1. GET SMOGON SHIRTS HERE! First time ever. Limited time only & next time the design will be different, so get it while you can!
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  3. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Pokémon Goodra [REVAMP]

Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by TheTaBuu, Oct 13, 2013.

  1. TheTaBuu

    TheTaBuu

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Messages:
    494
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] / --
    Goodra | #706
    [Smogon OU Analysis | Serebii | Bulbapedia]​
    Overview - **finally revamped!**
    ########
    Frankly put, Goodra is a very interesting 600 BST pseudo-legendary Pokémon. Unlike its more aggressive draconic brethren, Goodra seems to emphasize a whole lot more on bulk, specifically Special bulk. Goodra still possesses a respectable 100/110 offense stat but its base 150 Special Defense is what really sets it apart. Considering the base power nerfs to various Special Attack moves and the introduction of the amazing Assault Vest, Goodra's niche as a special tank is more than viable in this generation. But that's not all. Goodra has a movepool almost as large as its pot-belly - ranging from Ice Beam to Earthquake, Goodra is seriously a difficult Pokémon to safely switch into. And if Goodra's movepool isn't enough to wow you, check out its abilities. Hydration is pretty subpar this generation due to the Drizzle nerf, but its still usable on rain-dedicated teams. Sap Sipper and Gooey are the real highlights however. Getting an Attack boost from switching into Spore, Sleep Powder, Giga Drain, etc while boasting Grass immunity is pretty interesting to say the least. Gooey slows down the opposition should they choose to make a contact move on Goodra ; this can prove to be fatal to the opposition if their Pokémon relies on Speed to win the game.
    However, despite its versatility and bulk, Goodra is definitely a Pokémon with flaws. It possesses a subpar base 80 speed alongside a poor base 70 Defense stat. This makes Goodra extremely susceptible to Physically-based Pokémon - and considering just how many new Physically-based threats we have in Generation VI, things aren't looking too hot for Goodra. Goodra also lacks a reliable recovery which is a huge hindrance to any defensively-oriented Pokemon. To add insult to injury, Goodra is susceptible to every form of entry hazard - Stealth Rock, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, you name it.

    Movesets - **credits to darkie !**
    ########
    Assault Vest Tank
    ########
    name: Assault Vest Tank
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Fire Blast
    move 3: Thunderbolt / Sludge Bomb
    move 4: Dragon Tail / Earthquake
    ability: Sap Sipper / Gooey
    item: Assault Vest
    nature: Quiet / Sassy
    evs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD

    Show Hide
    Moves
    ========
    - draco meteor is goodra's strongest attack and allows it to do a lot of damage while taking very little.
    - for example, with the given set, Goodra can take any offensive OU Dragon's Draco Meteor while OHKOing at the same time (with the exception of defensive Latias, Zygarde, and opposing Goodra):
    252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 300-354 (78.1 - 92.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 270-320 (70.3 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    - fire blast hits ferrothorn, klefki, other steels, etc. anything weak to fire
    - thunderbolt will hit azumarill and anything weak to electric.
    - together, fire blast and tbolt will hit any fairy you might need to attack, making sludge bomb unnecessary.
    - sludge bomb does have good utility though, with it's 30% chance to poison while still hitting fairies.
    - dragon tail helps phaze and provide good team support, especially with hazards up.
    - since heatran completely walls this set, Earthquake is also an option to use in Dragon Tail's spot.

    Set Details
    ========
    - maxing spA lets goodra really function as a tank by being able to dish out a ton of damage
    - quiet nature reinforces that, while sassy allows it to take less damage. 252 SpA from base 110 still hits pretty hard
    - 248 evs for stealth rock

    - sap sipper gives goodra an immunity, which is extremely welcome on a pokemon with no recovery, allowing it to come in virtually unscathed on a predicted grass attack. it's also immune to spore and other grass type status moves because of this!

    - on the other hand, gooey is also quite useful to potentially turn the tide of the battle to your favor.
    - sap sipper is preferred because goodra does not like taking physical hits, and most contact hits (with the exception of 2 rarely used moves and grass knot) are physical. if goodra is taking physical hits, you're in a bad position anyway.
    - that said, it can be helpful to switch in on random resisted contact hits or as a last-ditch effort to stop an opponent's sweep.

