Gothitelle and Gyarados: Trap 'n' Sweep

[wbez]

Hi guys, figured I’d best introduce myself. I’m Will, or wbez on most forums around these days. Recently, after taking a break during the middle of BW, and only playing slightly competitively during BW2, I’ve got back into the game.

Now, I’ve always been bad at teambuilding, it seriously holds me back. However, with finals approaching, and my awful ability to constituently procrastinate, I’ve found myself wanting to learn to team build. It’s actually not gone too badly this time in my opinion, but I wanted to post it on Smogon to see what help I can receive.

I am very open to new ideas, or even to scrapping the entire team all together, if it’s that bad and anyone wishes to teach me how to team build better.

Anyway, enough rambling, here’s the team:

My Core -

I took inspiration from the Victory Road “Good Cores” thread for this core.

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

Mega-Gyarados, at first, was one of my least favourite megas. However, the more I messed around with it, the more I fell for it. It’s incredibly bulky, and the intimidate off the base form allows it to usually set up one Dragon Dance, and sweep late game. It’s an incredible late game sweeper actually - once its main threats (Ferrothorn, M-Vena, Skarmory, Chesnaught, to name a handful) are eliminated. This is where my next choice comes in…

Gothitelle @ Choice Specs
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 84 HP / 252 SAtk / 172 Spd
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Trick

Gothitelle was my MVP throughout a lot of my time casually playing the BW2 meta, albeit with a Choice Scarf. Recently however, she’s been seeing a lot of play, and I genuinely believe her best partner is Mega Gyarados. With HP Fire, T-Bolt and Psychic, she counters all of Gyarados’s check, and provides you with the ability to trap and kill them off one by one, leaving the field open for the late game sweep from Gya-Mega. Trick is on the set in order to counter nasty walls I find myself unable to get past, particularly with the rising popularity of Crocune.

Between the two of these, there are still a couple of counters. Breloom can Spore Gothitelle and kill it off with Bullet Seed/Rock Tomb, and Conkeldurr can Knock Off for an easy kill. This is where our next and final member of the core works wonders.

Talonflame @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Roost

Talonflame counters both of my core’s main threats, as well hitting a lot of the meta extremely hard. It provides a secondary counter to many of Gyarados’s main threats, as well as being able to be used as a revenge killer, and to wipe out anything left if Gyarados, say, misses a Stone Edge. I prefer the utility of Life Orb over Choice Band, as allowing me to Roost has been clutch several times.

Other Players:

Deoxys-Speed @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Spd / 24 Atk / 232 SAtk
Serious Nature
- Ice Beam
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Superpower

I often lead with Deoxys-Speed, mainly because I find that the hazards allow me to get kills I wouldn’t otherwise get. Ice Beam is there to hit lead Garchomps, and Superpower to hit Bisharps. It also stnads out as getting the occasional revenge kill late game, when many opponents may write it off. However, I’m currently debating switching Superpower out for Fire Punch, in order to kill off Ferrothorns, as Breloom and Excadrill deal with Bisharps quite nicely.

Excadrill @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head

This thing has honestly been so clutch. Able to spin away hazards to allow my Talonflame/Gyara to come in safely, as well as killing off pesky threats with Choice Scarf EQ/Iron Head has been absolutely incredible. Mold Breaker allows me to get rid of Rotom-Wash, which can make itself a major problem for this team, and the Latis, which can also be annoying as hell.

Breloom @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Mach Punch
- Rock Tomb
- Bullet Seed
- Spore

Finally, this is the slot I’ve been playing with most of all. I’ve gone from Bisharp to Aegislash, not sure what to put here, but in the end settled on Breloom in order to provide me with Sleep support, as well as the move I’ve begun to love more than any other - Rock Tomb. Rock Tomb’s speed reducing power has given me so many kills I otherwise wouldn’t have been able to get, dropping threats low enough so I get off a Spore, then switch into Gothitelle. It also forms a quite nice FWG core with Talonflame and Gyarados.

So there we have it. Suggestions would be really helpful, and please do tell me if I’m a complete and utter idiot, I’m here to learn!

Cheers,
wbez

Importable:

Hide

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

Gothitelle @ Choice Specs
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 84 HP / 252 SAtk / 172 Spd
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Trick

Talonflame @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Roost

Deoxys-Speed @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 24 Atk / 232 SAtk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature
- Ice Beam
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Superpower

Excadrill @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head

Breloom @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Mach Punch
- Rock Tomb
- Bullet Seed
- Spore

 

[Cabbabbers]

I will give it a try but it'd be easier if you had an importable :P

 

[jg1198]

Run Hasty nature on Deo-S, as a speed tie or even outspeeding other Deo-S is more important than the tiny bit of defense you will lose, especially when you're already running focus sash, there is no reason not to use hasty, unless you're really really afraid of choice band rhyperior rock blast (lol).

Also, take the 4 EV's in HP on talonflame at put them in Def or Spdef, as 4 hp ev's makes it so that you have an even HP number, which is bad for talonflame, as it means it can only switch in on rocks once, as you take an even 50% damage from rocks, instead of like 49.5% damage with an odd number.

 

[wbez]

I will give it a try but it'd be easier if you had an importable :P

Sorry, will stick it in now!

Run Hasty nature on Deo-S, as a speed tie or even outspeeding other Deo-S is more important than the tiny bit of defense you will lose, especially when you're already running focus sash, there is no reason not to use hasty, unless you're really really afraid of choice band rhyperior rock blast (lol).

