1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

Gorebyss (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Limewire, Nov 29, 2010.

  1. Limewire

    Limewire PRESS R TO WIN
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    751
    SmashPass!

    [​IMG]

    http://serebii.net/pokedex-bw/368.shtml


    [Overview]

    <p>Do not be fooled by Gorebyss's docile appearance. Access to Shell Smash, one of the best set-up moves in the entire game, makes her quite a threat to deal with, especially in the rain. As if that weren't enough, Gorebyss can also support her team by Baton Passing this boost, turning the reciever into an absolute monster. However, she does have a few flaws, such as low HP, poor Special Defense, and a heavy reliance on White Herb. Nevertheless, Gorebyss is a surprising threat that every team should be prepared for.</p>

    [SET]
    name: SmashPass
    move 1: Shell Smash
    move 2: Baton Pass
    move 3: Surf
    move 4: Substitute / Ice Beam
    item: White Herb
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 24 SpD / 232 Spe

    [Set Comments]

    <p>Gorebyss is one of three Pokemon who can pass a Shell Smash boost to another team member, meaning that you can have a Pokemon with +2 in Attack, Special Attack, and Speed. However, Shell Smash also lowers both defensive stats by 1, and because this makes Gorebyss rely heavily on White Herb, you usually have only one chance of getting it right. Ideally, Gorebyss should be brought in against a Pokemon who can barely threaten her, such as a Starmie locked into Ice Beam. From there, Gorebyss should use Shell Smash, and depending on the situation, use Baton Pass or attack directly. Surf is a powerful and reliable STAB move. Substitute is essential to this set because it protects Gorebyss from status and keeps her healthy. Passing an intact Substitute to a receiver is also a bonus. Alternatively, you may want to use Ice Beam to nail any Grass- or Dragon-type Pokemon who happen to switch in. Ice Beam also allows Gorebyss to deal with phazers such as Roar Latias and Dragon Tail Gyarados.</p>

    [Additional Comments]

    <p>After a boost, 232 Speed EVs allow Gorebyss to outspeed base 130 Pokemon, such as Jolteon and Aerodactyl, even with a positive nature. Maximum HP and 24 Special Defense EVs allow Gorebyss to take hits better, especially as she has a nice base Defense stat. White Herb is a must-have item, as it negates both defense drops caused by Shell Smash. For the fourth slot, if Substitute or Ice Beam is not required, Gorebyss may wish to run Hidden Power Grass or Fire in order to defeat some common checks and counters. Hidden Power Grass ensures that Water-type Pokemon do not wall Gorebyss, and Hidden Power Fire demolishes Ferrothorn and Abomasnow, two common switch-ins.</p>

    <p>Dual screens support is appreciated, as it allows Gorebyss and her receiver to take hits easily. Deoxys-S proudly claims itself to be the fastest Pokemon in the entire game, and should be considered as a teammate to set up the screens. Latios has decent defensive synergy with Gorebyss, and can also use Memento, effectively leaving the foe with -6 Attack and Special Attack with screens set up. If offensively-oriented Pokemon are not desirable, some defensive options include Jirachi, Uxie (who, once again, can use Memento to your team's advantage), and Bronzong. It is recommended to have at least two dual screens users on a team with Shell Smash + Baton Pass Gorebyss, as this makes pulling off the risky SmashPass strategy much easier.</p>

    <p>The recipient of the boost should not be any random Pokemon. There are certain qualities a Pokemon must possess in order to be a good receiver. First, a good receiver should be able to handle priority moves, either by possessing bulk or by being able to use its own priority attacks (or a combination of both). One example of this is Metagross; its Steel / Psychic typing enables it to shrug off many different types of attacks, and it has great bulk. Metagross can also use Bullet Punch, its own priority attack. Another quality the recipient should have is the ability to destroy common walls, such as Ferrothorn, Jellicent, Skarmory, and Blissey. Both Infernape and Landorus are excellent mixed wallbreakers, and can easily destroy walls after a Shell Smash. These two Pokemon can also outspeed a +2 Excadrill after a boost. On a final note, having recipients hold Lum Berry is a good idea, as many Pokemon will attempt to cripple the recipient with status moves in order to prevent them from sweeping.</p>

