1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Gorebyss (Update) [QC: 3/3] [GP: 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by scorpdestroyer, Sep 4, 2013.

  1. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    2,159
    [​IMG]
    Epitome of overnight popularity

    [Overview]

    <p>Gorebyss's access to Shell Smash makes it a very dangerous setup sweeper that can do well against offensive and defensive teams alike. However while it is powerful, it faces competition from another Shell Smash user, Carracosta, which has a priority move and can set up relatively easily due to its decent bulk. Gorebyss, on the other hand, has trouble finding setup opportunities, especially against offensive teams, because most powerful moves do a lot of damage to it. Gorebyss also suffers from a slight case of four-moveslot syndrome; while its coverage is decent, it cannot cover every defensive threat at the same time. Gorebyss's low Speed leaves it extremely vulnerable to revenge killing even after a boost because almost every common Choice Scarf user can outspeed it at +2 and OHKO. Even after Choice Scarf users are removed, Gorebyss still has to watch out for priority users, which can take it out easily after its defenses are lowered by Shell Smash. The large amount of team support required for Gorebyss to sweep is something that needs to be considered when you are using it.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Shell Smash
    move 1: Shell Smash
    move 2: Surf
    move 3: Signal Beam
    move 4: Substitute / Ice Beam
    item: Life Orb / Lum Berry
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Shell Smash allows Gorebyss to become a fearsome sweeper and to clean up easily once opposing revenge killers are defeated. Surf provides a powerful yet reliable option for sweeping through the opponent's team. Signal Beam hits Grass-types such as Ludicolo and Exeggutor, as well as hitting Jynx, which otherwise walls Gorebyss. These two moves together provide excellent coverage in NU. For the last moveslot, Substitute is generally preferred, as it allows Gorebyss to set up in front of walls such as Torkoal, Alomomola, and Metang without fear by shielding it from status. Substitute is also the setup move of choice when the opponent's revenge killer is still alive because it protects Gorebyss from opposing priority and Choice Scarf users, allowing it to continue its swee. Ice Beam is an alternative, and while it does not provide insurance against revenge killers, it does allow Gorebyss to take down Roselia, Altaria, and Vileplume if its teammates are unable to do so. However if you go this route, be sure to defeat opposing Choice Scarf users first before attempting to sweep with Gorebyss.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Timid nature allows Gorebyss to outspeed everything up to base 85 Speed Choice Scarf users at +2 Speed, including Choice Scarf Sawk and Gardevoir. It also allows Gorebyss to outspeed utility Misdreavus when unboosted, allowing it to set up Shell Smash or Substitute before being Taunted or burned by Will-O-Wisp, respectively. A Modest nature can be used for more cleaning power, but outspeeding Misdreavus is usually preferred. Hydro Pump can be used for added wallbreaking power, as it can OHKO defensive threats such as Audino, but the loss in accuracy is not worth it, because an untimely miss would end a potential sweep due to Gorebyss's frailty at -1 defenses. The item choice corresponds with the move chosen in the fourth slot. Life Orb should be used with Substitute, as together they guarantee power and safety, and the added residual damage should not matter too much because Gorebyss should ideally only need to use Substitute once. You could also opt to use Leftovers for more opportunities to set up a Substitute, but Life Orb helps Gorebyss nab some important KOs; for example, it needs the additional power to OHKO SubBU Braviary at +2 after Stealth Rock damage. Lum Berry should be used with Ice Beam, as it guarantees protection against status alongside Ice Beam's superior coverage. It also allows Gorebyss to switch into Toxic Spikes fearlessly once.</p>

