Pokémon Goodra [REVAMP]

[shrang]

Uuuh, I'm sorry to be a jackass here, but would you mind explaining to me how a Pokemon that's clearly a special tank only has a mixed set in the OP? Worst yet, a mixed set with Outrage, in a metagame where fairies look like they'll pounce on your ass? Its base Attack isn't even that good. The closest Pokemon I'm seeing this Pokemon to compare to is Latias, not Hydreigon. It has 115/140 special stats. The first sets that should come to mind are:

- Choice Specs
- LO special tank with HydraRest
- Depending on its defensive movepool, some full-blown walling sets

 

[TaBuu]

Uuuh, I'm sorry to be a jackass here, but would you mind explaining to me how a Pokemon that's clearly a special tank only has a mixed set in the OP? Worst yet, a mixed set with Outrage, in a metagame where fairies look like they'll pounce on your ass? Its base Attack isn't even that good. The closest Pokemon I'm seeing this Pokemon to compare to is Latias, not Hydreigon. It has 115/140 special stats. The first sets that should come to mind are:

- Choice Specs
- LO special tank with HydraRest
- Depending on its defensive movepool, some full-blown walling sets

Partially my fault , let me explain myself :
Back in v1, the OP actually had a Special Tank set. However, if you read the earlier comments, there were some suggestions to using Mixed Variants due to the fact that its Special Tank set was severely outclassed.
I'll put a tank set back up when I have the time.
Thanks for pointing it out and understanding!

 

[modus_ataraxia]

So, on the topic of defensive Goodra, my Goodra is Bold nature, with 31 IVs in Defense and Sp. Attack. Is this a good setup, and if so, where should I be putting my EV spread?

I'm just wondering if Goodra would benefit more from pumping defense and tanking both defensive stats, or if I should just be pumping Sp. Defense to the max.

 

[EpixAura]

Remember that since fairies are immune to Dragon, if they switch into an Outrage you won't get locked into it, and if they switch into a Draco Meteor you don't have the SpAtk drop.
That said, the two sets that stand out are:

Bulky HydraRest
Goodra @ Life Orb/Leftovers/Expert Belt
Nature: Modest
Ability: Hydration
252 HP/252 SpAtk/4 Speed (Maybe some experimenting with the speed EVs is needed)
- Rain Dance
- Rest
- Hydro Pump
- Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor
Basically just take hits like a champ, hit back, and when you get low, Rest. It's set apart from other Rest abusers because of Hydration. Vaporeon could actually run something similar to the same effect, actually hitting harder with Hydro Pump at the cost of 15 base speed, though, so it's usefulness is questionable. It's not necessarily outclassed, though, as it has better coverage even though it gets walled to hell and back by Ferrothorn.

Mixed Wall
Goodra @ Leftovers
Nature: Bold
Ability: Gooey
252 HP/252 Def/4 SpDef
- Toxic
- Protect
- Dragon Pulse
- Fire Blast/Sludge Bomb/Substitute/Infestation(?)
Mixed wall set over special wall set because special wall set is outclassed by a few other Pokemon. Being able to take physical hits synergizes nicely with Gooey, and Toxic + Protect always have enough utility to not be totally useless.
Mixed walls are pretty rare, but Dragon is actually a pretty nice typing for this since offensive Fairies should be hard to come by. Ice and Dragon type moves are your primary concern, but those are pretty rare since most ice moves were Hidden Power, which is going to be much less popular now, and only Dragon type Pokemon generally use Dragon type moves, so you should see those coming a mile away.
Of course, it still lacks tankiness for a mixed wall, but it makes up for this with two factors: the Gooey ability, which gives it some great utility in several situations as well as being useful overall, and his 110 base SpAtk. Toxic + Protect is a classic combo that you can't really go wrong with on a wall, Dragon Pulse is good damage and has STAB, and Fire Blast gives great coverage. Sludge Bomb is an alternative, letting you hit Fairies hard, but you'll be walled by every steel type ever. Substitute contributes to the stall nicely, while Infestation is more of a gimmicky move to trap them into the Toxic stall. I personally don't see that working ever, but it's a funny enough idea to include.
Wish support is highly recommended for this set.

 

[Kadabrium]

Goodra learns Focus Blast so it isnt necessarily walled by ferro. Only a problem of what coverage the team needs the most

 

[Dodododuo]

So far I really think Goodra's best tactic is more of a stall trapper than an attacker, of course this is just my opinion but infestation, toxic, rest, and rain dance is my favorite moveset so far

 

[Agent Gibbs]

I'm kinda wanting to try out something along these lines. There's probably a better EV spread, but this one is a preliminary spread for a special tank Goodra.

