VGC 14 Greninja

Energy

Please tell me why do we worry
is a Tiering Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
#1
Overview
########

Greninja has an incredible base 122 Speed, which makes it capable of outspeeding nearly every viable Pokemon in the VGC metagame. Protean is one of the best abilities in the game as well, giving Greninja STAB on all of its attacks. On top of that, Greninja has a diverse movepool which allows it to hit most threats for super effective damage. However, Greninja is very frail, which means many things can OHKO it; it also loses easily to priority. While Greninja is definitely a fun Pokemon to use, it should fill an important role if it is used.

Standard
########
name: Standard
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Rock Slide / Dark Pulse
move 4: Protect
ability: Protean
item: Life Orb / Focus Sash
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========

Hydro Pump is necessary over Scald because Greninja needs Hydro Pump's power to guarantee OHKOs on Gengar, Lucario, and 252 HP / 116 SpD Rotom-H. Hydro Pump also nets several additional KOs when paired with Mega Kangaskhan's Fake Out including Mega Charizard X and Mega Charizard Y with a very small chance to KO uninvested Mega Kangaskhan. Ice Beam hits Venusaur and Amoonguss super effectively, and it is Greninja's strongest option on this set for Ferrothorn. Rock Slide OHKOs both Mega Charizard Y and Talonflame, while Dark Pulse hits Aegislash and Reuniclus extremely hard. Protect is necessary so Greninja's partner can KO a threat without Greninja being harmed. It is not worth replacing Protect with an additional coverage move because Greninja would become too exposed.

Set Details
========

The EVs maximize Greninja's damage output and Speed. A Timid nature allows Greninja to outspeed almost every viable VGC Pokemon without a Choice Scarf. Life Orb is nice for power, but Focus Sash is usable for longevity. However, Focus Sash is almost always outclassed by Life Orb because of Tyranitar's popularity and its ability, Sand Stream.

Usage Tips
========

One needs to make sure that Greninja is not targeted by enemy attacks that will likely KO it. Greninja has great utility as a lead because it can scout for Choice Scarf users, though it generally needs to Protect turn one to protect itself against Mega Kangaskhan's Fake Out. In addition, Protecting helps to find specific Choice Scarf Pokemon such as Hydreigon and Salamence, which will help the Greninja player throughout the duration of the game. Greninja can also be used regularly if opposing Choice Scarf Pokemon have been eliminated.

Team Options
========

Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Mawile, or Choice Band Talonflame are all great partners, as they can protect Greninja from getting KOed by slower Pokemon, as well as provide offensive pressure. Mega Kangaskhan is an especially good partner because it can Fake Out opposing Choice Scarf users that would otherwise outspeed Greninja. Greninja can also be used in hail teams by replacing Ice Beam with Blizzard, which has more power and perfect accuracy in hail, and Greninja can KO Pokemon that resist Blizzard, such as Aegislash, with Dark Pulse.

Other Options
########

Mat Block only works the first turn Greninja is on the field, and it prevents one's team from all non-status moves that turn. However, unlike Protect, it does not have priority. Taunt is an option to stop moves such as Spore, Will-O-Wisp, and Trick Room, which can really help out Pokemon such as Mega Kangaskhan. Hidden Power Fire hits Ferrothorn, Hidden Power Grass hits Azumarill and Rotom-W, and Extrasensory hits Conkeldurr. Choice Specs is an option to hit very hard, but Greninja then cannot take as much advantage of its fantastic ability, Protean.

Checks & Counters
########

**Rotom-W**: Rotom-W takes neutral damage from all of Greninja's standard moves in VGC. It can then retaliate with a STAB Thunderbolt, or burn any of Greninja's teammates that switch in.

**Talonflame**: Choice Band Talonflame always OHKOs Greninja with Brave Bird. However, Focus Sash Greninja easily KOes Talonflame in return with Hydro Pump.

**Fighting-types**: Fighting-types such as Conkeldurr, Scrafty, and even Lucario check Greninja well. They can usually take a hit and retaliate back with a KO or threaten it with priority.

**Mega Mawile**: Mega Mawile hard counters Greninja because of its typing and bulk. Its Play Rough OHKOs Greninja, and Sucker Punch easily KOes Greninja after any bit of chip damage.

**Rage Powder and Follow Me Users**: Greninja cannot do anything against Pokemon that use Rage Powder and Follow Me. They can generally sponge a hit, leaving Greninja exposed to powerful attacks.




Skeleton
Overview
########
  • Incredibly fast
  • Protean is one of the best abilities in Pokemon
  • Great move pool to abuse with protean for keeping the opponent guessing.
  • Dies in one hit to mostly everything
  • Loses to priority.

