblocker in NU, but she also can't do jack to Cryogonal...). Will-o-Wisp could be an option and helps against Armaldo and the like but I prefer the reliability of Toxic more especially since people have been using Cryogonal more and more. Heal Bell is an amazing move and helps Misdreavus do so much more for the team, though it kinda ruins Swellow's Toxic Orb so I have to be careful sometimes. More often than not though it really doesn't matter.

    I wish Misdreavus got Recover. Pain Split is better than Rest, but still so unreliable... Misdreavus is also my main pivot and I use her to switch into almost everything, from Quagsire to Scolipede (though Scolipede usually gets in several layers :/). Taunt is also an option in that last slot, but no one actually uses Foresight Wartortle and I really don't know why. I've actually considered giving Lanturn Heal Bell and dropping it on Misdreavus for something else like maybe Perish Song, but I really think Misdreavus makes the better Heal Bell user and Toxic is too important on Lanturn to give up. The only other change I've really considered here is dropping Misdreavus for Frillish - Frillish has some really cool resistances and Water Absorb which would be awesome for the influx of Rain Dance teams, but Missy is my most sound check to Ground-types which this team struggles with most. I'd rather be able to firmly handle Earthquakes than have a Water immunity.​


    [​IMG]

    Swellow (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SAtk)
    - Facade
    - Brave Bird
    - U-turn
    - Protect

    Anyone who says Braviary is better than Swellow is crazy. Braviary just doesn't have the absolute POWER that comes with Swellow and its Facade. Oh, and Swellow can switch moves, meaning I don't have to let my momentum go to shits when I mispredict and Facade an incoming Rhydon. Swellow is hands-down the best cleaner in NU, and it's absolutely godly with hazards. Quagsire is OHKOd after switching into a full set of layers, and even max HP Klinklang takes a good 40% from Facade. Swellow is the equivalent of a flying semi-truck on steriods. All you even have to do is click U-turn early game and Facade lategame. Brave Bird is really only useful against Ghost-types; otherwise, you're almost always better off spamming Facade. I run Protect over Quick Attack because it gives oodles more utility. When you're trying to stall out a Rain Dance timer or Trick Room or just scouting to see what's going to happen next... I just strongly prefer Protect than some weak-ass priority when you're already fast as shit. It also lets me handle Smeargle better, as without Protect I'd have some ballsy Smeargle user try to Spore me before Toxic Orb gets activated. Swellow is a stud and there's nothing more to say.​


    [​IMG]

    Camerupt (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Solid Rock
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Lava Plume
    - Earth Power
    - Roar
    - Stealth Rock

    Camerupt is the glue that holds this team together. And with no recovery, I have to play it carefully so I don't lose it before I need it most. Almost by virtue of typing alone, Camerupt is the best counter for Klinklang, Weezing, and Magneton, who all have little trouble with the rest of the team. Lava Plume doesn't ever burn for me, but I keep it on there hoping that someday it will actually fulfill its 30% chance of burning. Earth Power provides other STAB and is Camerupt's strongest move; it's actually kinda fun to catch stuff like Lanturn on the switch with Earth Power (I think it does ~40% to most Lanturn). Camerupt is also my Stealth Rock setter. When Snover and hail teams were absurdly popular, I actually almost always led with Camerupt as opposed to Smeargle because I could get up SR, KO Snover, and tank a Blizzard before heavily damaging something else. SubSplit Rotom-F was also almost never a problem because Camerupt could just Roar it out after it Subbed and make it take SR damage coming back in.

    Camerupt was also the team's best option against silly Baton Pass teams, especially midgame. I'd lead with Smeargle and use Spikes while Ninjask/Volbeat obviously Substitute up, and I'd get another layer in while they SD or Encore me. From that point, it was easy enough to either click Whirlwind or switch to Camerupt and Roar. Phazing was really underrated for a long time in NU and I think now people are starting to understand that it's important to run a phazer or else you lose to Ninjask/Volbeat from the get-go. I've often had to play a guessing game with Camerupt when Gorebyss comes in. Either I switch to Lanturn and risk taking a ton of damage from +2 HP Grass, or I go ballsy and stay in with Camerupt to Roar it out and hopefully waste its White Herb and force it to take more hazards damage. It's a gamble, but usually I stick it out with Camerupt and then go to Lanturn on the return of Gorebyss. Specially defensive Camerupt is the only consideration I've really had with him nowadays, and that's mostly because everyone and their mother is running Magmortar.​


    [​IMG]

    Lanturn (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 176 HP / 252 SAtk / 48 SDef / 32 Spe
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Toxic
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt

    I had a little bit of trouble figuring out Lanturn's set for the longest time. I had played with a 252/252+ SpD set, a RestTalk set with Heal Bell (which was actually kinda neat btw), an offensive Specs set with Volt Switch... but I finally settled on this set and I haven't changed it much. I don't remember exactly what my EVs were/are for but I know that 32 Speed is to outspeed non-invested base 70s, and I maxed out Special Attack and threw the rest of it in bulk. The coverage that Lanturn gives is the most important thing it does for me, imo; Thunderbolt wrecks Gorebyss, Surf covers Magmortar and other Fire-, Rock, and Ground-types, and Ice Beam is more or less my only option against Altaria. I've considered using Volt Switch, but I think I eliminated it when I was using a weaker variant as it struggled to harm Wish/Protect Alomomola who could tank a VS and Wish off the damage. It might be more useful now that I have legitimate investment.

    Toxic, to me, is incredibly important on this set. Without it, I really struggle to harm opposing Lanturn in general. It also helps me catch Quagsire, which is another Pokemon I can't deal with very well (fuck Quagsire really). Lanturn is my primary switch for all sorts of Pokemon but mostly bulky Waters; it can take status from them (actually catching a Scald burn is usually for the best) and Toxic them back, while I can get rid of that status with Misdreavus later. Lanturn is also my most reliable check to Magmortar and Gorebyss, and I have to be super careful with Lanturn around any team that utilizes both.​


    Conclusion

    Heh, despite all that tl;dr, I don't have much to say in my conclusion. I don't really expect much in the way of rating either since most people still don't give any attention to NU at all, but whatever. It was intended to be more of a learning experience, I guess? I wanna thank all the friends I've made in my relatively short time at Smogon but in particular user Karpman who inspires me to be greater every time I talk to him. I hope you got something out of reading all this, maybe even an interest in NU which would be fantastic. There's also a really long threatlist that took me ages to do, though I doubt you'll read that anyway. A last look at the team:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    importable though fairly useless (open)
    Klinklang @ Leftovers
    Trait: Plus
    EVs: 252 HP / 188 Atk / 40 SDef / 28 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Shift Gear
    - Gear Grind
    - Frustration

    Smeargle (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Own Tempo
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Spore
    - Spikes
    - Magic Coat
    - Whirlwind

    Misdreavus (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Shadow Ball
    - Pain Split
    - Toxic
    - Heal Bell

    Swellow (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Facade
    - Brave Bird
    - U-turn
    - Protect

    Camerupt (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Solid Rock
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Lava Plume
    - Earth Power
    - Roar
    - Stealth Rock

