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Gothorita QC [3/3] GP [2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Joim, May 11, 2013.

  1. Joim

    Joim Navigate the pitfalls, cross the great divide!
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    This is the write-up.

    [Overview]

    <p>Gothorita's stats are mediocre even when using Eviolite, but it does have a specific niche in the metagame given by Shadow Tag, which enables it to support Pokemon by trapping and removing their counters. Gothorita can make use of its trapping ability to dispatch dangerous foes that threaten your team such as Alomomola, Seismitoad, Tangela, and Weezing. Gothorita can further harm the opposing team by setting up on a foe, and then proceed to dent their team with boosted attacks.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Calm Mind
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Calm Mind
    move 3: Psychic
    move 4: Toxic / Reflect / Thunderbolt
    ability: Shadow Tag
    nature: Bold
    evs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 84 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is Gothorita's main and most effective set. Psychic is the STAB move of choice, as it deals decent damage after a couple of Calm Minds; keep in mind that it's a tad weak before that. This set is mainly meant to set up on a Pokemon and sweep, but it can also be helpful for other Pokemon to revenge kill weakened Pokemon or eliminate a dangerous threat such as Sawk. Gothorita excels at setting up on and defeating most physical and special walls such as Weezing, Alomomola, Vileplume, non-Dragon Tail Lickilicky, Regice, Mantine, Gardevoir, and Audino. None of them can stop Gothorita from setting up and sweeping, but be wary of Probopass, as it will Volt Switch out of Gothorita. Once it has trapped the correct Pokemon, Gothorita can set up on it with Calm Mind, as well as heal with Rest when needed. Toxic allows Gothorita to slowly wear down walls such as Alomomola and Tangela while it sets up on them.</p>
    You can use Reflect in the fourth slot; with it and the given EV spread, you can survive 4 to 5 Crunches from Skuntank, which might help if your opponent predicts the Gothorita switch-in, enabling it to escape without taking much damage, nullifying Skuntank as a check. Reflect can also allow Gothorita to set up on other powerful physical attackers, such as Regirock or Piloswine, that would otherwise run over it. Reflect also helps Gothorita undertake the physical attackers that might switch in on after it defeats a Pokemon, such as Scolipede, which KOes Gothorita unless Reflect is active; however, thanks to Eviolite and Reflect, its non-Life Orb Megahorn will deal a puny 29.15 - 34.4% damage to Gothorita. It can also use Thunderbolt for additional coverage over Reflect and Toxic, as it helps with dealing with Alomomola faster and damages Psychic resists that aren't afraid of Toxic, such as Musharna.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The chosen EV spread allows it to outspeed Alomomola, which it can cripple with Toxic, kill with Thunderbolt, or set up on. Gothorita also has Rest to heal it of Alomomola's inflicted Toxics. This can also help it deal with Tangela, albeit with considerable difficulty, using Toxic to defeat it while Gothorita stacks Calm Minds and Rest to get its health back. Taunt can be used against support Pokemon, but Reflect will be a superior option. You can use Psyshock instead of Psychic as it hits Regice and non-Taunt Calm Mind Serperior harder. Gothorita can also use Sleep Talk in the fourth moveslot, which lets it make use of its sleeping turns, but it's a luck based choice that could go wrong, for instance choosing Rest twice in a row. It has also the huge downside of possibly KOing the Pokemon Gothorita is trying to set up on before Gothorita gets enough boosts.</p>

