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Gorebyss (QC 11/3) (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Zebraiken, Dec 19, 2011.

  1. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken what's important
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    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Gorebyss

    qc'd: ...far too many people
    gp'd: sirndpt, Stalfos

    [Overview]

    <p>A terror even to OU, Gorebyss somehow found her way down to the depths of NU, where her very presence is almost a death sentence to unprepared teams. Although she was prominent as a Rain Dance sweeper in DPP UU, BW gave her a tool that surpassed all others: Shell Smash. With doubled Special Attack and Speed in one turn, Gorebyss can devastate unprepared teams at a moment's notice. Additionally, Gorebyss has excellent coverage in three moves, shredding through the bulky Water- and Grass-types that would otherwise resist her STAB moves. Her Defense stat is high enough that with White Herb, she survives even Life Orb Absol's Sucker Punch, the strongest available priority move in the tier. Rain Dance only bolsters her power even more, as Swift Swim doubles her Speed and the rain provides an additional boost to her STAB attacks.</p>

    <p>On paper, very few Pokemon are able to stand up to her onslaught, and as Lanturn and Slowking moved up to RU, her last remaining counters were gone. Regardless of the lack of counters, however, the NU metagame has molded itself around Gorebyss. Many checks have emerged, ranging from fast Choice Scarf users such as Rotom-S and Jynx, to enormously bulky special walls such as Lickilicky, to priority from the likes of Absol. The metagame has made it very difficult for Gorebyss to set up, as well; many teams are built to status Gorebyss as soon as possible, or pack a super effective move on nearly every Pokemon. Her checks have become omnipresent, with many teams even using several of them. With so many obstacles to her success, Gorebyss needs to have plenty of support to be effective in every match.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Shell Smash
    move 1: Shell Smash
    move 2: Surf / Hydro Pump
    move 3: Hidden Power Grass
    move 4: Ice Beam
    item: Life Orb / White Herb
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set showcases Gorebyss's sweeping potential and amazing coverage, hitting the entirety of NU for at least neutral damage, with the exception of Shedinja. Shell Smash is the cornerstone of every Gorebyss set, as the +2 Special Attack and Speed boosts are invaluable. The use of this set is fairly self-explanatory: find something to set up on, such as Lairon or Regirock, boost up, and proceed to sweep. Surf is the best STAB option, as it's reliable and powerful, but Hydro Pump can be used in its place for incredible power. With a +2 Life Orb Hydro Pump, Gorebyss will knock even dedicated special walls on their haunches—when coupled with a Modest nature, Gorebyss will always OHKO specially defensive Lickilicky after Stealth Rock damage. Ice Beam nails bulky Grass-types, such as Amoonguss, Vileplume, and Exeggutor, as well as Dragon-types, such as Dragonair and Altaria. On the other hand, Hidden Power Grass provides coverage on the bulky Water-types that resist both Surf and Ice Beam.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Life Orb is the primary option, as it adds a much-appreciated boost to all of Gorebyss's attacks, while White Herb can be used to remedy the defensive stat drops from Shell Smash. It's also worth noting that Absol can only OHKO -1 Gorebyss with Sucker Punch, so by using White Herb, you can be rest assured that Absol won't be ruining Gorebyss's sweep. Timid is the preferred nature, as it lets Gorebyss outspeed up to +1 base 85 Speed Pokemon, such as Choice Scarf Sawk and Choice Scarf Pinsir. Modest can be used for much more power, but outrunning common Choice Scarf users is generally preferable. When using a Modest nature, a spread of 48 HP / 252 SpA / 208 Spe allows Gorebyss to outpace Swellow at +2 and gives her some bulk. Hidden Power Rock hits Mantine and Jynx harder than any other move that Gorebyss can use, but the coverage that Hidden Power Grass provides is much more valuable; in addition, Jynx has a chance of being OHKOed by Hidden Power Grass after Stealth Rock damage anyway.</p>

    <p>Swellow and Braviary make for excellent offensive partners with Gorebyss, as they lure Rock-types such as Golem and Regirock only to U-turn out of them, giving Gorebyss a free switch-in. From there, Gorebyss can either OHKO said Rock-type and clear the way for a Swellow or Braviary sweep, or proceed to sweep on her own with Shell Smash. Bulky Ground-types such as Golem and Camerupt are very useful teammates, as they handle Gorebyss's most common revenge killer, Rotom-S, with ease. Both can set up Stealth Rock as well, limiting the lifespan of opposing Rotom-S and Jynx.</p>