    Lanturn (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 176 HP / 252 SAtk / 48 SDef / 32 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Toxic
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt


    also ROAR OF THE TIGRES
  2. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken paradise lost
    is a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Super Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,723
    Threat List
    So, because I doubt most of you will read this anyway (because fml really this took like forever and a half), I'm going to skip over most of the bad Pokemon and only mention those that I think can actually be legitimate threats in NU and hopefully cut out some work for myself. I tried to identify common sets and how I deal with them in each section. :I

    key: big threat sometimes threat no threat

    putting this in a spoiler (open)
    [​IMG]Absol: Heh, the first Pokemon on the threat list is one of the biggest. Absol is a huge threat to the team, especially if it can get in a boost. Sucker Punch rapes Swellow, and the rest of the team save Camerupt has a difficult time taking any kind of hit from it if it carries Superpower for Klinklang. This would be one of the only reasons I'd use Quick Attack > Protect on Swellow; it lets me bypass Sucker Punch, and with hazards damage, LO, and Absol's overall frailty it'd be downed much faster. Currently though, it finds very few chances to set up and Camerupt can handle it fairly well. Without Camerupt around though, I'm fucked. .-.
    [​IMG]Alomomola: Alomomola usually runs a Wish/Protect physically defensive set, and Lanturn absolutely wrecks it with Thunderbolt. It's also quickly worn down through hazards damage and heavy pressure from my offensive mons. Alomomola also fails to break Klinklang's Substitutes with Scald so it's more or less set-up bait for Klink, though I'd rather not set up Klinklang on it if I can avoid it.
    [​IMG]Altaria: DD Altaria is a bigger threat than any of its other sets, but it has no chances to set up whatsoever. Ice Beam from Lanturn demolishes even the SpD sets, and Lanturn has Toxic if necessary. Camerupt can Roar out any DD sets, as well as set up SR that keeps Altaria down for the rest of the match. Klinklang takes locked-in Outrages like a champ and sets up on it.
    [​IMG]Amoonguss: Spore is the biggest and only threat Amoonguss poses, so my best methods of handling it are Klinklang subbing up and Swellow. I also tend to catch a lot of Amoonguss users with Smeargle's Spore. Klinklang also sets up on it with ease, as Clear Smog doesn't even affect it and Giga Drain takes like 3-4 hits to break the Substitute. If it caught something with Spore, Camerupt handles it very well.
    [​IMG]Armaldo: Rapid Spin is cockblocked by Misdreavus, and it loses to Smeargle's Spore if it tries to stay out first to spin away those Spikes. I really try not to handle it with anything other than Misdreavus simply because of Rapid Spin, but Camerupt can tank an EQ and Roar out SD variants, Lanturn can KO with Surf, and Swellow still does a ton with Brave Bird. Klinklang really has no issue tanking an EQ to set up and then OHKOing with a +1 Gear Grind.
    [​IMG]Articuno: Keep up Stealth Rock and you're golden. Camerupt can Roar out SubRoost variants though he'll be taking a Toxic in the process. Klinklang is the best option against Articuno though, as it takes pitiful damage from Ice Beam and sets up on non-Whirlwind sets, as well as breaks the sub and KOs with Gear Grind.
    [​IMG]Audino: Audino serves mostly as set-up bait for the entire team. The best it can do is Seismic Toss while Klinklang just Gear Shifts a couple times and then smashes the rest of their team. Audino can't take repeated hits from Swellow. Smeargle simply sets up the entirety of its Spikes layers and if lucky/timed well, can poison Audino with its own Toxic through Magic Coat. Smeargle can also use Audino as Whirlwind bait.
    [​IMG]Banette: Banette is really only threatening because of Insomnia, and even then it's not really. It can switch in on Smeargle and set up Trick Room while I get in a couple layers and then stall out TR with Protect on Swellow and some switching around. A physical set is utterly walled by Camerupt and even Swellow since it doesn't get any coverage moves, lol.
    [​IMG]Basculin: Basculin is sort of obnoxious, as are all physical Water-types. Camerupt obviously can't handle it, and I generally have to rely on Lanturn to deal with it though CB Adaptability Waterfall hurts a lot. Aqua Jet also prevents me from trying to go at it with Swellow. Klinklang can tank a hit if necessary, but that stupid Flinch chance of Waterfall is annoying as hell. Camerupt obviously does jack shit to it. WoW Missy can take a Waterfall and burn it, but that's a huge hit it's taking. Basculin can clean out a weakened team though, which is upsetting.
    [​IMG]Bastiodon: The biggest threat Bastiodon poses is setting up Stealth Rock. Camerupt crushes it with Earth Power and Lanturn does the same with Surf, though it's gotta watch out for Earthquake because some people use that. Smeargle can Spore lead Bastiodon or just Magic Coat the obvious SR.
    [​IMG]Beartic: I've seen this maybe twice in my entire time playing NU, and it was a SubPunch set both times though I think it's cool so it's staying on this list. Camerupt handles that well, either Roaring it out or breaking the sub with Lava Plume. SR also prevents it from doing much of anything. Lanturn can also break its subs and take Icicle Crashes. Klinklang just sets up on it and breaks the sub/Focus Punch with Gear Grind.
    [​IMG]Beheeyem: I had to look up how to spell that like three times. Beheeyum is cool and definitely deserves more usage. It's not too much of a threat, though; Smeargle outpaces most sets and sleeps them, Klinklang sets up on a lot of variants, Swellow OHKOs, Lanturn tanks any hits and Toxics it, Missy just spams Shadow Ball, and Camerupt Roars out CM sets.
    [​IMG]WARGLE: Yeah, fuck you, I don't like the name Braviary. WARGLE is so much cooler. Wargle is handled through Klinklang mostly, though I want to be careful if they have Magneton because getting Klink trapped is bad if Maggy hasn't been sufficiently worn down. Missy can tank Brave Birds if necessary, and so can Lanturn though I'd rather avoid that scenario. Best way to handle it is to get Stealth Rocks up fast with Camerupt and just dodge around all the Brave Birds and U-turns.
    [​IMG]Butterfree: Butterfree is the only legit Quiver Dance user in NU. Swellow outspeeds pre-QD and OHKOs with Facade, and Smeargle also outspeeds and Spores it before it can do anything else. Both Camerupt and Lanturn can handle it well, too; Camerupt can set SR and Roar it before it gets out of hand, and Lanturn's got Thunderbolt and Toxic.
    [​IMG]Cacturne: Cacturne has been getting more popular since people have realized that it's a really good counter to Slowking and Lanturn with Water Absorb. It really depends on the variant of Cacturne and how I deal with it. Most of the Spikes-stacking ones are easy enough; they'll get in a layer but then get 2hkod by either Ice Beam, Lava Plume, or they'll get set up on by Klinklang if they have Seed Bomb. The Encore + SD ones are the most difficult to handle, I think, because they're significantly less common than Spikes variants. I got caught on Camerupt's Earth Power once and it proceeded to SD up and Sucker Punch/Drain Punch me into oblivion. It's a less significant threat because it's not really that common, but it's a threat regardless.
    [​IMG]Camerupt: Camerupt usually runs a defensive set with Lava Plume, Earth Power, and SR that has partly been popularized by this team (and tennisace's). Lanturn's Surf is the most reliable way to handle it as that OHKOs even SpD sets, but care must be taken to avoid Earth Power/Toxic. Swellow can 2HKO with Facade but will take a Lava Plume to the face in the process which sucks. Misdreavus can deal with Camerupt well too, as it can Toxic and then wear it down with Shadow Ball.