    <p>Good teammates for Gothorita are those that can deal with the threats that stop Gothorita from freely switching in or sweeping an entire team. Scolipede needs to be dealt with due to its magnificent Speed, so Misdreavus and Golurk make good partners. Additionally, Swellow, Sawk, Kangaskhan, and Pinsir appreciate Gothorita's ability to deal with the majority of NU's walls. Swords Dance Samurott enjoys Gothorita's company, as Gothorita traps Alomomola, Vileplume, Pelipper, and Mantine, all of whom plague Samurott.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Gothorita can use Energy Ball, Shadow Ball, and diverse Hidden Powers as coverage options, but Toxic and Thunderbolt are generally better. It can use an anti-hazards set of Taunt, Psychic, Grass Knot, and Hidden Power Ground with Eviolite and a nature and an EV spread of Modest, 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe to stop foes such as Golem, Regirock, Garbodor, Metang, Probopass, and Bastiodon from setting up hazards. The Speed EVs allow Gothorita to outspeed max Speed Golem and tie with standard Garbodor. Max Special Attack and a Modest nature guarantee a 2HKO on Regirock. Additionally, Gothorita can run a Choice Specs set with an EV spread of 172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe and a Modest nature, outspeeding Alomomola and Tangela. Gothorita can cripple several Pokemon with the combination of a Choice item and Trick. It can also run Hidden Power Ground to beat Bastiodon, Probopass, and Lairon, which allows Gothorita to support the myriad of Pokemon that are scared out by them. However, its main problem is that it doesn't hit hard enough even with Choice Specs, and Calm Mind will always be better.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>There are really no true counters due to Shadow Tag; the best you can do is guess when it's going to switch in and proceed to bring in your check. Scolipede can check Gothorita by hitting it hard with Megahorn, but fails to do much to Reflect variants. Reflect Gothorita will easily OHKO it then, as it can survive three hits from Scolipede's Megahorn. Skuntank can stop Gothorita from setting up thanks to Taunt, and it can also use Pursuit to weaken it even through Reflect so other teammates can break past it. If Gothorita is using the suggested spread and Reflect, its Pursuit won't damage Gothorita much, though. Choice Band Primeape with Punishment checks Gothorita well, as it can easily KO Gothorita after few boosts or predict the switch and U-turn out. In general, powerful physical attackers, such as Choice Band Braviary, can switch in after Gothorita defeats another Pokemon and hit it very hard if Reflect is not up.</p>

    Skeleton (open)

    This is a long overdue analysis, Gothorita has a special niche in trapping foes and being able even to defeat them.

    [Overview]

    Competes for a spot with other Psychic types and has far worse stats.
    Unique niche on trapping all kind foes, like Alomomola, to dispose of them for the team.
    Can beat other perilous walls as Tangela.
    Other than that it's a bit lackluster.
    Can be used as set up sweeper given a good team match up for it.

    [SET]
    name: Calm Mind
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Calm Mind
    move 3: Psychic
    move 4: Toxic / Reflect / Thunderbolt
    ability: Shadow Tag
    nature: Bold
    evs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 84 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    EV spread allows to outspeed Alomomola, which you can simply Rest off their Toxic and Toxic it to oblivion, and Tangela, which you might defeat with Toxic.
    Psychic is the STAB move of choice, allowing to deal decent damage after a couple of Calm Minds.
    Trapping the correct Pokemon, you can set up with Calm Mind and Rest, being virtually unvincible by your set-up fodder of choice.
    The combination of Toxic and Rest with the help of Calm Mind can deal with a lot of foes, including the troublesome Tangela.
    Don't use it until you've cleaned the team enough for it to set up and end the game.
    KOs Sawk with Psychic.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    It needs to set-up or else it's too weak. Puny SpA.
    This set is mainly meant to set up on a Pokemon and sweep, but it can be helpful for other Pokemon to revenge kill lower health mons or eliminate a threat such as Sawk.
    Gothorita excels at setting up on and defeating most physical and special walls such as Weezing, Alomomola, Vileplume, non-Dragoin Tail Lickilicky, Regice, Mantine, Gardevoir, and Audino.
    Probopass will Volt Switch out of Gothorita.
    Good teammates are those that can deal with the main threats that stop Gothorita freely switching in or sweeping an entire team. Scolipede needs to dealt with due to its magnificent speed, so Misdreavus and Golurk help deal with it.
    Swellow, Sawk, Kangaskhan, and Pinsir appreciate Gothorita's ability to deal with the aforementioned walls.
    Swords Dance Samurott enjoys Gothorita's company, as Gothorita traps Alomomola, Vileplume, Pelipper, and Mantine, all threats that plague Samurott.
    Toxic eases dealing with Tangela, which is still the hardest physical wall to trap. You can use Thunderbolt for additional coverage, too.
    You can use Reflect in the fourth slot. With Reflect and the given spread you can survive 4 to 5 hits from Skuntank's Crunch or Pursuit, which might help if you make the wrong switch in and your rival predicts you. You can also set up on other powerful physical attackers that otherwise run over you such as Regirock or Piloswine. Reflect also helps you undertake the physical attackers that might switch on Gothorita after it kills a Pokemon, such as Scolipede, which KOs Gothorita unless it has Reflect on. However, thanks to Eviolite and Reflect, non-Life Orb Megahorn will deal a puny 29.15 - 34.4%. It also lets Gothorita escape Skuntank without taking much damage. reats such as Braviary or Alomomola, while Taunt can be used against supporter Pokemon, but Reflect will be a superior option.
    You can use Psyshock instead of Psychic since you are going to rack up Calm Minds and it's a better move against Regice and non-Taunt CM Serperior.
    You can use Sleep Talk in your fourth slot, which lets you make use of your sleeping turns, but it's a luck based movement that could go wrong, like choosing Rest twice in a row. It has too the huge downside of possibly KOing the Pokemon you are trying to set-up on before you get enough boosts. Toxic allows it to beat Musharna 1v1 and wear down non-RestTalk Regice much faster.