    <p>Although Gorebyss can break through dedicated special walls on her own, physical sweepers should definitely be considered to eliminate Lickilicky, Hypno, and other bulky Pokemon that can withstand a hit or two from Gorebyss. Absol, Sawk, and Gurdurr are some of the best available options, and the latter two can help deal with opposing Absol, who can end Gorebyss's sweep with Sucker Punch. Teammates with Rain Dance are much appreciated, as the rain will strengthen Gorebyss's Surf immensely and allows Gorebyss to outpace Rotom-S and other revenge killers after a Shell Smash. Rotom-S is a great partner in this aspect, as it can also take advantage of rain with STAB Thunder, and it will lure Ground-types, such as Camerupt and Golem, for Gorebyss to easily set up on.</p>

    [SET]
    name: SubSmash
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Shell Smash
    move 3: Surf
    move 4: Ice Beam / Hidden Power Grass
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Modest
    evs: 48 HP / 252 SpA / 208 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Although giving up a coverage move drastically cuts her effectiveness, the inclusion of Substitute benefits Gorebyss greatly. Occasionally, a Pokemon that Gorebyss usually forces out will attempt to stay in to prevent Gorebyss from getting a clean sweep. For example, many Regirock run Thunder Wave, which will cut Gorebyss's Speed and crush any hopes of achieving a clean sweep. Likewise, Golem might stay in and use Earthquake on a predicted Shell Smash, then use Sucker Punch for the 2HKO. Substitute allows Gorebyss to assess the situation and respond appropriately, rather than guess what the opponent will do and possibly mispredict. Gorebyss can handle her usual switch-ins behind a Substitute as well; Rotom-S, for example, is OHKOed by unboosted Ice Beam even before Stealth Rock damage. Substitute also prevents status, meaning that if Regirock were to use Thunder Wave, Gorebyss will escape untouched and with a Substitute intact.</p>

    <p>Surf provides STAB and is generally a much better option than Hydro Pump, as Gorebyss cannot afford to miss, or her Substitute will be wasted. The choice between coverage moves is a difficult one, but Ice Beam is usually the preferred choice because of the numerous Grass-types in the tier, as well as Altaria and Rotom-S, all of whom would soundly defeat any Gorebyss lacking Ice Beam. On the other hand, Hidden Power Grass has several advantages of its own, namely defeating bulky Water-types such as Alomomola and Lapras and being Gorebyss's strongest option against Jynx.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Gorebyss can afford to use a Modest nature in conjunction with Substitute, as the bolstered power is much more appreciated to dispatch of her usual checks. This set isn't focused on getting a Shell Smash and outright sweeping, either; it's much more inclined towards simply setting up a Substitute and picking off the opposing team, so the Speed boost from Timid has minimal use anyway. The given EV spread and nature lets +2 Gorebyss outpace Swellow, and also spares her a little bulk as well. Although White Herb and Life Orb are very useful items in their own right, they have limited use on this set, as Gorebyss will frequently be switching, thus making White Herb ineffective, and the Life Orb recoil compounds the health lost making Substitutes, meaning Gorebyss will have a very limited lifespan.</p>