Also, take the 4 EV's in HP on talonflame at put them in Def or Spdef, as 4 hp ev's makes it so that you have an even HP number, which is bad for talonflame, as it means it can only switch in on rocks once, as you take an even 50% damage from rocks, instead of like 49.5% damage with an odd number.

It was meant to be Hasty, oops :P

Shall do, didn't think about that!

 

[Rafael J. Feliciano]

Hey wbez, nice team you have here...

Couple of things:

1. Ice Fang > Stone Edge: Remember that after you Mega, Mold Breaker hits through things like Mega Venusaur's Thick Fat for SE Damage while just annihilating stuff like Garchomp and Dragonite.

2. 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe and Adamant Nature for Talonflame: 208 Speed outspeeds Jolly 252 Speed Mega Pinsir by 1 point; allowing you to invest the rest of the EV's into HP, which will net you an odd HP number for Stealth Rock purposes. Choice Band > Life Orb as the power that CB adds to Talonflame is not only welcomed, but needed. Lastly, Will-o-Wisp > Roost if we go with a CB Set for a last lunge if going up something like TTar.

 

[wbez]

Hey wbez, nice team you have here...

Couple of things:

1. Ice Fang > Stone Edge: Remember that after you Mega, Mold Breaker hits through things like Mega Venusaur's Thick Fat for SE Damage while just annihilating stuff like Garchomp and Dragonite.

2. 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe and Adamant Nature for Talonflame: 208 Speed outspeeds Jolly 252 Speed Mega Pinsir by 1 point; allowing you to invest the rest of the EV's into HP, which will net you an odd HP number for Stealth Rock purposes. Choice Band > Life Orb as the power that CB adds to Talonflame is not only welcomed, but needed. Lastly, Will-o-Wisp > Roost if we go with a CB Set for a last lunge if going up something like TTar.

I'll definitely test Ice Fang, but for Talonflame, do you not believe Priority Roost is more useful than Will-O? But I will definitely test the CB Set.

 

[jg1198]

Hey wbez, nice team you have here...

Couple of things:

1. Ice Fang > Stone Edge: Remember that after you Mega, Mold Breaker hits through things like Mega Venusaur's Thick Fat for SE Damage while just annihilating stuff like Garchomp and Dragonite.

2. 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe and Adamant Nature for Talonflame: 208 Speed outspeeds Jolly 252 Speed Mega Pinsir by 1 point; allowing you to invest the rest of the EV's into HP, which will net you an odd HP number for Stealth Rock purposes. Choice Band > Life Orb as the power that CB adds to Talonflame is not only welcomed, but needed. Lastly, Will-o-Wisp > Roost if we go with a CB Set for a last lunge if going up something like TTar.

You seem to not understand the Gyara-Goth core, as after a DD or two, the only things that can take a hit from gyarados are Amoonguss, Ferrothorn, Slowbro, Skarmory, Mandibuzz, Chesnaught, Zapdos, Mega Venusaur, and Kyurem-B. Gothitelle can trap and kill all of these threats except for Kyurem-B and Zapdos, and that's why Gyarados runs stone edge in this core.

Also, wbez I like your talonflame set, and I think it works well with your team, since it is much more flexible than the CB set, and helps wear things down for gyarados quite nicely.

 

[wbez]

You seem to not understand the Gyara-Goth core, as after a DD or two, the only things that can take a hit from gyarados are Amoonguss, Ferrothorn, Slowbro, Skarmory, Mandibuzz, Chesnaught, Zapdos, Mega Venusaur, and Kyurem-B. Gothitelle can trap and kill all of these threats except for Kyurem-B and Zapdos, and that's why Gyarados runs stone edge in this core.

Also, wbez I like your talonflame set, and I think it works well with your team, since it is much more flexible than the CB set, and helps wear things down for gyarados quite nicely.

I've got to say, Ice Fang is working very nicely. There's not much that it doesn't hit that Stone Edge does.

I'm liking the bonus power of CB Adamant at the moment, however I may switch back if I feel restricted by CB.

 

[Rafael J. Feliciano]

I guess I don't really need to reply directly to jg1198 since it looks like wbez is a happy customer but I will anyway.. I mention Ice Fang because of Mega Venusaur, Dragonite and Garchomp, I didn't mention any of the other stuff aside from Venu and besides... do you really want to bank on Stone Miss Edge for certain crucial kills??? That and we haven't even discuss that if Goth gets KO'd prematurely that Talonflame can still OHKO Mega Venusaur with the CB Set that I suggested.

Wbez: As for WoW over Roost, since your CB... u have Priority Roost and then... o shyt... I have to switch besause I'm choice locked... Thats my reasoning behind it... if u want you can still keep LO and Roost, but at least think abut the nature and EV Spread as talonflame is naturally fast as hell anyway and Gale Wings only exacerbates that point...

 

[wbez]

Wbez: As for WoW over Roost, since your CB... u have Priority Roost and then... o shyt... I have to switch besause I'm choice locked... Thats my reasoning behind it... if u want you can still keep LO and Roost, but at least think abut the nature and EV Spread as talonflame is naturally fast as hell anyway and Gale Wings only exacerbates that point...

Yeah, I've been trying it and tbh, that fourth move pool is kinda redundant anyway with Choice band, so Will-O is nicer for the versatility :)

 

[wbez]

Going to use my bump now, and just say that I've managed a peak of about 1700 then not much further.