Oh whoops, I have no idea what possessed me to write that. Fixed, and thanks for the stamp!
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Greninja
- Thread starter AccidentalGreed
- Start date
Super Mario Bro
All we ever look for
We discussed Greninja quite a bit on IRC, and I think everything looks fine at the moment. Cheers!
QC APPROVED 2/3
QC APPROVED 2/3
But that's completely useless with Protean. The ability to change types and get STAB no matter what is what makes Greninja so versatile. While choice items are nice, Life Orb is the most well-suited item to Greninja because it lets him utilize Protean well while boosting his damage output. The only other item I can think of that's somewhat suitable to Greninja is Assault Vest, but Life Orb is much, much better
Thanks Super Mario Bro! I got this all written down, so go hit me.
I have been told to add it back in thanks to discussion with other QC members, in addition to other changes.
Done, under "Bulky Attackers."
With Genesect banned to Ubers, is it worth considering the merits of running Hasty over Naive? As far as I remember, the only reason Naive was chosen was because of Genesect and with it gone, is there any reason to choose one over the other?
Super Mario Bro
All we ever look for
It should probably still use Naive in order to take priority as well as possible.
Yeah, what SMB said. There's really no good reason to choose Hasty either, and there's still plenty of priority to watch out for. Removed mentions of Genesect, by the way.
Eh I'll just put them into the AC.
While you're at it, you could remove mentions of Mega Luke too.
Done with that
GP check.
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I implemented stuff from previous checks; good job GamingShawn and WoShiDavid , you can check any stuff you might've missed here.
GP 1/2!
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Overview
########
While Greninja's instant popularity in contrast to its viability is certainly a hot topic of debate, it can be argued that unlike other Pokemon, it has actually earned its celebrity status. Greninja is a powerful threat to watch out for in OU because it has a number of defining qualities, including its incredibly high Speed stat, incredible offensive ability in Protean, and plenty of coverage moves to utilize said ability with. The only things holding Greninja back from unquestionable stardom are its otherwise average offensive stats, frailty, and vulnerability to common priority attacks. Because of these, Greninja can be killed relatively easily by opposing tanks and a large number of priority users in the tier, and is forced to run fully special sets to reap as much coverage and power as possible. Fortunately, these factors don't fully stop Greninja from being an otherwise truly dangerous monster to prepare for: one that can significantly weaken or even swiftly clean teams with just a little team support.
All-Out Attacker
########
name: All-out Attacker
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Dark Pulse / Extrasensory
move 4: U-turn / Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Fire
ability: Protean
item: Life Orb
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Naive / Timid
Moves
========
With any combination of the given moves, Greninja achieves great power and coverage to batter the opposition with. Hydro Pump is Greninja's most powerful move (besides Hyper Beam) (If Hyper Beam isn't on the set, it isn't really relevant. If you're not gonna remove it, say "the most powerful move that Greninja can opt to run except for Hyper Beam"), benefitting from already great coverage, and should be used against bulkier targets in general. Ice Beam is essential, as it provides coverage against Grass- and Dragon-types, and also operates as Greninja's main "STAB" move if Hydro Pump's inaccuracy might be too risky in any situation.
The rest of the set comes down to preference; Greninja must unfortunately risk losing coverage against some of its counters if it chooses specific ones. Dark Pulse hits Psychic- and Ghost-types super effectively, including important bulky targets such as Jirachi, Metagross, Aegislash, and Jellicent. The former three, however, have some difficulty taking Hydro Pump already. Extrasensory allows Greninja to heavily damage some of its most important counters, including Keldeo, Tentacruel, Conkeldurr, and Mega Venusaur. U-turn is a great option for reliable scouting early-game, and compensates somewhat for any possible coverage issues. It also hits some threats, such as Celebi and Latias, harder than all its other moves. Hidden Power Grass is used to hit opposing Water-, Ground-, and Rock-types hard, but is mainly used to hit popular bulky targets such as Rotom-W and Gastrodon. Hidden Power Fire can be used to reliably hit a smaller, but equally important list of targets, especially Ferrothorn, specially defensive Scizor, and Forretress.
Grass Knot can be used instead of Hidden Power Grass, but differs somewhat in targets; it is especially reserved for Jellicent and Tyranitar, and can also be used in case Greninja needs to compensate for lost coverage against Jellicent if lacking Dark Pulse.