    <p>Teammates that lure Rock- and Ground-types, such as Swellow, Tauros, and Magmortar, are by far the best teammates for this set. With timely double switching or the use of U-turn, Gorebyss can enter the fray untouched and facing the likes of Regirock and Camerupt, giving her a free turn with which to set up a Substitute and decimate the opposing team. Paralysis support is much appreciated, creating many more opportunities for Gorebyss to freely set up Substitutes and potentially sweep late in the match. Mesprit and Rotom-S are two of the best paralysis-spreading options; the former can set up Stealth Rock and aid Gorebyss's ability to beat Jynx, while Rotom-S will lure Camerupt and Golem for Gorebyss to switch in on. Teammates who can bust through Lickilicky are necessary, as it walls Gorebyss and easily breaks her Substitutes with Return. Absol, Braviary, and other physical attackers can break down Lickilicky, and many will appreciate Gorebyss's ability to eliminate Rock- and Ground-types.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Outside of Shell Smash, Gorebyss doesn't have very many options. Baton Pass and Shell Smash are illegal together in NU, so Gorebyss is left with Agility, Amnesia, and Iron Defense, all of which are fairly mediocre options in comparison. Psychic and Shadow Ball are among Gorebyss's strongest moves, but Ice Beam and Hidden Power Grass give much better coverage. Gorebyss can use Rain Dance on her own, but a Shell Smash set with Rain Dance support from her teammates is infinitely better, and can often mean instant doom if Gorebyss can get a Shell Smash under rain. A defensive set with Rest and Hydration might seem viable, but without an auto-rain inducer, it puts heavy pressure on you to maintain Rain Dance, and generally isn't effective. Scald's burn rate is nice, but the incredible power of Surf and Hydro Pump is nearly always more useful. Toxic can be used on some of Gorebyss's common switch-ins, such as Lickilicky and Jynx, but Gorebyss generally will be better off attacking them with the appropriate moves.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>While no single Pokemon fully counters the mighty Gorebyss, many stand out as checks, and it's wise to carry at least one in a team, if not more. Jynx absorbs Water-type moves with Dry Skin, and can take even a +2 Hidden Power Grass at full health and OHKO back with Psychic. Lickilicky can tank her attacks and hit back hard with Return or threaten to OHKO with Power Whip. Specially defensive Throh will be able to take a boosted Surf and Circle Throw her boosts away, forcing her to take entry hazard damage upon return. Absol can KO a Life Orb variant with Sucker Punch, although it must beware of Substitute Gorebyss as well as White Herb variants. Regice can live through even a +2 Hydro Pump and will OHKO with Thunderbolt.</p>

    <p>Choice Scarf Rotom-S outspeeds even +2 Timid Gorebyss and can OHKO her with Volt Switch. In general, fast Choice Scarf users such as Raichu and Electabuzz will be able to revenge kill Gorebyss, even after a boost. Finally, one can prey on the imperfect coverage of the Substitute sets: Samurott and Quagsire give trouble to non-Hidden Power Grass variants, while bulky Grass-types such as Amoonguss and Vileplume will defeat any Gorebyss lacking Ice Beam. Preventing Gorebyss from setting up is the best way to handle her, by bombarding her with attacks or by anticipating her entrance into the battle and switching appropriately.</p>
  2. Omicron

    Omicron
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    Mention a bulkier EV spread in the AC (i.e. HP investment), and deslash Hydro Pump. I don't think the accuracy / low PP is worth the power. Surf does plenty of damage already, and Hydro Pump is too unreliable for my tastes.

    After that, you can consider this QC APPROVED (1/3)

    too bad Gorebyss is probably moving up a few tiers...
  3. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

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    Yeah, as far as a bulkier spread goes, if you're Modest you should probably drop down to 68 HP / 252 SpA / 188 Spe. That outruns Swellow. You don't really want to be slower than that. Mention it in AC.

    Hydro Pump is worth a slash if there are specific important KOs it achieves (this might be more relevant with White Herb).

    Otherwise, approved.

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  4. Hot N Cold

    Hot N Cold PLUTO
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    A other options, i think that set with: Rain Dance, Shell Smash, Surf/Hydro Pump and Ice Beam/ HP grass need mention especially for rains teams. This set i think that is utility and rare set but effective.
  5. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken what's important
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    All changes made.
  6. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown in other words...
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    Mantine is a counter if gorebyss is not using hp electric (then is stopped by quaggy)
    How regice takes hits from gorebyss? I don't wanna calculate it now, but probably very invested ones can take one or two hits (the problem is that regice usually don't carry ev's in sdef)
  7. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken what's important
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    | 148 | Mantine | 151 | 0.834% | 128 | 0.830% |

    Mantine is a niche counter and never used even by NU standards. Regice is better and can actually do something back to it via Thunderbolt, so added.

    also, partially since we're allowed but mostly because i want to do it once, stamping this. :) do comment if there's anything else i need to mention though

    [​IMG]

    QC APPROVED (3/3)
  8. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
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    You can stamp your own analysis?

