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Granbull [QC 3/3]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by NatGeo, Mar 11, 2012.

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  1. NatGeo

    NatGeo sun's coming up
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    Cool I'll get this done

    also tennisace gave me permission to get some funny


    [Overview]

    <p>Just look at how adorable Granbull is, it would be delighted to have your face as a souvenir! Granbull can easily rip faces off with a powerful base 120 Attack, attacking both cats and most of the metagame with gusto. In addition, Granbull can Intimidate things to let it soak up physical hits easier. Quick Feet is another interesting ability that Granbull possesses, making sure that no Pokemon below base 105 Speed is safe from this canine menace. All of these traits coalesce into a fairly ferocious dog that tends to rip things apart with STAB Normal-type moves before asking for treats.</p>

    <p>While all of this is grand, Granbull is sadly outclassed in most roles by Ursaring, who has an all around higher stat spread to hit things harder and faster with. Aside from being outclassed, Granbull is also painfully slow, sitting at base 45 Speed; while this can be fixed to an extent by Quick Feet, Granbull will still be left vulnerable to some of the faster Pokemon in NU. However, if you have faith in your trusty dog like any good owner should, Granbull can get you through thick and thin as an overall solid player.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Mack Truck
    move 1: Facade
    move 3: Crunch
    move 3: Close Combat / Low Kick
    move 4: Protect
    item: Toxic Orb
    ability: Quick Feet
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While Granbull hits like a truck, it's painfully slow. This set remedies that problem to an extent, outspeeding all Pokemon up to base 91 Speed. Facade is your main STAB move, muscling through most of the Pokemon in the metagame that don't resist it thanks to not just a STAB boost, but also a power boost from Toxic Orb's poison. Crunch gives Granbull a way out versus potentially annoying Ghost-types, namely Misdreavus and Haunter. Crunch also nails Psychic-types for super effective damage, such as the Duosion. Close Combat and Low Kick are both useful for taking out Rock- and Steel-types who take all of Granbull's other attacks easily. Close Combat provides a lot of power up front, though it makes Granbull frailer than it already is due to the drop in each of its defensive stats; on the other hand, Low Kick isn't nearly as powerful versus some opponents, but the fact that Low Kick has no drawbacks and has higher PP makes it an interesting choice. Protect is a nice utility move in the final slot, not only for scouting stray attacks but also for activating Toxic Orb.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Maximum Attack and Speed EVs put Granbull's offensive capabilities in the spotlight, while a Jolly nature boosts Granbull's Speed further. Quick Feet is the only ability you should use on this set, as it's the only you're getting any more Speed. Speaking of which, Toxic Orb is the preferred item for activating Quick Feet.</p>

    <p>Thunder Wave can be used over Protect to paralyze any opponents switching in to take advantage of Protect. Stone Edge may also be used for Flying-types; Rock Slide can be used for the same purpose, sacrificing power for accuracy. However, most Flying-types you will encounter will either outspeed and KO Granbull, or are KOed themselves by Facade, making Rock-type moves rather pointless.</p>

    <p>Teammates who can set up entry hazards are awesome teammates for Granbull, since sometimes its damage output doesn't quite pull out key KOes. Spikes is especially useful; Pokemon like Glalie and Garbodor are great ideas to put down Spikes for Granbull. Granbull can also be used in conjunction with Ursaring to provide a sweeping core; Granbull can weaken or eliminate Ursaring's checks, allowing the latter to sweep easily, and vice versa.</p>

    [SET]
    Name: Banded Bulldog
    Move 1: Return
    Move 2: Close Combat
    Move 3: Crunch
    Move 4: Ice Punch / Stone Edge
    Item: Choice Band
    Ability: Intimidate
    Nature: Adamant / Jolly
    Evs: 214 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Choice Band Granbull hits like a truck, taking advantage of both its high strength and reasonable bulk. Return 2HKOes most of the metagame that doesn't resist it. Close Combat easily takes care of Rock- and Steel-types which can take Return. Crunch lets Granbull literally take a huge bite out of Ghost-types, KOing the most prominent Ghost-types, such as Haunter and Misdreavus. Ice Punch lets Granbull take down Flying-types on the switch easily, while also scoring a solid hit on Grass-types, such as Tangela and Amoonguss. Stone Edge is also an option, however, for hitting Fire- and Bug-types while retaining super effective coverage on Flying-types. However, Stone Edge's accuracy leaves much to be desired, which can be crucial in many cases.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EVs max out Granbull's Attack stat, thanks to max Attack EVs and an Adamant nature; however, a Jolly nature may be used if you feel that Granbull should be faster. Enough Speed EVs are given to outspeed neutral base 50s, and the rest of Granbull's EVs are put into its HP stat for bulk. Choice Band is the best item on this set, as it provides a boost to Granbull's already high Attack stat, giving it the ability to smash through anything that doesn't resist its attacks.</p>