Standard
########
name: Standard
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Rock Slide / Dark Pulse
move 4: Protect
ability: Protean
item: Life Orb / Focus Sash
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========
  • Hydro Pump is necessary over Scald for power
  • Ice Beam hits normal Venusaur and Amoonguss, and is Greninja's strongest move against Ferrothorn
  • Dark Pulse hits Aegislash and Reuniclus, Rock Slide kills Mega Charizard Y and Talonflame
  • Protect is a staple so Greninja's partner can kill a threat off. Additional coverage is not worth the move slot.

Set Details
========
  • EVs are self explanatory
  • Timid outspeeds almost every viable VGC Pokemon without Choice Scarf
  • Life Orb is nice for power, but Focus Sash is usable for longevity. However, with Tyranitar's popularity it is almost always outclassed by Life Orb.
Usage Tips
========
  • Not easy to use playing an experienced opponent, need to make sure Greninja does not get targeted with an attack or it will most likely die.
  • Works well as a lead on most teams to scout for Choice Scarf, but it generally needs to Protect first turn fearing chip damage which puts it into certain KO range.
  • Also works if it is in the back sweeping an opponent's Choice Scarf Pokemon are eliminated.
Team Options
========
  • Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Mawile, or Choice Band Talonflame are all great partners because they can protect Greninja from getting killed by slower Pokemon. Furthermore, paired with Greninja they put a lot of offensive pressure on an opponent.
  • Mega Kangaskhan is especially good because it can Fake Out Choice Scarf Pokemon that otherwise outspeed Greninja
  • Greninja works in hail teams. Blizzard has perfect accuracy in hail, and Greninja can take out pokemon such as Aegislash that resist Blizzard with Dark Pulse.
Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Mawile, or Choice Band Talonflame are all great partners because they can protect Greninja from getting killed by slower Pokemon. Furthermore, paired with Greninja they put a lot of offensive pressure on an opponent. Mega Kangaskhan is especially good because it can Fake Out Choice Scarf Pokemon that otherwise outspeed Greninja. Greninja works in hail teams. Blizzard has perfect accuracy in hail, and Greninja can take out pokemon such as Aegislash that resist Blizzard with Dark Pulse.

Other Options
########
  • Mat Block
  • Taunt
  • Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Grass / Extrasensory
  • Choice Specs
Checks & Counters
########

**Rotom-W**: Rotom-W takes neutral damage to all of Greninja's standard moves in VGC. It can then retaliate with a STAB thunderbolt, or perhaps burn Greninja's teammate.

**Talonflame**: Choice Band Talonflame always KOs with Brave Bird. However, Greninja with Focus Sash easily KOs Talonflame in return with Hydro Pump.

**Fighting types**: Fighting types like Conkeldurr, Scrafty, and even Lucario check Greninja well. They can usually take a hit and retaliate back with a KO or threaten it with priority.

**Mega Mawile**: Mega Mawile hard counters Greninja because of its typing and bulk. Play Rough KOs from full, and Sucker Punch easy kills Greninja after any bit of chip damage.

**Rage Powder and Follow Me**: Greninja cannot do anything against these Pokemon. They can generally sponge a hit leaving Greninja exposed to powerful attacks.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
#2
The only thing I could think of would be either have a mixed set that uses Rock Slide or slash it on the first set and also slash a Naive(Cant remember if Naive or Hasty) nature. Otherwise it all seems covered.
 

Yiggaman

Wi-Fi Blacklisted
#3
I know I will regret this....... But you gotta include shadow sneak on a set for the simple fact of gimping slower Mach punch users by switching to ghost type and reacting with a extrasensory. Trust me, my greninja has been abusing conkeldur and hitmontop for a while now lol
 
#4
I know I will regret this....... But you gotta include shadow sneak on a set for the simple fact of gimping slower Mach punch users by switching to ghost type and reacting with a extrasensory. Trust me, my greninja has been abusing conkeldur and hitmontop for a while now lol
I find that interesting considering Hitmontop isn't even VGC 14 legal.
 
#6
Ohh I just started practicing doubles on rating match on the 3ds and I see a lot of hitmontop, so I have been pawning them, sorry don't play on showdown or simulators that much so I wouldn't know
Ah ok, yea I think the ruleset is different. You do bring a pretty good point though and I find it interesting. Not sure if anyone had success with it but seems viable. Definitely deserves at least OO.
 