    Anyway, I wouldn't underestimate Gorebyss' ability to pass. Since everyone expects Shell Smash, Gorebyss adds some surprise if its a BPer. (I've actually been very tempted to make a bp team revolving around Clampearl utilizing Gorebyss, but that seems more gimmicky than anything)
  9. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken what's important
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    If I can't then tennis lied to me.

    I'm just estimating the usability of BP in NU in general. I mean, consider that one of the ways people deal with Gorebyss in the first place is through phazing (for example whenever Gore would come in on Camerupt I had to chance that it was going to Surf and KO Camerupt to Roar, or else it'd wreck my team). And it's not like Gorebyss gets any super important moves to pass that don't require an entire BP chain anyway.
  10. Omicron

    Omicron
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    lol i'll stamp just in case

    QC APPROVED (4/3)
  11. tennisace

    tennisace
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    i'll stamp this too if we're not following stamping rules

    [​IMG]
  12. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

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    I was worried no-one saw my first stamp so:
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  13. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken what's important
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    i think this is set on stamps guys
  14. Oglemi

    Oglemi We broke it. Yes, we were naughty. Completely naughty.
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    [​IMG]

    am i cool yet? :3
  15. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken what's important
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    hello this is updated!! i need qc to check it over again because it's a full update etc though (gimme those ten stamps)

    also @ those who do not read it entirely from top to bottom: what do you think of rain dance + shell smash as a set?
  16. blarajan

    blarajan i was born under the same star as shakeitup
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    That set seems like you're trying to accomplish too much with such a frail Pokemon.
  17. Omicron

    Omicron
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    I think Hidden Power Rock is a good alternative for a coverage move on the SubSmash set, it still hits Flying-types hard, but it hits Ice-types as well. Food for thought?

    Also gimme credit for subsmash bee-otch >:[

    xD
  18. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken what's important
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    hmm okay thanks! for all i know right now it will just stay in OO but yeah, just want a few opinions to confirm that

    hm.. i might mention hp rock in AC if only for cryogonal (and... mantine?). oh and jynx! that might make it better hmmmm.. that'd also help it lure and beat jynx which is cute, except that i just did calcs and it only does 58.6 - 69.59% to jynx and 26.16 - 31.39% to 252/252 cryo which also sucks. i think it should just be in AC for now

    pfft you do not deserve credit

    also sorry for my stream of consciousness posts that i'm too lazy to edit to a more legible form
  19. Steamroll

    Steamroll resident zombie
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    Blara has it right, too much for her to do at once. And those logs on Jynx just proved that SubSmash Gore in rain isn't going to be "huge" like Chaotica overhypes, like every other time 9.9.

    I am perfectly fine outside of the SmashDance, please please please don't include it...
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    QC 8/3
  20. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    One of Gorebyss main flaws is trying to set up, because of that, I think in the first set AC there should be a mention of a bulkier spread of 116 HP / 252 SpA / 140 Spe. If you choose to use modest, the spread in the SubSmash set would be better. I agree with Omicron that HP Rock should be mentioned in AC of second set.

    Also, Musharna should be added to checks and counters;

    252SpAtk White Herb +2 Gorebyss (Neutral) Surf vs 252HP/0SpDef Leftovers Musharna (Neutral): 67% - 79% (295 - 348 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    Note that this is only 252 HP EV's Musharna. Also note that +2 LO Hydro Pump hurts.
  21. Steamroll

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    If this is mentioned please also point out mons it doesn't outspeed. She hits 352 at +2 (if I did my math right) compared to 406 with max neu nature investment. This leaves her to be outsped notably by Max + nature Base 112's and higher plus scarfers above base 68 (with max neu nature investment).
  22. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    Actually, at +2 it has 384 Speed, enough to outspeed Jolly Swellow. Remember, this is for Timid Gorebyss.
  23. Steamroll

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    In that case:
    -It speed ties scarf max + nature Base 67's (faxure ++)
    -It is outsped by max neu nature Base 79's (Vanilluxe ++)
  24. tennisace

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    I agree with the above changes.
  25. Steamroll

    Steamroll resident zombie
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    and seriously can we stop hyping this thing? it's showing in our QCing, too. (If it gets more than 2 GPs I'm gonna flip lol).

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