    <p>Teammates who can provide Thunder Wave support are very useful teammates for a slow attacker such as Granbull, since it gives Granbull the ability to outpace opponents it wouldn't dream of outspeeding otherwise, like Ninjask and Electrode. Hazard support is appreciated, since it gives Granbull the extra help it needs to score some key KOes, such as a 2HKO on physically defensive Alomomola with Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Granbull has access to a plethora of options to choose from, but not very many are effective in NU. Sets with Substitute may work, carrying either Focus Punch or Bulk Up to take advantage of the Substitute; however, Granbull's Substitute can be broken easily by several attacks, leaving it vulnerable once it is out in the open. Choice Scarf may catch some opponents expecting a slower set by surprise. Unfortunately, Granbull's Speed leaves much to be desired even with the boost given by Choice Scarf. Granbull can take advantage of its slow Speed by using a Trick Room set; however, this leaves Granbull very vulnerable once Trick Room has run out. Lastly, Granbull has access to several support moves, such as Thunder Wave and even Heal Bell. Unfortunately, it is outclassed in this role by other support Pokemon, such as Tangela and Misdreavus.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>While Granbull isn't too common in today's metagame, if you do manage to see it there are a few options. Eviolite Tangela is probably the best option out there, as it can take all of Granbull's attacks easily, retaliating with STAB Giga Drain to not only damage Granbull but also restore its own HP. Armaldo comes at a close second in terms of walling Granbull, as it resists all of its moves bar Stone Edge, a move only seen on Choice variants. From there, it can hit back hard with STAB Bug- and Rock-type moves, or just set up Stealth Rock in Granbull's face. If you are facing a Choice Band version of Granbull, there are many Pokemon that can take all but one or two of Granbull's moves, especially Misdreavus and Probopass, who both only fall to Close Combat and Crunch, respectively.</p>

    <p>Offensive checks to Granbull are easy to find. Fighting-types are the best way to go, as they can easily KO Granbull with their STAB moves. Gurdurr is the bulkiest option, boasting amazing defenses with Eviolite while ignoring any Intimidate boost with Bulk Up; from there it can take out Granbull with STAB Drain Punch. Choice variants of Sawk can also get the job done, as although they can only switch in on a few attacks, they hit very hard and are easy to fit onto teams, thanks to STAB Close Combat. Other powerhouses can take out Granbull if it is weakened; Choice Scarf Braviary can KO Granbull with Superpower while outspeeding it, and Magmortar can easily KO with Fire Blast.</p>
  2. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
    Messages:
    882
    Amateur GP check. :D
    copypasta (open)
    [Overview]

    <p>Just look at how adorable Granbull is; it would be delighted to have your face as a souvenir! Granbull can easily rip faces off with a powerful base 120 Attack, attacking both cats and most of the metagame with gusto. In addition, Granbull can Intimidate things to let it soak up physical hits easier. Quick Feet is another interesting ability that Granbull possesses, making sure that no Pokemon below base 105 Speed is safe from this canine menace. All of these traits coalesce into a fairly ferocious dog that tends to rip things apart with STAB Normal-type moves before asking for treats.</p>

    <p>While all of this is grand, Granbull is sadly outclassed in most roles by Ursaring, who has an all around higher stat spread to hit things harder and faster with. Aside from being outclassed, Granbull is also painfully slow, sitting at base 45 Speed; while this can be fixed to an extent by Quick Feet, Granbull will still be left vulnerable to some of the faster Pokemon in NU. However, if you have faith in your trusty dog like any good owner should, Granbull can get you through thick and thin as an overall solid
    attacker.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Mack Truck
    move 1: Facade
    move 3: Crunch
    move 3: Close Combat / Low Kick
    move 4: Protect
    item: Toxic Orb
    ability: Quick Feet
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>
    While Granbull hits like a truck, it's also painfully slow. This set remedies that problem to an extent, outspeeding all Pokemon up to base 91 Speed with the speed boost from Quick Feet. Facade is your main STAB move, muscling through most of the Pokemon in the metagame that don't resist it not only due to a STAB boost, but also a power boost from Toxic Orb's poison. Crunch gives Granbull an option against potentially annoying Ghost-types, namely Misdreavus and Haunter. Crunch also nails Psychic-types for super effective damage, such asMusharna and Duosion. Close Combat and Low Kick are both useful for taking out the Rock- and Steel-types that can take all of Granbull's other attacks easily. Close Combat provides a lot of power up front, though it makes Granbull frailer than it already is due to the drop in each of its defensive stats; on the other hand, Low Kick isn't nearly as powerful versus some opponents, but it can still be useful due to its higher PP and lack of drawbacks. Protect is a nice utility move in the final slot, not only for scouting stray attacks but also for activating Toxic Orb.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Maximum Attack and Speed EVs
    highlight Granbull's offensive capabilities, while a Jolly nature boosts Granbull's Speed further. Quick Feet is the only ability you should use on this set, as it's the only way you're getting any more Speed. Speaking of which, Toxic Orb is the preferred item for activating Quick Feet, as Flame Orb reduces Granbull's Attack due to the burn it inflicts.</p>

