Pokémon Greninja

[BurningFury101]

We all know Greninja is better suited to be a Special Attacker, but that DOES NOT mean physical Greninja is bad. It allows you to catch opponents off guard, Choice Banded Greninja (It actually can be pretty effective) can easily check both Mega Zards. More so, it's special movepool is actually WORSE then it's physical movepool, it just has the perfect coverage. Don't just say "Oh you can just switch into your physical wall after". Experienced players will know to U-Turn at the right time, switch into their special attacker, and there, they're forced to continually switch until both walls die.

Greninja is a late-game sweeper, it's physical side, with PuP allows it to actually be a decent sweeper. With a little bit of help, PuP a low health Pokemon and use your +1 boost to destroy souls. Greninja also only has 16 points less Attack than it's Special Attack, what ONE Pokemon actually cares about those sixteen points? The role physical Greninja plays is extremely similar to it's Special set, Physical Greninja just allows you to bypass some mons you normally wouldn't have fun against (Namely, Mega Zards importantly). Both have their ups and downs, but Physical is more or less outclassed by Special Greninja.

 

[ArashiTheRainDancer]

We all know Greninja is better suited to be a Special Attacker, but that DOES NOT mean physical Greninja is bad. It allows you to catch opponents off guard, Choice Banded Greninja (It actually can be pretty effective) can easily check both Mega Zards. More so, it's special movepool is actually WORSE then it's physical movepool, it just has the perfect coverage. Don't just say "Oh you can just switch into your physical wall after". Experienced players will know to U-Turn at the right time, switch into their special attacker, and there, they're forced to continually switch until both walls die.

Greninja is a late-game sweeper, it's physical side, with PuP allows it to actually be a decent sweeper. With a little bit of help, PuP a low health Pokemon and use your +1 boost to destroy souls. Greninja also only has 16 points less Attack than it's Special Attack, what ONE Pokemon actually cares about those sixteen points? The role physical Greninja plays is extremely similar to it's Special set, Physical Greninja just allows you to bypass some mons you normally wouldn't have fun against (Namely, Mega Zards importantly). Both have their ups and downs, but Physical is more or less outclassed by Special Greninja.

Finally! Another person who understands the power! Thank you. Could not have said it better myself, sir. One of the few things Greninja on the special side it cannot hit super effectively is Bug. Just putting that out there, because Rock Slide and Aerial Ace hits Bugs pretty hard. Its Pokemon like these that give reason not to ever run Yamega in OU.

 

[RabidChipmunk]

Finally! Another person who understands the power! Thank you. Could not have said it better myself, sir. One of the few things Greninja on the special side it cannot hit super effectively is Bug. Just putting that out there, because Rock Slide and Aerial Ace hits Bugs pretty hard. Its Pokemon like these that give reason not to ever run Yamega in OU.

Stealth Rock gives you a reason not to run Yanmega in OU.

Physical Greninja IS bad, and there's absolutely no reason to run it over Special Greninja. The only Bug-type Pokemon you'll find in OU are Pinsir (hit SE by Ice Beam), Scizor (neutral to any physical attack Greninja could throw at it, hit SE by HP Fire), the occasional Heracross (hit SE by Extrasensory, which is a staple on Greninja now) and Volcarona (hit SE by Hydro Pump).

The only way in which Physical Greninja can "check" Charizard is by threatening it with Rock Slide. Fun fact, Charizard X is hit only slightly harder SE Rock Slide than a neutral Hydro Pump (252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 227-269 (76.1 - 90.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO vs. 252 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 237-281 (79.5 - 94.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO... it's a OHKO after SR either way), so it's really only Charizard Y you're checking, and there are better ways to check that thing than by forcing your Greninja to run a sub-optimal set.

Physical Greninja can beat Special Walls because Physical Greninja is a gimmick: a set that the opponent can't predict for because it's too unviable to be ordinarily seen. Greninja's main role is a fast, special wallbreaker and potential late-game cleaner. PuP is weak as shit and there's no reason to try setting up to a measly +1 when you can be doing just as much, if not more, damage by just using Greninja's superior special movepool.