    - assault vest makes the set but leftovers is also an option

    ########
    Specs
    ########
    name: All-Out Offense
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Fire Blast
    move 3: Thunderbolt
    move 4: Focus Blast
    ability: Gooey / Sap Sipper
    item: Choice Specs
    nature: Modest
    evs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD

    Show Hide

    Moves
    ========
    - given moveset are Goodra's best coverage moves
    - Draco Meteor off of boosted 110 base Special Attack hits HARD.
    - Fire Blast and Thunderbolt together hit most fairies but Sludge Wave is also an option over either to hit certain targets.

    Set Details
    ========
    - 248 EVs give Goodra's maximum odd HP to avoid the odd scenario where Goodra could die just by switching into hazards a number of times.

    - since this Goodra does not carry a physical move, Gooey is preferred over Sap Sipper but Sap Sipper's ability to make Goodra immune to Grass (and thereby, most sleep moves) is still very useful.

    - choice specs is necessary in order for goodra to hit as hard as it can.

    ########
    Specially Defensive
    ########
    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Dragon Pulse
    move 2: Flamethrower
    move 3: Thunderbolt
    move 4: Toxic / Dragon Tail
    ability: Sap Sipper / Gooey
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Calm / Sassy
    evs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD

    Show Hide

    Moves
    ========
    - this set is built more for stallish teams and as such has a moveset to correspond
    - dragon pulse deals more consistent damage than draco meteor
    - flamethrower and thunderbolt provide coverage
    - the last moveslot depends on your team:
    - toxic is the more versatile option to badly poison opponents, but
    - if your team is heavy on hazards, dragon tail may be the better option to deal passive damage
    - if you go with toxic, earthquake is also an option over thunderbolt to hit non-levitating poison types who are immune to toxic.

    Set Details
    ========
    - for this set, sap sipper gives a slight benefit thanks to the extra immunity which can be invaluable on a stall team.
    - gooey is also a fine option, however, since stall teams are generally slow, the speed drop may not be beneficial.
    - if you do have a few slightly speedy pokemon that can take advantage of gooey, feel free to go with gooey over sap sipper.
    - leftovers is unfortunately Goodra's most reliable form of recovery
    - the evs emphasize goodra's special bulk. use calm with toxic and sassy with dragon tail and/or earthquake
    - for a more balanced defensive spread, try the following: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD with a Bold (with toxic) or Relaxed (with dragon tail/earthquake) nature.


    Personal Opinion
    ########
    While Goodra may not be the most offensively potent Pokemon in XY, Goodra has definitely carved itself a niche into the OU metagame, an impressive feat for any Pokémon. That being said, Goodra should always be played to its strengths - tanking hits and dishing out damage. Due to its very specific build, Goodra has some trouble breaking out of its "comfort zone" and applying new strategies.
    However, as the metagame changes, so do the Pokémon. Does Goodra have any other niches/roles it can successfully fulfill, without being outclassed? If so, what kind of sets? Discuss!
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2014
    -Flygon-, Jaguar360, Hyota and 7 others like this.
  2. Dovahhkiin64

    Dovahhkiin64

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2013
    Messages:
    54
    Impressive. Also you should make a set with it using earthquake or a full physical set.
    Dashspin and TheTaBuu like this.
  3. ArkWelder

    ArkWelder

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2013
    Messages:
    77
    I have actually tested a Goodra similar to this one and it does not work very well at all. Simply put, with Drizzle nerfed rain stall is not too potent anymore. After 5 or 8 turns, your Goodra suddenly is bulkless, and you give all the momentum to your opponent. You can also be caught in a situation where you need to use rest on the last turn of Rain, and because of how move resolve the rain will peter out before you hydration kicks in, leaving you asleep. I've also tried Goodra who has Rain dance itself, but this gives it poor coverage. Dragon + Fire is good coverage, but you are actively weakening one of your moves by using rain dance. I think Goodra has a lot of potential, but not as a hydration wall. Unfortunately it came one gen too late for that. I'm looking into its ability Gooey and seeing how that could be used as a supportive defensive pivot.
  4. Zero Dozer

    Zero Dozer

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2013
    Messages:
    5
    Interesting. Also, Goodra's stat distribution is quite new for a Pseudo-Legendary (for what I remember, Hydreigon's distribution focus on SAtk).