    <p>Thunder Wave can be used over Protect to paralyze any opponents
    that switch in to take advantage of Protect. Stone Edge may also be used for Flying-types; Rock Slide can be used for the same purpose, sacrificing power for accuracy. However, most of the Flying-types you will encounter will either outspeed and KO Granbull, or are KOed themselves by Facade, making Rock-type moves rather pointless.</p>

    <p>Teammates
    that can set up entry hazards are awesome teammates for Granbull, as it allows Granbull to secure its KOes more easily. Spikes are especially useful; Pokemon like Glalie and Garbodor are great candidates to put down Spikes for Granbull. Granbull can also be used in conjunction with Ursaring to provide a sweeping core; Granbull can weaken or eliminate Ursaring's checks, allowing the latter to sweep easily, and vice versa.</p>

    [SET]
    Name: Banded Bulldog
    Move 1: Return
    Move 2: Close Combat
    Move 3: Crunch
    Move 4: Ice Punch / Stone Edge
    Item: Choice Band
    Ability: Intimidate
    Nature: Adamant / Jolly
    Evs:
    212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Choice Band Granbull hits like a truck, taking advantage of both its high strength and reasonable bulk. Return 2HKOes most of the metagame that doesn't resist it. Close Combat easily takes care of Rock- and Steel-types which can take Return
    , while Crunch lets Granbull literally take a huge bite out of Ghost-types, KOing Haunter and Misdreavus. Ice Punch lets Granbull take down Flying-types on the switch easily, while also scoring a solid hit on Grass-types, such as Tangela and Amoonguss. Stone Edge is also an option, however, for hitting Fire- and Bug-types while retaining super effective coverage on Flying-types. However, Stone Edge's accuracy leaves much to be desired, which can be crucial in many cases.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EVs max out Granbull's Attack stat, thanks to max Attack EVs and an Adamant nature; however, a Jolly nature may be used if you feel that Granbull should be faster. Enough Speed EVs are given to outspeed neutral base 50s, and the
    remaining EVs are put into its HP stat for bulk. Choice Band is the best item on this set, as it provides a boost to Granbull's already high Attack stat, giving it the ability to smash through anything that doesn't resist its attacks.</p>

    <p>Teammates
    that can provide Thunder Wave support are very useful for a slow attacker such as Granbull, as it gives Granbull the ability to outpace opponents it wouldn't dream of outspeeding otherwise, such as Ninjask and Electrode. Hazard support is appreciated, as it gives Granbull the extra residual damage it needs to score some key KOes, such as the 2HKO on physically defensive Alomomola with Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Granbull has a plethora of options to choose from, but not very many are effective in NU. Sets with Substitute may work, carrying either Focus Punch or Bulk Up to take advantage of the Substitute; however, Granbull's Substitute can be broken easily by several attacks, leaving it vulnerable once it is out in the open. Choice Scarf may catch some opponents expecting a slower set by surprise
    , although Granbull's Speed leaves much to be desired even with the boost given by Choice Scarf. Granbull can take advantage of its slow Speed by using a Trick Room set; however, this leaves it vulnerable to revenge-killers once Trick Room has run out. Lastly, Granbull has access to several support moves, such as Thunder Wave and even Heal Bell. Unfortunately, it is outclassed in using them by other support Pokemon, such as Tangela and Misdreavus.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p> Eviolite Tangela is probably the best option
    for dealing with Granbull, as it can take all of Granbull's attacks easily, retaliating with STAB Giga Drain to not only damage Granbull but also restore its own HP. Armaldo comes at a close second as it resists all of its moves bar Stone Edge, a move only seen on Choice variants (this isn't true, Close Combat hits it neutrally. Not sure how to reword this). From there, it can hit back hard with STAB Bug- and Rock-type moves, or just set up Stealth Rock in Granbull's face. If you are facing a Choice Band version of Granbull, there are many Pokemon that can take on Granbull most of the time, especially Misdreavus and Probopass, who both only fall to Crunch and Close Combat, respectively.</p>