Greninja's official OU analysis probably says it better than I can:

• A physical set is inferior due to Greninja's limited list of physical moves, most of which are weak and lack coverage (they are mostly Water-, Dark-, and Normal-type moves). The only other physical move worth nothing outside of U-turn is Shadow Sneak; specifically, it can be used to revenge kill weakened Deoxys-S and avoid incoming Normal- or Fighting-type moves (such as Mach Punch and Superpower) from the likes of Diggersby and Conkeldurr. A mixed set is also inferior, as Greninja will have to split EVs between Attack, Special Attack, and Speed just to boost its physical moves. Water Shuriken might seem cool on paper for revenge killing Talonflame, but it is of limited use since it takes up a moveslot and does physical damage.

Don't use Physical Greninja.

 

[ArashiTheRainDancer]

Well, duh. And Rock Slide would do more damage than a WATER type in the rain? Who knew! Seriously, no shiet.

Do not listen to this RabidChipmunk. Nothing he says is influential! Use Physical Greninja to your hearts content. He does not know the TRUE power Greninja posesses!

Understand that its revenge killing potential is great and is almost untouchable with his remarkable speed. His specialty is completely countering mega Charizard Y. His Rock Slide is obviously a guarunteed kill. Aereal Ace can DECIMATE Heracross with no hassle, and same goes for Breloom bar one with Mach Punch.

In conclusion, a Physical Greninja destroys souls as a Revenge killer(I recommend the Choice Banded one!) Feel completely free to use it as a revenge killer on your team, and dont let anyone tell you its bad. Because its not(@ haters, and that is final. I don't want to hear it anymore. I also am not saying Special Greninja is bad. I love the special variant!)

Also, no offense, Rabid Chipmunck.
You just do not know its true power. ;)
No hard feelings!

Use Physical Greninja.

 

[s_aman]

Well, duh. And Rock Slide would do more damage than a WATER type in the rain? Who knew! Seriously, no shiet.

Do not listen to this RabidChipmunk. Nothing he says is influential! Use Physical Greninja to your hearts content. He does not know the TRUE power Greninja posesses!

Understand that its revenge killing potential is great and is almost untouchable with his remarkable speed. His specialty is completely countering mega Charizard Y. His Rock Slide is obviously a guarunteed kill. Aereal Ace can DECIMATE Heracross with no hassle, and same goes for Breloom bar one with Mach Punch.

In conclusion, a Physical Greninja destroys souls as a Revenge killer(I recommend the Choice Banded one!) Feel completely free to use it as a revenge killer on your team, and dont let anyone tell you its bad. Because its not(@ haters, and that is final. I don't want to hear it anymore. I also am not saying Special Greninja is bad. I love the special variant!)

Also, no offense, Rabid Chipmunck.
You just do not know its true power. ;)
No hard feelings!

Use Physical Greninja.

ROFL. Physical greninja is BAD. It can't switch in on charizard-y, so it is not a counter.

 

[InfinitySlayer]

On paper, special Greninja far outclasses physical Greninja, with more powerful moves coming off a higher stat. True, physical Greninja would miss out on a lot of important KO's because of the power downgrade.
But, most teams are well prepared for special Greninja, in which case a physical Greninja can upset their strategy and net a few KO's of its own before dying. The conclusion we can draw from this is that the special and physical sets have different roles. Where special Greninja is an undisputed late-game sweeper and cleaner, physical Ninja is a surprise-factor mon of sorts, leaving the cleaning/decimating job to another guy in the team.

 

[Jack Meister]

How many times do we have to repeat the same fucking idea over and over? Special Greninja is miles ahead of the physical variant. We all know that. Get it in your head and just fucking accept the facts. That said, people are still gonna use the inferior option for one reason or another but it doesn't change the fact that it's the worse set. Quit beating the dead horse, people. We aren't going anywhere with that discussion.

