Gourgeist-XL

MZ

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QC: Raiza, Scorpdestroyer, GrimoireGod
GP: Snobalt, P Squared

[Overview]

Gourgeist-XL is a defensive staple in the PU metagame thanks to its excellent typing, movepool, and stats. It can check or counter many of the metagame's premier offensive Pokemon such as Golem, Carracosta, and Torterra, and it has the added benefit of Ghost typing, which allows it to work as a spinblocker. However, Gourgeist-XL is fairly slow and faces competition from fellow defensive Grass-types including Torterra, Tangela, and Quilladin, especially due to its lack of access to entry hazards, and its unique Ghost / Grass typing leaves it weak to the common Dark-, Fire- and Ice-type attacks in the tier. Nevertheless, Gourgeist-XL has a solid niche as an easy catch-all on balanced and defensive teams due to its higher mixed bulk than other Grass-types and access to Will-O-Wisp and Foul Play.

[set]
name: Defensive
move 1: Will-O-Wisp
move 2: Synthesis
move 3: Seed Bomb
move 4: Foul Play
item: Leftovers
ability: Frisk
nature: Impish
evs: EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[Set Comments]
Moves
========
Will-O-Wisp can spread burns around to cripple opposing teams. Synthesis is a reliable recovery move that keeps Gourgeist-XL healthy throughout the game. Seed Bomb serves as Gourgeist-XL's main STAB move and allows it to check Water-types such as Poliwrath more consistently, while Foul Play punishes physical attackers and allows Gourgeist to hit foes that resist Seed Bomb, such as Rapidash, for neutral damage.

Set Details
========

Maximum HP and Defense EVs with an Impish nature are used to make Gourgeist-XL as physically bulky as possible. Gourgeist-XL holds Leftovers to give it extra passive recovery, while Frisk is used to scout out the opposing team's items.

Usage Tips
========

While Gourgeist-XL is capable of countering many of the metagame's premier attackers, its defensive prowess makes it an obvious switch-in, so be careful of constantly bringing Gourgeist-XL into the same situations in case of a double switch to a Pokemon that can take Gourgeist-XL on more effectively. Gourgeist-XL should spread burns as much as possible, but it should also be careful of Pokemon with Guts and Flash Fire, which can get a free switch in and hit hard with their boosted attacks. Gourgeist-XL can also block Rapid Spin due to its Ghost typing, so bringing it in on common spinners such as Armaldo can keep entry hazards on the field. Make sure that Gourgeist-XL stays healthy throughout the match by using Synthesis, as it needs to stay at higher health to take strong physical attacks such as a +2 Life Orb Stone Edge from Carracosta. In addition, beware of switching it into common Water-types simply due to type advantage, as nearly all offensive Water-types carry Ice Beam and can do significant damage to Gourgeist-XL on the switch. Make sure to scout out sets before blindly switching in Gourgeist-XL, as some Pokemon can carry moves that can cripple it on the switch in, such as defensive Carracosta with Toxic.

Team Options
========

Gourgeist-XL's unique Ghost / Grass typing gives it incredible synergy with most of PU's non-Grass-type defensive staples. Poliwrath can take on Dark- and Fire-types such as Pawniard and Rapidash, while Gourgeist-XL can take the Electric- and Grass-type attacks aimed at Poliwrath, although they're both weak to Flying-type moves. Probopass can cover Flying-types such as Dodrio as well as check Fire-types and trap Pawniard with Magnet Pull, while Gourgeist-XL can cover Probopass's Ground and Fighting weaknesses. Grumpig is a useful teammate for Gourgeist-XL, as it can counter the metagame's most threatening Ice-types and give Gourgeist-XL Heal Bell support in case of stray status, though running Grumpig comes at the cost of adding on a second Dark-type weakness. Gourgeist-XL also works well with common entry hazard setters such as Piloswine and Stunfisk, as it can cover their weaknesses to Grass- and Water-type moves as well as keep their Stealth Rock on the field by spinblocking. Gourgeist-XL also appreciates entry hazard removal by Pokemon such as Togetic and Pelipper, as a lack of entry hazards makes it much easier for Gourgeist-XL to constantly switch into strong physical attackers and the removal of Toxic Spikes can prevent Gourgeist-XL from being crippled by status.