    [Other Options]

    Gothorita can use Energy Ball, Shadow Ball, and diverse Hidden Powers as coverage options over Toxic or Thunderbolt, but these are generally better.
    You can use a Choice Specs set with a spread of 172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe and a Modest nature, outspeeding Alomomola and Tangela too. It can cripple several Pokemon with Trick, but its main problem is that it doesn't hit hard enough even with Specs and CM will be better always.
    You can use Choice Scarf with a spread of 88 HP / 252 SpA / 164 Spe to outspeed 90 base or 44 HP / 252 SpA / 208 Spe to outspeed base 85s with a positive speed, but the set is general subpar as it fails to outspeed even with max investment base 95s with a positive nature.
    You can use an anti hazards set with Eviolite and a spread of 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe with a Modest nature with the moves Taunt / Psychic / Grass Knot / Hidden Power Ground to avoid foes such as Golem, Regirock, Garbodor, Metang, Probopass, and Bastiodon to set up hazards. Speed outspeeds max speed Golem and ties with standard Garbodor. Max SpA and Modest nature guarantee a 2HKO on Regirock.

    [Checks and Counters]

    There are really no counters due to Shadow Tag, the best you can do is to guess its switch in to switch in your check.
    Scolipede can OHKO the less defensive variants, but it can be easily KO'd too. It will be faster in any case, though. Scolipede will fail to KO Calm Mind Gothorita and will barely hurt it behind Reflect. Reflect Gothorita will easily OHKO it then, as it can survive 3 hits from Scolipede's Megahorn.
    Skuntank. It can avoid taking damage thanks to Taunt and it can Pursuit it to weaken it even on Reflect so other teammates can break past it.
    CB Primeape Punishment checks Gothorita well, as it can easily KO Gothorita with it after few boosts or predict the switch and U-turn out denting it.

    Last edited: Aug 6, 2013
  2. steviestar

    steviestar

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    You can trick away choice items and set up to +6 with what? There's no boosting move listed on that set. Not that Calm Mind is a good idea without eviolite + rest anyway.

    Scarf signal beam does like 20% max to standard Skuntank so good luck with that. Thunderbolt is a slightly better option but even then it's not going to do much. I just wouldn't mention Skuntank at all on that set, there's really nothing you can do to get around him if he comes out while Goth is in.

    Also minimize is banned in everything except ubers.
  3. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    A Choice Specs set and Choice Scarf set play completely differently, so they should probably be separated. One is a wallbreaker (albiet a pretty weak one), and one is a revenge killer, and really the only similarity is that they are choice sets and have the same moves. Considering CS Gothorita probably wants to run maximum speed to attempt to outspeed Choice Band Sawk (which it probably does outspeed, though idr Gothitoria's speed), even the EVs and general roles are different.

    Also, where are the partners on each of the sets that help out Gothorita? Or, rather, what Pokemon appreciate Gothorita's ability to trap and defeat certain opponents?