 

[Jack Meister]

Physical and Special Greninja are EQUAL

If you have even the slightest bit of idea about the OU metagame, you know that's bullshit.

 

[Jack Meister]

If your idea of fun is not winning games then sure, physical Greninja is the set for you. I mean c'mon, the only reason to ever run the physical variant is the surprise factor, and that is only good for 1 turn until the opponent easily adapts and murders your soft hitting Greninja. It isn't the ideal set. Accept the fact that it's completely inferior. I don't give a fuck if you choose to use the physical set. Use the hell out of if you want to. But don't fucking deny it's the obviously outclassed set.

 

[s_aman]

You're kind of an ass. Just saying. Please respect other people's opinions, whether or not you agree with them. They both have different purposes. Most people would agree on that. I, again, have not run a purely physical or purely special Greninja. Mixed Greninja solves our problems

LOL. Man, if you don't know, please don't debate. Physical Greninja is BAD and the discussion ends there. And, please stop this crap discussion, otherwise a mod will see it and all of us will be infracted. And, please don't even mention mixed greninja.

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

Physical Greninja doesn't even beat the counters of Special Greninja:

252 Atk Life Orb Greninja Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 183-216 (25.9 - 30.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Greninja Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 71-86 (20.1 - 24.4%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

It's simply bad, beating Goodra isn't important as Goodra is barely relevant in OU (I haven't seen one for weeks and I'm only 1700+ rating)

And Special Greninja can actually choose it's counters (other than Chansey which it can't beat unless running Taunt and switching to smth else) as it has one of the strongest Hidden Powers in the game easily getting past Ferrothorn/Scizor with HP Fire or Rotom-W with HP Grass.

There's simply no reason to run Physical Greninja as the only surprise factor about it is that unless of having to tank a fairly powerful special hit, you'll be tanking a pitifully weak Physical hit, outside of Rock Slide (which the Special set could easily run to beat ZardY/Talon/Mega Pinsir if it wanted too, even with Timid nature) and maybe U-Turn it doesn't even have different offensive coverage.

Hey I told you I didn't feel like arguing. It's personal opinion what you want to run. There's no reason to be so negative toward physical. I'm gonna stop here. I'm trying not to look like an idiot. Again, whatever you want to use you can use. It depends on what you need for your team

It IS personal opinion what you want to run, however it ISNT personal opinion what is better, at least not in this case as it is VERY clear cut.

 

[s_aman]

As I stated. I run ONE physical move. Rock Slide. It nails Talonflames and Charizards that decide to switch in. Purely physical Greninja is challenging to use properly. When used CORRECTLY, it can do ok I guess. But thank you for stating what I failed to say. >.>

why would a talonflame or charizard switch in on a greninja?

 

[Talpr0ne]

Talonflame due to the fact that Greninja is frail and is OHKO'ed by banded BB, and Charizard maybe to get up the sun so Surf does less damage. I dunno it's very circumstantial.

Considering that they still take a shitload from the other moves of standard ninja bar Grass Knot its nothing more than a complete waste of a moveslot.

 

[maccdollarz]

why do the damage calcs say life orb starmie rather than greninja?

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

why would a talonflame or charizard switch in on a greninja?

It's more that Greninja can revenge kill CharY and Mega Pinsir with it, Talonflame is another matter however and is already hit by Hydro Pump anyway so I guess not a big deal.

 

[Magicfire]

why do the damage calcs say life orb starmie rather than greninja?

At the time, we didn't have Greninja in any of the calculating machines, so we modified Starmie's stats and changed the typing. That's pretty much it.

 

[MAMP]

It's more that Greninja can revenge kill CharY and Mega Pinsir with it, Talonflame is another matter however and is already hit by Hydro Pump anyway so I guess not a big deal.

Rock Slide doesn't matter against Mega Pinsir, because Ice Beam OHKO's anyway:

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 354-421 (130.1 - 154.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

And if Mega Pinsir has set up a Swords Dance, it will just kill you with Quick Attack:

+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 270-318 (94.4 - 111.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

 

[RotomPoison]

Greninja's in Smash now.

