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Gothitelle Discussion

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by DittoCrow, Aug 7, 2012.

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  1. DittoCrow

    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    Mar 15, 2010
    As most of us already know, Shadow Tag is one of the best abilities in the game, as it simply prevents the opponent from switching out. Besides Wobbuffet and Wynaut, only a few Pokemon receive the ability from the Dream World. One of those Pokemon is Gothitelle (and it's pre-evo, Gothorita). While this may not have an impact on the OU tier, it will most certainly impact the RU tier. Just from speculation and manor matches, some people have already started to form an opinion on it. So, what do you guys think? Gothitelle will be released with its Dream World ability on August 9th.

    Typing: Psychic
    Base Stats: 70 HP / 55 Atk / 95 Def / 95 SpA / 110 SpD / 65 Spe
    Abilities: Frisk / Shadow Tag

    Notable Moves (open)

    • Calm Mind
    • Dark Pulse
    • Energy Ball
    • Grass Knot
    • Heal Bell
    • Hidden Power
    • Light Screen
    • Psychic
    • Psyshock
    • Reflect
    • Shadow Ball
    • Substitute
    • Taunt
    • Thunderbolt
    • Thunder Wave
    • Torment
    • Toxic
    • Trick
    • Trick Room

    • What sets can Gothitelle use?
    • What counters Gothitelle?
    • What can Gothitelle set up on or beat?
    • What are some good teammates for Gothitelle?
    • Do you think Gothitelle is broken?
    • Would Gothorita, Gothitelle's pre-evo be broken as well?

    Remember that you can test it in the Spooky Manor, or talk about it in #rarelyused.
  2. Camisado


    Jun 8, 2009
    Include the -stat attacks that Gothielle has. Stuff like Tickle is incredibly viable when the opposition can't switch. And without reliable recovery, this is going to be Gothitelle's way to set up, or to give someone else a turn to set up.
  3. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent
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    Jul 6, 2009
    This really is a tough one. Obviously, its ability is set to set it above any other Psychic-type in the tier. However, RU is a tier quite well adapted to deal with Gothitelle.

    The most obvious answer that springs to mind is Spiritomb. Spiritomb already counters / traps nigh on all Psychic- and Ghost-types; is Gothitelle any different? It's immune to the obligatory STAB and Fighting-type coverage move, and its bulk means it can easily take Shadow Ball. It can then simply Pursuit Gothitelle. Drapion is in a similar boat, immune to STAB, but resistant to Ghost and neutral to Fighting. Gothitelle runs a big risk when using a Specs set, as it's Speed is rubbish, and SpA about average. If the opponent runs a Pursuiter, it's essentially a kill for a kill. Scarf sets are very weak, only able to pick off very frail Pokemon such as Zangoose. Bulky boosters seem more efficient, as they can come in on a non-threatening wall and set up, thus making stall nigh on unviable...

    I've not had personal experience with Gothitelle, not having used it myself, only against me, but the only time it really made me lose the match was because a Scarf one managed to snipe off my Zangoose, which would otherwise have swept my opponent. While Gothitelle's stats are somewhat unimpressive (although it is scarily bulky), this ability to be able to pick a Pokemon to KO on your opponents' team that gives your team the most trouble and safely eliminate it may result in Gothitelle being broken. I'll try getting more experience with it, and that editing my post.
  4. Bigblue


    Jul 13, 2011
    Alright here is my go at it.

    Gothitelle (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Calm Mind
    - Trick Room
    - Psychic
    - Thunderbolt/Energy Ball/Shadow Ball

    Gothitelle (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Frisk
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Substitute
    - Psychic
    - Thunderbolt

    These are the two sets that I have considered and believe could be the most effective in the current RU meta because of a few key reasons. These both focus on setting up and one benefits from sub while the other packs trick room which would be much deadlier but is prone to status.

    Set #1-
    This set could possibly sweep a whole enemy team as electric/psychic is has great coverage to OHKO almost everything in RU once it has +6 with TR giving it some reasonable speed. Very few things can take on a +6 Gothitelle with TR some include munchlax, clefable, sdef drapion with whirlwind, and steelix with roar. The only and huge weakness for this set is that while setting up it is completely defenseless to status moves like toxic which could completely ruin a sweep.

    Set #2-
    Basically the same as the first one but it doesn't benefit from TR to enable a sweep but instead packs substitute. Substitute in most scenarios would be the superior move as it makes setting up so much easier and ensures that at least one hard hit can be thrown out once you have killed the opposing setup fodder. It also grants immunity to status moves so you can survive easily. Things that best counter this set would be essentially the same as the one above eg. drapion and munchlax.