    Also, mention how you can't really "counter" Gothorita due to Shadow Tag. Speaking of Checks and Counters, it is really lacking and a bit iffy - how is Scolipede #1 when it can't take a Psychic, and how is Primeape in there over, like, anything when Primeape probably is one of the weakest checks to Gothorita in the game, as its U-Turn probably can't OHKO and it can't take a Psychic. Ninjask also doesn't really ever U-turn, but X-Scissor does destroy Gothorita anyway.

    I have never used Gothorita so I can't provide anything specific but I wanted to point these things out.
  4. Joim

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    Yeah steviestar, I don't know what I was thinking about Drifblim, just put the first thing I could think of since I wrote this fast before I forget to put the thread up. Sorry about the mess, I've written it better now. Separated the sets too, the thing is that three sets are still similar and achieve their goals in the same way, trapping a weak foe that's usually a set-up sweeper or a supporting mon to either kill it or set up on it.

    Scolipede is always faster and OHKOs it:
    252 Atk Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite (custom): 272-324 (83.95 - 100%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO
    Ninjask utterly destroys Gothorita, yeah.
    I needed U-turn examples, so Primeape can always U-turn out of Gothorita without taking damage, since Primeape is often scarfed and will outspeed.

    Edit: OK, my mind's kinda dry, so I'll think of more examples for everything.
  5. Rohail

    Rohail Vaporeon <3
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    Gothorita has other coverage options such as Dark Pulse, Energy Ball, Shadow Ball, and various Hidden Powers. May want to mention that in AC or OO.
    Also, you could mention a set consisting of support moves such as Heal Bell, Magic Coat, Thunder Wave and Gravity in OO.
  6. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    Shadow Tag Goth currently cannot get Dark Pulse due to it being an Egg move. For some reason Goth doesn't learn it via move tutor. Weird I know.
  7. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
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    For the RestCM set, mention that it can also run a more defensive EV spread by moving those SAtk EVs into Defense or Special Defense (or even a mix of both). In AC or OO you should also add in Reflect and Sleep Talk, since both are excellent option for that last slot. Goth's main job, imo, is really to trap walls for your sweepers, so having more bulk and/or the ability to do something during Sleep turns can be invaluable. While hardly amazing, Bold max Def/HP Goth can use Reflect to always live a Pursuit (or Crunch) from Skuntank on switch out after a Rest (252 Atk Life Orb Skuntank (+Atk) Crunch vs 252 HP/252 Def Eviolite Gothorita (+Def) : 27.78% - 33.33% (3-4 hits to KO) with Reflect up).

    For teammates, you can mention that Goth excels at setting up on and removing certain physical walls like Tangela, Weezing, Alomomola, and Vileplume, making physical sweepers like Swellow, Sawk, Kangaskhan, and Pinsir good options. The same can be said for many Special walls (non-DTail Lickilicky, Regice, Mantine, Gardevoir and Audino come to mind).
  8. Joim

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    I edited the OP, thanks for the input :>
  9. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    I would definitely say Eviolite CM should be the only set on this analysis. Maybe a mention of Choice Specs (again maybe...) in Other Options, but Scarf shouldn't even exist. Gothorita is better off with a Physically Defensive spread of 248 HP / 176 Def / 84 Spe with Bold. 84 Spe is still for outspeeding Alomomola and Tangela, but 248 HP with 176 Def is superior to 252 HP and 172 Def due to 176 Def being a stat jump point. (Basically 172 Def gives you 240 in the stat and 176 Def gives you 242 instead of 241)

    The set should look like this now:

    [SET]
    name: Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Rest
    move 3: Psychic
    move 4: Sleep Talk / Toxic
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Shadow Tag
    nature: Bold
    evs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 84 Spe

    • Mention how Sleep Talk lets you make use of your sleeping turns, but has the downside of potentially KOing the Pokemon you're setting up on before you set up all the way.

    • Mention that Toxic allows it to beat Musharna 1v1 and wear down non-RestTalk Regice much faster.

    • Add Psyshock to AC to allow Gothorita to wear down Regice faster while beating non-Taunt Calm Mind Serperior much easier.

