And there we go. I knew it lol. Something had to prove me wrong.
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Pokémon Gourgeist
- Thread starter Shroomisaur
- Start date
- Status
Thank you for mentioning this haha I wanted to breed this thing but I was scared it had to come down to getting the right ability PLUS the size
The right ability is fixed with Ability item in Battle Maison. Sure it's a bit exp[ensive, but if everything is perfect but the ability, you don't need to toss it out.
I got a SUper Sized Impish Gourgeist in a GTS Trade, 31 HP, SpD. and Attack, but low Defense, so going to use this as a base to get a better Defense IV. I was still waiting on what you guiys thought on my set.
Will-o-wisp
Leech Seep
Phantom Force
Rock Slide
252 in HP and Mix rest in Attack and Defense
Sure I don't get a STAB grass move, but I would rather have an Attack to hit Fires and FLyings, and pretty much Take out talonflams and other 4x rock weak pokemon. She has the bulk to survive a SE Brave Bird I am Pretty sure. I like Phantom Force over Shadow Sneak due to the fact it adds the Leech seed and Will-o-wisp damage and adds the Leftovers healing. even if they switch to a normal type, you still get that extra healing.
Assuming you can get 31 Def IVs on it,
252+ Atk Life Orb (custom) Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def (custom): 312-369 (83.42 - 98.66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb (custom) Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def (custom): 312-369 (83.42 - 98.66%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
your Gourgeist is then capable of surviving @LO Brave Bird from Talonflame even without any Def investment.
Well that's good. Just need to get a 31 Defense IV then. Rock slide should easily KO the weakened TalonFlame then. Then I could probably switch out to my Alomomola to wish heal Gourgiest back to full health. Awesome.
Gurry (Gourgeist-Super) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Toxic
- Rock Slide
- Pain Split
Currently running this set. It has amazing walling potential, and can be a useful pivot. Although it's worst enemy is Ferrothorn/Venasaur, I'm confident in it's power to switch into a lot after mons that can't be Seeded/Poisoned are gone, and since most of those share a common weakness, Talonflame is a great teammate for Defensive Gourgeist.
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Toxic
- Rock Slide
- Pain Split
Currently running this set. It has amazing walling potential, and can be a useful pivot. Although it's worst enemy is Ferrothorn/Venasaur, I'm confident in it's power to switch into a lot after mons that can't be Seeded/Poisoned are gone, and since most of those share a common weakness, Talonflame is a great teammate for Defensive Gourgeist.
Will-o-wisp would help you get past all the steels and grass/poisons out there.
I know it would, but I feel the pure damage of Toxic combined with SeedSplit is overall stronger than Will-o-Wisp for what I need Gurry for. I see the use of WoW, but it has never agreed with me.
Well if it works for you, more power to you :)
In my unprofessional opinion, it's usually better to run Pain Split on smaller Gourgeist forms, who have lower HP stats and therefore can do more damage to the opponent with it. If you're using a super-sized Gourgeist, my recommendation would be to use either Protect or Phantom Force to stack on passive healing and damage. Special shout-out goes to Phantom Force, which makes excellent use of super-sized Gourgeist's higher Attack stat.
Small Gourgeist is amazing at OU. Outspeeding a lot of common spinners and being immune to forms of priority like ExtremeSpeed has made him an invaluable part of my setup.
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With super sized is it worth running enough speed to outrun min-speed neutral natured Tyranitar?
I am currently toying with the following set:
Gourgeist (Super-Sized) @ Leftovers
252 HP, 196 DEF, 60 SPE
Seed Bomb
Phantom Force
Will-o-Wisp
Leech Seed
Combined with a Vaporeon for wish support.
At first I was kind of doubtful of Gourgeist in OU. But against a lot of the bulky offense stuff atm it can do a lot of damage. It might have enough tools.