    <p>Swellow and Braviary are decent partners, as they are both capable of taking down troublesome special walls with relative ease. They can also lure in Rock-types and U-turn into Gorebyss, allowing it to set up by threatening an OHKO. Entry hazard support is also crucial for Gorebyss to nab important KOs. For example, Life Orb Gorebyss needs Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes to OHKO specially defensive Ludicolo with Signal Beam, and Gorebyss without a boosting item needs Stealth Rock to guarantee a 2HKO against Lickilicky. Scolipede and Golem are good examples of offensive teammates that can set up entry hazards. Teammates that hit had physically are also appreciated. For example, Primeape and Pinsir are able to break down the special walls that stop Gorebyss and lure in physical walls such as Alomomola for Gorebyss to set up on. Encore or Memento support is appreciated, as it grants Gorebyss additional setup opportunities. Liepard and Muk can provide this support effectively. Dual screens support is very helpful for Gorebyss, as the added survivability allows it to set up more effectively and survive a few hits from weak priority moves and revenge killers. Teammates that can provide dual screens support include Serperior, Gardevoir, and Ampharos. Gorebyss's sweep can be cut short by Toxic Spikes, as the residual damage from Substitute, Life Orb, and poison greatly reduces Gorebyss's longevity. Grounded Poison-type teammates, such as Scolipede and Muk, can remove these Toxic Spikes. Skuntank is also a useful teammate, as it can absorb Toxic Spikes, defeat Jynx, as well as Pursuit Roselia for major damage, allowing Gorebyss to have an easier time sweeping later on.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Gorebyss has access to Baton Pass and has a plethora of potential boosts to pass to teammates, including Amnesia, Iron Defense, Agility, and Aqua Ring, making it a great option on full Baton Pass teams. However, do note that the combination of Shell Smash and Baton Pass is banned in NU. Toxic can be used to catch special walls by surprise and wear them down, but it is hard to fit onto Gorebyss's moveset, and Gorebyss is generally better off using attacking moves. Hydration, Rain Dance, and Rest could be used, but this is a waste of Gorebyss's potential, especially as its defenses are decent at best. Gorebyss could make use of Rain Dance and Shell Smash for a powerful and fast sweep, but it would be more efficient if its teammates were to set up rain for it, and boosting with Shell Smash twice is still more beneficial. Finally, Hidden Power Electric could be run in the last slot to destroy unsuspecting Mantine, but this option is rather situational.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Mantine is the ultimate counter, as it does not mind any of Gorebyss's common moves, can wear Gorebyss down with Air Slash, and constantly heals itself with Rest. Regice and Lickilicky are bulky enough to tank any one hit and retaliate with Thunderbolt and Body Slam, respectively. Specially defensive Ludicolo and Roselia can switch into Surf and hit back with Giga Drain, but they risk getting OHKOed with the appropriate coverage move with entry hazard support. Choice Scarf users, such as Rotom-A, Jynx, and Primeape, can easily revenge kill Gorebyss, even at +2 Speed. Kangaskhan can utilize two forms of priority moves in Fake Out and Sucker Punch to do the same. However, be mindful that all these revenge killing attempts are stopped cold if Gorebyss has an intact Substitute. Kangaskhan can also be beaten if you mispredict and use Sucker Punch as Gorebyss sets up a Substitute. The best way to defeat Gorebyss is to keep hammering at it before it sets up because this will either severely dent it or prevent it from successfully setting up a Substitute, which makes revenge killing much easier. Non-Lum Berry variants of Gorebyss also dislike Toxic Spikes, which shortens its sweep, so Roselia and Scolipede are great Pokemon to have when facing it as they can set up Toxic Spikes and at the same time discourage Gorebyss from switching in and setting up due to their ability to OHKO it.</p>

    skeleton (open)

    [Overview]

    - dangerous setup sweeper, can give defensive teams trouble too
    - Faces competition from Carracosta, which has priority and easier time setting up
    - Low Speed leaves it vulnerable to revenge killing though
    - really tough to find setup opportunities as well because it takes lots of damage from most powerful things

    [SET]
    name: Shell Smash
    move 1: Shell Smash
    move 2: Surf
    move 3: Signal Beam
    move 4: Substitute / Ice Beam
    item: Life Orb / Lum Berry
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    - Shell Smash allows Gorebyss to become a fearsome sweeper, once opposing scarfers are gone, not much is stopping it
    - Surf is STAB move, better used for cleaning, more reliable accuracy
    - Signal Beam hits Grasses like Eggy, Ludi while hitting Jynx
    - Sub shields Gorebyss from status and lets it set up in front of walls, superior option
    - more importantly, shields it from scarfers and opposing priority
    - Better to use it first if opponent still has Scarfer alive
    - can sub on things like mola, Torkoal, Metang
    - Ice Beam if you hate Roselia and Altaria, but make sure to defeat opposing scarfers first if you want to dream of sweeping