    [​IMG]Carracosta: Hey, another physical Water-type that the team has troubles with. I really don't know why Shell Smash Carracosta isn't more used because it hits like a truck. This is really the most dangerous Water-type to my team, because it carries a Rock-type STAB that smashes through Lanturn. My best bet to handle it is to catch it with Smeargle's Spore/Whirlwind it away since people try to set it up on Smeargle for some reason. I'll usually risk Camerupt to Roar it away if it tries to set up on that, too; losing Camerupt isn't as bad as losing the rest of my team. Klinklang can take a Waterfall and try to do some damage but with Carracosta's immense Defense it's not doing anything really. Lanturn baaarely lives a Stone Edge I think, so if I'm feeling lucky that's always a last option but otherwise I get reamed by Carracosta. :/
    [​IMG]Cinccino: Cinccino is also a really underrated threat in NU. You'd look at it and be like "oh this is another one of those Normal-type rodent stereotypes" but then you realize it gets Rock Blast, Bullet Seed, Wake-Up Slap, U-turn and Technician off of a solid base 95 Attack and runs off of 115 Speed, making it one of the fastest threats. Cinccino is particularly annoying as it wrecks Smeargle, KOing through the Focus Sash thanks to its multi-hit moves. For this reason whenever I see a team with Cinccino I prefer to lead with Swellow, as it outspeeds and OHKOs with Facade. Klinklang also isn't 2HKOd by Wake-Up Slap, so that works as a solid check. Camerupt deals with it really well as long as it's not carrying Aqua Tail, resisting Rock Blast, Bullet Seed, and U-turn.
    [​IMG]Cryogonal: This thing is the best spinner in NU by far imo, and as such it's the hardest one for this team to deal with. Toxic is on Misdreavus almost purely for Cryogonal, as otherwise it outstalls Misdreavus' pitiful Shadow Balls and burn damage with Recover. It's a losing war without Toxic. Misdreavus should be the primary way to deal with it because of the threat of Rapid Spin, but Swellow outspeeds and OHKOs with Facade, and Klinklang sets up on it easy.
    [​IMG]Dragonair: Dragonair has a couple cool DD sets, but it's easy to deal with because it's really weak before boosts. Camerupt isn't the best option here because Dragonair commonly carries Waterfall and thus gets wrecked. Lanturn can hang around and Ice Beam it to death. Swellow OHKOs if it can get in before a boost. Klinklang is the best way to deal with it, as it can just set up in its face and outdamage it with Gear Grind.
    [​IMG]Drifblim: The most common sets I see off of Drifblim are the CM + Unburden ones, and they can get out of hand quickly if the setup actually works. However, it's really hard for Drifblim to actually find any setup time against this team. Klinklang just outboosts it, Swellow shoots it down with Brave Bird, Camerupt Roars away the boosts (and hopefully the Unburden boost too), and Lanturn just fires Thunderbolts at it until it dies. Flare Boost sets just die really fast.
    [​IMG]Druddigon: Usually the best way to handle this is to get it to Outrage and then use Klinklang to boost up a few times. The defensive Glare sets get boned by Klinklang's Sub (and they can't Dragon Tail away the boosts either). Swellow can revenge if its locked into Outrage but otherwise should beware Sucker Punch. Camerupt can tank most hits and Roar it out if necessary, but I'd rather rely on Klinklang to deal with it if I can because CB Outrage does hurt a lot.
    [​IMG]Dugtrio: Dugtrio is really easy to handle tbh, as long as you don't let it catch Lanturn. Camerupt can actually tank an Earthquake and KO with Earth Power which is really amusing when people try to trap it and fail. Swellow outspeeds and OHKOs with Facade, though always gotta be aware of Sucker Punch. Misdreavus is by far the best answer to it, as Dugtrio struggles to do anything at all (Focus Sash'd Stone Edge does ~17% and LO about 22%...).
    [​IMG]Duosion: I haven't seen as much of Duosion as I should, I think. Calm Mind sets are handled fairly well by Misdreavus as long as she gets in before too much setup is done. Swellow's U-turn/Facade run it over, and often Camerupt can just Roar it away. Trick Room is a little harder since it has max investment in SpA and outspeeds the entirety of my team, but waiting out the TR turns and some smart switching is generally the best way to handle that.
    [​IMG]Eelektross: Eelektross generally runs a specially offensive set with Thunderbolt/Flamethrower/Grass Knot or some variation. Both Camerupt and Lanturn are probably the best counters in the entirety of NU, resisting every move commonly in its moveset. The forgotten Coil set is a little bit harder to manage, as it can just Dragon Tail away Camerupt before I get a chance to Roar. I could fix that by running some Speed EVs on Camerupt but CoilTross isn't popular anyway.
    [​IMG]Emboar: Emboar's two STAB moves make it somewhat hard for my team to handle. Depending on which move it uses, it has the potential to KO something. Camerupt is the most reliable switch-in, as Emboar will most likely be using Flare Blitz and it can take a Superpower. Lanturn also works but I can't switch it into Superpower. Misdreavus can also take either move but struggles to do any real damage once it's in (especially if I'm running Will-o-Wisp). Klinklang, if boosted, can Sub down while Emboar wears itself down with Flare Blitz or lowers its defenses with Superpower, then KO with Frustration. Swellow OHKOs but can't switch in. My troubles mostly come from its unpredictability with its STAB moves, and sometimes I get unlucky and mispredict. Otherwise it's easily revenged and often handled by a remaining Pokemon on my team.
    [​IMG]Exeggutor: Fuck this thing. Nothing on my team can reliably switch in on it save Klinklang (...who's 2hkod by Specs Leaf Storm and some people run HP Ground for Steel-types). Misdreavus can also take a Leaf Storm and Pain Split back some health and/or Shadow Ball it but I usually don't want to risk that. I try to catch Eggy on double-switches with Swellow mostly, threatening U-turn. Outside of that, I have to hope hazards wears it down really fast. Trick Room Exeggutor is even worse, considering it can switch moves and outspeeds Swellow after TR. Eggy is one of the few reasons I appreciated hail; blizzspam wrecks Exeggutor so it was way less common when hail was around.
    [​IMG]Flareon: Flareon runs a good SpD set, and that's about it. Any physical variants are lolworthy. Lanturn and Camerupt both handle it pretty well, and keeping SR up makes it even easier. Swellow OHKOs even without SR iirc, and Misdreavus can Toxic it/Heal Bell off it's Toxics.
    [​IMG]Floatzel: Another physical Water-type that can wreck my team if played right. Floatzel is less worrisome than the others though, as it has no reasonable way to boost its attack (Bulk Up...?). Lanturn is generally the best way to handle it as it can't hit Lanturn even with its coverage moves. Klinklang can also handle it decently if it doesn't have Brick Break. Swellow outspeeds and OHKOs but there are those people that run Aqua Jet and Waterfall on the same set. :|
    [​IMG]Fraxure: Fraxure is uncommon, but that's good for me. It has just Outrage and uh I think Dig for coverage, which is good because Klinklang walls it to hell and back that way. I'm fairly sure even CB Outrages don't break its Subs so that's nice. Camerupt can tank an Outrage if need be, though it really does jack all in return (Roar just stops it from being locked in sooo). Misdreavus can also absorb one and burn/Toxic it. Swellow outspeeds and OHKOs an unboosted one.
    [​IMG]Garbodor: I've seen a few Spikes/Toxic Spikes sets from this thing and it's not too bad. While it can't prevent setup, Camerupt can take whatever Garbodor can use and can Earth Power it to death. Misdreavus does the same, though Shadow Ball is still pretty weak. Klinklang is my best answer, as nothing Garbodor does bothers it and it just sets up in Garbodor's face.