Another question, instead of the above I could run large sized Gourgeist to also outspeed Scizor:
Gourgeist (Large-Sized) @ Leftovers
252 HP, 4 ATA, 252 DEF
Seed Bomb
Phantom Force
Will-o-Wisp
Leech Seed
The difference in physical bulk is negligible, special bulk is a bit more, but you probably aren't planning on using him to take many special attacks. The speed difference allows you to outspeed a lot of bulky offense Pokemon and get off a Will-o-Wisp wrecking them. Basically comes down to is the 5 base attack lost hurting you for anything, and is the less special bulk hurting you.
For a core with this I am thinking combining with Vaporeon for wish support, and Gourgeist can take the electric and grass attacks aimed at Vaporeon. And Tyranitar to take care of the Talonflame problem, coming with the bonus of Gourgeist's fighting immunity and resistance to ground type attacks.
Opinions?
The most annoying thing about the 2nd set is how hard it is to distinguish a large sized Pumpkaboo ;).
I am currently toying with the following set:
Gourgeist (Super-Sized) @ Leftovers
252 HP, 196 DEF, 60 SPE
Seed Bomb
Phantom Force
Will-o-Wisp
Leech Seed
Combined with a Vaporeon for wish support.
At first I was kind of doubtful of Gourgeist in OU. But against a lot of the bulky offense stuff atm it can do a lot of damage. It might have enough tools.
Another question, instead of the above I could run large sized Gourgeist to also outspeed Scizor:
Gourgeist (Large-Sized) @ Leftovers
252 HP, 4 ATA, 252 DEF
Seed Bomb
Phantom Force
Will-o-Wisp
Leech Seed
The difference in physical bulk is negligible, special bulk is a bit more, but you probably aren't planning on using him to take many special attacks. The speed difference allows you to outspeed a lot of bulky offense Pokemon and get off a Will-o-Wisp wrecking them. Basically comes down to is the 5 base attack lost hurting you for anything, and is the less special bulk hurting you.
For a core with this I am thinking combining with Vaporeon for wish support, and Gourgeist can take the electric and grass attacks aimed at Vaporeon. And Tyranitar to take care of the Talonflame problem, coming with the bonus of Gourgeist's fighting immunity and resistance to ground type attacks.
Opinions?
The most annoying thing about the 2nd set is how hard it is to distinguish a large sized Pumpkaboo ;).
Gourgeist is slowly becoming my favorite Gen.6 Pokemon, and I've been using a Super-sized Gourgeist with a great amount of success using my own, pretty much random EV spread (by random I mean not based on specific damage calcs).
This is my set:
Gourgeist-Super@Leftovers
252 HP 152 Defense 104 SDef
Impish
Shadow Sneak
Seed Bomb
Will o Wisp
Leech Seed
I've been fairly successful with this set, but I kind of feel like there's a more efficient EV spread out there, I'm especially paranoid about this guy taking big Water-type hits on the special side, and while I do also have a Rotom-W on my team, he's physically defensive and my main Special Wall is Tyranitar so when Bank comes out stuff like Keldeo will really give me a headache, yet at the same time going max SDef with Careful will noticeably decrease my ability to switch into things like Excadrill and Kanghaskhan with impunity. Can anyone recommend a more efficient EV spread to take only certain common special hits (such as important OHKO and 2HKO benchmarks for things like Offensive Rotom Hydro Pump or Offensive Starmie Ice Beam for example)?
It would be nice to know if I'm running a little too many SDef EVs than necessary to tank the most common Water type attacks in the meta that way I can invest more EVs into taking Kanga's Crunch better, or if I'm just barely missing out on surviving 2 hits from an extremely relevant set in the current meta on either defensive side.