Goodra @ Leftovers / Assault Vest
Trait: Hydration / Gooey
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
-Draco Meteor
-Muddy Water (or Hydro Pump if it's confirmed)
-Fire Blast
-Rest / Sludge Bomb

Man, this thing would have been so much better back in BW when Drizzle was still permanent. Even now, though, having just a few turns of Rain should still be enough to nab a Rest now and then. It's going to be a lot harder for weather-dependent setup sweepers to do their jobs now, but Goodra will only need one turn to heal up, which probably won't be that hard to find room for. As a bonus, it synergizes extremely well with Politoed, taking any special Grass- and Electric-type attacks aimed at Politoed with ease. Once it's in, Draco Meteor/Fire Blast/Muddy Water (or Hydro Pump) will do plenty of damage coming off a sturdy base 110 SpA stat (going from the Serebii page). With 90/150 special bulk, Goodra just laughs at many special attacks, especially if it's holding the Assault Vest. To give an idea of how stupidly bulky this thing is on the special side, a Draco Meteor from Choice Specs Latios, one of the most feared special attacks in OU, maxes out at 98.95% against an Assault Vest Goodra with the given EV spread. While it might miss the Leftovers recovery, that amount of special bulk is nothing short of amazing. In the event that you use Assault Vest, you'll have to give up Rest, and so Sludge Bomb will give Goodra a better weapon for opposing Fairies. Hydration can still be used to heal Scald burns and such, but Gooey would probably be preferred due to its general usefulness.

 

[vBlue]

Looking at Infestation / Rain Dance / Rest / Toxic Goodra, I can say that the "One True Goomy" crowd may have made the right choice after all. Toxic + Infestation will kill anything in 4 turns with Binding and you have to be able to 2HKO through maxed defenses and its huge SpD or it can keep pressure while healing to full.

 

[Typhlito]

problem with that set is that all it can do against steel types is infestation so scizor can set up in its face all day long

 

[Jazzy]

problem with that set is that all it can do against steel types is infestation so scizor can set up in its face all day long

I mean you have 10 turns to pull this off, maybe rain can be on someone else so you can run Earthquake?

 

[Typhlito]

since rain is temporary, maybe fire blast is better. would still do a good amount to scizor even under rain.

 

[Mathius]

Looking at Infestation / Rain Dance / Rest / Toxic Goodra, I can say that the "One True Goomy" crowd may have made the right choice after all. Toxic + Infestation will kill anything in 4 turns with Binding and you have to be able to 2HKO through maxed defenses and its huge SpD or it can keep pressure while healing to full.

I love that set and think it looks like a lot of fun, I'm thinking of using dragon pulse instead of toxic for last moveslot. I think it could be just as effective in helping the damage output and to me at least feels like a better option in general ( I know it doesn't hit fairy, but in general I think I would not want Goodra sticking around against a fairy). My only debate is whether to max it's physical def (obv full HP invest) or make his Sdef absolutely unbreachable. Improving his mixed defence sounds better, but in an actual team fight I'm thinking about using M-aggron whose def and typing basically makes Goodra hanging around against physical attackers pointless.

Noob question: does infestation's trap effect remain even if Goodra switches out?

 

[Typhlito]

nope. it doesnt. it might if you find a way to baton pass tho. btw, another hard counter to that infestation set is goodra itself since it would only cancel out leftovers and it can rest off the damage. Plus hydration makes toxic not work on it. Both goodras would just be stuck on the field cuz of infestation until they run out of rest which wold prob take 30+ turns at the minimum.

 

[Mathius]

nope. it doesnt. it might if you find a way to baton pass tho. btw, another hard counter to that infestation set is goodra itself since it would only cancel out leftovers and it can rest off the damage. Plus hydration makes toxic not work on it. Both goodras would just be stuck on the field cuz of infestation until they run out of rest which wold prob take 30+ turns at the minimum.

Thx for that, thought the trap effect would have been OP if it persisted, kind of makes me lean toward maxing defence since the set is more solo than otherwise. And in regards to the counter, this is true, but isn't leftovers 1/16? Infest trap effect is 1/8 (all trap type moves got boosted this gen). Anyway that's why I'm thinking dragon pulse, even with goodras Sdef it's going to do a fair chunk.

 

[Typhlito]

its a tough choice since it has no room in the set. without a fire move, scizor sets up on it. without a dragon move, goodras stall with you and without a poison move, you got nothing on fairies. Its just flawed since theres no way you can cover it all with the set.

 

[Mathius]

Indeed, love the pokemon, and at least atm I enjoy the set, but nothing is perfect. It will never be able to work on everything, just don't think the other sets offer much in the way of uniqueness that couldn't be better filled by others. Not saying that this couldn't be true of this set, but it feels fun, maybe I will change my mind later. But yes, this set suffers from MASSIVE move problems. So sad this didn't come before the weather nerf.