    • Add Reflect to AC as a move that can be used over Sleep Talk and Toxic. Reflect allows Gothorita to set up on even some decently powerful attackers like Regirock, Piloswine, and the like. Reflect also gives Gothorita some assurance against physical attackers after it KOes the trapped Pokemon. This makes Gothorita a juggernaut after a few Calm Minds for a few turns. Life Orb Scolipede's Megahorn does less than half and pretty everything weaker than that does pathetic damage. It also allows Gothorita to escape Skuntank without taking much damage. Putting a lot of emphasis on this for the write-up would be nice.

    • Remove Signal Beam from Other Options. Toxic is a better choice for beating Musharna and since Gothorita is really weak it won't be winning any CM wars vs Duosion or Gardevoir. That and Duo and Gardy are not as relevant in the metagame.

    • Remove the thing about it 2HKOing Rotom-A

    • Add Swords Dance Samurott as a good partner because all of its counters just so happen to be trapped by Gothorita (Alomomola, Vileplume, Pelipper, Mantine)

    • Remove what you have currently in Other Options and make a brief mention of Choice Specs. Summarizing what you have written down currently should be fine. Make sure to mention why it's not a very good set.

    • In C&C Remove the thing you have about Scolipede. Instead say that Scolipede is a good check to Gothorita, but can be beaten by Reflect Gothorita after a few Calm Minds.

    • Mention that Skuntank can avoid taking any damage from it and get off some Pursuits to weaken it so that other teammates can break past it.

    • Remove what you have about U-turners. Ninjask isn't relevant and Primeape's U-turn does hardly any damage even without a Reflect up. Do add however that Choice Band Primeape with Punishment can check Gothorita really well as it can either KO it with Punishment after enough boosts or predict the switch and U-turn out.

    • I don't think the thing about anything that can set up on it and Baton Pass should be on there. Since you choose what you can trap you won't have to face a 1v1 vs a set up BP mon. If they decide to come in on you after you KO the trapped mon chances after you will have a lot of Calm Minds and they won't be able to freely set up against you.

    Do everything here and I'll QC stamp this later.
  10. Joim

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    I wanted to wait for some more input, but oh, well. I'd like more QC members and other fellow NUers to comment on this too.

    I agree on everything I don't mention, but:
    I'm putting Toxic / Sleep Talk because as Zeb said (and I agree with), it helps get you over mons such as Tangela which you can't beat with Sleep Talk. Also as you mention it's better for mushy and non-sleep talk Regice, less unpredictable and less luck based, so I'll go for a more competitive set.

    Regarding Scolipede, it can only be beaten by Gothorita if it switches in once Gothorita has set up Reflect, in which case you deserve to get it KOd for playing badly:
    252 Atk Scolipede Megahorn vs. 248 HP / 176+ Def Eviolite (custom) through Reflect: 178-211 (60.95 - 72.26%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    Otherwise:
    252 Atk Scolipede Megahorn vs. 248 HP / 176+ Def Eviolite (custom): 356-422 (121.91 - 144.52%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    Also:
    252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Megahorn vs. 248 HP / 176+ Def Eviolite (custom) through Reflect: 231-274 (79.1 - 93.83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    I'll give you this, though:
    0 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Megahorn vs. 248 HP / 176+ Def Eviolite (custom) through Reflect: 179-212 (61.3 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    That means that it's only feasible without hazards and at full health, though.

    That's using a defensive set that has more the offensive power of an inanimate rock. Other than that, Scolipede will always defeat Gothorita unless it misses, since it's even faster than Choice Scarf variants. No one should switch their Scolipede into Gothorita, the only chance is if they switch it in and in that turn you use Reflect.

    Also, I feel really strongly about leaving the Choice Specs set. Imho, Gothorita's main niche, over being a set-up sweeper (which Musharna does better bar Shadow Tag), is being able to trap a threat to your team and weaken it, or revenge kill easily. That is achieved by Choice sets, which can also ruin pshysical attackers with Specs, and set-up sweepers and support mons by either Choice item tricked.