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    - Timid outspeeds scarfed base 85s eg. Scarf Sawk, Scarf Gardy at +2. Also outspeeds utility missy before boost
    - Modest can be used for extra power
    - Life Orb + Sub isn't usually a good idea, but Gorebyss needs the power to burst through bulky stuff and it really only needs to sub once anyway
    - eg. SubBU Braviary is only OHKOd by Surf if Gorebyss has LO
    - Lum Berry used with Ice Beam to avoid status, also allows it to switch into tspikes
    - Lefties can be used for more subs though generally not needed and insurance / power is sorely missed
    - Hydro Pump can break through walls like Audino but a miss could be costly
    - Birds are good teammates, can U-turn out of Rocks into Gorebyss
    - Hazard support is crucial to rack up damage and nab KOs eg. needs SR to 2HKO Lickilicky without boosting item at +2, LO Byss needs SR + Spikes to OHKO SDef Ludi
    - Eg. Scolipede, Golem can set them up
    - Physical attacking teammates can wear down walls for Gorebyss
    - Primeape, Pinsir, etc can break most special walls
    - Encore / Memento support is nice to let Gorebyss set up sub and/or smash
    - Liepard or Muk can do this effectively
    - Good teammates can also remove toxic spikes because they cut into Gorebyss' ability to sub up
    - Scolipede and Muk are examples
    - Skunk can beat Jynx, heavily damage Roselia with pursuit, absorb toxic spikes

    [Other Options]

    - Baton Pass consisting of Amnesia, Iron Defense, Aqua Ring, Agility. Can be used on full baton pass teams. SmashPass is banned btw
    - Toxic catches special walls by surprise but is hard to fit in, and Gorebyss is better off spamming attacks
    - HydraRest, but defenses are only decent and should be used for power
    - Rain Dance + Shell Smash can beat scarfers and get power, but more efficient if teammates set it up for it
    - HP Electric for Mantine but is rare

    [Checks and Counters]

    - Mantine doesn't mind any of its moves and walls it all day
    - Special Defensive Ludi, Vileplume and Rose can tank and retaliate with Giga Drain even after a smash, but Plume and Rose die to +2 LO Ice Beam, while Ludi is OHKOd by Signal Beam after SR and Spikes
    - Regice can tank and retaliate with Thunderbolt even after a smash
    - Lickilicky can tank and retaliate with Body Slam to threaten paralysis even after a smash
    - Choice Scarf users can easily revenge kill it eg. Jynx, Primeape, Rotom-A
    - Kangaskhan
    - Unfortunately their attempts are ruined by sub so pls keep hammering at its sub so revenge killing is easier
    - Toxic Spikes will also ruin Gorebyss' staying ability and discourages use of Substitute
    - Rose, Garb can set them up
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2013
  2. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast formerly Brawlfest
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    940
    You should probably rename the set to either "SubSmash" or "Substitute + Shell Smash," and put Sub as the second move so it's Smash | Sub | Surf / Hydro | Signal Beam. Sub is really important for Gorebyss to set up (and one of the main reasons it's getting a revamp) since it eases prediction and lets Byss Smash much more safely.

    Also, maybe the main nature should be Modest? The only threats you outspeed with Timid are: Scarf Sawk/Braviary/Gardy, Electrode, and Chlorophyll Eggy, who are all pretty rare for the most part. Dunno though, you should probably talk to QC on that one :I
  3. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    2,159
    Changed the main nature to Modest, idk about the SubSmash one though
  4. Namso

    Namso
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2009
    Messages:
    3,304
    Change it to SubSmash and mention an all-out Shell Smash attacker in OO. Also, make sure you mention that Shell Smash Baton Pass is banned in NU when you mention Baton Pass in OO.
  5. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    2,159
    Made the above changes, and if QC disagrees with the SubSmash thing, I wouldn't mind.
  6. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2011
    Messages:
    1,080
    [Overview]
    I would remove the first point and combine the 3rd and 4th sentences together and place that at the top. Basically say that it is a dangerous setup sweeper that can also give defensive teams trouble. Elaborate more on that Gorebyss has a hard time setting up, because it's really one of the biggest issues with it along with how easy it is to revenge kill. Mention how its mediocre bulk means it's hard to find an opportunity to set up as even resisted hits will do a lot of damage. If it can't find the chance to set up it is essentially a worse Water-type than any of the other choices since it has no utility outside of SS unlike Carracosta, Samurott, and Ludicolo.