[Strategy Comments]
Other Options
=============

Gourgeist-XL can run offensive sets such as Choice Band with Trick due to its solid Attack and good physical movepool. It also has the option of running Leech Seed and Protect over Seed Bomb and Synthesis as well as Rocky Helmet over Leftovers to rack up more residual damage and passive recovery, though this set loses offensive presence, is easily walled, and is set up on by more Pokemon depending on which move it uses. Rock Slide can also be used to hit most of Gourgeist-XL's common Ice- and Fire-type switch-ins for super effective damage. Phantom Force can be used as a stronger STAB move, although it can also be easily taken advantage of on the charging turn, while Shadow Sneak gives Gourgeist-XL priority to pick off weakened threats but is very weak. Toxic is an option over Will-O-Wisp, although burns are generally more useful for Gourgeist-XL to neuter physical attackers. Magic Coat is also a surprise option to reflect back entry hazards and status, but Gourgeist-XL generally misses the lost moveslot. Gourgeist-XL is also an effective Trick Room setter due to its low Speed and high bulk. An EV spread of 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD and a Careful nature can also be used but is not as effective due to Gourgeist-XL's low Special Defense and competition from Roselia.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Fire-types**: Fire-types such as Rapidash, Ninetales, and Torkoal are immune to Gourgeist-XL's Will-O-Wisp and take little damage from Seed Bomb, although Rapidash has to be careful about switching into Foul Play. Torkoal and Ninetales can use Gourgeist-XL for setup fodder and can threaten to OHKO or 2HKO it with their super effective STAB moves.

**Ice-types**: PU's special Ice-types such as Rotom-F and Regice are able to switch in freely on Gourgeist-XL to threaten it out and are not crippled offensively by burns, although Aurorus should be wary of switching in on Seed Bomb. While physical Ice-types such as Beartic are threatening to Gourgeist when given a free switch in, they can be crippled by burns and take much more from Foul Play.

**Status**: Burn and poison constantly wear down Gourgeist, making it much more difficult for it to effectively wall Pokemon and recover lost health.

**Roselia**: Roselia takes little damage from either of Gourgeist-XL's offensive moves and has Natural Cure, which can heal burns and stop it from being permanently crippled. It can use Gourgeist-XL as a free setup opportunity to lay Spikes or Toxic Spikes, which also hinder Gourgeist-XL's effectiveness by making it more difficult for Gourgeist-XL to switch into strong physical attackers and poisoning it.

**Pokemon with Guts or Flash Fire**: Guts and Flash Fire users such as Machoke and Rapidash can take advantage of Gourgeist-XL's use of Will-O-Wisp to potentially get a boost on the switch. However, Rapidash has to be careful about switching into a Foul Play and Machoke has trouble beating Gourgeist-XL without the Guts boost, especially if it gets hit by Leech Seed.

**Taunt, Substitute, and Encore**: These three moves can hinder Gourgeist-XL by stopping it from using its support moves, taking advantage of its non-damaging moves to get up a free Substitute, or locking it into an ineffective move. Common Pokemon such as Grumpig and Chatot can take advantage of Gourgeist-XL's reliance on non-attacking moves.

**Magic Guard**: Pokemon with Magic Guard such as Duosion and Clefairy can use Gourgeist-XL as a free opportunity to set up Calm Mind and Stealth Rock, respectively, because of their immunity to burn damage and high enough bulk to easily take any of Gourgeist-XL's offensive moves.
 
Last edited:

Anty

let's drop
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I really dont think full trick room is viable enough for it to deserve a whole set as it is such a niche playstyle - especially with kecleon being banned

any input is welcome
 

MZ

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Yeah, I'm gonna remove that and start getting it checked once I get off mobile
 

Anty

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This needs a lot of work to get through QC as it is really lacking in detail.
For example, you say in team options:
'Fire, ice and flying resists'. Instead of just that, you should actually list them. Here is what i wrote in my Raichu analysis:
'Ice-types such as Sneasel and Aurorus are greatly appreciated as they can take out Ground- and Grass-type Pokemon, and in return, Raichu beats Water-types.'

That is much clearer and it actually suggests Pokemon which work well with it.

I understand that this is your first analysis so feel free to look at others to see how you can expand on points. The knowledge is obviously there, but you need to expand on points and make this much more easier for new users to utilise.

Megazard Z
 

WhiteDMist

Path>Goal
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Adding on to what Any said, you don't need to write a dissertation for every point either, especially in a skeleton format. However, the write up does require more detail, so having the points at least explain what you have in mind will make less work for everyone involved (you also have to do less work when writing up if your points are already detailed).

Remove priority from Overview, Shadow Sneak in in OO. Add in more about its role, rather than about its bulk and typing.

Fix the formatting for the EVs and properly space the items. Rock Slide in Moves imo. Nice to hit Flying types and Ninetales, though not really slashworthy. Will-O-Wisp is probably better off first as it is the most crippling move, Synthesis second, Leech Seed third.