Set Details
========
Maximized Speed and Special Attack with either a Timid or Naive nature gives Greninja maximum power and a huge advantage over many fast unboosted threats in OU, including Alakazam, Tornadus-T, Starmie, Latios, Choice Scarf Tyranitar, and many others. These threats are so important that Modest or Rash natures should not even be considered. If Greninja does not use U-turn, it should be using a Timid nature. A Naive nature is chosen over Hasty in order to take some resisted priority moves better. Life Orb is also a requirement, as Greninja needs all the power it can get, and unlike other Pokemon, it is not exactly bothered too much by the recoil to the point of considering alternative items such as Expert Belt.
Usage Tips
========
This set can be used at absolutely any time in the game; it's your call whether Greninja is an early- to mid-game threat, or even a late-game cleaner. Typically, due to its frailty, Greninja should be sent in with a slow U-turn or Volt Switch, or after a teammate has fainted.
As a word of caution, do not overestimate Greninja's capabilities. Despite Protean boosting its attacks, Greninja cannot OHKO many bulky opponents, such as Keldeo, Latias, and Togekiss, at full heath, giving many of them opportunities to sponge an attack and retaliate. If it is up against such Pokemon, Greninja should not switch in at all, or retreat (with U-turn if possible) and let another Pokemon either handle them or weaken them to Greninja's KO range. Additionally, do NOT attempt to wall threats or resist moves with Protean, as Greninja is still very frail and has to deal with taking additional damage along with Life Orb recoil.
Team Options
========
Greninja applies tons of offensive pressure against most opposing teams, and thus appreciates entry hazards to rack up additional damage and punish switch-ins. Reliable hazard setters include Deoxys-S, Smeargle, and, especially for VoltTurn teams, Landorus-T. Speaking of VoltTurn, U-turn Greninja is a great and speedy fit on these types of teams for reasons provided above, so it naturally pairs well with Pokemon such as Thundurus, Landorus-T, and Scizor to cover each others' checks and counters. As Greninja will occasionally be required to sweep when the situation calls for it, it might need additional insurance against special walls such as Blissey, Sylveon, and Rotom-W. Scizor can typically handle the former two, while Goodra, Latias, and Assault Vest Conkeldurr can typically absorb Will-O-Wisp from Rotom-W and hit back hard.
Spikes
########
name: Spikes
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Hydro Pump
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: U-turn / Extrasensory
ability: Protean
item: Life Orb
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid
Moves
========
Due to the amount of switches and free turns Greninja generates, it has many opportunities to use Spikes to casually support its teammates and generate more damage. Hydro Pump, as usual, provides great power and coverage in one slot. Ice Beam is even more important than ever; in addition to serving as a good alternative main move to Hydro Pump, it typically KOes common users of Defog, including Latios, Latias, and Mandibuzz, who might come in to remove hazards. U-turn is somewhat complementary with Greninja's chosen entry hazard, as it allows Greninja to escape Rapid Spin users on top of other usual counters. Extrasensory is an alternative option to reliably hit Keldeo, Mega Venusaur, and, most importantly, Rapid Spin Tentacruel (isn't that a given?). Hidden Power Ghost can also be used to turn Greninja into a spinblocker for that turn; however, it is otherwise significantly inferior to other attacks in terms of overall power, coverage, and usability. Toxic Spikes is also worth considering to wear down defensive targets such as Blissey; keep in mind, though, that Toxic Spikes are generally easier to remove and does not affect Steel-type opponents and Pokemon with the ability Levitate.
Set Details
========
Greninja needs to be as fast as possible to lay down Spikes, and as powerful to score KOs on opponents when needed. Therefore, the usual combination of maximized Speed, Special Attack, and Life Orb will suffice for this set. As far as other options are concerned, Focus Sash almost guarantees that Greninja will be able to set up at least one layer of hazards or perhaps survive an attack and KO back.
Usage Tips
========
Although this set employs Spikes, only lay them down when you believe it is necessary; it is not recommended to miss important potential KO opportunities (against Pokemon that give your other teammates trouble) just to lay a single layer of Spikes. Instead, attempt to lay hazards down early-game, when Greninja can force out a multitude of switches and use Spikes in predicted switches, or against walls that can't hurt it too much. One of Greninja's best opportunities to lay down hazards is the face of slower Pokemon that rely on Electric-type moves. Spikes will turn Greninja into a Ground-type thanks to Protean, and will thus make it immune to Volt Switch and other Electric-type moves, essentially giving it another free turn to use Spikes or attack. Keep in mind that multiple layers of Spikes or Toxic Spikes are also not necessary, as Greninja might not find multiple opportunities to set too many layers.