This is my set:
Gourgeist-Super@Leftovers
252 HP 152 Defense 104 SDef
Impish
Shadow Sneak
Seed Bomb
Will o Wisp
Leech Seed
I've been fairly successful with this set, but I kind of feel like there's a more efficient EV spread out there, I'm especially paranoid about this guy taking big Water-type hits on the special side, and while I do also have a Rotom-W on my team, he's physically defensive and my main Special Wall is Tyranitar so when Bank comes out stuff like Keldeo will really give me a headache, yet at the same time going max SDef with Careful will noticeably decrease my ability to switch into things like Excadrill and Kanghaskhan with impunity. Can anyone recommend a more efficient EV spread to take only certain common special hits (such as important OHKO and 2HKO benchmarks for things like Offensive Rotom Hydro Pump or Offensive Starmie Ice Beam for example)?
It would be nice to know if I'm running a little too many SDef EVs than necessary to tank the most common Water type attacks in the meta that way I can invest more EVs into taking Kanga's Crunch better, or if I'm just barely missing out on surviving 2 hits from an extremely relevant set in the current meta on either defensive side.
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You have the same set as the standard set minus the EV's and nature. I'm going to advocate for the standard careful 252 hp/sp. def set because it really can't not have enough special defense, especially if you factor in damage from hazards. Gourgiest still spounges physical attacks pretty well without defense investment and more so after landing a will-o-wisp. As long as you don't switch on mega kangaskhan using crunch, you have enough bulk to land a will-o-wisp on it and survive.
I'm not sure how much defense EV's you have to put in to make parental bond crunch a 3HKO, but it's probably enough to take away too many points from sp. defense. If it's running Sucker punch, Mega Kangaskhan shouldn't be a problem. This thing is about on par with Donphan in terms of taking physical hits.
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Also I think that we have almost no problem beating sucker punch users. We can bypass them using a combination of Subs/Leech Seed/Will O' Wisp and they will be hitting for less than the health of the sub on little time. I have forced out a lot of MegaKanga using my Gourgeist and this strategy.
![Grillo [old]](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/5d4f9a6180384b366e69fbe3a1808629?s=96){kind=avatar}
I was thinking to make a build with "Trick or Treat" + "Explosion" for 2v2, so you could turn your other pokemon into a ghost and hit both enemies with explosion.
I think there are better things to set up in doubles than that. It's better if you have another ghost type or a Pokemon with telepathy if you want to use explosion because that takes 2 turns to do (and gourgiest isn't exactly fast in turning other Pokemon into ghost types).
I just finished training my Seraphy(Gourgeist) Here's what I did.
Impish w/Leftovers
Will o wisp
Phantom Force
Leech Seed
Rock Slide
252 HP, 100 Defense, 156 Attack
She is a beastly tank with this. I found throwing some more defense makes her survivability much greater. With this set, she easily Survives a Life Orb's TalonFlames Brave Bird(the numbers were crunched earlier this page with 0 Defense EV's, but I threw in 100 to make her even bulkier. The reason I have Rock Slide over Seed Bomb is mainly due to TalonFlame. She can take anything it can give, and then OHKO back with rock slide. Plus it can hit the other Flying/Normal Types, and has a SE attack against fires.
Phantom Force further adds to her stalling capabiloities. Gets a WoW and Leech seed off, and then Phantom force. more healing and damage.
Impish w/Leftovers
Will o wisp
Phantom Force
Leech Seed
Rock Slide
252 HP, 100 Defense, 156 Attack
She is a beastly tank with this. I found throwing some more defense makes her survivability much greater. With this set, she easily Survives a Life Orb's TalonFlames Brave Bird(the numbers were crunched earlier this page with 0 Defense EV's, but I threw in 100 to make her even bulkier. The reason I have Rock Slide over Seed Bomb is mainly due to TalonFlame. She can take anything it can give, and then OHKO back with rock slide. Plus it can hit the other Flying/Normal Types, and has a SE attack against fires.
Phantom Force further adds to her stalling capabiloities. Gets a WoW and Leech seed off, and then Phantom force. more healing and damage.