"Other bulky Pokemon" is definitely not ok for Team Options. Be somewhat more specific, and give examples as well.

OO needs: Magic Coat, Toxic, and possibly Phantom Force.

C&C needs to be ordered by threat level. While somewhat subjective, the order should be: Taunt, Fire-types (especially Torkoal, which can also spin against it by threatening it out), Magic Guard, Guts, Knock Off, Status, Special Ice-types, Substitute users, and Flying & Dark-types.
 

MZ

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Sorry it's been a while, implemented changes. Please tell me if any of my bullets are still too short
 

Anty

let's drop
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Defensive
########
name: Defensive
move 1: Will-o-Wisp
move 2: Synthesis
move 3: Seed Bomb
move 4: Foul Play
ability: Frisk
item: Leftovers
evs: EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
nature: Impish

This + leech seed in moves i think should be the set as seed bomb in important for checking water types (breaking sub of poli!) and wearing down pokes like throh
It has synthesis for recovery now and i dont think rocky helmet is too worth it (maybe a mention in set details) as leftovers put less pressure on the 8PP synthesis and a lot of the pokes gourg switches into dont contact (eg torterra)

Megazard Z
 

MZ

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Anty Moved rocky helmet into other options and slashed seed bomb with both leech seed and foul play, as I don't think removing leech seed entirely makes sense.
 

Anty

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Anty Moved rocky helmet into other options and slashed seed bomb with both leech seed and foul play, as I don't think removing leech seed entirely makes sense.
Removing does make sense for the reasons i stated, ie you virtually need seed bomb if you want to check the best poke in the tier (a valid reason to use gourgeist), leech seed is the most expendable move as you already have recovery, and honestly a lot of the time i would rather burn on the switch than leech seed as it wont go. Leech seed should be moved to moves as it doesnt really do much to help the set, while seed bomb really does
 

Anty

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You can still expand upon some points. You say 'Faces competition from Quilladin and Roselia', but you should also add on why you would use gourgeist over these pokes
UT looks quite bare, you should specifically say to switch into physical attackers, and you can also make points about being careful around pokes like poliwrath who can bop you with a toxic/ice beam

Rocky helmet is mentioned in set details and oo, IMO you should just remove it from set details as leftovers is very important for passive recovery.

Megazard Z
 

Raiza

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suggestions for you, feel free to follow them or not

Overview
########

Mention that Gourgeist-Super has a really high Atk for a Pokemon that bulky, as this, along with Foul Play, helps to not be setup fodder differently from other walls
I wouldn't say it's typing it's bad since it gives Gourgeist-Super a resistance to common types such as Ground, Water, and Grass and Ghost typing also makes it a spinblocker with its immunity to Normal and a check to Poliwrath, that also relates to the last point when you say it's weak to common attackers.
Gourgeist-Super doesn't face competition from Quilladin because they have a slight different role, I think Tangela and Torterra and other defensive spinblockers such as bulky Misdreavus would be more appropriate to cite.

Moves
========

Specify that Leech Seed also gives Gourgeist-Super another source of recovery
''Seed bomb can better counter waters and rack up damage vs Throh'' Seed Bomb doesn't really ''counter'' Water-type Pokemon, it just helps to bring them down after Gourgeist- Super switches in, also mention it hits Ground- and Rock-types for high damage too and remove the part when you talk about Throh, I would rather switch out against a Throh since Gourgeist-Super can't really bring it down
Synthesis should be listed as Gourgeist-Super more reliable recovery even if it only has 8 PP

Set Details
========

Remove Rocky Helmet as Anty already said, it isn't that useful because Gourgeist-Super already has a lot of way to wear down foes(Will-O-Wisp, Leech Seed, decent atk)

Usage Tips
========

That relates to the Throh part, mention that Gourgeist-Super should switch out against Knock Off users, especially Throh, if it doesn't want to get its item knocked off without solving much


Megazard Z
 

MZ

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More updates from Anty's and Raiza.'s feedback. Beefed up most of these points, hopefully this is more explanatory.
 

Raiza

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Remove banned Pokemon mentions.

Overview
########
You give a lot of informations there but they are an end in themselves, instead expand them, for example yeah Gourgeist-XL has a great physical bulk, and that ables it to be a great physical wall. Yeah Gourgeist-XL has a great attack for a defensive Pokemon, and that ables it to deal better with the Pokemon it checks(list). Yeah Gourgeist-XL has a decent defensive move pool in moves such as Will-O-Wisp, that makes it an option over other Grass-types you listed... you have to elaborate these and other points much better if you want a stamp.
When you talk about spinblocking too, it is a consequence of its dual typing along with being weak to some common types too so mention that, other than possibly merge these points together. We all know Gourgeist-XL is slow, what comports being slow specifically?
Countering common threats, which you also have to list, is a consequence of its high bulk so merge these two points.