    What can gothitelle setup on?

    Most obviously the pokemon that would be the easiest to setup on would be roselia not packing sludge bomb (More common than you think) as it has nothing to status gothi or break subs once a couple CMs are up. A few other pokemon to mention would be ferroseed, slowking, uxie without u-turn, mespirit, defensive hitmonchan and couple more which are more situational.

    Some good teamates would be things like lanturn or clefable to be a cleric if gothitelle gets statused. Also pokemon that can wish greatly help gothitelle to continue sweeping after if has taken couple hits, eg.Clefable again. The most important thing for a gothitelle to work properly would be someone that can soak up toxic spikes as those make gothitelle completely useless, eg. drapion or roselia.

    Personally I have not tested gothitelle enough to come to a conclusion but have a feeling that with the inclusion of how nidoqueen, new moltres, and escavalier have forced so many players to bring checks for just those pokemon plus now how gothitelle will make everyteam bring a drapion or spiritomb it will centralise the metagame too much and at least one of these 4 pokemon will have to be banned.
  5. blarajan

    blarajan Rest in Bling
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    Aug 29, 2010
    ^ What the fuck are you setting up on that lets Gothitelle of all things get to +6 and set up Trick Room as well? None of the things you mentioned actually let you do that..........................
  6. TheMexican


    Nov 17, 2010
    Personally I haven´t tested Gothielle much. But I´d edit my post if I change my mind.
    With Nidoqueen, the new moltres and escavalier, Gothielle sounds like it can ¨balance¨the metagame by forcing players to bring fast hazers such as cryogonal, or just unaware quagsire, and even with that it doesn´t have many safe switch ins thanks to Team Preview. Imo it wont be broken.
  7. Bigblue


    Jul 13, 2011
    OK looking back that set with trickroom really is shit because nothing will let you setup that much unless you can catch a roselia that only runs giga drain and no leechseed or sludgebomb or status move which has almost no chance of happening.

    Also you need to take a chill pill, there is no point in swearing and trying to fight just because someone posted something you have a different opinion about. Educate others without attacking them.
  8. BattleStar


    Aug 29, 2010
    I used Goth in manor matches and found it a really cool Pokemon to use. It will have a fairly easy time finding stuff to set up on IMO. In my match between SilentVerse for spooky manor, Goth was able to set up on my Tangrowth very easily. I however felt if I had Toxic over sleep powder that could have made a difference. I then was able to eliminate goth after it KOed Tango with Haze Cyro. However I had to sacrifice Cyro in the process due to Psyshock making a good counter against him.

    With goth I will predict we will see a rise in Volt Switching and U-Turning. I find that U-Turn can be extremely effective as it hits for Super effective damage. You then can switch to something that can set up if goth switches or just KO it there. Most notably I see Absol be a possible Pokemon that may rise in usage with Goth being introduced to RU now.
  9. august

    august ill take you out though im hardly worth your time
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnuswon the 5th Official Smogon Tournamentis a defending World Cup of Pokemon champion

    Nov 25, 2007
    Gothitelle @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Trick
    - Psychic / Psyshock
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    This is the set i've been using in Manor, along with a Choice Scarf Rotom-c to get a lot of momentum and trap some common Rotom-c switch ins like Ferroseed.

    Personally, I don't think Goth is quite broken, as in a lot of offensive matches it doesn't get any KOs, or gets one and then gets hit by a common Pursuit user like Absol or Spiritomb. However, like Nidoqueen, Goth thrives against slower defensive teams. Here is a list of some defensive pokemon Goth can trap off of the top of my head.

    -Cryogonal (with Psyshock)

    I know i'm missing more but w/e you get the point. Goth is a great support pokemon for mons like Klinklang and Crawdaunt, as if you can effectively remove the counters then these pokemon sweep quite easily. Goth can also trap a good amount of Choice locked / weak Fighting-types and OHKO them with Choice Specs boosted Psychic.

    What really makes me say Goth isn't broken though is the fact that it's base 65 Speed just isn't cutting it in a fast paced offensive tier. Unlike Nidoqueen, who has a decent base 76 Speed, Goth has to run a Speed boosting nature to have a shot at effectively trapping stuff, and even with its rather excellent defensives, it still has trouble vs offense, Will edit this more as manor continues etc
  10. deluge


    Sep 19, 2009
    Well it's no surprise that Pokemon with this great ability all have serious flaws and are pursuit weak.

    I think Gothetelle's going to find sweeping difficult given its low speed. But it learns a large number of support moves. So maybe it can find a niche as support Pokemon that gets to select what it sets up against and prevent it from switching.