    [​IMG]Gardevoir: Gardevoir has been less common lately since Mesprit has been popularized (Gardevoir was actually one of the most popular Pokemon in the beginning phases of NU), but it still poses no real threat. Lanturn, Camerupt, and Misdreavus can all take whatever Gardevoir can dish out and retaliate respectively. Gardevoir's Trace is really only annoying when it comes in on Lanturn's Thunderbolt. Swellow outspeeds and OHKOs. Klinklang can set up, as long as it doesn't carry Focus Blast.
    [​IMG]Gigalith: I feel like Gigalith is generally inferior to the other Rock-, Ground-, and Steel-types in the tier but it's still moderately used so I might as well include it. It's usually found as a lead, so Smeargle can Spore it and set up a layer of Spikes. If it stays in, though, I usually prefer to save Smeargle's sash since Gigalith commonly runs Rock Blast. Camerupt thrashes it, tanking its Earthquakes and doing heavy damage with Earth Power. Lanturn can also function as a check if necessary with Surf, though I'd rather not risk it taking too much damage early on in the match. Klinklang destroys it with Gear Grind as well, but I'm not going to set up on it because of Earthquake.
    [​IMG]Glaceon: Glaceon had a huge nerf with the banning of Snover, which is wonderful for me. Specs is its most common set, and Klinklang can tank Ice Beams and set up on it (though it has to be wary for whatever Hidden Power Glaceon carries). Lanturn is the best check in the tier imo, though it'll have to take a couple Ice Beams as Thunderbolt doesn't OHKO. Swellow cleanly OHKOs though you have to be careful that it's not a Scarf variant, which is pretty obvious because Glaceon then is pitifully weak.
    [​IMG]Golem: Golem is also uncommon and functions primarily as a lead with SR/EQ/Stone Edge/Sucker Punch. Smeargle outspeeds and can either Magic Coat SR or Spore it and set up Spikes. Lanturn OHKOs barring Sturdy, and Camerupt 2HKOs with Earth Power. Misdreavus is also not bothered by anything it does at all and can burn it or Toxic it.
    [​IMG]Gorebyss: Gorebyss is a dick, but significantly less so as long as Lanturn is still alive and in high health. Lanturn will always live a +2 HP Grass and OHKO with Thunderbolt if Gorebyss is ballsy enough to stay in. Outside of Lanturn, though, I have to take some risks when dealing with it. Occasionally someone is silly enough to set up Gorebyss on Smeargle; I can Whirlwind/Spore it there (preferably Spore to keep it out of the rest of the match). I'll occasionally risk Camerupt to a Surf so I can Roar it out, too. Gorebyss also takes a ton trying to come in on Camerupt's Earth Power thanks to its shitty SpD; it's often burned out quickly.
    [​IMG]Haunter: Haunter is frail as hell. Most often I'll find that they try to Sub up on Smeargle on the first turn of the game; I usually just Whirlwind that first turn and they lose 25% and don't try that again. Haunter is relatively useless against my team anyway because Camerupt and Lanturn tank whatever it does, Swellow outspeeds and can switch in on anything but Sludge Bomb, and Klinklang resists everything but HP Ground and shreds it with Gear Grind.
    [​IMG]Huntail: Huntail falls into the exact same pattern as Gorebyss, though it's slightly more annoying because it attacks Lanturn's lower Defense. Lanturn can live a +2 Waterfall/Crunch and KO with Thunderbolt back. It's of utmost importance to keep Lanturn alive when facing either Huntail or Gorebyss (...or both). Otherwise, I'll have to take some risks with the rest of my team. :s
    [​IMG]Jynx: Jynx is really only a bother if it runs Nasty Plot/Psychic/Ice Beam/Focus Blast. Without Focus Blast, Klinklang runs all over Jynx, and without Nasty Plot, Lanturn walls it forever. Misdreavus actually does a ton to it with Shadow Ball, too. If worst comes to worst and Jynx KOs something, Swellow can always revenge (unless its that stupid Scarf set, in which case it's just walled by Camerupt/Lanturn/Klinklang). Jynx can also sleep stuff with Lovely Kiss, but that just eliminates a coverage move or Nasty Plot, meaning I can still deal with it well after the sleep and Heal Bell it off later.
    [​IMG]Kadabra: I don't see Kadabra very often, but when I do, it's usually some kind of Substitute set or a Focus Sash set. Klinklang walls most because Kadabra doesn't have much to hit it (yeah no Focus Blast sucks), and can break through Focus Sash Kadabra thanks to Gear Grind too. Swellow can always revenge though I prefer to use U-turn just in case it is a Sash variant. Lanturn can otherwise handle its assaults and finish it off.
    [​IMG]Klinklang: Klinklang generally runs a set exactly like mine above, though sometimes with LO or Volt Switch/Hidden Power over Substitute. I mean, it's not like it's actually got options....... Anyway, Klinklang is dominated by Camerupt. If it uses Substitute as Camerupt comes in, I Roar it out because it's likely to boost next, whereas if it boosts first I'll just attack it with Earth Power. Lanturn can function as a decent check if Camerupt is down, though it's not going to take +1 Returns very well. Basically Camerupt is my best way to deal with it, and I absolutely cannot lose Camerupt until Klinklang is down for the count.
    [​IMG]Lanturn: Lanturn is obnoxious, mostly because of its coverage and the fact that it's hard for my team to actually kill it. My own Lanturn walls opposing ones, but usually Toxicing them is pointless since most carry Heal Bell or have RestTalk (or in some cases both :I). Swellow can -almost- KO with Facade after a few layers but it sucks to have to give up Swellow just to kill a Lanturn. Camerupt attracts Lanturns like bees to honey and can often nail them with Earth Power which is cool and helps out a lot as far as dealing with Lanturn. Misdreavus can come in, but Heal Bell/Rest make Toxic useless usually. Smeargle is also rendered incapable of harming it because of Sleep Talk. Really, Lanturn is only an issue because I can't kill it easily rather than being an offensive threat. Klinklang can try to set up on it but Thunderbolt is kinda common and breaks its subs.
    [​IMG]Leafeon: Leafeon usually runs an SD set with Leaf Blade/Return and either Wish, Heal Bell, or Baton Pass. The only issue I'd have with it at all would be it passing SD boosts around; Klinklang resists everything it can do and boosts in its face. Camerupt also has a pretty easy time dealing with it, 2HKOing with Lava Plume. Missy can WoW it. Swellow outspeeds and KOs, even with that monster Defense.
    [​IMG]Lickilicky: Lickilicky is generally used for its monster HP stat and functions as a decent special sponge with Wish/Protect and a combination of Toxic, Dragon Tail, Heal Bell, or Seismic Toss. Lickilicky isn't really that difficult to handle, but rather just hard to kill off the bat. Swellow can do a ton of damage with Facade, but Wish+Protect greatly reduces Swellow's lifespan from Toxic damage so I usually try to avoid that. Misdreavus can handle all but Heal Bell Lickilicky with Toxic and its own Heal Bell. Klinklang can easily set up on all non-Seismic Toss variants (and even then can sometimes set up).
    [​IMG]Linoone: Handling Linoone is usually a matter of preventing it from getting its Belly Drum off. As long as I maintain some kind of hazards up, Linoone is really easy to deal with. It can't Belly Drum off of anything, because literally every move on my team KOs it after it takes SR damage + Belly Drum. If for some reason it gets that BD off, Klinklang walls anything it could ever try to do, though Extremespeed still hurts a lot.
    [​IMG]Machoke: I don't see a lot of Machoke, but I think it's the best Eviolite-using Fighting-type in the tier. Missy walls everything that Machoke could ever try to do - I think Payback did like 20% the one time someone used it against me - but it's a stalemate if they run RestTalk. Camerupt can tank a DynamicPunch if needed, and Swellow easily OHKOs with Brave Bird after hazards.
