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Goodbye Tornadus-T! (New Rain Team)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Kollin708, Jan 20, 2013.

  1. Kollin708

    Kollin708

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2012
    Messages:
    12
    Goodbye Tornadus-T!​

    [​IMG]
    Introduction

    Hey everyone! Since officially joining Smogon I haven't really been too active on the forums. Ive thrown in my 2 cents on maybe 3 topics, and I've made 2 really poorly done RMTs. This one I'm going to try to make a little more serious.

    All rejoice! The problem known as Tornadus-T has been banned to Übers! And that's exactly what it was. A problem. I think most of us do indeed agree that when our tried and true steel types are switching into Tornadus-T taking 40% damage from it, then attempting to hit it, only to be out-sped and hit with another hurricane. Become confused, hit yourself, and be taken out by another hurricane. Next you switch out to revenge kill, and Torn just switches out and regenerates its health back to full from the life orb hits it took. That's a problem.

    With so many nerfs, and such to permanent rain since the 5th Generation meta-game's inception, you'd probably think rain teams suck now. You could not be more wrong. There is still so many toys that can be used. Pokes that can go from zero to hero, just because of the rain.

    I am really quite proud of this team. As good as Torn was, teambuilding now has a lot more possibilities. Hopefully you'll enjoy it too!

    Edits in: Red

    Originally:
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    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    The Team:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
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    Politoed
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
    Modest Nature
    -Hydro Pump
    -Ice Beam
    -Focus Blast
    -Perish Song

    Oh great one, the bringer of the downpour. With an offensive team like this, I figured Choice Specs Politoed would be the best way to go. Very little explanation needed here. Probably the best way to get the most use out of your Politoed here. Ya'know early on in the BW meta-game I figured if you were using rain, sun, or hail, you were basically using 5 pokes. That is until I tried out Choice Specs Politoed. Do not underestimate it's power. There isn't really actually that much that wants to switch in on it in the OU meta-game. Summoning rain upon switch in, followed by firing off a STAB, Choice Specs Hydro Pump requires absolutely no thought. Those are the best things in Pokémon. Things that can be done with little actual thought or skill that reliably work. Also noobs are caught off guard by its power. Lol. Perish Song is mainly for SubCM Latias and such that this team struggles slightly in dealing with. (Pointed out by Leftiez)

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    Keldeo-R
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    -Hydro Pump
    -Secret Sword
    -Hidden Power (Ghost/Electric)
    -Surf

    Say hello to the best user of the Choice Scarf in the OU meta-game. I heard someone say in a thread once. S/He said something like this, imagine if Terrakion had a STAB boosted by sand, and another STAB that hits physical walls for huge damage. You'd have Keldeo. Again very little explanation needed of the set. With a 108 base speed, and good natural bulk. Keldeo lives all priority in the tier and out-speeds most of the rest and hits them for huge damage. It revenge kills so many threats, and cleans up better than any thing I can think of with the rain up. On the Hidden Power type I'm looking for someone to tell me which one you think would be the better choice. I'm leaning toward and using Ghost as of now.

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    Landorus-T
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 200 HP / 64 Atk / 244 Def
    Adamant Nature
    -Stealth Rock
    -Earthquake
    -U-turn
    -Stone Edge

    If you're looking to get up Stealth Rock early, and easily look no further than Landorus-T. A great pivot, and fits very well on this team I think. Almost always my lead against Sun teams, as if they lead with Ninetales as most do. Lando can threaten it out with Earthquake, and get up first-turn Rocks. A great check to a number of the big threats in OU, and counters Terrakion. With an offensive team like this Landorus-T is great at coming in intimidating physical attackers, and then usually U-turn accordingly to get switch initiative , offensive pressure, and the momentum. With so much investment defensively you will be very pleased to know that it is still a hugely potent offensive threat hitting 376 Atk with 64 EVs and the Adamant Nature.