    Light Screen
    Thunder Wave
    Heal Bell
    Fake Tears
    Rain Dance
    Trick Room

    The above are all potentially great moves to support the team and Gothitelle with Shadow Tag can reliably select what to set up against. With its good bulk and Shadow Tag it should be a rather reliable dual screener and supporter.

    ~Light Screen
    ~Taunt/ Anything the team needs
    ~Heal Bell/ Thunder Wave/ Psychic/ Gravity/ Trick Room/ Anything the team needs

    A potential ToxiStaller/Wallbreaker is:
    ~Psychic/ HP Fire/ Anything the team needs

    IMO, Rest is viable recovery on Gothitelle if the right Pokemon is trapped. It gets DreamEater but has no way to induce sleep.
  11. DittoCrow

    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    Mar 15, 2010
    Ok we discussed Gothitelle for a bit on IRC and this is what people thought:

    • The general consensus was that Gothitelle IS broken, but the majority of people haven't tested it for more than a few days
    • Gothitelle works great in VoltTurn teams, as it can trap many foes very easily
    • Pokemon with Memento, such as Whimsicott, allow Gothitelle to trap and KO Pokemon
    • Gothitelle is really bulky, so that might have been a reason that people thought it is broken
    • Spiritomb annihilates Gothitelle with Pursuit, but running Spiritomb on every team is bad :(

    Some sets people used:
    • Choice Specs
    • Substitute + Calm Mind
    • Choice Scarf

    Feel free to expand on this, and there will be another IRC discussion tomorrow (hopefully xD)!
  12. Singe


    Aug 10, 2012
    She can use Signal Beam.
  13. -Tsunami-

    -Tsunami- Old Gen Legend
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    Feb 27, 2009
    Gothitelle is an awesome Pokemon. It can destroy a lot of stall teams, especially since Cryogonal can be decimated by Specs Psyshock. I have found Choice Specs to be the best set, as CM is just trolled by Spiritomb and, even if you get to +6, something like Haze Cryogonal can just troll you. Choice Specs is very efficient at removing the counters of a lot of Pokemon, and it's ability to remove Cryogonal means that stall teams will have a hard time getting past your team, as entry hazards will become a major problem for them. It also has pretty good coverage, meaning that most walls in the tier can be dismantled easily. The existence of Spiritomb limits it though, but its ability to remove Pokemon that could otherwise be a major pain for your team gives it a nice role on most teams.
  14. mfhoundoom


    May 20, 2011
    I think that list of the pokes it can trap is why it's going to be banned at some point. That is a big deal. Taking out Slowking might be the biggest deal. Just look at a pokemon like Crawdaunt. It's 3 counters are right there. Obviously offensive teams check Crawdaunt relatively easily but still. I suppose the metagame with become more and more offensive. It's still going to be an extremely helpful poke to use for revenging and such.

    Also, Spiritomb is useful, but only in very certain circumstances. I only use him when I need a good spinblocker AND something to get rid of ghosts or psychics and such.
  15. deluge


    Sep 19, 2009
    Can she absorb a hit from Nidoqueen and KO? If not, certainly she should be able to revenge with STAB Psychic even if scarfed. Might be useful for defensive teams that are scared of the poison queen.
  16. PDC

    PDC this cruel thesis
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a defending World Cup of Pokemon champion

    Mar 18, 2010
    Been testing this guy ( girl ) and it really is a force to be reckoned with if played correctly. Choice Specs is by far the bests set to use, and it can be used to great extent of eliminating defensive walls that are in the way of a sweep through Pokemon such as Crawdaunt who literally gets all of it's defensive counters eliminated by the Specs set. I personally believe that Gothitelle is a bit strong for this tier thanks to it's great defenses and solid Special Offense. However, sometimes Gothitelle can preform very well, and sometimes it does nothing at all. It works great against defensive teams with prediction, but on offensive speedy teams it can simply be dead weight. Spiritomb and Absol both can debunk it easily with Pursuit, especially if it is trapped in Psychic or Psyshock, which is a huge downfall to it's typing.
  17. Aeroblacktyl

    Aeroblacktyl The pizza doesn't scream in the oven! LOL!
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL and WCoP Champion

    Feb 19, 2005
    Using U-Turn Accelgor off the bat straight into Scarf Gothitelle kind of gives that warm happy feeling of using Genesect->Chandelure in DW. Except here if you can catch one of the Hitmons or Cryo with U-Turn, it's gg with Scarf Gothitelle. From there on enjoy your Spike Stacking. Though I haven't exactly found the right combination of the other 4 Pokes with these two yet....
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