    [​IMG]Magmortar: What team isn't bothered by Magmortar? :/ I suffer particularly because Magmortar is often paired with Gorebyss or something I heavily rely on Lanturn for. Lanturn walls and KOs Magmortar, but will often take a LO HP Grass in the process. Camerupt is somewhat reliable, but I don't like to risk getting 2HKOd by a Modest Specs Fire Blast because that has happened before. :I Swellow can always revenge it, but I don't like having to sac a Pokemon to get Swellow in. Also, Magmortar is also terrible because it's one of the few Pokemon that guarantee only one layer out of Smeargle thanks to Vital Spirit. Whenever there's an opposing Magmortar, it's almost always wise to lead with Camerupt to get SR up and force out Maggy since it'll most likely be leading.
    [​IMG]Magneton: Magneton usually runs either a Choice Scarf set or a bulky Sub + Eviolite set, sometimes with Charge Beam. This team has Magneton's two best counters imo in Lanturn and Camerupt, so I hardly ever have trouble with it. The only thing to be careful about with Magneton is to keep Klinklang out of the fray until its sufficiently weakened by hazards and such. Wargle's and Swellow's U-turns will almost always seem like an obvious time for Klinklang to come in, and that's when it'll get trapped the most. Camerupt is my preferred mon to deal with it, as it can use the free turn to set up SR.
    [​IMG]Marowak: Marowak is surprisingly strong and kinda bulky-ish. Swellow's Facade doesn't KO at full health, but that doesn't matter much when I've got Misdreavus to fall back on; it's immune to both Earthquake and Double-Edge, meaning Marowak has to rely on Fire Punch or whatever it's running. WoW is generally greatly preferred when fighting Marowak but Toxic is okay too. Nothing else on my team can really take an EQ though, so I have to weaken it appropriately before KOing with Lanturn or Swellow. It's still uncommon and I don't think I've lost a Pokemon to it yet, so not much of a threat.
    [​IMG]Mesprit: Mesprit runs a couple of different sets; it has a support set, TrickScarf, and CM sets. TrickScarf usually leads and then Tricks Smeargle turn 1, which is just fine by me to have a scarfed Spore available. The support sets usually are slower and also lead, so I can either Spore it or Magic Coat SR/Toxic/Thunder Wave back at it. SubCM, though, is the most difficult set to deal with. If they Substitute up on Smeargle expecting to outspeed and start CMing up, I have to Whirlwind right away or risk getting swept. Misdreavus can handle SubCM Mesprit well before it gets too many CMs, but without Mesprit I have to rely on U-turn from Swellow to break the Sub and then sac something so that I can kill it off. It sets up on Lanturn and can KO Camerupt after a little bit of prior damage, so I'd rather not have to Roar it out with it unless necessary.
    [​IMG]Miltank: Miltank runs a support set that can actually be really annoying if it runs all the right moves, mainly Seismic Toss, Heal Bell, and Milk Drink. Seismic Toss makes it so Klinklang can't set up on it, Heal Bell prevents it from being beaten through Toxic, and Milk Drink is for recovery duh. Thankfully, people seem to think that Body Slam > Seismic Toss for some reason which makes it simply Klinklang bait. With that set though, I have to wear it down with Camerupt's Roar + hazards until it's in Swellow's Facade KO range (which is ~50% I think).
    [​IMG]Misdreavus: Misdreavus is unkillable I swear. >:o However, almost all non-Taunt sets are set-up bait for Klinklang as long as he avoids getting burned coming in. Lanturn and my Misdreavus can also Toxic it as well as Shadow Ball it in Missy's case. Swellow is immune to its entire moveset basically and can KO with a few Brave Birds if necessary, though that's almost a suicide move on Swellow's part.
    [​IMG]Murkrow: Whenever the opponent has Murkrow, they usually lead with it because they think they can get the edge on Smeargle with Taunt. HOWEVER I have Magic Coat, meaning Murkrow becomes instantly useless turn 1. From that point on, it's simply a matter of getting up SR and nabbing it with a Toxic. It's annoying but does die eventually, usually to Lanturn's Thunderbolt. Any Toxics it sends about can be removed through Missy's Heal Bell later on too.
    [​IMG]Ninjask: I like teams that lead with Ninjask. I get up three layers of Spikes usually while it goes all Substitute/Protect/SD and then I just Whirlwind it all away. Even mid-game, Ninjask poses no threat because I can just Roar whatever boosts its trying to pass with Camerupt. SR also severely cuts into Ninjask's lifespan. If, for some reason, Ninjask makes it past the point that both Smeargle and Camerupt are gone, Klinklang can always just set up on it and wreck whatever comes in (or better yet, break Ninjask's sub and kill it before it gets a pass off).
    [​IMG]Persian: Persian exists almost solely as a Fake Out/Taunt lead. I usually switch to Klinklang on the Fake Out, but then it will probably Taunt (or in the worst case, Hypnosis) so usually my best bet from there is to Gear Grind it. Once it Taunts it will almost guaranteed U-turn to something else, meaning I can either stay in or switch to Camerupt/Missy depending on what's incoming.
    [​IMG]Pinsir: Pinsir's a stud; best set is SD/X-Scissor/Earthquake/Stone Edge, imo. However, it can't do anything to Misdreavus at all. Mold Breaker EQ is basically the best its got, and even then it's not doing much while Missy just burns it and kills it off with Shadow Ball. Swellow can also come in and revenge it with Facade/Brave Bird.
    [​IMG]Probopass: Whenever I see these, I'm always worried like hell that they'll have Magic Coat, because they're always in that lead position and sent out vs Smeargle. >.> My usual solution turn 1 is to Magic Coat it, actually, because that way if it sets up SR I get it, if it T-waves, it gets it, and if it Magic Coats then nothing happens at all. The only scenario in which I lose is if it Power Gems me which is usually pretty unlikely. Then I'll just Spore and set up some Spikes if I'm feeling like it has no Magic Coat. Outside of that, Camerupt handles it nicely with Earth Power, and Lanturn can KO with Surf if needed.
    [​IMG]Quagsire: I hate Quagsire with a burning, fiery passion. Why can't people in OU just use it that much more so we're rid of it? ;___; Quagsire walls Klinklang to hell and back because unboosted Frustration does like two damage and yeah. I can't switch in anything because of the threat of Scald/Earthquake, so my best bet is usually to try and catch it with a Toxic on Lanturn then switch around for a little bit to stall some damage and KO with Swellow. Lanturn's Surf can do some damage too, but Swellow is generally the most reliable way to kill it. Really, all I can do is hope the Quagsire player is stupid and eats a Toxic and wears themselves out with hazards up. :/
    [​IMG]Raichu: Raichu generally runs an NP set with Encore/Thunderbolt/coverage move (usually Grass Knot or Focus Blast). It's really only an issue if it can get in on Lanturn's Thunderbolt; Raichu's Lightningrod gives it a +1 SpA boost, and if I stay in with Lanturn to Surf it or something it can just Encore and get another boost from Thunderbolt. Otherwise, both Camerupt and Lanturn make astounding checks with both being immune to Thunderbolt and neutral to coverage moves (GK hits Lanturn for 20 BP..) and can both 2hko. If need be, Swellow can revenge.
    [​IMG]Regice: I've been seeing Regice get more usage lately (and I expect it to rise in usage because of Gorebyss, tbh), but it poses little threat to my team. Charge Beam sets are walled by Lanturn who can Toxic it, and Klinklang can get in on an Ice Beam and just use it to set up because I'm pretty sure Gear Grind OHKOs at +1. Camerupt isn't killing it with Lava Plume, but can set up SR and Roar it out so it takes hazards damage.
    [​IMG]Regirock: I don't see Regirock at all, though I really dunno why. Lanturn absorbs Thunder Wave from most sets, and can Toxic/Surf it down though being EQ weak is annoying. Camerupt can do the same but wear it down with Earth Power/Roaring it with hazards. Missy is immune to Earthquake and takes neutral damage from Stone Edge, meaning that it can burn/Toxic and Heal Bell whatever status move Regirock uses.
    [​IMG]Rhydon: Rhydon is pretty likely to move up to RU, but my team handles it fairly well. The best switch-in is Misdreavus as it can tank anything Rhydon does, and from then I can Toxic it or Will-o-Wisp it so it becomes useless. Lanturn also has Surf but I'm not risking it coming in on an Earthquake. It can always revenge, though.