When using attacks, the premise is the same with the all-out attacker set; simply attack and watch as the opponent takes huge damage or switches out and racks up even more damage from hazards.
Team Options
========
Spikes Greninja is best suited for offensive teams where dedicated leads or hazard layers such as Deoxys-S are unwanted. Greninja differentiates itself from these archetypes due to its outstanding offensive presence, and also forces switches and thus provides for setup opportunities. In the case of Spikes, Greninja should be paired with offensive Pokemon that benefit from grounded checks and counters being worn down. Swords Dance Lucario is a great example of this, as it needs just one layer of Spikes to guarantee the OHKO on physically defensive Hippowdon and other walls. Pokemon that can apply offensive pressure and force switches (and thus rack up more damage) also apply for both types of Spikes, including Substitute Kyurem-B and bulky Rotom-W.
Although Greninja typically isn't exactly bothered by the presence of Rapid Spin and Defog users by itself, running a spinblocker is a good idea to counteract the latter if your Pokemon are truly reliant on Spikes or Toxic Spikes. Gengar is a good example in this case, as it can take on common Rapid Spin users except Starmie, which Greninja can outspeed and threaten with U-turn. Defog is a little harder to prevent, but attempts can either be blocked with Taunt, or punished by using the oft-unprepared-for Defiant Bisharp. If using Bisharp, also consider pairing both Greninja and Bisharp with Aegislash to limit the amount of hazards opposing Deoxys-S can set up.
Other Options
########
A physical set is inferior due to Greninja's weak and limited list of physical moves, most of which are also lacking in decent coverage besides mostly Normal, Dark, and Water. A mixed set also falls under this category, as Greninja might have to split EVs between Attack, Special Attack, and Speed just to boost its physical moves. Water Shuriken might seem cool on paper for revenge killing Talonflame, but is limited since it takes up a moveslot and does physical damage.
Checks & Counters
########
**Residual Damage**: Greninja is already frail and relies on Life Orb to make up for its average power. When paired with either of burn, poison, and random entry hazards, Life Orb recoil can add up quickly and severely shorten Greninja's lifespan.
**Specially Defensive Pokemon**: Pokemon with a high amount of Special Defense and/or Assault Vest can sponge most of Greninja's special attacks and wear it down or outright KO it. Blissey, Chansey, Clefable, Cresselia, Goodra, Ferrothorn, and Tentacruel are common examples of such Pokemon, although the first three are the only ones that can reliably switch into Greninja without getting worn down by a super effective hit.
**Bulky Attackers**: There are Pokemon that can resist move of Greninja's most commonly used moves, possibly survive attacks reserved specifically for them, and hit back hard. With the exception of Extrasensory, Keldeo and Mega Venusaur resist all of Greninja's most commonly used moves with ease, and can hit back with their STAB attacks. Assault Vest Conkeldurr can also shrug off most attacks and either heal with Drain Punch or outright attack with Mach Punch, although like the previous two, it must watch out for Extrasensory. Furthermore, Kyurem, Kyurem-B, Azumarill, and Mega Gyarados are all naturally bulky and tank most of Greninja's usual attacks.
**Faster Attackers**: Revenge killing is a reliable way of eliminating Greninja, though its Water typing means that it naturally resists Bullet Punch and Ice Shard. The most reliable way to revenge kill it besides using Choice Scarf Pokemon or naturally faster Pokemon (such as Deoxys-S and Jolteon) is with powerful priority users. Assuming Greninja does not change into a type that resists a particular priority attack, Talonflame, Scizor, Entei, and Conkeldurr are able to at least deal hefty damage, if not outright OHKO, with their respective own. Sucker Punch from Absol and Bisharp also does a heavy amount of damage, assuming Greninja is not Dark-type at the time. Thundurus also technically applies, as it can paralyze Greninja with Prankster Thunder Wave and leave it crippled for the rest of the match.