    <p>Gorebyss loathes priority attacks, even when behind screens. For example, Conkeldurr, running a specially defensive spread, can set up on her as she uses Shell Smash and deal heavy damage with Drain Punch + Mach Punch. A strong special attacker, such as Calm Mind Reuniclus, can easily defeat the aforementioned menace. Pokemon with the ability Prankster, such as Thundurus, Tornadus, and Whimsicott, are also problems, as they can Taunt Gorebyss before she sets up or cripple her with status moves. Magic Bounce Espeon and Xatu can easily counter these threats by reflecting their attacks back at them, and on top of that, set up dual screens. Phazers also pose a problem, as they can force Gorebyss out, removing the Shell Smash boost. Calm Mind + Roar Latias, a common phazer, can be brought down by very powerful physical attacks, such as repeated Crunches from Choice Band Tyranitar. RestTalk Gyarados, another common phazer, is easily dented by Electric-type attacks, such as those from Rotom-W.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Shell Smash Sweeper
    move 1: Shell Smash
    move 2: Surf
    move 3: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Ice Beam
    item: Life Orb / Lum Berry
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Modest
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [Set Comments]

    <p>With a single Shell Smash, Gorebyss obtains a +2 boost for its Attack, Special Attack, and Speed stats, making it a formidable threat. The ability to double its offensive stats makes it a great sweeper in rain (although rain is not required). However, Shell Smash also comes at the cost of lowering both of Gorebyss's defenses by one stage, making her vulnerable to priority. For these reasons, Gorebyss is best used as a late-game sweeper, when all dangerous threats have been taken care of.</p>

    <p>After a Shell Smash boost, Surf can easily OHKO or 2HKO the majority of Pokemon who do not resist the attack. The other attacks are for coverage. Hidden Power Grass hits Jellicent, Gastrodon, Quagsire and other Pokemon immune to Water-type attacks, who could easily wall this set. Hidden Power Fire, on the other hand, enables Gorebyss to hit Ferrothorn and Abomasnow, two common switch-ins. As a small note, do not shy away from using Hidden Power Fire if Gorebyss is used on a rain team, because the attack will still be super effective against the two aforementioned threats. Ice Beam allows Gorebyss to punish phazers such as Roar Latias and Dragon Tail Salamence. The move also hits Grass-type Pokemon if Hidden Power Grass is selected.</p>

    [Additional Comments]

    <p>The EVs for this set are straightforward. 252 Speed EVs enable Gorebyss to outspeed Pokemon with a base Speed of 150, even with a Speed-boosting nature, after a Shell Smash. This includes every non-boosted Pokemon in rain. Meanwhile, maximum Special Attack, combined with a Modest nature, allows Gorebyss to hit hard. An alternative spread of 224 HP / 252 SpA / 32 Spe can be used for some more bulk. It may seem odd that Surf is listed on this set instead of Hydro Pump. However, given Hydro Pump's shaky 80% accuracy, as well as the defense drops provided by Shell Smash, it is best to play it safe with Surf. Life Orb gives Gorebyss raw power; however, Pokemon who aren't immediately OHKOed by Gorebyss, such as Chansey, can switch in and cripple her with status. For this reason, Lum Berry is a potential alternative.</p>

    <p>If used on a rain team, two to three Pokemon who can manually summon rain are required, as Gorebyss's ability prevents running Politoed alongside it. Good candidates who can get this job done easily are Jirachi, Bronzong, Magnezone, Thundurus and Tornadus (whose Prankster abilities gives Rain Dance a +1 priority), Zapdos, and Scizor. Jirachi and Scizor can also easily beat Tyranitar and Abomasnow, two major threats to rain teams. Thunder Wave support is appreciated, as Gorebyss is still in danger of being outsped by Pokemon wielding a Choice Scarf. Celebi and Jirachi are good options to provide this, as they also have good defensive synergy with Gorebyss. Speaking of synergy, it is wise to pair Gorebyss with Grass-type Pokemon who resist her weaknesses to Electric- and Grass-type moves. Ferrothorn can lay down entry hazards, threaten opposing bulky Water-types with Power Whip, and support Gorebyss with Leech Seed.</p>