    Besides that, I've updated the OP.
  11. Hollywood

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    Well, they can't switch in their Scolipedes anyways--Gothorita has Shadow Tag. :v

    Anyways, I pretty much agree with everyone who is mentioning that the Choice Scarf set is generally a poor choice. It doesn't hit hard at all, and I feel like, for the most part, the defensive Calm Mind set does a better (albeit much more lengthy) job at revenge killing. Since most of the time, you'll want to use Gothorita more as a supporting Pokemon who can clear the opponent's team of their walls for your sweepers to prosper anyways, I would supporting axing the Scarf set altogether.

    Also, under Calm Mind AC and Choice Scarf AC (assuming the Choice Scarf set does go on-site), you call it Gothitelle rather than Gothorita.
    '
    Otherwise, I think it looks pretty good. [:
  12. ebeast

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    Your calcs aren't receiving the boost from Eviolite because you made it using the custom mon feature on Honko's calc. The calcs of it vs Scolipede are:

    • 252Atk Scolipede (Neutral) Megahorn vs 248HP/176Def Eviolite Gothorita (+Def) behind a Reflect: 31% - 37% (102 - 120 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO

    • 252Atk Scolipede (Neutral) Megahorn vs 248HP/176Def Eviolite Gothorita (+Def): 61% - 73% (200 - 236 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO

    • 252Atk Life Orb Scolipede (Neutral) Megahorn vs 248HP/176Def Eviolite Gothorita (+Def) behind a Reflect: 40% - 48% (132 - 156 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO

    The reason I mentioned Scolipede is because by the time you have trapped something and gotten a few Calm Mind up Scolipede's Megahorn is one of the strongest moves that can be used against Gothorita. The fact that Life Orb Megahorn does less than half after a Reflect is emphasis for how well it can take hits against everything else with that move.

    Like Treecko said Scolipede can not switch into Gothorita due to Shadow Tag. The way you're getting that Reflect up is by using your set-up fodder that can't hurt you much to get that bad boy up before you take it down. What are people's usual responses to to a Calm Mind boosted Gothorita? Skuntank or hitting it hard with physical attackers. Well with Reflect up Skuntank does a poor 22-27% with a full-powered Pursuit and those physical attackers won't be dealing that much damage either as shown by how well it can take LO Megahorn.

    I'm fine with it being slashed as Toxic/Sleep Talk. Also change Calm Mind's nature to Bold, you left it as Modest. Also change the set name from RestCM to Calm Mind. Although the thing about Toxic allowing you to beat Tangela easier compared to Sleep Talk isn't really true since you have Calm Mind to start dishing massive damage with Psychic. Sleep Talk allows you to make move while you sleep so Leech Seed isn't hurting you fast enough.

    Choice Scarf should be 100% removed and not even mentioned, it is simply not viable whatsoever. This also includes removing it as a slash from the Choice set. Rename it to Choice Specs for now. I'll let other QC members look at it before removing it, but my QC Reject for that set still stands and I believe it should have a mention in OO instead.

    The thing about Gothorita's niche as a trapper is that while it's true that the main reason to use it is to take down key threats, the Eviolite set just simply has more utility all around. Since it actually has bulk to speak of it can switch into more things and do more than just trap and remove a Pokemon. It can provide a good switch into Sawk while at the same time actually posing a threat by setting up. While Specs has more immediate power, a base 75 Special Attack is still not impressive whatsoever.

    Anyways there are still things that can be changed on this:

    • Calm Mind AC: Skuntank's Crunch and by extension full-powered Pursuit is actually a 4-5HKO. (behind Reflect)
    • Calm Mind AC: Scolipede's most common set doesn't run Life Orb. A 252 Atk Megahorn does only 31-37% to Gothorita after Reflect.

    If other QCers decide that Specs is fine to keep on the analysis, then might as well fix it up for now.

    • Choice Specs: Change EV spread to 172 HP / 252 SpA /84 Spe. Speed for Alomomola and pals.
    • Choice Specs Set Comments: Again remove any mention of Scarf.
    • Choice Specs AC: Remove mention of Scarf and add things more relevant to Choice Specs like other moves it can use.
    • Choice Specs AC:You don't really have to include the it fails to OHKO Alomomola without Stealth Rock part. You're beating it regardless because it can't Toxic and Wish stall you and like you said Specs's role is just to break a wall a die.