Super Mario Bro
All we ever look for
I have extensively tested the following Gourgeist-S set, and find it to be quite good:
Gourgeist-Small (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Protect
- Will-O-Wisp
One of the main things that Gourgeist-S has over its huge form is a FAST Will-O-Wisp. I can't count how many times I've burned things like Mamoswine, CB Dragonite, Adamant Mega Kangaskhan, and Excadrill before they had a chance to attack. Furthermore, Leech Seed + Substitute + Protect makes Gourgeist a great annoying Pokemon, and simultaneously gives him a reliable source of recovery.
I tried testing an attack on Gourgeist-S (by dropping Protect for Phantom Force) for a little while, and found it to be a bit of a waste of time, since he rarely uses it, and it doesn't do much damage anyway. Doing this does make him completely shut down by Taunt and Grass-types with Natural Cure, though, but giving him the ability to both scout and SubSeed in exchange is entirely worth it.
Gourgeist-Small (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Protect
- Will-O-Wisp
One of the main things that Gourgeist-S has over its huge form is a FAST Will-O-Wisp. I can't count how many times I've burned things like Mamoswine, CB Dragonite, Adamant Mega Kangaskhan, and Excadrill before they had a chance to attack. Furthermore, Leech Seed + Substitute + Protect makes Gourgeist a great annoying Pokemon, and simultaneously gives him a reliable source of recovery.
I tried testing an attack on Gourgeist-S (by dropping Protect for Phantom Force) for a little while, and found it to be a bit of a waste of time, since he rarely uses it, and it doesn't do much damage anyway. Doing this does make him completely shut down by Taunt and Grass-types with Natural Cure, though, but giving him the ability to both scout and SubSeed in exchange is entirely worth it.
I like the idea of a fast Gourgeist, but the problem is that the surprise factor isn't there, because the size clearly displays how fast it's gonna be. However, I see the potential, and definitely the fun in being able to threaten stuff like Mamo and D-nite. A question I have is do you have "Spd" mean speed or special defense? If it's speed I get why, but I would like to mention that you only need 12EVs in speed to outspeed Mamo at all and 104EVs in speed to outspeed Jolly. A cool thing about 104 EVs in speed is that you go from 284 speed to 286 for just the 4 extra over 100EVs in speed, so two for four, but you lose out on 4 defense this way. All this is done at Lv100, not 50, so the numbers could be off for what you're calculating around, I just prefer Lv100(and assume most people do) because it's a lot cleaner number-wise. I'm assuming that 0IVs in Atk is for Foul Play as well.
At any rate:
Lv50 Gourgeist-S@Leftovers - Bold/252HP/44Def/212Spe
-Leech Seed
-Substitute
-Protect
-Will-o-wisp
This optimizes the numbers, giving you 2 more points in defense at Lv50 than a Timid nature does with a spread of 252HP/144Def/112Spe, while yielding the same speed(146 to outspeed Jolly Mamo/D-nite). Below is the same set optimized for Lv100.
Lv100 Gourgeist-S@Leftovers - Bold/252HP/52Def/204Spe
-Leech Seed
-Substitute
-Protect
-Will-o-wisp
Obviously you're going to want to use the first spread if you're gonna be playing a lot of auto-50s.
Also, for a Pain Split set, I'd say try as close to 0HP EVs on a Gourgeist-S as possible, running the same speed EVs as the above sets(to still outspeed base 80s) and then pump the rest into the defenses, as much as desired. Something like this:
Gourgeist-S@Leftovers - Impish/20HP/44Def/232SpD/212Spe
-Pain Split
-Will-o-wisp
-Rock Slide/Shadow Sneak/Destiny Bond
-Seed Bomb/Shadow Sneak/Phantom Force
The 20HP EVs ensure that you heal for 16hp on leftovers, which is just a numbers thing, but then the rest can be placed into SpD. Alternatively you could use the EVs to max out Defense and then put the remaining in SpD, it's all up to what you need this thing to do I guess. A hilarious thing you can do with Gourgeist-S is run Destiny Bond(breeds onto it), probably catching a lot of people off guard with a fast wall that can D-bond. I should also note that with an Impish nature you get a free point of defense when you put 240 EVs in, jumping from 372->374(according to Showdown), which is pretty cool for you min-maxers.