    <p>More offensive checks to Granbull are also easy to find. Fighting-types are the best way to go, as they can easily KO Granbull with their STAB moves. Gurdurr is the bulkiest option, boasting amazing defenses with Eviolite while
    negating Intimidate's effects with Bulk Up; from there it can take out Granbull with STAB Drain Punch. Choice variants of Sawk can also get the job done, as although they can only switch in on a few attacks, they hit very hard and are easy to fit onto teams, thanks to STAB Close Combat and access to Strudy. Other powerhouses can take out Granbull if it is weakened; Choice Scarf Braviary can KO Granbull with Superpower while outspeeding it, and Magmortar can easily KO with Fire Blast.</p>
  3. No Luck Involved

    No Luck Involved

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    Granbull has Base 45 Speed so it does not outspeed Base 105s btw. It outspeeds Base 91s at +1.

    Base 55 Pokemon like Ursaring outspeeds Base 105s at +1.
  4. NatGeo

    NatGeo sun's coming up
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    fixed!

    edit: fixing those
  5. Steamroll

    Steamroll resident zombie
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    Remove mentions of Mesprit. Also Flame Orb cuts down on Attack, making it useless on a mon like Granbull.
  6. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    Posted my GP check, although I'd take it with a pinch of salt. :p
  7. No Luck Involved

    No Luck Involved

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    The speed tier issue still pops up in the first paragraph btw:

    "making sure that no Pokemon below base 105 Speed is safe from this canine menace"

    It should say base 91 Speed.
  8. merlinnerd922

    merlinnerd922

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    I don't know if this is an issue, but maybe the analysis should mention how Granbull "outclasses" Ursaring (i.e. Thunder Wave, Heal Bell, Intimidate). =P
  9. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken is it true what they say, that words are weapons?
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    Hi.

    SuperJOCKE talked to me on IRC about changing some of the sets, and we have to consider that this went through QC in mid-December. It was a significantly different metagame, and merlinnerd922 pointed out the similarities between Ursaring and Granbull: this analysis should highlight those differences, because honestly if I wanted to use a Quick Feet sweeper then I'd definitely go for Ursaring which has higher Attack, better Speed, better defenses, and Swords Dance. Why in the world would anyone want to use a subpar Pokemon for that role, when Ursaring is better in literally every way? I'm 50/50 even on having a Choice Band set, still. I hate to ruin your work of writing this up NatGeo, but I really think that we need to scratch that first set entirely, and at least sit there and consider whether or not a CB set is worth including (and this calls for the opinions of other QC members, as well). The RU analysis lists two other sets that need to be tested in our metagame. I'm fairly sure that none of them will work incredibly well if at all, but the way things work around here is that every fully-evolved Pokemon will get an analysis. In the case that all of the sets suck hard, then we just have to pick the best one then.

    Anyway, point is, we need to rework this before it actually goes on-site. Unless someone has a very good reason not to (and I highly doubt anyone coming up with a good reason to do so), the Quick Feet set needs to be scratched entirely, and we need to test those two primary sets of the RU analysis to see if they have any merit. If anyone has anything to share about Granbull, go right ahead.

    Apologies for not mentioning this until you wrote it up, Natty. :(
  10. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
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    Perhaps we should just include this on the update roster that we're rolling out soon, instead of stalling the whole process so that we can finish Granbull of all things.
  11. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
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    Yeah, I was thinking about this too, and it is a possibillity.

    When the updates for the UU analyses began, there were some analyses that weren't finished yet, and was finished while others got updates. One example was Cradily. Seeing as this analysis (along with others in the works right now) will take the new additions and removals into account anyways, this would be the most effective way to do this.

    However, I don't know how long Zebraiken wants to wait until we begin with these updates though.

    And about Granbull itself, this situation just occurred to me when I was looking at this, as there was a similar problem when I wrote RU Granbull myself, as seen here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3459953
  12. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken is it true what they say, that words are weapons?
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    I'll talk to tennips about it tomorrow (or later today, I guess).
  13. NatGeo

    NatGeo sun's coming up
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    Yeah that's all fine by me... I can turn this into an update if need be
  14. NatGeo

    NatGeo sun's coming up
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    [17:27] <NatGeo> do you want me to just move granbull to l&o?
    [17:27] <NatGeo> that tank set w/ twave in the ru analysis looks interesting
    [17:27] <Zebraiken> yea

    ;_;

    natgeo is a nigglet
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