    • Choice Scarf: Remove it

    • Other Options: Extremely barren right now. If Specs stays then remove everything you have on there right now. If it gets removed then remove what you have and talk about Specs. Either way add an Anti-hazards Eviolite set with Taunt / Psychic / Grass Knot / Hidden Power Ground to prevent Stealth Rock from the like of Golem, Regirock, Garbodor, Metang, Probopass, Bastiodon etc. Evs for that: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe with Modest nature. Speed outspeeds max speed Golem and ties with standard Garbodor. With max SpA and Modest Grass Knot is a guaranteed 2HKO on Regirock.

    • Checks & Counters: Remove the thing about Goth being capable of KOing Scolipede if it misses Megahorn. Things like that that involve misses don't belong on analyses.

    Do all of this pls.
  13. Joim

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    Honko's calculator does take into account Eviolite for custom calcs :S I've ran it again and maybe it was a problem with switching custom with Eviolite, now I get this:
    Eviolite:
    252 Atk Scolipede Megahorn vs. 248 HP / 176+ Def Eviolite Gothitelle through Reflect: 100-118 (29.15 - 34.4%) -- 4.44% chance to 3HKO
    No Eviolite:
    252 Atk Scolipede Megahorn vs. 248 HP / 176+ Def Eviolite Gothitelle: 200-236 (58.3 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Anyways, I've edited the whole analysis and after running some calcs, I agree, Choice Scarf is just sub-par.

    Regarding misses, I removed it, but accuracy is part of strategy and an important part. This is a very luck based game compared to other rpgs, so mentioning to people who want to learn that Megahorn's accuracy is rather shaky should be ok.
  14. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    There is still one line on the Specs set mentioning Scarf that should be removed and the EV spread for Specs should be 172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe. After that this should be all good.

    [qc]1/3[/qc]
  15. Joim

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    Fixed, as always, thanks for your input, EBeast :)
  16. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...

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    I'm finishing school in a week so I'll qc this after that, but I'd want to put emphasis on what whiteDmist said about specialy defensive gothorita. I've used such a set a lot in this meta with toxic over CM and I personaly prefer it to the one listed. The fact you aren't trying to sweep with it makes it more versatile and psychic takes on poison types that are immune to toxic (not steels, but CM variant isn't hurting most steels anyway). I'd like this to be at least mentioned in ac of the first set if not to be a completely independant set.

    I'd also want to specify that tangela is a pain to trap and we would have to test how well physicaly defensive goth does, because the combination of leech seed + knock off or sleep powder can be fatal considering tangela gets the first move for free (therefore can put you to sleep without you resting). You'll also calm mind extremly slowly vs tangela meaning it will have at least 8-9 turns to crit you with giga drain and probably kill you (and you'll probably be no higher than +2).

    I'll add more details about this and what else needs to be changed next week

    400th post :)
  17. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken is it true what they say, that words are weapons?
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    i strongly dislike the use of sleep talk on this set. apart from alleviating the chances of you getting crit on sleeping turns, what does it do..? you can have alternate coverage in thunderbolt which allows you to not have to be forced out immediately by skuntank / liepard, or you can have utility in reflect / toxic. sleep talk doesn't do anything for you apart from randomly decide your moves for you while you're sleeping (is it that big of an issue, when even things like crits from alomomola don't come anywhere near breaking through goth?) and pseudo-lower your chance of being crit.

    toxic alleviates the difficulty of trapping tangela slightly, but yes it's still worth mentioning that it's much harder to "trap" than any other given physical walls (also, worth mentioning that probopass can volt switch out of it).
  18. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    Yeah Zeb I totally see your point on Sleep Talk. I personally really like using Reflect Gothi and I have messed around with Toxic before which was cool. When you guys get to QC checking it yourselves I think the the 2 main things to address should be:

    • Should we have Toxic / Reflect slashed in move 4 with Sleep Talk as an AC mention?
    • Should we keep Choice Specs as a set?