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Super Mario Bro
All we ever look for
On Pokemon Showdown, Spd = Speed. Anyway, I use that many EVs because it lets me outpace everything up to Jolly Lucario (before it Mega Evolves), which is surprisingly quite a few offensive threats. If I wanted a slower physical tank, I'd use Gourgeist's Huge forme. The only thing I'm unsure about is whether to place those last 72 EVs in Special Defense or Defense, since 72 EVs in Special Defense allow its Substitute survive 0 SAtk Rotom-W's Hydro Pump much of the time, but investment in Defense lets Gourgeist switch into attacks like Excadrill's Iron Head more easily.
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I actually love the idea of outspeeding Lucario..looks like I'm making a few more of these than I had first anticipated. Though it should be noted, for Lv50, you need 188 Spe EVs to outspeed Jolly Lucario.
Shroomisaur
Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.
I've (finally) updated the OP, adding current information, and also improved both of the main Gourgeist sets for each size to reflect their best sets in currently in OU! Hopefully the thread is helpful to everyone. You can always read the detailed previews in the C&C section of the forums. Major thanks to Super Mario Bro for helping with that Gourgeist-S spread.
Speaking of Gourgeist, many people are searching high and low for an answer to the beast that is Mega Kangaskahn. Gourgeist makes a surprisingly good check. Unless Kangaskahn is using Crunch and predicts the switch, Gourgeist can switch in with its immunities and neuter it with Will-O-Wisp while bypassing Sucker Punch. Super Size can possibly survive 2 Mega Kangaskahn Crunches, and Small size can outspeed Adamant Mega Kangaskahn and Burn it before it attacks, so both are unique in how they deal with it. Gourgeist is certainly not the most reliable answer to Kangaskahn (that honor goes to Sableye) but it's a good check - and there aren't even that many of those!
Edit: a quick example of Gourgeist-S defeating Mega Kangaskahn: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oubeta-66512258
Speaking of Gourgeist, many people are searching high and low for an answer to the beast that is Mega Kangaskahn. Gourgeist makes a surprisingly good check. Unless Kangaskahn is using Crunch and predicts the switch, Gourgeist can switch in with its immunities and neuter it with Will-O-Wisp while bypassing Sucker Punch. Super Size can possibly survive 2 Mega Kangaskahn Crunches, and Small size can outspeed Adamant Mega Kangaskahn and Burn it before it attacks, so both are unique in how they deal with it. Gourgeist is certainly not the most reliable answer to Kangaskahn (that honor goes to Sableye) but it's a good check - and there aren't even that many of those!
Edit: a quick example of Gourgeist-S defeating Mega Kangaskahn: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oubeta-66512258
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Have been using many Gourgeist-super lately, which functions really well, people keep forgetting that it is one of the extreme few pokemon(if not the only one, not sure about trevant and others) who get WoW and Leech seed in the SAME set. Paired with the great defensive bulk and most of the physical attacker in the meta is on check. Not investing in Spd may hurt its ability to spinblock Starmie though
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gourgeist-Super in Rain: 183-217 (48.9 - 58%)
And this is not adding in the effect of analytic yet, however I think it is safe to assume the rain is less an issue in gen 6.
Btw, I don't know why you need anything more than a shadow sneak, WoW + Leech seed = 1/4 health per turn, enough to worn down anything.
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gourgeist-Super in Rain: 183-217 (48.9 - 58%)
And this is not adding in the effect of analytic yet, however I think it is safe to assume the rain is less an issue in gen 6.
Btw, I don't know why you need anything more than a shadow sneak, WoW + Leech seed = 1/4 health per turn, enough to worn down anything.
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