 

[Fundance]

Binding Band has been confirmed to bring the residual damage from Infestation up to 1/6. Considering that goodra in the rain gets to heal itself easily with rest, you could forgo leftovers or whatever for binding band with little risk. With toxic spikes support, you can take anything that isn't a ghost, poison, steel, healer or zangoose down in under 4 turns.

 

[pokelover32]

You guys are missing the most important part of battles and victory: the opponent. The opponent doesn't know you, he can only make inferences on what you can do. And that's what goodra is blessed with: three abilities with equally effective usage. With or without sap sipper no one will risk wasting a turn on helping the opponent with spore. No one will risk using physical attacks at the expense of speed loss. And rain teams won't be setting up rain on you either. With goodra, you are making the opponent unsure of what to do, restricting his move set greatly. Add great stats, this thing will become op
(on a side not, speed boost pokemon don't care too much for gooey)

 

[Shadow-XIII]

Using the stats from serebii, with an assault vest:
252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Goodra: 299-354 (92.85 - 109.93%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Salamence Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Goodra: 471-556 (122.65 - 144.79%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Goodra: 229-273 (59.63 - 71.09%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Dragon Pulse vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Goodra: 229-273 (39.32-46.61%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Well, I think it's clear that Goodra has no business fighting any dragon, cause physical ones maul all over it even with full defensive investment and Hydreigon can 3HKO even with assault vest and full specially defensive investment. Too lazy (and too lazy to search for a calculator) to do the calcs for fairies, but chances are it has no business there either.

On the other hand:
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD (custom) in sun: 88-104 (27.41 - 32.39%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Mega Gengar Shadow Ball vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD (custom): 84-99 (26.16 - 30.84%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252 Def (custom): 231-273 (60.15 - 71.09%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Yeah, good luck stopping Goodra with anything that isn't super-effective (or very physically powerful). Definitely OU worthy, just gotta find the right use for it.

 

[Typhlito]

maybe getting rid of toxic from the set and having toxic spikes support instead is better for it since it could use a coverage move cuz I have t say. 1/6 damage per turn plus using infestation again to speed up the damage is pretty cool.

 

[Mattman324]

You guys are missing the most important part of battles and victory: the opponent. The opponent doesn't know you, he can only make inferences on what you can do. And that's what goodra is blessed with: three abilities with equally effective usage. With or without sap sipper no one will risk wasting a turn on helping the opponent with spore. No one will risk using physical attacks at the expense of speed loss. And rain teams won't be setting up rain on you either. With goodra, you are making the opponent unsure of what to do, restricting his move set greatly. Add great stats, this thing will become op
(on a side not, speed boost pokemon don't care too much for gooey)

You do overestimate Sap Sipper. No one will expect it because Goopy and Hydration are simply better in most cases.

 

[Codyksp]

To be honest I have no idea what to do with this guy, his totals are great but spread out so evenly (aside from SpD). He can learn a ton of moves giving him great coverage but he lacks any real strength in either Atk or SpA and has no STAB aside from Dragon which isn't of much use.

Does anyone think he could become some kind of tank with Infestation, Toxic, Rest and maybe Protect? I'd give him something along the lines of 252 HP/252/Def/4 SpD since his special is naturally already high.
Basically just use Toxic and Infestation with Protect to annoy even more and Rest to heal up.

 

[Lol_cakes]

Sometimes I think people see Dragon, and just say, "He has to be a sweeper." Let's see what this guy can do defensively, just the substantial amount of sets he can run can make him a huge threat, one wrong move and this guys can setup some tricky stuff.
Also he gets Ice Beam and Thunderbolt. Kind of cool.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Sometimes I think people see Dragon, and just say, "He has to be a sweeper." Let's see what this guy can do defensively, just the substantial amount of sets he can run can make him a huge threat, one wrong move and this guys can setup some tricky stuff.

Oh, no, I don't think it's not really it. Latias got by without really being a "sweeper."

I guess people are looking at the fact that Goodra's stat distribution is just really odd in particular places that it's difficult to make a set with it without comparing it to another Dragon, or just making it impractical. Its base 70 Defense and 80 Speed, for instance, is are both quite awkward and may leave it vulnerable to many hits unlike Dragonite. If the stat spread is wrong and Goodra really did have 90 Speed, though, I'd use a Choice Specs set on it in a heartbeat.

 

[Lol_cakes]

Oh, no, I don't think it's not really it. Latias got by without really being a "sweeper."

I guess people are looking at the fact that Goodra's stat distribution is just really odd in particular places that it's difficult to make a set with it without comparing it to another Dragon, or just making it impractical. Its base 70 Defense and 80 Speed, for instance, is are both quite awkward and may leave it vulnerable to many hits unlike Dragonite. If the stat spread is wrong and Goodra really did have 90 Speed, though, I'd use a Choice Specs set on it in a heartbeat.

I can see that. I'm a sucker for underdogs though lol. I guess a lot of things can only be compared to the current meta as of know, I'll keep that in mind as we go along.