    [Set]
    I think this is how the set should look like:
    [SET]
    name: SubSmash
    move 1: Shell Smash
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Surf
    move 4: Signal Beam
    item: Leftovers / Lum Berry
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe [these two should look like this not SAtk or Spd]

    Hydro Pump in AC because missing sucks especially when it's pretty hard to get more than 1 Shell Smash a game or even survive if you end up missing at all. Generally when you find the opportunity to Shell Smash things are weakened enough anyways. Mystic Water is a pretty good option, but I think Lum Berry is better here so that Gorebyss can set up to +4 on Alomomola, be able to shake off a Poison from TSpikes that could hamper you while you sweep, or avoid random Thunder Waves. Timid over Modest because outspeeding Misdreavus is pretty cool, Modest can go in AC though.

    [Set Comments]
    Remove mention of Hydro Pump since that is AC now. Add the Pokemon that Gorebyss can set up a Sub on: Alomomola, Metang, Torkoal, Missy variants with Foul Play.

    [Additional Comments]
    Add HPump and Mystic Water option here. Make the only other item choices Mystic Water and Life Orb. White Herb is kind of bad and hardly helps while Pinch Berries won't really come as handy as everything else. I wouldn't mention HP Grass either since this set already beats Alomomola and Seismitoad and the coverage isn't so good without Ice Beam. (The set with all 3 attacks is in OO anyways) Ice Beam + Surf by itself is decent enough to get the mention in AC tho. Find more examples on how important hazards are, otherwise remove it. Add Skuntank as a partner as it can soak up TSpikes, trap Jynx, and Pursuit Roselia for major damage.

    Implement and I can look at it again later @scorpdestroyer
  7. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    2,159
    Changes implemented
  8. The Quasar

    The Quasar
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,688
    I still consider good/useful the set with 3 special attack and Shell Smash. Although it's true it could revenge killing by Jynx and more susceptible to be poisoned/ paralyzed etc., IMHO this remains a set playable. Will not always have to deal with Jynx, remains effective with flying and grass type (Ice Beam) and under rain it's fastest than faster.
  9. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    2,159
    The problem with that set is that it's revenge killed far too easily without a sub, especially with all common scarfers nowadays able to outspeed it at +2. It can also hit Jynx and OHKO it, which is actually quite something to differentiate it from Carracosta, and Water + Bug coverage is extremely good in NU. The current set still can hit flying-types since all the bulkiest ones currently are 2HKO'd, while Signal Beam still hits Grass-types and Ludicolo hard. Also Sub lets it set up on Alomomomomomomo, Metang and Torkoal
  10. The Quasar

    The Quasar
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,688
    But I'm agree with this set. Signal Beam is very good and Substitute helps it on situations you have rightly describe. But I can describe several situations where you might not be able to have two moves "free" to make Substitute and Shell Smash immediately after, I think.
  11. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    May 26, 2013
    Messages:
    1,372
    It forces switches, so yeah. And walls might not be able to break subs. And you can sub on a sucker punch, ost common priority in NU. So yeah.... Anyway it has good two move coverage.
  12. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2011
    Messages:
    1,080
    [Additional Comments]
    Since Mystic Water is not a main item, don't include the part about SR support since the standard items don't get any real key KOes with it. You can use OHKOing SubBU Braviary after SR as a reason to use Mystic Water/LO however.

    QC Approved 1/3 @scorpdestroyer
  13. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    2,159
    It needs stealth rock to 2hko Lickilicky without mystic water, so I guess I'll leave it in

    Anyway thanks ebeast now for QC 2/3
  14. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    2,159
    so on irc it was decided that Ice Beam gets a slash with Substitute, the item of choice is LO, and Sub gets demoted. I'm still dubious on undermining the importance of Sub though, but oh wells
  15. tennisace

    tennisace another eggnog, please
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Social Media Chief

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    7,108
    mention that sub stops priority too, and that since most teams only have 1 priority users 1 sub is generally all you'll need

    [​IMG]

    looks good to me, write it
    scorpdestroyer
  16. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    2,159
  17. Hollywood

    Hollywood le toucan has arrived
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Battle Server Administratoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon IRC SOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Other Metas Leader

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    4,291
    [Overview]
    Most setup sweepers do well against defensive teams, so I'd just say ''that can do well against offensive and defensive teams alike."
    This is really slim right now. We're all about trimming the fat, but it feels like you've trimmed half the steak here. When you talk about Gorebyss's low Speed, expand on it a bit. Mention that nearly every common Choice Scarf user can outspeed it at +2 and that even if the opponent doesn't have a Choice Scarf user, chances are that they'll have priority to fuck it up. You can also talk about Gorebyss's coverage and state that while it's good, it has to choose specifically what it wants to beat ;(Signal Beam lets it beat Jynx and Ludicolo; HP Electric lets it beat Mantine; HP Grass lets it beat Seismitoad; Ice Beam lets it beat Altaria, other Dragon-types, Vileplume, and Roselia; and so on). You can also talk about how Toxic Spikes fuck it up. Lots of different things you can mention. Pick the ones you think are the most important.