    Looking at him, it is quite obvious that his true abilities actually lie in a Rain-based team.
  5. TheTaBuu

    TheTaBuu

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Messages:
    494
    I'm going to have to seriously change up the tank set. Thank you~
    If you get a Gooey set before I make one, please let me! I'll post it up
  6. Manaphy

    Manaphy

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Messages:
    695
    I'm going to be honest here, Goodra is completely disappointing. Being a SpDed-based Dragon with Hydration-Rest is cool and all, but I'm finding it really hard for this Pokemon to actually do anything. It's Attack is simply bad and it's Special Attack is solid but simply not as strong as it used to be. Goodra might've been cool in OU in 5th Gen but I simply can't see it working with Drizzle nerf and fairies walking around in addition to the obvious old threats like Ferrothorn.
  7. PDC

    PDC D I R T
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,272
    Fire Blast + Hydration are this guys only saving Grace really, as otherwise I can't see much of a reason to use this guy, despite how cool he is. The Rain nerf certainly isn't helping him, and he isn't exactly the strongest Pokemon out there attacker wise. It's SDef is pretty impressive, and I can see it being a pretty cool way to check threats like Rotom-W, Starmie, Greninja, and maybe even Keldeo in the near future, but I really don't see it being too amazing.
  8. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,986
    So far, the best role for Goodra in OU seems as a special tank. Max HP / Max SpA with maybe a few Speed EVs to outspeed some defensive Pokemon. Checks Water-, Fire-, and Electric-types (which can't do shit back with the nerf to Hidden Power Ice), hits very hard from the special side and with awesome coverage, and can also drop the Speed of dangerous physical attackers on a whim to help the team, with the Gooey ability (eg. sacrifice Goodra against +1 Dragon Dance Dragonite so that the rest of your team can deal with it afterwards).
    TheTaBuu likes this.
  9. TheTaBuu

    TheTaBuu

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Messages:
    494
    I'll revamp this entire thread definitely guys thank you.
    I'm hoping more Goodra information will come in so I can make some solid sets
  10. Soda

    Soda

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2009
    Messages:
    114
    Do you know if Gooey works both ways? For example, if Goodra uses Outrage (a contact move) will it lower the speed of whatever it hits? That could certainly be interesting for Goodra. It doesn't get Dragon Dance though and it's got a better Special Attack and Special movepool.

    As it stands, I agree with everyone else. The Hydration train came last gen and now its long gone. Goodra will be alright but...yeah.
  11. Typhlito

    Typhlito One Spooky Dawg
    is an Artist

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    999
    I dunno. That sap sipper looks like it could have potential as a spore blocker so its a pretty good check on brelooms and ammongus without toxic plus the attack boost from it is kinda nice tho its still situational.
  12. RabidChipmunk

    RabidChipmunk

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2012
    Messages:
    493
    Then again, just use any Grass-type to do the same thing. Use a Grass/Poison-type and they'll block Toxic too!
  13. repulsion

    repulsion

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2009
    Messages:
    21
    Maybe include Sludge Bomb for coverage against Fairy types. Although it generally has bad coverage, it also hits Celebi, which is good if you're running it with Focus Blast, since you'd otherwise be walled by Fairies. The 30% poison chance is also nice for Hydration + Rest stall.
  14. TheTaBuu

    TheTaBuu

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Messages:
    494
    Potential Revamps:
    • I'll get rid of Hydration and put in place a set built around Sap Sipper. Seems like Hydration just isn't going to pull strings this Gen
    • Sludge Bomb will be considered
    • Honestly the superior ability is Gooey. It's just a matter of when it will be legal
  15. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    3,754
    This thing isn't bad, not outstanding, but not terrible either. Reminds me a little bit of Hydreigon in that it gets loads of coverage moves, but it lacks the speed to make it a top tier sweeper. I would highly recommend something like earthquake on a separate set, maybe something mixed or something, since its nice coverage, and you hit special walls a bit harder, Special Tank is prolly its best set tho.
    TheTaBuu likes this.
  16. WelshDragonite

    WelshDragonite

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2013
    Messages:
    32
    I think Goodra gets rain dance from its pre evo but would it take up a move slot space for hydration?