Yiggaman

Wi-Fi Blacklisted
#7
Ah ok, yea I think the ruleset is different. You do bring a pretty good point though and I find it interesting. Not sure if anyone had success with it but seems viable. Definitely deserves at least OO.
Yea man I really don't wanna put it out there because it can be used against me lol but it's almost standard on any hasty/naive greninja set it's too good
 

Energy

Please tell me why do we worry
is a Tiering Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
#8
The only thing I could think of would be either have a mixed set that uses Rock Slide or slash it on the first set and also slash a Naive(Cant remember if Naive or Hasty) nature. Otherwise it all seems covered.
Don't really see the point of Rock Slide when it gets Hydro Pump, and then it would lose another coverage move. I mean flinch chance is cool but it seems to nichey.
 

LightningLuxray

Mood: Nicki with an egg cracked on her head
is a Contributor Alumnus
#9
Don't really see the point of Rock Slide when it gets Hydro Pump, and then it would lose another coverage move. I mean flinch chance is cool but it seems to nichey.
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 174-205 (58.3 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0- Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 333-395 (111.7 - 132.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Mizuhime or someone ran it on a Doubles team awhile back with good success; seems OO worthy to me :o
 

lucariojr

MS State Pokemon!!!
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
#13
replace extrasensory with rock slide; i can't think of anything other than amoonguss and the rare hariyama/conkeldurr that extrasensory actually hits

i suppose this is as good as greninja can get so QC 1/2
 

Martin

Like the hole in a doughnut
is a Forum Moderatoris a Live Chat Contributor
Moderator
#17
replace extrasensory with rock slide; i can't think of anything other than amoonguss and the rare hariyama/conkeldurr that extrasensory actually hits
you forgot Mega Venusaur (Thick Fat makes it a bulky mf), but yea it is pretty useless.
 

Martin

Like the hole in a doughnut
is a Forum Moderatoris a Live Chat Contributor
Moderator
#18
Make sure to mention Extrasensory in OO as, while it kinda sucks due to the lack of Fighting-types, it is still usable-ish.
 
#21
Hey Laurel, this is an amcheck (my first one). :)

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Just a note, use "KO" over "kill" because Pokemon aren't killed; they're fainted or KOed.
Overview
########

Greninja has an incredible base speed of 122 base 122 Speed, which makes it capable to outrun speed nearly every viable Pokemon in the VGC metagame. Protean is one of the best abilities in the game, giving as it gives the user, Greninja, STAB on all of it's attacks. It has a diverse move pool movepool which allows it able to hit most threats with something super effectively. However, Greninja is very frail, (remove comma) and dies in one hit to mostly everything many things can OHKO it (passive voice -> active voice and concision), which means it loses easily to priority. While Greninja is definitely a fun Pokemon to use, but it really needs to have an important niche to consider using it in a tournament.

Standard
########
name: Standard
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Rock Slide / Dark Pulse
move 4: Protect
ability: Protean
item: Life Orb / Focus Sash
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========

Hydro Pump is necessary over Scald because Greninja needs the power to guarantee certain kills OHKOs. (certain KOs such as what? If you're going to say it needs extra power to do something, explain what that something is, otherwise that information is useless) Ice Beam hits normal Venusaur and Amoonguss, and it is Greninja's strongest option for Ferrothorn. Rock Slide kills OHKOes both Mega Charizard Y and Talonflame, and while Dark Pulse hits Aegislash and Reuniclus. The choice between the two really has to do with personal preference. Protect is necessary so Greninja's partner can kill KO a threat off. It is not worth the move slot for replacing Protect with an additional coverage move because Greninja would become too exposed.

Set Details
========

The EVs are very self explanatory. A Timid nature allows Greninja to outspeeds almost every viable VGC Pokemon without a Choice Scarf. Life Orb is nice for power, bout Focus Sash is usable for longevity. However, because of Tyranitar, Focus Sash is almost always outclassed by Life Orb because of Tyranitar. (just flows nicer)

Usage Tips
========

Greninja has trouble against experienced opponents. One needs to make sure Greninja does not get targeted by enemy attacks or it which will most likely die KO it. Greninja has great utility as a lead because it can scout for Choice Scarf users, though it generally needs to Protect first turn fearing chip damage which puts it into certain moves' KO ranges. (Again, what kinds of moves?) Greninja can Aalso works not as a lead be used regularly if an opponent's Choice Scarf Pokemon users are have been eliminated.

Team Options
========

Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Mawile, or Choice Band Talonflame are all great partners because they can protect Greninja from getting killed KOed by slower Pokemon,. Furthermore, paired with Greninja they put a lot of as well as providing offensive pressure on an opponent. Mega Kangaskhan is especially good because it can Fake Out opposing Choice Scarf Pokemon users that would otherwise outspeed Greninja. Greninja works can also be used in hail teams by replacing Ice Beam with Blizzard,. Blizzard which has perfect accuracy in hail, and Greninja can take out KO pPokemon such as Aegislash that resist Blizzard, such as Aegislash, with Dark Pulse. (Capitalization of the "P" in "Pokemon" and sentence clarity.)