    [​IMG]Roselia: Roselia is frequently seen as a support mon, running either Spikes/Toxic Spikes and some combination of Giga Drain, Sludge Bomb, Aromatherapy, Leech Seed, Rest, or the other hazard. Every Pokemon on my team has a move to hit it super-effectively save Misdreavus, Klinklang, and Smeargle; however it's complete set-up bait for Klinklang if it can avoid Leech Seed coming in and Roselia doesn't have HP Fire. Smeargle also wins generally, with Magic Coat to reflect hazards and Leech Seed, and can Spore to force it out.
    [​IMG]Rotom-F: Rotom-F also took a huge hit with the banning of hail. It usually ran either a SubSplit set or a choiced set. SubSplit usually tried to set up on Lanturn or Smeargle, who walled it for forever and won because of Whirlwind, respectively. Choiced variants had no hope against Lanturn unless they caught it with Trick. Camerupt can also be a makeshift check but doesn't appreciate Blizzards. Not much of a threat since hail's gone, though.
    [​IMG]Rotom-S: I dunno why it's called Rotom-S. Rotom-Spin, maybe? It has one of the most varied movepools, meaning I don't ever really know what to expect from it. Lanturn is able to handle most sets very well though, as they almost all carry Air Slash + Electric-type move. The worst it can get in return is Confuse Ray/Will-o-Wisp. Camerupt can take a few Air Slashes and set up SR, which is probably the best way to keep it in check. Swellow can KO all of the non-physically bulky sets with Facade.
    [​IMG]Samurott: Special variations of Samurott are really easy to handle, but the SD variants are awful. Special sets usually run Surf/Ice Beam/uhh coverage, meaning that Lanturn walls it and OHKOs with Thunderbolt. SD sets run Waterfall, Megahorn, and usually Aqua Jet, meaning that I have to keep Lanturn in really high health or else risk getting KOd by Megahorn while the rest of my team can't do anything else. Misdreavus can attempt to get in a WoW but will often be sacrificing herself. Swellow can't revenge thanks to Aqua Jet. ;-; Good thing they aren't too popular!
    [​IMG]Sawk: Choice Scarf Sawk is actually one of the dominant threats in NU, coupling incredible power with the ability to revenge a lot of threats. It is, however, 100% walled by Misdreavus. Even a Jolly CB Sawk can only shave off a third of its HP with Stone Edge, and Missy can WoW/Toxic it. If Klinklang has a boost, I generally prefer to keep it in and Substitute as it outspeeds Scarf Sawk and CC lowers Sawk's Defense so I can KO with Frustration.
    [​IMG]Scolipede: I generally skip the Magic Coat antics with lead Scolipede because usually they'll just Megahorn Smeargle into oblivion. If it stays in, it'll either break Smeargle's sash (or miss :P), or they'll get up one layer then get Spored. Mid-game, Scolipede is walled mostly by Misdreavus but without WoW it takes a few Shadow Balls to KO. Camerupt can tank EQs and 2HKO with Lava Plume if necessary. Swellow can always revenge it if something does end up going down.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]Simi____: I kinda throw them all in the same category because they do the exact same thing (Nasty Plot set), just with different typing. Lanturn handles both Simisear and Simipour, and Camerupt handles both Simisear and Simisage. Klinklang can also deal with Simisage fairly well. All can be revenged by Swellow if necessary.
    [​IMG]Slowking: Slowking is pretty nifty as a special wall, with Scald, Slack Off, Toxic, etc along with Regenerator. My best bet usually involves having hazards up to prevent Regen from healing it significantly. Lanturn is also the best switch-in, taking Thunder Waves and Scalds easy and scaring it off with the threat of Toxic/Thunderbolt. Misdreavus also wins a 1-on-1 situation, with Shadow Ball and Toxic. Swellow does a ton with both U-turn and Facade.
    [​IMG]Smeargle: I usually lead with Swellow against opposing Smeargle and Protect first turn. Sometimes people catch on and get up one layer, but one layer or two is always better than losing Swellow to sleep turn 1. From there I can 2hko with any move, though I prefer to just leave Swellow in and Facade it to death. Smeargle rarely makes it past the first few turns of the game.
    [​IMG]Swellow: Swellow is utterly walled by Klinklang though it nearly 3hkos with Facade. As long as the opponent doesn't carry Magneton, I'm pretty comfortable using Klinklang to deal with it. If they do, I'll try to get Camerupt in on obvious U-turns and set up SR as soon as possible, because Swellow is significantly more annoying if Klinklang gets trapped. Misdreavus can also take its hits though all it can do to Swellow in return is force it to take Brave Bird + Toxic damage. Lanturn can live a Facade and Thunderbolt it to death.
    [​IMG]Tangela: Tangela runs a set similar to big brother Tangrowth with Leech Seed and Giga Drain. As long as it doesn't carry HP Fire, Tangela can do nothing to Klinklang as it simply sets up in its face. Camerupt can 2HKO Tangela with Lava Plume even through Leech Seed. Lanturn also 2HKOs with Ice Beam. Swellow does a lot with Brave Bird, but I usually don't want to risk that since it'll worsen Swellow's lifespan significantly.
    [​IMG]Throh: Throh is a bulky booster that I have to catch early and fast with Swellow. Misdreavus walls it, yeah, but Rest variants have no issue with Toxic and they generally have full investment in SpD making Shadow Ball useless. Swellow OHKOs with Brave Bird at +0 and really close at +1 I think, though I usually want to wear it down a bit so I can KO with Facade. Camerupt Roars it out, though technically it can Circle Throw first.
    [​IMG]Torkoal: Torkoal runs a physically defensive set, usually SR/Rapid Spin/Lava Plume. Missy is the obvious switch because losing hazards to Rapid Spin sucks. It can 2-3HKO with Shadow Ball or Toxic it while Torkoal really does nothing but set up SR and do pitiful damage with Lava Plume. If Missy is KOed for some reason, Camerupt outspeeds and KOs with Earth Power (most people don't expect that I guess) and Lanturn also KOs with Surf.
    [​IMG]Ursaring: Ursaring usually tends to come in against Smeargle, sporting either a Quick Feet or Guts set. Whichever it carries, I usually just sac Smeargle to set up Spikes or whatever while it uses Swords Dance and wears itself down. Swellow outspeeds even the Quick Feet variants and easily revenges. Otherwise I do a little bit of mind-gaming between Klinklang and Misdreavus to make that Toxic Orb timer tick down until Ursaring faints.
    [​IMG]Volbeat: Volbeat is in the exact same niche as Ninjask and I generally deal with it in the same way. If it leads, I just use Spikes because it'll Substitute, anticipating the Spore. After that it usually Encores; I'll click Whirlwind just in case but if it Encores I get a free layer of Spikes. Then I can switch to Camerupt on the Tail Glow and Roar the recipient out on Baton Pass, potentially racking up even more hazards damage. Keeping Camerupt alive is the only key to stopping Volbeat; it has no way to prevent Roar over and over.
    [​IMG]Wartortle: Wartortle is only ran because of its decent bulk and Rapid Spin. As such, Misdreavus is always the best switch-in to block spins. She can also Toxic Wartortle and wear it down with Shadow Ball while it does pitiful damage with Scald in return. Lanturn can also OHKO Wartortle with Thunderbolt if necessary. Klinklang can set up on Wartortle's Scalds (though don't catch a burn coming in...).
    [​IMG]Weezing: Weezing uses a physically defensive set with WoW, Sludge Bomb, Pain Split, and Flamethrower/Thunderbolt. Camerupt is the best possible counter to it, resisting its STAB and coverage moves as well as being immune to WoW and hitting its lower SpD. Lanturn can also come in and KO with Thunderbolt, though it is susceptible to WoW. Wearing down Weezing is really important for both Klinklang and Swellow to sweep, so it's pretty important to keep Camerupt around for at least as long as Weezing is.