    EDIT: Didn't read there is already rain dance on the list my bad.

    What about a special wall like

    200 hp/252 spd/52 speed
    Ability: Hydration
    Item: Leftovers
    Moveset
    -Rain Dance
    -Rest
    -Toxic (if TM 06 still exists)
    -Dragon type move
    Counters: Fairies block Dragon type moves but not toxic with a exception of Mega Mawile and Kleftki due to being steel typing and immunity to dragon, also noting Ferrothorn Eats Toxic and dragon moves like a boss unless Goodra Packs Fire move but If there is a Drizzle toad on your team another rain support with a Weather rock to make up for its nerf then Replace Rain dance with a move that's viable, I haven't used it myself yet however I'l catch it, breed it and train it when I get further progress with my Pokémon X game
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
    TheTaBuu likes this.
  17. silenced

    silenced

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2012
    Messages:
    248
    Um, I'm wondering why everyone is going with dragon-fire coverage considering goodra works better under rain due to hydration, even if muddy water is the only special water move of note so far? Dragon/Water (Rain boosted water at that hopefully) scores perfect neutral coverage on everything but

    -Ferrothorn
    -Empoleon
    -Azumarril

    Only two of those pokemon have any business in OU whatsoever, with azumarril up for debate due to the rain nerf (empoleon can stay UU). If you really need to, use fire blast as well and take a care when you set up rain, leaving a move pool to look like this (I have not the knowledge of EV's for OU, so adjust accordingly)

    -Muddy water
    -Fire blast
    -Dragon pulse/draco meteor
    -Rest

    LO tank set. Actually if goodra gets focus miss, replace fire blast with that. Pity about the weather nerf, but certainly something for bulky offense to consider.
  18. Nubbins

    Nubbins

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2010
    Messages:
    274
    With gooey couldn't goodra run some sort of mixed wall? Or at least specially focused but physically defensive enough so that any physical attack has to wade through -2 speed before bringing it down.
  19. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,371
    Goodra is going to receive heavy competition from Latias and in my opinion I don't think it will win that competition. Both are very similar as Sp. Def oriented Dragons with high special attack stats. Let's compare:

    Goodra:
    Type: Dragon
    80 / 95 / 80 / 115 / 140 / 90
    Ability: Hydration / Sap Sipper / Gooey

    Latias:
    Type: Dragon / Psychic
    80 / 80 / 90 / 110 / 130 / 110
    Ability: Levitate

    So Goodra just barely has more special attack than Latias with 5 base stat points more and a bit more special defense with 10 base stat points more. Goodra also beats out Latias by the largest margin in its attack stat by 15 points. This is really underwhelming however considering that Goodra will stay specially based and won't use that attack unless it is a mixed set. Unforuntately for Goodra, the rain-turn nerf came and I can't see Hydration used reliably with effectively six turns to use it if you switched in Politoed and then switched it back out to Goodra. Damp Rock Politoed is more favored to offensive rain strategies. Sap Sipper is neat for a Spore immunity, but come on you already resist Grass. Gooey doesn't offer any merit defensively, which is Goodra's primary focus.

    Now let's check out Latias. It has 10 more physical defense than Goodra and it actually uses that stat to sponge hits against Fighting-types (Keldeo and Breloom). But the real killer is the speed stat: Latias is 20 points higher at base 110! Latias' speed stat has been key this gen to its success because it makes it a much more potent offensive threat outspending everything and it makes sure it doesn't need to get hit twice when switching in. Latias also beats out Goodra in the resist depart. As much as I give Latias crap for being so damn easy to Pursuit trap sometimes, that Psychic typing is key to it being a much more potent defensive threat: especially against top tier threats like Keldeo and Breloom. In addition, Levitate is better than any of Goodra's ability because it gives it a Spikes immunity (prevents it from getting worn down) on type to an immunity against EQ. Also Latias has reliable recovery with Recover or Roost, I haven't seen that with Goodra (yet) outside of HydraRest (goodra looks like a poke who would get recover though).