Other Options
########

Mat Block only works the first turn Greninja is on the field, and it prevents one's team from all non-status moves besides status that turn. However, unlike Protect it does not have priority. Taunt is an option to stop moves such as Spore, Will-O-Wisp, and Trick Room, which can really help out Mega Kangaskhan. Hidden Power [Fire] (You don't need the square brackets.) hits Ferrothorn(I feel like you should mention that it hits harder than Ice Beam, since you've mentioned that as Greninja's strongest option for Ferrothorn earlier.), Hidden Power [Grass] hits Azumarill and Rotom-W, and Extrasensory hits Conkeldurr. Choice Specs is an option to hit like a nuke, but then Greninja cannot take as much advantage of its fantastic ability, Protean.

Checks & Counters
########

**Rotom-W**: Rotom-W takes neutral damage to all of Greninja's standard moves in VGC. It can then retaliate with a STAB thunderbolt, or perhaps burn Greninja's teammate.

**Talonflame**: Choice Band Talonflame always OHKOs with Brave Bird. However, Focus Sash Greninja with Focus Sash easily KOes Talonflame in return with Hydro Pump.

**Fighting types**: Fighting types like Conkeldurr, Scrafty, and even Lucario check Greninja well. They can usually take a hit and retaliate back with a KO or threaten it with priority.

**Mega Mawile**: Mega Mawile hard counters Greninja because of its typing and bulk. Its Play Rough OHKOes from full Greninja, and Sucker Punch easily kills KOes Greninja after any bit of chip damage.

**Rage Powder and Follow Me Users**: Greninja cannot do anything against these Pokemon. They can generally sponge a hit, leaving Greninja exposed to powerful attacks.


]Overview
########

Greninja has an incredible base 122 Speed, which makes it capable to outspeed nearly every viable Pokemon in the VGC metagame. Protean is one of the best abilities in the game, as it gives the user, Greninja, STAB on all of it's attacks. It has a diverse movepool which allows it to hit most threats super effectively. However, Greninja is very frail and many things can OHKO it, which means it loses easily to priority. While Greninja is definitely a fun Pokemon to use, it really needs to have an important niche to consider using it in a tournament.

Standard
########
name: Standard
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Rock Slide / Dark Pulse
move 4: Protect
ability: Protean
item: Life Orb / Focus Sash
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========

Hydro Pump is necessary over Scald because Greninja needs the power to guarantee certain OHKOs. Ice Beam hits Venusaur and Amoonguss, and it is Greninja's strongest option for Ferrothorn. Rock Slide OHKOes both Mega Charizard Y and Talonflame, while Dark Pulse hits Aegislash and Reuniclus. The choice between the two really has to do with personal preference. Protect is necessary so Greninja's partner can KO a threat. It is not worth replacing Protect with an additional coverage move because Greninja would become too exposed.

Set Details
========

The EVs are very self explanatory. A Timid nature allows Greninja to outspeed almost every viable VGC Pokemon without a Choice Scarf. Life Orb is nice for power, but Focus Sash is usable for longevity. However, Focus Sash is almost always outclassed by Life Orb because of Tyranitar. (just flows nicer)

Usage Tips
========

Greninja has trouble against experienced opponents. One needs to make sure Greninja does not get targeted by enemy attacks which will most likely KO it. Greninja has great utility as a lead because it can scout for Choice Scarf users, though it generally needs to Protect first turn fearing chip damage which puts it into certain moves' KO range. Greninja can also be used regularly if an opponent's Choice Scarf have been eliminated.

Team Options
========

Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Mawile, or Choice Band Talonflame are all great partners because they can protect Greninja from getting KOed by slower Pokemon, as well as providing offensive pressure. Mega Kangaskhan is especially good because it can Fake Out opposing Choice Scarf users that would otherwise outspeed Greninja. Greninja can also be used in hail teams by replacing Ice Beam with Blizzard, which has perfect accuracy in hail, and Greninja can KO Pokemon that resist Blizzard, such as Aegislash, with Dark Pulse.

Other Options
########

Mat Block only works the first turn Greninja is on the field, and it prevents one's team from all non-status moves that turn. However, unlike Protect it does not have priority. Taunt is an option to stop moves such as Spore, Will-O-Wisp, and Trick Room, which can really help out Mega Kangaskhan. Hidden Power Fire hits Ferrothorn, Hidden Power Grass hits Azumarill and Rotom-W, and Extrasensory hits Conkeldurr. Choice Specs is an option to hit like a nuke, but Greninja cannot take as much advantage of its fantastic ability, Protean.