    ...so that took an eternity, even while skipping over unimportant Pokemon. If I missed something or you want me to tell you how I deal with a certain threat, go ahead and fire away! And thanks for looking at my team. ^__^
  3. ChaoticaMortis

    ChaoticaMortis

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    This is, hands-down, the best (and longest) NU RMT I've read so far, and yes, I read the whole thing (damn good read at that).

    This is one of those RMT's that doesn't really need to be rated or helped because you know your team and its counters so well that there's no extra input that we can really give on it. Then again, since this team only has a few days of life left in NU anyways, it should be like that.

    There's not anything useful I can really say, but I wanted to compliment the team and give you props for it. Shit should be archived.

    Sorry if this was a useless post, but really, I liked this team too much NOT to post on it.
  4. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown An obsession with the past is like a dead fly
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    Really nice team, maybe dugtrio+klinklang can give you trouble but almost nobody is using that ^^

    Also, i find funny the fact that i have been using a similar core around klinklang, and the spread of klink, which is again the same as mine (i wanted to beat alomomola at all costs though)

    So yeah, i don't have anything to suggest, and the tier is shifting in not much time, so this team won't probably be used anymore.
    GL!
  5. Sour

    Sour

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    Loved reading this RMT, I hope it becomes a reference point for people trying to get into NU.
    I didn't even touch NU with a stick in Gen4 but Gen5 NU has been so much fun and so suprisingly competitive, it's unbelievable!

    Any rate may/will prove void due to the Jan Stats coming out soon.
    Once again excellent RMT, very easy to read and lots of info.
  6. shnen

    shnen שוני
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    Wooh finally a good nu rmt. Nice team Zeb, definetley wasnt tl:dr for me, grats on #1! This really does chronicle the metagame, goodbye as well :'( !
    Edit: actually superpascal's is good but eh :p
    Edit 2: Did you write that threatlist? We need an NU threatlist T.T
  7. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere Congregation of the Classiest
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    This really is a fantastic team Zeb. Camerupt is a monster, and Smeargle definitely is the best Spikes user in the tier. My one suggestion is to swap Substitute for Volt Switch on Klinklang. This will give you a bit more leeway with Klinklang and allows you to apply more hazard pressure on your opponent (since they'll be switching into Magneton if they have it, but you can safely Volt Switch out and go into Camerupt to start Roaring around.

    As for the Absol problem, there really isn't that much you can do without removing some of the synergy of your team. It seems like you can play around CB fairly easily since you can scout it, but SD seems like a huge problem. I'll think about a way to fix this.

    Personally, I think your team synergy would be better if you swapped Smeargle for Water Absorb Cacturne. This will still allow you to get spikes up while giving you a decent check to Exeggutor and Lanturns without Ice Beam and a solid check to Quagsire.

    Awesome team man
  8. BKC

    BKC sorrow flew on black wings
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    I've never played NU at all, but this team is excellent and I just have to rate it. After scrolling through your threat list, I noticed that Shell Smash Carracosta will sweep you easily, grabbing a boost easily against Swellow. SD Samurott is also a problem; although it has a fairly hard time setting up, +2 Waterfall / Aqua Jet / Megahorn will cut through your team with ease. The reason you have these problems is because your physical wall is 4x weak to Water. So, my suggestion is to add a backup physical wall that will counter these threats to hell and back: Quagsire! To make room, I'd drop Lanturn, because their roles and typing are really similar and therefore your synergy will remain mostly the same. Anyways, here is the set:

    Quagsire @ Leftovers | Unaware
    Relaxed | 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
    Toxic | Earthquake | Scald | Recover


    Props on the great team, I might get into NU because of this RMT. Hope I helped, gl!
  9. NatGeo

    NatGeo sun's coming up
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    Excellent, excellent team man. This is really probably the best team this early metagame will see until tennisace decides to reveal what he's running atm 9.9 Anyways, there isn't much you can do to handle physical Water-types without really messing up the core of this team. Maybe Eviolite Frillish could work? I mean, it's not the best solution, but you still have a Ghost-type and you have more reliable recovery. It's not the best solution though, but with a team like this you pretty much just have to pick your weaknesses! Awesome team :D
  10. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken paradise lost
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    Thank you! It's not a useless post because compliments are awesome and I really didn't expect anyone to post at all. :3

    Amazingly enough, Camerupt can tank a Dugtrio EQ if needed and still live a Klinklang's +0 Return (not so sure about +1 though). It's really not too much of a burden especially if I can keep Dugtrio away from Camerupt. Thanks for the rate though!