    So yeah, Goodra is going to have to show us something more significant to be a real game changer in OU. It would totally outclass Latias IMO if it were Poison / Dragon. seriously why aren't you poison / dragon you have "goo" in your name. shows how much a fail it is already
    alexwolf likes this.
  20. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,986
    Yeah, not being weak to Pursuit will be one of the main pros of Goodra over Latias. Its hidden ability also helps differentiate it a little bit. Oh, and of course now with the Hidden Power nerf Latias is going to be serious Spikes bait, giving to Goodra another advantage over it (Fire Blast). But overall, Latias is going to be the special tank of choice, unless Goodra gets some reliable recovery and maybe some other good moves too (Aromatherapy maybe?).
  21. TheTaBuu

    TheTaBuu

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Messages:
    494
    Latias and Goodra do have very similar traits but I think I outlined MixTank Set.
    Because Goodra has a higher Attack stat along with some interesting physical moves, Goodra can go mixed and tank, something Latias cannot do.
    Goodra also is Pursuit-Trap free which is a huge plus for any Pokemmon.
    Goodra also possess more variety in terms of ability while Latias is stuck with Levitate.
    This is a bit of speculation but seeing how Goodra is a tissue slug Pokemon and how pretty much every pseudo-legendary receives a healing move move, I would have to say that Recover is probably not too far off. Now if Goodra doesn't get Recover or Slack off then Latias will have a huge upper-hand in tanking. But if Goodra can grab a recovery move such as Recover or Slack Off, Goodra will definitely have enough tools to differentiate itself from Latias and maybe even outperform ... (?)
  22. TEzeon

    TEzeon I'm a ramblin gamblin dude!
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
    118
    PillsburyDoughBoy beat me to the punch. Goodra is kind of outclassed by Latias, who comes with a resistance to Fighting type moves and an immunity to Ground type moves. She is also significantly faster and has a bit more movepool options.

    What Goodra really needed was Bulk Up/Curse/Calm Mind. If he had any of those moves, he could have been a much bigger threat thanks to the Hydration + Rest shenanigans. I think Gooey has some cool potential for more offensive teams that need a good pivot.

    Goodra @ Leftovers
    Ability: Gooey
    EVs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Fire Blast
    - Focus Blast
    - Sludge Bomb / Ice Beam / Thunderbolt

    The idea is to switch in on a contact move from something, and lower their speed. That would essentially be like giving you a Choice Scarf, and from there you can attack with a wide variety of moves for some big damage. The speed and bulk could be reworked to deal with specific things. Its just some food for thought for now, since Gooey hasn't been released as of yet.
    AccidentalGreed and TheTaBuu like this.
  23. TheTaBuu

    TheTaBuu

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Messages:
    494
    Very interesting set! I actually like how you're using Gooey. Biggest problem : Goodra is really frail. It needs to be switching into Close Combats, Mach Punches, Brave Birds, ExtremeSpeeds in order to fully abuse Gooey. Could you post some calculations to show us how well the spread works?

    And I agree that Goodra needs a boosting move. GameFreak always shows some consideration for the pseduo's, so I feel like Goodra will gain either Work Up, Calm Mind or Bulk Up. Maybe even Dragon Dance :D

    **Questions + Response Section Updated**
  24. SHUCKLE MAN

    SHUCKLE MAN

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,187
    I don't actually think weather teams will be poor due to the nerf of auto-weather abilities. I've seen a lot of people saying this, however, I remember in Gen IV UU Rain Dance teams were very prominent at one point, and Damp Rock was voted on as a result iirc. My point is, it was possible for rain to be very useful in a metagame with no Drizzle Pokemon at all, so I'm sure weather can still be viable this gen.
  25. Ride The Lightning

    Ride The Lightning

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    218
    I use a RestTalk Goodra, which is surprisingly effective, thanks to its gargantuan Special Defense.

    Goodra @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sap Sipper
    EVs: 144 SAtk / 252 HP / 88 SDef
    Modest Nature
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Sludge Bomb/Flamethrower
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    It's pretty weird using Sludge Bomb, considering it more or less sucked last generation. Steel types are a definite counter though, so Flamethrower can be used in place. If you want to abuse Sap Sipper's attack boosts, physical moves with attack EV's can be used instead. I prefer using the special set because Goodra doesn't have to rely on a boost to deal decent damage.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)