    [Set Comments]
    Switch the order of the following sentences. "More importantly, it protects Gorebyss from opposing priority and Choice Scarf users, allowing it to continue its sweep without being revenge killed. Substitute would be the setup move of choice when the opponent's revenge killer is still alive."

    [Additional Comments]
    When you talk about setting up on Misdreavus, there's really pretty much no such thing as a Misdreavus that carries Foul Play but does not carry Taunt. I'd just say that it allows Gorebyss to set up a Shell Smash against Misdreavus before being Taunted or a Substitute before being Will-O-Wisp'd or something along those lines.
    On the mention of Hydro Pump, just state that Hydro Pump could end a potential sweep, as Gorebyss is too frail at -1 defenses to recover from a miss.
    Mention dual screens support. It's not mandatory for Gorebyss, but it certainly helps it a ton.

    [Checks and Counters]
    For the Kangaskhan mention, note that Substitute variants can dodge Sucker Punch and continue to sweep if the Kangaskhan user mispredicts.

    This mostly looks good. Make these changes and revamp the Overview a bit, and I'll stamp.
  18. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    2,159
    Treecko made the changes, hope the overview is fatter now
  19. Hollywood

    Hollywood le toucan has arrived
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Battle Server Administratoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon IRC SOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Other Metas Leader

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    4,291
    I made some slight tweaks to the intro. Everything else is good.

    QC Approved 3/3
  20. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    2,159
    This is ready for GP
  21. Lasagne

    Lasagne THE HERO APPEARS (xmas edition)
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2013
    Messages:
    2,548
    first amcheck, hopefully its not shit

    Additions
    Deletions
    (Comments)

    Show Hide
    [Overview]
    <p>Gorebyss's access to Shell Smash makes it a very dangerous setup sweeper that can do well against offensive and defensive teams alike. While it is powerful, it does face competition from another Shell Smasher, Carracosta, which has a priority move and an easier time setting up. However, Gorebyss, on the other hand, has trouble finding setup opportunities, especially against offensive teams, because most powerful moves leave it badlydo a lot of damaged. Gorebyss also suffers from a slight case of four moveslot-syndrome; while its coverage is decent, it cannot cover every defensive threat at the same time. Gorebyss's low Speed leaves it extremely vulnerable to revenge killing even after a boost, because almost every common Choice Scarf user can outspeed it at +2 and OHKO it. Even after Choice Scarf users are removed, Gorebyss still has to watch out for priority users which can take it out with its lowered defenses. The large amount of team support required to support a sweep from Gorebyss is something that needs to be considered when you are using it.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Shell Smash
    move 1: Shell Smash
    move 2: Surf
    move 3: Signal Beam
    move 4: Substitute / Ice Beam
    item: Life Orb / Lum Berry
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Shell Smash allows Gorebyss to become a fearsome sweeper and allows it to clean up the game easily once opposing revenge killers are defeated. Surf is the main STAB move, providing a powerful yet reliable option for
    sweeping through an opponent's team (used 'cleaning up the game' twice close to each other). Signal Beam hits Grass-types such as Ludicolo and Exeggutor, as well as hitting Jynx, which would otherwise walls Gorebyss. These two moves together provide excellent coverage in NU. For the last moveslot, Substitute is the superior option,generally preferred, as it allowing its Gorebyss to set up in front of walls such as Torkoal, Alomomola, and Metang without fear, since it is shields ited from status. Substitute would be the setup move of choicealso comes in handy when the opponent's revenge killer is still alive, because it protects Gorebyss from opposing priority and Choice Scarf users, allowing it to continue its sweep without being revenge killed. Ice Beam is an alternative, and while it does not provide insurance against revenge killers, it does allow Gorebyss to take down Roselia, Altaria, and Vileplume if its teammates are unable to do so. However, be sure to defeat opposing Choice Scarf users first before attempting to sweep with Gorebyss.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Timid nature allows Gorebyss to outspeed base 85 Speed Choice Scarf users at +2 Speed, such as Choice Scarf Sawk and Gardevoir. It also allows Gorebyss to outspeed Utility Misdreavus when unboosted, allowing it to set up Shell Smash or Substitute before being Taunted or burned by Will-O-Wisp respectively. A Modest nature can be used for more cleaning power, although outspeeding Misdreavus is still a nicer bonususually preferred. The item choice corresponds with the move chosen in the fourth slot. A Life Orb should be used with Substitute, as it guarantees power and safety, and the added residual damage should not matter too much because Gorebyss should ideally only need to use Substitute once. The Life Orb helps Gorebyss nab some KOs; for example, it needs ithe extra power to OHKO SubBU Braviary at +2 after Stealth Rock damage. The Lum Berry should be used with Ice Beam, as it guarantees protection against status while obtaining greatsuperior coverage to the Substitute set. It also allows Gorebyss to switch into Toxic Spikes fearlessly. You could opt to use Leftovers for more opportunities to set up a Substitute, but the lack of power from Life Orb would be sorely missed, and generally Gorebyss should not use Substitute too often anyway. Hydro Pump can be used for added wallbreaking power, as it can now OHKO key walls such as Audino, but the loss in accuracy is not worth it, because an untimely miss would end a potential sweep due to Gorebyss's frailty at -1 Defenses.</p>