    Like I've said I would be in favor of the former and I've already expressed my opinions on the latter.
  19. Joim

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    I've updated the OP, having the fourth move as Toxic / Reflect / Thunderbolt and listing Sleep Talk as an option. I also stated that Tangela is hard to defeat anyways and Probopass volt switches out.
  20. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken is it true what they say, that words are weapons?
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    I don't know what the specific purpose is with Choice Specs. Yes, it can cripple some stuff with Trick, but what in particular do you cripple that the boosting set doesn't beat? Are there any examples of Pokemon that would be better to trick Specs onto than to simply boost up? I mean, sure you can trick Specs onto Alomomola and kill with Thunderbolt, but that's not nearly as advantageous as being able to trap and kill it and then have a +6/+6 Gothorita for your opponent to have to deal with. I guess I don't understand the advantages of using Choice Specs instead of the standard set (remember that Toxic beats all Pokemon that set up alongside you apart from like Klang or something, too!). The lack of commentary outside of "same as CM" is also indicative that it doesn't really do much for a team that CM doesn't already do...

    I'd like to have it removed (and put in OO) unless you have a really compelling argument to keep it. If so, then this is

    [qc]2/3[/qc]
  21. Joim

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    Okay, moved Specs to OO along Scarf, I'll write this up as soon as I've dealt with Drifblim :p
  22. tennisace

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    Is this ready for a final check? Joim your last post mentions writing something but I'm not sure if you mean the actual analysis or another part of the skeleton. It's also been a week since you last posted itc.
  23. Joim

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    I had to make the whole write up for the final QC check. Sorry it's taken long, between PS stuff, the long DDoS, and The Smog stuff I have been really busy, lol. But now it's ready!
  24. ebeast

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    [Overview]
    • I would like the Overview to be more straight facts than anything. Remove the first 4 sentences and just straight up say something in the lines of: "Gothorita has mediocre stats even with Eviolite, but with Shadow Tag has the ability to support Pokemon by trapping and removing their counters." Go from there.

    • Add more Pokemon than just Alomomola. Add Tangela, Seismitoad, and Weezing to this.

    • Remove the last sentence. Mention that Gothorita's role in NU is its ability to support Pokemon by removing some of their counters from the game. Also add that it can also use Shadow Tag to set up on Pokemon and cause additional harm to the opponents team than just trapping a counter, but don't use the word sweep here since it's not a sweeper.

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Talking about Reflect and Thunderbolt belong here in the Set Comments not in Additional Comments. Move those mentions over to here. Make absolutely sure to point out the benefits to both of them, especially Reflect. Include the Scolipede and Skunk doing piss damage here for that.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Remove mention of Reflect and Thunderbolt from here, they belong in Set Comments. You should redo this section to just just talk about what Pokemon Gothorita supports and how it supports them (Mentioning what Pokemon it traps would be one way)

    • While moving/removing things, make sure that you don't remove or move the mention of Taunt. That does belong in Additional Comments and should be talked about as to why it is a viable option on Gothorita. Also mention why it is not the main option.

    [Other Options]
    • Remove the mention of Scarf Gothorita. That set was removed, but it was not meant to receive a mention whatsoever.

    • The mention of the anti-hazards set should go before Choice Specs as it has more utility than simply trapping a partner's counters.

    [Checks and Counters]
    • Change up the mention of Scolipede in here. The 2nd, 3rd, and 4th sentences can simply be replaced by saying: Scolipede can check Gothorita by hitting it hard with Megahorn, but against Reflect variants it fails to do as much significant damage.

    You should look over the analysis and fix some errors. Restructure some sentences and fix Pokémon to Pokemon. Once you do so I'll look over this again.
  25. panamaxis

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    Musharna (CM psychic moonlight heal bell) is the main one, since otherwise you're forced into a crit war and musharna has the advantage because you have to rest (because of toxic being synchronised back, musharna has more attacking chances).

    I used specs, although it was back in the amoongus meta but it was great then when I wanted to beat/cripple musharna on top of doing everything that normal amoongus does. Tricking specs to it was fine since it wasn't really a threat when it was choiced. Small niche but it was definitely worth using over the normal set on that particular team.

    Specs hp ground wrecks bastiodon / probopass / lairon too which the normal set sucks hard against. Specs GK also wrecks regirock. It can be useful on swellow teams.

    I'd reconsider putting the specs set back on site. It has a small niche but imo it's enough to get an analysis.

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