Defensive
########
Moves
========
We know Will-O-Wisp burns physical attacker, but what are the consequences, why it is used, why it's worth a moveslot?
Mention that Seed Bomb is Gourgeist-XL main STAB and attacking tool as Foul Play isn't always reliable, especially against special attackers if needed.

Set Details
========
You miss out Frisk, talk about it.
I'm not really sure about the spread but it's ok for now other QC's will probably give their input.

Usage Tips
========
You don't talk about one of the main reasons about Gourgeist-XL, it's ability to block rapid spin, please mention this along with reasoning, when it's safe to switch and when it's not.
I never saw a Toxic Poliwrath so I'm not too sure about that, and Knock Off doesn't trouble Gourgeist-XL much as it still has Synthesis and sometimes Leech Seed too to make up for Leftovers loss.
Talk about when it's better to fire off an attacking move or Leech Seed, and why Gourgeist-XL should take possible free turns to recover.

Team Options
========
List common spikes setters and talk about stealth rock setters too when you mention hazard stacking teams.
Add Pokemon that make use of the utility and spinblocking provided by Gourgeist-XL, there are a lot of possible things to write so I want that part beefy.

Checks & Counters
########
Fix formatting, categories should go in a **name**, I suggest you looking at other analysis.
As I already said Knock Off users aren't really checks neither counters, as Gougeist-XL won't take a lot of damage from it thanks to its high physical bulk, isn't troubled by the loss of Lefties because of Synthesis and possible Leech Seed to still recover up damage, and Knock Off is really risky if not used on the Gourgeist-XL switch-in as the user can get burned therefore becomes nearly useless.

You still have to work on this a lot and expand points
Megazard Z
 

scorpdestroyer

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I don't feel confident of stamping because I have little experience with it, but lmk if no one else does

Overview:
- I wouldn't say it can deal with Leafeon and Jumpluff as they both 2HKO when boosted while Geist can't OHKO back.
- You should make a huge mention of some top-tier threats that it checks / counters. Notably: Barbaracle, Carracosta, Poliwrath, Torterra, and Raichu
- I wouldn't say it's vulnerable to Golem because it eats up hits from it even when it is slower. Try something else here.
- spinblocking + resistances doesn't give it an edge over spinners unlike Missy and Dusk: our spinners lose to all of them anyway. I would say it can spinblock while also adding resistances to the team

Moves:
- Leech Seed should be here and not in OO, it's a good enough move that I might consider using

Team options:
- Don't really get why you mention Gourgeist fitting on Spikes stack and then saying why it doesn't fit on Spikes stack, either justify its use on Spikes stacking teams or remove this point
- You mention some offensive teammates but also say that Gourgeist is a liability on offense most of the time. I haven't played much with Geist to know which one is accurate, but please try to clear this up

Other Options:
- Move Leech Seed to Moves
- Protect could probably get a place here, the extra Leftovers recovery can really help Gourgeist avoid some crucial KOs

Checks and Counters:
- List the Taunt users
- List more Fire-types
- Might want to list Toxic as something very annoying for Geist

Megazard Z
 

MZ

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Implemented most of that, unwilling to put leech seed into moves as I had a whole debate with Anty which ended with me taking it out, which I agree with now. scorpdestroyer
 

scorpdestroyer

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okay, I only saw people telling you to put it to Moves in this thread so I thought that was the conclusion

Team Options:

"Wallbreakers appreciate Gourgeist's ability to keep stealth rocks up which chips away at defensive counters. Simipour in particular can abuse Pelipper and Togetic being weakened while Stoutland can wear down Armaldo and Avalugg"

Pelipper and Togetic have Defog though so the SR gets blown off anyway. I also don't understand the Stoutland bit, does that mean that Stoutland can beat those for Geist? Also, I feel like this statement doesn't really relate to Geist, it sort of feels like something put there just for the sake of it, but if I'm misunderstanding, please ignore me

OO:
- Protect ?_?

Checks and Counters:
- Mention Ninetales in Fire-types
- Guts users: Flareon doesn't really count because it can't get burned anyway. Might want to mention Ursaring needs to look out for Foul Play

Megazard Z try to clear up the wallbreakers part of TO and I'll stamp since it seems like no one else will :]
 

MZ

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Please make the O in Will-O-Wisp capitalized. It's making me really annoyed.
I don't put any effort into grammar until I write stuff up because there's no point. And on that note, I'll write this tomorrow. Also, you're a nerd
 

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