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    Originally:
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    Latias
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    -Calm Mind
    -Recover
    -Dragon Pulse
    -Psyshock/Surf
    Show Hide

    Ferrothorn
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD (0 Spe IVs)
    Relaxed Nature
    -Spikes
    -Leech Seed
    -Protect
    -Gyro Ball

    Thanks to Novaray and Leftiez. Ferrothorn patches up some severe weaknesses this team had before. I don't know why I wasn't considering Ferrothorn in the first place. My heart was pretty much set on using Latias. In the rain, Ferrothorn walls so many threats... I put on the Rocky Helmet, because I can pretty easily lure a dragon into using Outrage/Dragon Claw and punish it for 25% damage, while not taking much myself. Combine that with Leech Seed, and it's easy to see why Ferrothorn is so high in usage. Rain nerfs down it's fire weakness, so it turns into a great special wall, as Latias was. With the modest 94 Base Atk stat, and 40 Speed after the minus nature and 0 IVs, STAB Gyro Ball can pack a nice punch on Dragons, Gyarados, and other threats. Novaray had suggested Thunder Wave in Protect's slot, but Thunder Wave and Gyro Ball on the same set is slightly counter-productive. Although some offensive pressure is gone with Ferrothorn, I think overall the team has become much better.


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    Originally:

    Show Hide
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    -Substitute
    -Swords Dance
    -Close Combat
    -Stone Edge
    Terrakion
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    -Close Combat
    -Stone Edge
    -X-Scissor
    -Quick Attack


    Thanks to Limitless on this one. With something like Double Dance Thundurus-T as the team's main sweeper, it made little sense to keep Terrakion's Sub-Salac set around. With a Choice Band, it's made much easier to help Thundurus-T get ready for a sweep. Choice Banded Terrakion is so good- I'm just going to stop there before I go on much longer. IMO, Choice Banded Terrakion and Choice Scarf Keldeo (Especially under the rain) are the two biggest offensive threats in this meta-game. I still think, however, that some people don't truly recognize how big of a threat Choice Banded Terrakion really is. I mean, it 2HKO's max defense Skarmory! With a Choice Banded Terrakion the jobs of Keldeo and Thundurus-T are that much easier.


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    Originally:​

    Show Hide
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    -Agility
    -Thunder
    -Hidden Power (Ice)
    -Grass Knot/Focus Blast
    Show Hide


    Thundurus-T
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 152 HP / 252 SpA / 104 Spe
    Modest Nature
    -Agility
    -Nasty Plot
    -Thunder
    -Hidden Power Ice


    Thanks again to Limitless for helping me make the decision to ultimately go with the Double Dancing Thundurus-T. Thanks as well to CTC for exposing us to this particular set. Also thanks to Gr8 for showing CTC this set (Lol). This set really is pure win. It is much easier than you'd think to get to +2, +2, with these EVs. It really is a surprising amount of bulk, while still maintaining enough speed to out-speed everything in the meta-game at +2 barring Timid, Scarfed, Starmie. There are actually quite a lot of opportunities for Thundurus-T to get both at +2, and if it does, it is gg. There is almost nothing that can be done. This current meta-game has nothing that can completely stop it's sweep.


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    Conclusion:​


    First off I'd like to apologize for my poor ability to explain sets and reasons Pokes are on the team. If you have any knowledge of the meta-game you already know everything I said in there. Lol. Hopefully the team can just speak for itself :/

    Anyways, this is going to be my go-to-team in Standard until the possible banning of Keldeo, Terrakion, or even both. Don't really have anything else to say. I think this team can be really successful in anyone's hands. I quite like the way this RMT turned out, as it was the first one I actually put some time into. I also promise to you, Smogon, that I will become more active. Hope you enjoyed! Any and all feedback, welcome!


    Importable:
    (Updated)

    Show Hide
    Politoed (F) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Focus Blast
    - Perish Song

    Keldeo (Keldeo-R) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power [Ghost]
    - Surf

    Landorus-T (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 200 HP / 64 Atk / 244 Def
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - U-turn
    - Stone Edge

    Ferrothorn (M) @ Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Spikes
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect
    - Gyro Ball

    Terrakion @ Choice Band
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Quick Attack

    Thundurus-T (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 152 HP / 252 SAtk / 104 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Agility
    - Nasty Plot
    - Thunder
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
  2. Nova

    Nova Palisades
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    1,521
    Hi Kollin708