    I didn't play with Gen 4 NU either at all, though I think at one point I wanted to try but those rumors about 3 Fire-types absolutely dominating the metagame were kind of off-putting. And it really is surprisingly fun and there's a lot of originality involved - especially when you consider that even Pokemon like Camerupt can succeed. Anyway, thank you!

    Thanks shnen. And yeah, I put that threatlist together by hand, though I cut a ton of Pokemon from that NU tier list that I didn't think were worth mentioning (like Golduck).

    One of the only issues I have with running Volt Switch > Substitute is that it no longer allows me to set up as easily on anything. Roselia, Tangela, Alomomola, Wartortle... all are suddenly able to deal with Klinklang a lot more easily with status (Stun Spore, Sleep Powder, Scald) and stuff like Leech Seed. I think removing Substitute really cuts into his longevity and also prevents me from being able to beat things like Scarf Sawk, since I can't Substitute after a boost and guarantee an OHKO with Frustration/Gear Grind. It's something to consider since I won't lose to Magneton and stuff, but I really think I'd miss the reliability that Substitute gives me. You wouldn't believe the amount of games I've won just because I got up a Sub against Tangela and then proceeded to sweep the opponent's team, where I wouldn't have been able to do that without Substitute.

    As far as Absol goes, I think the best I can do without changing anything is to simply opt for Quick Attack > Protect on Swellow, but that opens several other issues like being unable to deal with opposing Smeargle too well and making weather/TR teams a little harder to handle. I think, while Cacturne helps with Quagsire and Lanturn, that's all it really helps with because other physical Water-types like Carracosta and Samurott ream Cacturne with Stone Edge/Megahorn respectively. It's definitely worth a try though, thank you!

    I really, really like this suggestion tbh. The only real weaknesses I think it opens is a slight one to Magmortar with HP Grass (though I can simply use SpD on Camerupt instead, as Quagsire checks almost all of the things physically defensive Camerupt does just as well) and a big one to Gorebyss who still does a ton to Quagsire with HP Grass and Quaggy can't do much back besides Toxic and hope it gets worn down. I think it'd fit fantastically though, especially if Gorebyss were to get ~removed~ in this next round of NU. Thanks for the rate and I hope you do get involved! :D

    Eheheh, if tennis is posting the team I think he is then it's incredibly similar to mine. Eviolite Frillish is something I've considered and it'd help me massively with those physical Water-types, but it also makes it harder to deal with powerful EQ users like Rhydon. Thanks for the rate though! :)

    edit: Turns out that Lanturn, Smeargle (fuk u MK) and Klinklang were all bumped up to RU. ;-;
  11. NatGeo

    NatGeo sun's coming up
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    oh dam :(
  12. VN.

    VN. the birds pt. 1
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    Not gonna leave my BFF's team unrated !

    Either way, I can honestly say that this is the best BW NU team as of yet and the descriptions and layout are both wonderful. While the tier shifts pretty much bring its reign to an end, maybe you'll be able to use it in the future, or in some tour reminiscent of the first stage of NU. I'm not sure how valuable Ice Beam is on Lanturn, since Altaria can always be Toxic'd and then stalled/roared out, so you could always move Heal Bell to Lanturn and give Misdreavus Perish Song to completely quell CMers, since Mesprit can probably end up beating it 1 on 1.
  13. Eradicator

    Eradicator

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    Hey, just wanted to stop by and say props to a great RMT. You've taught me a lot and inspired me to get into this tier. I think I'll check it out!

    btw sorry for not making a rate, but I kinda wanted to post this.
  14. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken paradise lost
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    That's what I was thinking, too, though I like to Ice Beam Altaria right off the bat because I could potentially have an issue with it afterwards. It also prevents stupid antics with defensive Heal Bell Altaria. :s Also Missy always beats Mesprit 1 on 1, unless I come in when it's +2 or something. Thanks for the rate though bro. :)

    Thank you! That's what I was hoping to do :)
  15. WayOfRhetoric

    WayOfRhetoric

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    As it was said above, it's the kind of time that you can't feel free to rate or help because the team is already finished and it shows us the kind of teams we could encounter in the early meta. It reaches its maximum. So, congratulations and I think this team will be a sort of reference ;)!
  16. BattleStar

    BattleStar

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    This is a great team!

    I know it's finished ( we lost so many good pokes) but are you interested in making it adapt to the new tiers?
  17. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken paradise lost
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    Thank you!

    Heh, thanks. I'm not particularly interested in adapting it to the new metagame especially since half the team ended up jumping ship to RU. I was considering it if only Lanturn, Klinklang, and Swellow left (for example, Swellow is more or less easily replaced by Cinccino) but really since Smeargle moved up too there isn't much to use to try and rebuild a Spikestacking team. Glalie or Cacturne are really the best offensive Spikers left, and neither of them are nearly as good as Smeargle was.
  18. Oh My Biscuits

    Oh My Biscuits

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    After fighting this like, 20 bajillion times, I'm sad to see this team go. It was an amazing team and finished before the RMT was even created. And with that, a final goodbye to the balanced NU tier. I honestly think this should be kept in the archives.
  19. MMF

    MMF Give me the strength to part this sea

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    Hey Zeb awesome team dude. Theres not much you can say since this was one of the better teams out there. See you in the new meta!
  20. col49

    col49 you know I used to try
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    writes the misdreavus analysis
    instantly speed creeps on it
    found that sorta amusing

    Anywho yeah, I know this team is basically hosed now, due to half of the members getting the boot from NU, so I guess this is more congratulatory than anything. So yeah, congrats lol. Spike-Stacking Offense has taken a pretty big blow with the loss of Smeargle, which makes me upset (im that guy trying to make Garbador work :P). But whatever, I suppose sometimes ya gotta just let things go and hope for the best. Good team, great read, greater message. Thanks for that, I appreciate it. GL in the future bud
  21. SuperPascal

    SuperPascal

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    It's an amazing team you got there, Zeb :). Probably the best NU team for stage 0. I was quite happily surprised when I saw that you mentioned me in your intro. Anyways, there's no point for me to give advice since stage 0 is already finished and that team was near perfect.

    Now let's see who will make the best NU team for stage 1! We will probably battle again soon.
  22. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken paradise lost
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    Hehe, thanks. I appreciate it! x)

    Thanks MMF.

    Yeah, I think I still could have made it work without Klinklang and Lanturn but losing Smeargle was the killshot. (I also was speed creeping on everything else trying to outrun Adamant Torterra - particularly Absol in case I had to burn it.) Thanks for the compliments, and you too!!

    Thanks SuperPascal. That means quite a lot coming from you. x)

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