########
While Greninja's instant popularity in contrast to its viability is certainly a hot topic of debate, it can be argued that unlike other Pokemon, it has actually earned its celebrity status. Greninja is a powerful threat to watch out for in OU because it has a number of defining qualities, including its incredibly high Speed stat, incredible offensive ability in Protean, and plenty of coverage moves to utilize said ability with. The only things holding Greninja back from unquestionable stardom are its otherwise average offensive stats, frailty, and vulnerability to common priority attacks. Because of these, Greninja can be killed relatively easily by opposing tanks and a large number of priority users in the tier, and is forced to run fully special sets to reap as much coverage and power as possible. Fortunately, these factors don't fully stop Greninja from being an otherwise truly dangerous monster to prepare for: one that can significantly weaken or even swiftly clean teams with just a little team support.
All-Out Attacker
########
name: All-out Attacker
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Dark Pulse / Extrasensory
move 4: U-turn / Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Fire
ability: Protean
item: Life Orb
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Naive / Timid
Moves
========
With any combination of the given moves, Greninja achieves great power and coverage to batter the opposition with. Hydro Pump is Greninja's most powerful move (besides Hyper Beam) (If Hyper Beam isn't on the set, it isn't really relevant. If you're not gonna remove it, say "the most powerful move that Greninja can opt to run except for Hyper Beam"), benefitting from already great coverage, and should be used against bulkier targets in general. Ice Beam is essential, as it provides coverage against Grass- and Dragon-types, and also operates as Greninja's main "STAB" move if Hydro Pump's inaccuracy might be too risky in any situation.
The rest of the set comes down to preference; Greninja must unfortunately risk losing coverage against some of its counters if it chooses specific ones. Dark Pulse hits Psychic- and Ghost-types super effectively, including important bulky targets such as Jirachi, Metagross, Aegislash, and Jellicent. The former three, however, have some difficulty taking Hydro Pump already. Extrasensory allows Greninja to heavily damage some of its most important counters, including Keldeo, Tentacruel, Conkeldurr, and Mega Venusaur. U-turn is a great option for reliable scouting early-game, and compensates somewhat for any possible coverage issues. It also hits some threats, such as Celebi and Latias, harder than all its other moves. Hidden Power Grass is used to hit opposing Water-, Ground-, and Rock-types hard, but is mainly used to hit popular bulky targets such as Rotom-W and Gastrodon. Hidden Power Fire can be used to reliably hit a smaller, but equally important list of targets, especially Ferrothorn, specially defensive Scizor, and Forretress.
Grass Knot can be used instead of Hidden Power Grass, but differs somewhat in targets; it is especially reserved for Jellicent and Tyranitar, and can also be used in case Greninja needs to compensate for lost coverage against Jellicent if lacking Dark Pulse.
Set Details
========
Maximized Speed and Special Attack with either a Timid or Naive nature gives Greninja maximum power and a huge advantage over many fast unboosted threats in OU, including Alakazam, Tornadus-T, Starmie, Latios, Choice Scarf Tyranitar, and many others. These threats are so important that Modest or Rash natures should not even be considered. If Greninja does not use U-turn, it should be using a Timid nature. A Naive nature is chosen over Hasty in order to take some resisted priority moves better. Life Orb is also a requirement, as Greninja needs all the power it can get, and unlike other Pokemon, it is not exactly bothered too much by the recoil to the point of considering alternative items such as Expert Belt.
Usage Tips
========
This set can be used at absolutely any time in the game; it's your call whether Greninja is an early- to mid-game threat, or even a late-game cleaner. Typically, due to its frailty, Greninja should be sent in with a slow U-turn or Volt Switch, or after a teammate has fainted.
As a word of caution, do not overestimate Greninja's capabilities. Despite Protean boosting its attacks, Greninja cannot OHKO many bulky opponents, such as Keldeo, Latias, and Togekiss, at full heath, giving many of them opportunities to sponge an attack and retaliate. If it is up against such Pokemon, Greninja should not switch in at all, or retreat (with U-turn if possible) and let another Pokemon either handle them or weaken them to Greninja's KO range. Additionally, do NOT attempt to wall threats or resist moves with Protean, as Greninja is still very frail and has to deal with taking additional damage along with Life Orb recoil.
Team Options
========
Greninja applies tons of offensive pressure against most opposing teams, and thus appreciates entry hazards to rack up additional damage and punish switch-ins. Reliable hazard setters include Deoxys-S, Smeargle, and, especially for VoltTurn teams, Landorus-T. Speaking of VoltTurn, U-turn Greninja is a great and speedy fit on these types of teams for reasons provided above, so it naturally pairs well with Pokemon such as Thundurus, Landorus-T, and Scizor to cover each others' checks and counters. As Greninja will occasionally be required to sweep when the situation calls for it, it might need additional insurance against special walls such as Blissey, Sylveon, and Rotom-W. Scizor can typically handle the former two, while Goodra, Latias, and Assault Vest Conkeldurr can typically absorb Will-O-Wisp from Rotom-W and hit back hard.