Guess what, Charizard
########
name: Smash Bros Trolling
move 1: Fuck that, I can punch you
move 2: Fuck that, I can punch you
move 3: Fuck that, I can punch you
move 4: Fuck that, I can punch you
ability: To kill you
item: Surprising Dissapointment
evs: something that tells the Pokemon Trainer to fuck off

real comments

No Toxic Spikes or even Hidden Power types to fuck with people?

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know what no I just wanted to post that set

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Seriously TSpikes are cool

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I bet you want to stop reading this

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But you can't

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And the reason is

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Smogon are ruining the metagame

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

Rock Slide doesn't matter against Mega Pinsir, because Ice Beam OHKO's anyway:

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 354-421 (130.1 - 154.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

And if Mega Pinsir has set up a Swords Dance, it will just kill you with Quick Attack:

+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 270-318 (94.4 - 111.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

You're right I forgot about ice beam, still revenge killing CharY is a good enough reason to consider it if you've got no one else that can reliably do it.

 

[dkkc19]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-111435628

Greninja was actually helpful in this one. Though I think running Power Up Punch and U-turn is counterproductive and I need to find a better item. (Life Orb was great on Greninja but it doesn't last long and doesn't appreciate switching in and out with entry hazard)

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-111435628

Greninja was actually helpful in this one. Though I think running Power Up Punch and U-turn is counterproductive and I need to find a better item. (Life Orb was great on Greninja but it doesn't last long and doesn't appreciate switching in and out with entry hazard)

I'm sorry but the only thing your Greninja did there that a special greninja couldnt have done (better) was revenge kill the Galvantula with web up, which was only needed because you stupidly (no offense) wasted your Scolipede.

The late game cleaning a normal greninja could have done easily (it was a Heatran and a Trevenant after all, Hydro Pump and Ice Beam/Dark Pulse or simply 2 Dark Pulses would have easily killed both and even Timid Greninja's U-Turn would have broken Trev's Sub, but it could actually have stayed in because it wouldn't fear the burn.

 

[dkkc19]

I'm sorry but the only thing your Greninja did there that a special greninja couldnt have done (better) was revenge kill the Galvantula with web up, which was only needed because you stupidly (no offense) wasted your Scolipede.

The late game cleaning a normal greninja could have done easily (it was a Heatran and a Trevenant after all, Hydro Pump and Ice Beam/Dark Pulse or simply 2 Dark Pulses would have easily killed both and even Timid Greninja's U-Turn would have broken Trev's Sub, but it could actually have stayed in because it wouldn't fear the burn.

Haha, yeah I really did waste Scolipede there. Should've gone for protect on the first round and it had no business staying on a sashed Galv.

Greninja would've done better against Heatran and Trevn, no doubt. But the reason I posted that, is to show that Physical Greninja is not totally useless. I use Special Greninja in other teams and on WiFi and its definitely better aside from priorities and trolling those who are too hasty with Conkeldurr, going for mach punch instead of knock off.

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

It's outclassed making it 'useless' by comparison in a competitive setting which is the point myself and a lot of others have been trying to convey, the only scenario I could think of where physical greninja has an edge over special is in a 1v1 vs Chansey and even then it needs Power-Up Punch to have a chance of beating it, downright losing to Toxic varients, especially if they also carry Protect.

 

[Nachtigall]

I use a physical variation of Greninja (although it was special at first) using: water shuriken, aerial ace, U-turn and spikes (for electric types) and it has proven to be worthwhile. It used to have dark pulse, but it was its only special attack and after some thought, I decided to change it to a physical variation due to its moveset.

 

[dkkc19]

aerial ace? that's... interesting. I'd replace that with Rock Slide, 'cause that's one of the only reasons to run a fully physical variant.

Rockslide nails Talonflame and Charizard without investment in attack.

I used to run Waterfall, Shadow Sneak, Night Slash and U-Turn. Switched Night Slash with PuP. I think running PuP with U-Turn is kinda stupid, but I stopped using that team.