    This is a very solid Offensive Rain team you have here. With your combination of Specs Politoed, Scarf Keldeo, and Sub+Salace Terrakion among others, you can really put a lot of pressure on your opponent. Looking at your team, I can see a slight weakness to opposing Double Dance Thundurus-T. He can set up against Politoed and Keldeo locked into resisted moves and can sweep you late game once Latias is weakened. The sets that carry Focus Blast don't give you much trouble as Latias and Landorus-T can both check it but those that pack Hidden Power Ice can give you some grief. Another threat to your team is Choice Specs Latios. Without any Steel types on your team, every time Latios comes in, he gets to fire off a free Draco Meteor that will OHKO something on your team. The only thing you have that outspeed Latios is Keldeo who can only hit it with HP Ghost which does around 50% after which Latios OHKOs with Draco Meteor or Psyshock. For these threats, I suggest replacing Latias with a Specially Defensive Ferrothorn with a moveset of Spikes / Leech Seed / Thunder Wave / Gyro Ball. Ferrothorn can take boosted HP Ices and Thunders from Thundurus-T and heal itself while doing damage with Leech Seed or hit it with a Gyro Ball that is quite powerful even resisted due to Thundurus-T's frail defenses. Ferrothorn also gives you a way to tank Dragon-type attacks, he can Thunder Wave Latios to make it a much smaller threat and hit it with Gyro Ball. Spikes is helpful for your team alongside Landorus-T's Stealth Rock to help your sweepers sweep more easily. Thunder Wave is also helpful as it slows down your opponents and allows your sweepers to set up more freely.

    For Keldeo, I suggest Hidden Power Ghost over Electric. HP Ghost allows you to hit Latios and Latias as well as the primary Keldeo, Jellicent, for at least some damage. HP Electric is namely for Gyarados but your other Pokemon can beat Gyarados easily if it has not Dragon Danced and Ferrothorn can typically beat him after he has DD'ed. Lastly, I would try Hidden Power Grass on Politoed over Surf. Whenever I've used Specs Politoed, I never found myself using Surf, mainly just spamming Hydro Pumps, and HP Grass can help you beat Gastrodon.

    Hope I helped and good luck with your team!


    Set:
    Show Hide
    Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef -Spd)
    -Spikes
    -Leech Seed
    -Thunder Wave
    -Gyro Ball



    tl;dr
    Show Hide
    Latias ----> Specially Defensive Ferrothorn
    Hidden Power Ghost on Keldeo
    Surf on Politoed ----> Hidden Power Grass
  3. Kollin708

    Kollin708

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2012
    Messages:
    12
    Yeah I've definitely noticed these weaknesses... Ferrothorn over Latias could probably patch those up nicely. However the whole reason I have put Latias on the team is to be a defensive check, while also having an offensive presence. I feel like, while Ferrothorn would also be a great defensive check to a number of threats, it would slow down my momentum and offensive pressure at the same time. I don't know, maybe I'll get warmed up to the idea in time. Thanks for the feedback.

    I've had HP Grass over Surf on Politoed before, and it has lost me games. Yes, the set is mostly for just blindly firing off Hydro Pumps, but when I don't have to rely on it's 80% accuracy late-game, I really enjoy Surf. Also, I feel Gastrodon and Jellicent are so uncommon now that you're benefiting so much more often from Surf than HP Grass.

    Thanks again.
  4. Leftiez

    Leftiez *Stars*

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,141
    Hi there.
    I totally agree with Novaray, it is a team very interesting and very solid, but I see a weakness against Thundurus-T, if it has agility you're very disadvantaged, because it outspeed Keldeo, Terrakion and Latias cannot kill him and gets a 2HKO by Hidden Power Ice, then I see that you are weak against Gyarados, he can set up easily on Politoed or Keldeo when they are blocked, after a Dragon Dance it outspeed Thundurus-T/Terrakion/Latias then Gyarados has chances to resist against Hidden Power Electric (252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Electric vs. 4 HP / SpD Gyarados 0: 304-360 (91.56 - 108.43%)--50% chance to OHKO) and generally Gyarados has the move Substitute, then you are also disadvantaged against Latios/Latias, because you have no steel for tank Dragon Pulse or Draco Meteor, I also suggest you put Ferrothorn on Latias, Ferrothorn is a very good pokemon for your team, it can easily come on Latios and Latias with Leech Seed + Toxic, then Ferrothorn is a good counter to Gyarados because Gyarados is forced to use Bounce, Gyarados takes 30% on gyroball after a Dragon Dance. Why Toxic? I explain you: If the opponent has Latias Sub CM, you are disadvantage even with Ferrothorn because the opponent can PP wast Gyroball (8 PP) with Recover + Substitute and you can not kill him properly with Leech Seed, then Gyroball is less effective after Thunder Wave, now with Toxic you can easily kill Latias Sub CM, then you can surprise the opponent with Toxic for: Breloom (without Poison Heal) / Çelebi/ Ninetales.