Spikes
########
name: Spikes
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Hydro Pump
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: U-turn / Extrasensory
ability: Protean
item: Life Orb
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid
Moves
========
Due to the amount of switches and free turns Greninja generates, it has many opportunities to use Spikes to casually support its teammates and generate more damage. Hydro Pump, as usual, provides great power and coverage in one slot. Ice Beam is even more important than ever; in addition to serving as a good alternative main move to Hydro Pump, it typically KOes common users of Defog, including Latios, Latias, and Mandibuzz, who might come in to remove hazards. U-turn is somewhat complementary with Greninja's chosen entry hazard, as it allows Greninja to escape Rapid Spin users on top of other usual counters. Extrasensory is an alternative option to reliably hit Keldeo, Mega Venusaur, and, most importantly, Rapid Spin Tentacruel (isn't that a given?). Hidden Power Ghost can also be used to turn Greninja into a spinblocker for that turn; however, it is otherwise significantly inferior to other attacks in terms of overall power, coverage, and usability. Toxic Spikes is also worth considering to wear down defensive targets such as Blissey; keep in mind, though, that Toxic Spikes are generally easier to remove and does not affect Steel-type opponents and Pokemon with the ability Levitate.
Set Details
========
Greninja needs to be as fast as possible to lay down Spikes, and as powerful to score KOs on opponents when needed. Therefore, the usual combination of maximized Speed, Special Attack, and Life Orb will suffice for this set. As far as other options are concerned, Focus Sash almost guarantees that Greninja will be able to set up at least one layer of hazards or perhaps survive an attack and KO back.
Usage Tips
========
Although this set employs Spikes, only lay them down when you believe it is necessary; it is not recommended to miss important potential KO opportunities (against Pokemon that give your other teammates trouble) just to lay a single layer of Spikes. Instead, attempt to lay hazards down early-game, when Greninja can force out a multitude of switches and use Spikes in predicted switches, or against walls that can't hurt it too much. One of Greninja's best opportunities to lay down hazards is the face of slower Pokemon that rely on Electric-type moves. Spikes will turn Greninja into a Ground-type thanks to Protean, and will thus make it immune to Volt Switch and other Electric-type moves, essentially giving it another free turn to use Spikes or attack. Keep in mind that multiple layers of Spikes or Toxic Spikes are also not necessary, as Greninja might not find multiple opportunities to set too many layers.
When using attacks, the premise is the same with the all-out attacker set; simply attack and watch as the opponent takes huge damage or switches out and racks up even more damage from hazards.
Team Options
========
Spikes Greninja is best suited for offensive teams where dedicated leads or hazard layers such as Deoxys-S are unwanted. Greninja differentiates itself from these archetypes due to its outstanding offensive presence, and also forces switches and thus provides for setup opportunities. In the case of Spikes, Greninja should be paired with offensive Pokemon that benefit from grounded checks and counters being worn down. Swords Dance Lucario is a great example of this, as it needs just one layer of Spikes to guarantee the OHKO on physically defensive Hippowdon and other walls. Pokemon that can apply offensive pressure and force switches (and thus rack up more damage) also apply for both types of Spikes, including Substitute Kyurem-B and bulky Rotom-W.
Although Greninja typically isn't exactly bothered by the presence of Rapid Spin and Defog users by itself, running a spinblocker is a good idea to counteract the latter if your Pokemon are truly reliant on Spikes or Toxic Spikes. Gengar is a good example in this case, as it can take on common Rapid Spin users except Starmie, which Greninja can outspeed and threaten with U-turn. Defog is a little harder to prevent, but attempts can either be blocked with Taunt, or punished by using the oft-unprepared-for Defiant Bisharp. If using Bisharp, also consider pairing both Greninja and Bisharp with Aegislash to limit the amount of hazards opposing Deoxys-S can set up.
Other Options
########
A physical set is inferior due to Greninja's weak and limited list of physical moves, most of which are also lacking in decent coverage besides mostly Normal, Dark, and Water. A mixed set also falls under this category, as Greninja might have to split EVs between Attack, Special Attack, and Speed just to boost its physical moves. Water Shuriken might seem cool on paper for revenge killing Talonflame, but is limited since it takes up a moveslot and does physical damage.