    <p>Priority users are a huge threat to Gorebyss. Scizor and Conkeldurr, for example, can easily take down a weakened Gorebyss after she suffers Life Orb recoil and possible entry hazard damage. Gliscor can take out Conkeldurr and survive Scizor's assaults. As a bonus, it can easily switch into Electric-type attacks aimed at Gorebyss. Prankster Pokemon can cripple Gorebyss with their priority Taunt and status moves. Luckily, Scizor can take on these menaces with Bullet Punch. Opposing Water-types can be a problem if Gorebyss does not choose to run Hidden Power Grass. Quagsire, Vaporeon, and Jellicient in particular can easily wall her. A Grass-type of your own, such as Virizion or Ferrothorn, can set up on these Pokemon.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Gorebyss does not have too many alternate options. She can use Psychic and Shadow Ball, but a STAB, and often rain-boosted, Surf will usually deal more damage. Confuse Ray is always a fun option, but Gorebyss is usually strapped for moves. Hydro Pump may be used for raw power, but it is extremely risky considering the defense drops caused by Shell Smash. Gorebyss has several other options she can pass along with or in place of Shell Smash, such as Aqua Ring, Agility, Iron Defense, and Amnesia. Amnesia deserves a special mention, as it patches up Gorebyss's less-than-average Special Defense stat. Finally, Gorebyss can manually summon rain on rain teams, but there are other Pokemon who can do this more easily thanks to their higher defense stats.</p>


    [Checks & Counters]

    <p>Although rain support is not required for any Gorebyss attempting to use Shell Smash for sweeping, removing it makes taking her down much easier. Ninetales can easily switch in and not even flinch with her stellar 100 base Special Defense, not to mention her neutrality to Water-type attacks due to Drought, and threaten Gorebyss with either Energy Ball or SolarBeam. Abomasnow has to be wary of Hidden Power Fire, but it easily can smash Gorebyss with its STAB Wood Hammer. Tyranitar absolutely hates Surf, but can easily prey on Gorebyss's -1 defensive stats. Hippowdon should avoid switching into Gorebyss altogether, but can come in on a less threatening Pokemon and remove the rain.</p>

    <p>Gorebyss will always have a perfect counter, depending on which Hidden Power she chooses to run. If Hidden Power Grass is chosen, then Ferrothorn can easily switch in and proceed to set up Spikes, Thunder Wave her (or, if Gorebyss is running the Baton Pass set, Thunder Wave the reciever), or outright attack with Power Whip. If running Hidden Power Fire, Pokemon who are immune to Water-type attacks, such as Gastrodon and Vaporeon, can wall her. Speaking of walling, Blissey and Eviolite Chansey can sponge Gorebyss's attacks and cripple her with Thunder Wave or Toxic. However, great care must be taken if Gorebyss is on a rain team, as a +2 Life Orb and rain-boosted Surf can 2HKO Chansey after Stealth Rock damage. Pokemon with the Prankster ability, such as Whimsicott and Thundurus, can also cripple Gorebyss with their priority status attacks or prevent her from using Shell Smash with Taunt.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Gorebyss's Dream World ability is Hydration, curing her of status effects in rain. This is very useful in conjunction with Drizzle Politoed, since she can bypass the Drizzle + Swift Swim combination ban. However, the loss of Speed may be noticeable, so more team support may be needed.</p>
  2. Darkmalice

    Darkmalice Like a facepalm, but better
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,494
    HP Electric should always be written as Hidden Power Electric.

    For the first set, Hidden Power Grass deserves a slash for Water/Ground types, such as Swampert, Gamageroge and Water Absorb Quagsire. It also hits Omastar and Kabutops harder than Surf (HP Electric doesn't), and I haven't seen many Gyarados. It could even warrant the main slash.

    32 Spe EVs should be part of the main EV allocation for the first set. The loss in durability is negligible compared to the ability to outrun Kingdra and Qwilfish in rain, especially given that rain teams are fairly common with DW Politoed released.