    For Keldeo I suggest you put Hidden Power Electric because if the opponent play Gyarados + Magnezone you're going to be very disadvantage, then it's often used and for Politoed i suggest you swap Surf with Perish Song to prevent the annoying pokemons to set up.

    Ferrothorn (open)
    Ferrothorn (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 156 SDef
    0 Ivs Speed
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Toxic
    - Gyro Ball
    - Spikes
    - Leech Seed


    Tl;dr
    Show Hide
    Latias--->Ferrothorn
    Keldeo--->Hidden Power Electric
    Politoed--->Perish Song


    Hope I Helped and Good Luck with your Team.

    ~Leftiez
  5. Kollin708

    Kollin708

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2012
    Messages:
    12
    Alright, I've been convinced. Ferrothorn is taking Latias' place. I've never really seen Toxic on Ferrothorn... I think I'll just stick to my standard Ferrothorn set. I considered Perish Song over Surf, but again I see more situations where I'll be needing Surf. Also with Ferrothorn under the rain with Leech Seed and Gyro Ball it's even less needed. I think for now with Ferrothorn on the team I'll stick with HP Ghost on Keldeo, as Ferrothorn will Wall Gyarados completely.
  6. Leftiez

    Leftiez *Stars*

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,141
    Yes, it is just to be safe, and toxic on Ferrothorn is for counter Sub CM Latias, who made a 6-0 even with Ferrothorn and that is why I suggest you Perish Song
  7. Kollin708

    Kollin708

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2012
    Messages:
    12
    I'm uneasy and I know it'll come back to bite me in the ass, but Perish Song over Surf it is. I still fail to see the reasoning for Toxic on Ferrothorn. If it's for SubCM Latias... If SubCM Latias were to stay in on a Ferrothorn in the first place, the first thing it would do, is Sub down to avoid Leech Seed/Thunder Wave.
  8. Limitless

    Limitless Success is the best revenge.
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,095
    Structurally, your team looks to be very solid and can cover a majority of the metagame, while also dishing out a lot in return. However, you do have some peculiar sets that could be made more efficient, given the other pieces to your team.


    • Change Politoed to a defensive set. The only reason reason that you have an offensive Politoed is to be able to have an advantage against sun teams. You already have plenty of options in Thund and Terak to at least have a chance against sun teams. For this reason, I'd run defensive nature/evs, with the set: Scald / Ice Beam / Encore / Toxic.
    • For Keldeo, the only reason you would run Hidden Power Electric would be for Gyarados. Technically, you could play around it, but it is acceptable to have it on Keldeo. I really don't get why you would possibly need Hidden Power Ghost. So really, the only question is whether or not you need to use Hidden Power Ice. You're running a pretty defensive Landlos-T, so there really is no reason to run it, especially if you also have Ferro. Just run Hidden Power Electric, who will help against Gyarados and Jelli.
    • I'd highly recommend changing your Thund-T set to Agility / Nasty Plot / Thunder / Hidden Power Ice. This set is more dominant than your current set. This should also classify it as your main sweeper of the team - the purpose of the team.
    • Since Thund-T seems to be the end game sweeper, there really is no reason to have Sub on Terak. Just change it to either a Choice Band or Life Orb variant. Your Terak should be used to break the opposing team, not try to sweep.
  9. Kollin708

    Kollin708

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2012
    Messages:
    12
    OK, I will try out the Double Dance Thundurus-T set. You're probably right about Terrakion as well. It ought to just be Banded. I'll get a lot more out of it for what this team is going for. On Politoed, I don't want to change a defensive set. I want more offensive firepower out of it. I don't see much reason to change.

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