Checks & Counters
########
**Residual Damage**: Greninja is already frail and relies on Life Orb to make up for its average power. When paired with either of burn, poison, and random entry hazards, Life Orb recoil can add up quickly and severely shorten Greninja's lifespan.
**Specially Defensive Pokemon**: Pokemon with a high amount of Special Defense and/or Assault Vest can sponge most of Greninja's special attacks and wear it down or outright KO it. Blissey, Chansey, Clefable, Cresselia, Goodra, Ferrothorn, and Tentacruel are common examples of such Pokemon, although the first three are the only ones that can reliably switch into Greninja without getting worn down by a super effective hit.
**Bulky Attackers**: There are Pokemon that can resist move of Greninja's most commonly used moves, possibly survive attacks reserved specifically for them, and hit back hard. With the exception of Extrasensory, Keldeo and Mega Venusaur resist all of Greninja's most commonly used moves with ease, and can hit back with their STAB attacks. Assault Vest Conkeldurr can also shrug off most attacks and either heal with Drain Punch or outright attack with Mach Punch, although like the previous two, it must watch out for Extrasensory. Furthermore, Kyurem, Kyurem-B, Azumarill, and Mega Gyarados are all naturally bulky and tank most of Greninja's usual attacks.
**Faster Attackers**: Revenge killing is a reliable way of eliminating Greninja, though its Water typing means that it naturally resists Bullet Punch and Ice Shard. The most reliable way to revenge kill it besides using Choice Scarf Pokemon or naturally faster Pokemon (such as Deoxys-S and Jolteon) is with powerful priority users. Assuming Greninja does not change into a type that resists a particular priority attack, Talonflame, Scizor, Entei, and Conkeldurr are able to at least deal hefty damage, if not outright OHKO, with their respective own. Sucker Punch from Absol and Bisharp also does a heavy amount of damage, assuming Greninja is not Dark-type at the time. Thundurus also technically applies, as it can paralyze Greninja with Prankster Thunder Wave and leave it crippled for the rest of the match.
I implemented stuff from previous checks; good job GamingShawn and WoShiDavid , you can check any stuff you might've missed here.
GP 1/2!
Ash Borer
I've heard they're short of room in hell
Yo. Water Shuriken deserves a mention imo. A lot of teams rely on talonflame to check Greninja, it's a real dangerous pokemon. With water shuriken in that fourth slot you OHKO talonflame after rocks, or if youre lucky and get 5 hits its a clean kill (4 atk life orb set).
Priority is priority anyways, you can pick off some weakened shit with it, so its not like your ONLY target is Talonflame.
Priority is priority anyways, you can pick off some weakened shit with it, so its not like your ONLY target is Talonflame.
The physical set is already mentioned in OO, and Water Shuriken is weak as shit if used on any other sets. It relies on good RNG rolls to ever be considered worthwhile (can rival Sucker Punch in power, or is weaker than Aqua Jet), meaning you still have to run Waterfall alongside your Water priority. Losing to Talonflame is a small price to pay when you have so many 'STAB' moves that hit so much of the tier, and it would not be worth giving up even one of those moves for such a situational attack.
Ash Borer
I've heard they're short of room in hell
I'm talking about as a fourth move on the specially offensive set over hidden power or u-turn. All the hidden powers there are nearly as situational, hitting a small number of targets like Ferrothorn, or Rotom-W in an entire moveslot. Water shuriken isn't much different. It's more or less just for Talonflame, but it does the job there.
Greninja is very dangerous against balanced and offensive teams that rely on Talonflame for revenge killing.
Would this mean you're running next to no Attack EVs?
4 Atk Life Orb Greninja (30 BP Water Physical) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 109-133 (36.7 - 44.78%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 Atk Life Orb Greninja (75 BP Water Physical) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 268-320 (89.93 - 107.38%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO
I get it, priority is priority, but if used by such a frail and already fast Pokemon, such inconsistency is rarely worth it. At least U-turn prevents Greninja from getting hit and nabs momentum; Hidden Power, if it doesn't outright KO the threat, allows Greninja to survive the blow via Protean and KO next turn. If you're going to go on about priority, I'm surprised you did not touch upon Shadow Sneak, which throws off Conkeldurr and Breloom. Not that either priority attack is great enough to warrant that usage, but they are OO at most, which Water Shuriken is already listed in.