    What does HP Ground do to Nattorei? It hits neutral. Even Surf does more damage. HP Ground doesn't deserve a mention anywhere.
  3. Limewire

    Limewire PRESS R TO WIN
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    751
    My mistake, I believed that HP Ground was super-effective against Nattorei. All of your other reccomendations were edited in. Thanks!
  4. NightShadow

    NightShadow

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2010
    Messages:
    246
    IMO, Surf should be the primary slash. With those decreased defenses, one miss with Hydro Pump would probably and most likely result in the death of another Gorebyss. Surf also 2HKOs Blissey, so I don't see why it should have any issues with any other special walls.
  5. Limewire

    Limewire PRESS R TO WIN
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    751
    Done. In fact, should I just remove Hydro Pump and put it in AC? The only reason I can think of using Hydro Pump is hitting Nattorei harder (does 70 to 80ish to 252 HP / 252 SpD Sassy Nattorei).
  6. Aleva

    Aleva

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    273
    For Shell Break Passing, slash Focus Sash as the item, it works well.
  7. Calm Pokemaster

    Calm Pokemaster
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,687
    Focus Sash might work out well, but I suggest giving White Herb a slash on the set itself, since priority is rampant in the current metagame.

    Fix your formatting for the AC on the Baton Pass set.

    This is a neat analysis otherwise. Remember to convert your comments to paragraph form too. Good luck with your QC checks.
  8. Limewire

    Limewire PRESS R TO WIN
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    751
    *facepalm* I can't believe I forgot White Herb. I believe it should be the primary option over Leftovers. Focus Sash might work as a lead or with Rapid Spin support.
  9. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,147
    Safeguard should get a mention on the Shell Break Pass set. It somewhat makes up for the lack of taunt and nearly guarantees your teammate can get in safely. Boil Over is pointless on the Baton Pass set. You want Surf which provides you with noticeably more power. Boil Over is really only useful on defensive sets.
  10. umbarsc

    umbarsc

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2007
    Messages:
    1,998
    Huntail + Smeargle.
  11. Limewire

    Limewire PRESS R TO WIN
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    751
    Whoops.

    Safeguard, huh? Interesting. I'll add that in. I still think Boil Over has some uses on the Baton Pass set, because it can burn Pokemon who carry a physical priority move. With that said, I'll slash in Surf on the set.
  12. PartyPopsicle

    PartyPopsicle

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    Messages:
    2
    The shell break pass set has worked for me without any support from other baton passers with this:

    Gorebyss
    move 1: Shell Break
    move 2: Baton Pass
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Surf
    item: White Herb
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 24 SpD / 232 Spe

    Set up on a wall, especially burungeru - substitute as they toxic and then shell break and pass to sub+3 attacks shaymin-s; it sweeps quite often.... so i think that for teammates, shaymin-s is a great baton pass recipient because its speed makes it hard to revenge, and coverage works well. As a note, the gorebyss/shaymin-s combination works extremely well against RD teams.

    Edit: i use it in the lead position a lot of the time and it can set up quite often, even on nattorei (who just SR and set up spikes for some reason....
  13. ParaChomp

    ParaChomp

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2010
    Messages:
    596
    If any of us do a Huntail analysis, could we use what you have here as the base?
  14. TorchicBlaziken

    TorchicBlaziken

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,368
    No because the What Aren't We Writing About thread has Huntail on the list, so you can't do a Huntail analysis.
  15. Limewire

    Limewire PRESS R TO WIN
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    751
    Interesting EV spread. I like it. I'll replace this over my old spread.

    Like TorchicBlaziken said, Huntail is currently not being written for OU. However, when UU analysis are being written, feel free to use this as a base for Huntail.
  16. Limewire

    Limewire PRESS R TO WIN
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    751
    Bumping this because the Swift Swim + Drizzle combo has been banned. I've updated the rain sweeper set, although it may not be usable in OU anymore. Please tell me what you think of it.
  17. zdrup15

    zdrup15
    is a Battle Server Moderatoris a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,775
    The Teammates & Counters section isn't supposed to exist. You have to talk about those things but in the [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
  18. Limewire

    Limewire PRESS R TO WIN
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    751
    My bad. Fixed.

    I'm also going to replace the Japanese names of B/W Pokemon with their English names on all of my analyses ASAP.
  19. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,147
    Ok lets see here...