    <p>Swellow and Braviary are decent partners, as they
    are both are capable of taking down troublesome special walls with relative ease. They can also lure in Rock-types and U-turn out of them and into Gorebyss, givproviding it a setup opportunity by threatening a OHKO. Entry hazard support is also crucial for Gorebyss to nab important KOs. For example, Life Orb Gorebyss needs Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes to OHKO Specially Defensive Ludicolo with Signal Beam, and Gorebyss without a boosting item needs Stealth Rock to guarantee a 2HKO against Lickilicky. Scolipede and Golem are good examples of offensive teammates that can set up entry hazards. Teammates that hit hard on the physical side are also appreciated. For example, Primeape and Pinsir are able to break down the special walls that stop Gorebyss, while luring in physical walls such as Alomomola for Gorebyss to set up on. Encore or Memento support is appreciated, as it grants Gorebyss setup opportunities. Liepard and Muk (rearranged Liepard and Muk to match the order Encore and Memento were stated in) can doprovide this support effectively. Dual Screens support is very helpful to Gorebyss, as the added survivability allowings it to set up more effectively and survive a few hits from weak priority moves or revenge killers. Teammates that can provide Dual Screens support include Serperior, Gardevoir, and Ampharos. Gorebyss's sweep can be cut short by Toxic Spikes, as the residual damage with Substitute, Life Orb, and poison damage reduces Gorebyss's longevity. Grounded Poison-type teammates, such as Scolipede and Muk, can remove these Toxic Spikes. Skuntank is also a wonderuseful teammate, as it absorbs Toxic Spikes, defeats Jynx, as well as Pursuiting Roselia for major damage, allowing Gorebyss to have an easier time sweeping later on.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Gorebyss has access to Baton Pass, and has a plethora of boosts to pass to teammates, including Amnesia, Iron Defense, Agility, and Aqua Ring, and is a great option on full Baton Pass teams. However, do note that the combination of Shell Smash and Baton Pass is banned in NU. Toxic can be used to catch special walls by surprise and wear them down, but it is hard to fit in ionto theGorebyss's moveset, and Gorebyssit is better off uspamming attacking moves. Hydration, Rain Dance, and Rest could be used, but this is a waste of Gorebyss' potential and its defenses are decent at best. Gorebyss could make use of Rain Dance and Shell Smash for a powerful and fast sweep, but it iswould be more efficient if its teammates were to set up rain for it, and boosting with Shell Smash twice is still more beneficial to Gorebyss. Finally, Hidden Power Electric could be run in the last slot to destroy unsuspecting Mantine, but this option is rather situational.</p>