    What exactly is the point of running Hidden Power Electric over Hidden Power Grass? Gyarados is a non-issue here because it is absolutely mauled by +2 Surf (252/0 varients take 76.4% - 90.1% and offensive varients are KOed) Both moves practically have the same coverage, but with HP electric you lose out against Swampert and Quagsire. Quagsire in particular doesn't really mind Ice Beam due to his unaware ability. You should definitely make Hidden Power Grass the main slash and remove Hidden Power Electric altogether. Finally, with passing of Aldaron's proposal the Rain set should be the last set (its not really viable due to having to rely on Rain Dance to sweep) You should consider renaming it to Shell Break sweeper.

    The set should like this:
    name: Shell Break Sweeper
    move 1: Shell Break
    move 2: Surf
    move 3: Hidden Power Grass
    move 4: Ice Beam
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Modest
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    The Baton Pass needs an EV tweak. Speed EV's are absolutely unnecessary because Shell Break is boosting your speed anyway and you're not trying to sweep. I'm a bit undecided on the 3rd slot. I'm mulling over the idea of suggesting HP fire, but i'll take it over with other QC members. Finally, Boil Over is absolutely useless, so you should remove that.

    Do that and you can considered this stamped.
  20. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,620
    Well, since Tentacruel's been approved, just a few words.

    Please mention that on the Baton Pass that the Shell Break boosts need to be pointed to a recipient with good coverage and well-off defenses (in terms of literal defenses and typing). I've seen and experienced situations where most Baton Pass recipients won't cut it because they can't hit a specific wall for great damage (stupid things like Jellicent and Nattorei), or are very susceptible to priority and Doryuuzu.

    I would recommend that the recipient can hold its own against priority like Aqua Jet and Bullet Punch and can take bulky Pokemon out immediately with coverage. Second of all, I know this is extremely nitpicky, but a good traits to outspeed Doryuuzu in Sandstorm so it's not easily revenge killed.

    EDIT: For good measure, you can Baton Pass to a purely physical or specially-based recipient. Mixed recipients are probably the best for taking advantage for both the attack boosts. Personally, wallbreaker Voltolos or Landuros does it for me.
  21. Limewire

    Limewire PRESS R TO WIN
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    751
    Alright, fixed. The current EVs I have for the Baton Pass set allows Gorebyss to survive a Tbolt from +1 Timid Starmie after SR, meaning it can survive pretty much any special attack bar those that come from Gengar and Lati@s.

    In addition, I gave HP Grass the primary slash over HP Fire. IMO, HP Fire only hits Nattorei (and Foretress, but no one uses him much these days) for significant damage whereas HP Grass can cover more threats.

    I've mentioned wallbreaking Infernape and Landuros as example recipients who can destroy most walls AND outspeed +2 Excadrill, and Metagross as an example who has great bulk, laughs at priority and can still dent walls.

    I can't quite think of a Pokemon who can do all four of those traits, though.
  22. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 10 Champion

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,239
    Slash in Hidden Power Fire on the first set since it OHKOs Abomasnow and Nattorei who otherwise wall this set (but note that you lose the ability to hit most Water-types (although most Water-types besides Burunguru and Vaporeon take a lot from +2 Surf anyway)). Also note that HP Fire means you have to run a Speed IV of 30. Nice work!

    QC Approved (2/3)
  23. Limewire

    Limewire PRESS R TO WIN
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    751
    Mention. Thank you :)
  24. Bad Ass

    Bad Ass judy never felt so good except when she was sleeping...
    is a Tiering Contributoris a GS2 Winneris a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,293
    Shell Break passer hits 280 speed after a Shell Break.

    -_-

    Gorebyss (M) @ White Herb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 HP / 24 SDef / 232 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)

    Give enough speed to beat +130s and plenty of bulk, especially when supported by 110 defense and all of that Special Defense investment.

    3/3 Approved
  25. Eo Ut Mortus

    Eo Ut Mortus Elodin Smells
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    3,533
    Ice Beam should be mentioned as an option on the BP set, seeing as it hits Roar Latias / Dragon Tail Salamence, who will otherwise just phaze you out. I would say these Pokemon are more problematic than Quagsire and therefore
    recommend that you slash it before the two Hidden Powers.

    Also nitpick on that same set: Surf should be in the third slot and the coverage moves in the fourth, since moves are ranked by importance.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)