    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Mantine is the ultimate counter, as it does not mind any of Gorebyss' common moves, wears it down with Air Slash, and has the option to constantly heals itself with Rest. Regice and Lickilicky are both bulky enough to tank any one hit and retaliate with Thunderbolt and Body Slam respectively. Specially Defensive Ludicolo and Roselia can switch into Surf and retaliatehit back with Giga Drain, but they risk getting OHKOed with the appropriate coverage move and entry hazard support. Choice Scarf users, such as Rotom-A, Jynx, and Primeape, can easily revenge kill Gorebyss, even at +2 Speed. Kangaskhan can utilize thedouble priority in Fake Out + Sucker Punch combination to defeat Gorebyss. However, be mindful that their revenge killing attempts are stopped cold if Gorebyss has an intact Substitute. Kangaskhan can also be beaten if it mispredicts and uses Sucker Punch as Gorebyss sets up a Substitute. The best way to defeat Gorebyss is to keep hammering at it before it sets up, because this will either severely dent it, or prevent it from successfully setting up a Substitute, which would makes revenge killing much easier. Non-Lum Berry variants of Gorebyss also dislike Toxic Spikes, which will shorten its sweep, which makes Roselia and Scolipede great Pokemon to set them up, and at the same time discouraging Gorebyss from switching in and setting up due to their capability of OHKOing it.</p>
    Kingler12345 likes this.
  22. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    2,159
    Implemented Lasagne's amcheck, left out one or two changes that I disagreed with
  23. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego No matter if it seems so hard, friends are near
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor

    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Messages:
    3,103
    scorpdestroyer

    REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS

    Show Hide

    [Overview]

    <p>Gorebyss's access to Shell Smash makes it a very dangerous setup sweeper that can do well against offensive and defensive teams alike. While it is powerful, it does face competition from another Shell Smash user, Carracosta, which has a priority move and an easier time setting up. Gorebyss, on the other hand, has trouble finding setup opportunities, especially against offensive teams, because most powerful moves do a lot of damage. Gorebyss also suffers from a slight case of four-moveslot syndrome; while its coverage is decent, it cannot cover every defensive threat at the same time. Gorebyss's low Speed leaves it extremely vulnerable to revenge killing even after a boost, because almost every common Choice Scarf user can outspeed it at +2 and OHKO. Even after Choice Scarf users are removed, Gorebyss still has to watch out for priority users which can take it out with its lowered defenses. The large amount of team support required to support a sweep from Gorebyss is something that needs to be considered when you are using it.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Shell Smash
    move 1: Shell Smash
    move 2: Surf
    move 3: Signal Beam
    move 4: Substitute / Ice Beam
    item: Life Orb / Lum Berry
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Shell Smash allows Gorebyss to become a fearsome sweeper and allows it to clean up the game easily once opposing revenge killers are defeated. Surf is the main STAB move, providing a powerful yet reliable option for sweeping through the opponent's team. Signal Beam hits Grass-types such as Ludicolo and Exeggutor, as well as hitting Jynx, which otherwise walls Gorebyss. These two moves together provide excellent coverage in NU. For the last moveslot, Substitute is generally preferred, as it allows Gorebyss to set up in front of walls such as Torkoal, Alomomola, and Metang without fear, since it is shielded from status. Substitute would be the setup move of choice when the opponent's revenge killer is still alive, because it protects Gorebyss from opposing priority and Choice Scarf users, allowing it to continue its sweep without being revenge killed. Ice Beam is an alternative, and while it does not provide insurance against revenge killers, it does allow Gorebyss to take down Roselia, Altaria, and Vileplume if its teammates are unable to do so. However, be sure to defeat opposing Choice Scarf users first before attempting to sweep with Gorebyss.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Timid nature allows Gorebyss to outspeed everything up to base 85 Speed Choice Scarf users at +2 Speed, including Choice Scarf Sawk and Gardevoir. It also allows Gorebyss to outspeed utility Misdreavus when unboosted, allowing it to set up Shell Smash or Substitute before being Taunted or burned by Will-O-Wisp respectively. A Modest nature can be used for more cleaning power, although outspeeding Misdreavus is usually preferred. The item choice corresponds with the move chosen in the fourth slot. A Life Orb should be used with Substitute, as it guarantees power and safety, and the added residual damage should not matter too much because Gorebyss should ideally only need to use Substitute once. The Life Orb helps Gorebyss nab some KOs; for example, it needs the additional power to OHKO SubBU Braviary at +2 after Stealth Rock damage. The Lum Berry should be used with Ice Beam, as it guarantees protection against status while obtaining superior coverage. It also allows Gorebyss to switch into Toxic Spikes fearlessly. You could opt to use Leftovers for more opportunities to set up a Substitute, but the lack of power from Life Orb would be sorely missed, and generally Gorebyss should not use Substitute too often anyway. Hydro Pump can be use for added wallbreaking power, as it can now OHKO walls such as Audino, but the loss in accuracy is not worth it, because an untimely miss would end a potential sweep due to Gorebyss's frailty at -1 Defenses.</p>

    <p>Swellow and Braviary are decent partners, as they are both capable of taking down troublesome special walls with relative ease. They can also lure in Rock-types and U-turn into Gorebyss, providing a setup opportunity by threatening a OHKO. Entry hazard support is also crucial for Gorebyss to nab important KOs. For example, Life Orb Gorebyss needs Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes to OHKO specially defensive Ludicolo with Signal Beam, and Gorebyss without a boosting item needs Stealth Rock to guarantee a 2HKO against Lickilicky. Scolipede and Golem are good examples of offensive teammates that can set up entry hazards. Teammates that hit hard on the physical side are also appreciated. For example, Primeape and Pinsir are able to break down the special walls that stop Gorebyss, while luring in physical walls such as Alomomola for Gorebyss to set up on. Encore or Memento support is appreciated, as it grants Gorebyss additional setup opportunities. Liepard and Muk can provide this support effectively. Dual screens support is very helpful to Gorebyss, as the added survivability allows it to set up more effectively and survive a few hits from weak priority moves or revenge killers. Teammates that can provide dual screens support include Serperior, Gardevoir, and Ampharos. Gorebyss's sweep can be cut short by Toxic Spikes, as the residual damage with Substitute, Life Orb, and poison damage reduces Gorebyss's longevity. Grounded Poison-type teammates, such as Scolipede and Muk, can remove these Toxic Spikes. Skuntank is also a useful teammate, as it absorbs Toxic Spikes, defeats Jynx, as well as Pursuits Roselia for major damage, allowing Gorebyss to have an easier time sweeping later on.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Gorebyss has access to Baton Pass, and has a plethora of boosts to pass to teammates, including Amnesia, Iron Defense, Agility, and Aqua Ring, and is a great option on full Baton Pass teams. However, do note that the combination of Shell Smash and Baton Pass is banned in NU. Toxic can be used to catch special walls by surprise and wear them down, but it is hard to fit onto Gorebyss's moveset, and it is better off using attacking moves. Hydration, Rain Dance, and Rest could be used, but this is a waste of Gorebyss's potential and its defenses are decent at best. Gorebyss could make use of Rain Dance and Shell Smash for a powerful and fast sweep, but it would be more efficient if its teammates were to set up rain for it, and boosting with Shell Smash twice is still more beneficial to Gorebyss. Finally, Hidden Power Electric could be run in the last slot to destroy unsuspecting Mantine, but this option is rather situational.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Mantine is the ultimate counter, as it does not mind any of Gorebyss's common moves, wears it down with Air Slash, and constantly heals itself with Rest. Regice and Lickilickybulky path are bulky enough to tank any one hit and retaliate with Thunderbolt and Body Slam respectively. Specially defensive Ludicolo and Roselia can switch into Surf and hit back with Giga Drain, but they risk getting OHKOed with the appropriate coverage move and entry hazard support. Choice Scarf users, such as Rotom-A, Jynx, and Primeape, can easily revenge kill Gorebyss, even at +2 Speed. Kangaskhan can utilize two forms of priority moves in Fake Out and Sucker Punch to defeat Gorebyss. However, be mindful that their revenge killing attempts are stopped cold if Gorebyss has an intact Substitute. Kangaskhan can also be beaten if it you mispredicts and uses Sucker Punch as Gorebyss sets up a Substitute. The best way to defeat Gorebyss is to keep hammering at it before it sets up, because this will either severely dent it, or prevent it from successfully setting up a Substitute which makes revenge killing much easier. Non-Lum Berry variants of Gorebyss also dislike Toxic Spikes, which will shorten its sweep, which makes Roselia and Scolipede great Pokemon to set them up, and at the same time discouraging Gorebyss from switching in and setting up due to their capability of OHKOing it.</p>

    Remember that strangely smogon uses Gorebyss's over Gorebyss' when using possessive.

    1/2
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2013
  24. Lasagne

    Lasagne THE HERO APPEARS (xmas edition)
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2013
    Messages:
    2,548
    Kangaskhan can also be beaten if it you mispredicts and uses Sucker Punch
    GatoDelFuego this bit doesn't make sense in your gp check (can't do colours cos phone is shit, but 'if it you' is red and the s on the end of 'uses' is red) just a note u might wanna correct that
  25. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego No matter if it seems so hard, friends are near
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor

    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Messages:
    3,103
    ^fixed, you was supposed to be blue, don't know why the editor didn't color it like that

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)