Checks & Counters
########

**Rotom-W**: Rotom-W takes neutral damage to all of Greninja's standard moves in VGC. It can then retaliate with a STAB thunderbolt, or burn Greninja's teammate.

**Talonflame**: Choice Band Talonflame always OHKOs with Brave Bird. However, Focus Sash Greninja easily KOes Talonflame in return with Hydro Pump.

**Fighting types**: Fighting types like Conkeldurr, Scrafty, and even Lucario check Greninja well. They can usually take a hit and retaliate back with a KO or threaten it with priority.

**Mega Mawile**: Mega Mawile hard counters Greninja because of its typing and bulk. Its Play Rough OHKOes Greninja, and Sucker Punch easily KOes Greninja after any bit of chip damage.

**Rage Powder and Follow Me Users**: Greninja cannot do anything against these Pokemon. They can generally sponge a hit, leaving Greninja exposed to powerful attacks.
 
Last edited:

Energy

Please tell me why do we worry
is a Tiering Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
#22
Hey Laurel, this is an amcheck (my first one). :)

add
remove
comments


Just a note, use "KO" over "kill" because Pokemon aren't killed; they're fainted or KOed.
Overview
########

Greninja has an incredible base speed of 122 base 122 Speed, which makes it capable to outrun speed nearly every viable Pokemon in the VGC metagame. Protean is one of the best abilities in the game, giving as it gives the user, Greninja, STAB on all of it's attacks. It has a diverse move pool movepool which allows it able to hit most threats with something super effectively. However, Greninja is very frail, (remove comma) and dies in one hit to mostly everything many things can OHKO it (passive voice -> active voice and concision), which means it loses easily to priority. While Greninja is definitely a fun Pokemon to use, but it really needs to have an important niche to consider using it in a tournament.

Standard
########
name: Standard
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Rock Slide / Dark Pulse
move 4: Protect
ability: Protean
item: Life Orb / Focus Sash
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========

Hydro Pump is necessary over Scald because Greninja needs the power to guarantee certain kills OHKOs. (certain KOs such as what? If you're going to say it needs extra power to do something, explain what that something is, otherwise that information is useless) Ice Beam hits normal Venusaur and Amoonguss, and it is Greninja's strongest option for Ferrothorn. Rock Slide kills OHKOes both Mega Charizard Y and Talonflame, and while Dark Pulse hits Aegislash and Reuniclus. The choice between the two really has to do with personal preference. Protect is necessary so Greninja's partner can kill KO a threat off. It is not worth the move slot for replacing Protect with an additional coverage move because Greninja would become too exposed.

Set Details
========

The EVs are very self explanatory. A Timid nature allows Greninja to outspeeds almost every viable VGC Pokemon without a Choice Scarf. Life Orb is nice for power, bout Focus Sash is usable for longevity. However, because of Tyranitar, Focus Sash is almost always outclassed by Life Orb because of Tyranitar. (just flows nicer)

Usage Tips
========

Greninja has trouble against experienced opponents. One needs to make sure Greninja does not get targeted by enemy attacks or it which will most likely die KO it. Greninja has great utility as a lead because it can scout for Choice Scarf users, though it generally needs to Protect first turn fearing chip damage which puts it into certain moves' KO ranges. (Again, what kinds of moves?) Greninja can Aalso works not as a lead be used regularly if an opponent's Choice Scarf Pokemon users are have been eliminated.

Team Options
========

Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Mawile, or Choice Band Talonflame are all great partners because they can protect Greninja from getting killed KOed by slower Pokemon,. Furthermore, paired with Greninja they put a lot of as well as providing offensive pressure on an opponent. Mega Kangaskhan is especially good because it can Fake Out opposing Choice Scarf Pokemon users that would otherwise outspeed Greninja. Greninja works can also be used in hail teams by replacing Ice Beam with Blizzard,. Blizzard which has perfect accuracy in hail, and Greninja can take out KO pPokemon such as Aegislash that resist Blizzard, such as Aegislash, with Dark Pulse. (Capitalization of the "P" in "Pokemon" and sentence clarity.)

Other Options
########

Mat Block only works the first turn Greninja is on the field, and it prevents one's team from all non-status moves besides status that turn. However, unlike Protect it does not have priority. Taunt is an option to stop moves such as Spore, Will-O-Wisp, and Trick Room, which can really help out Mega Kangaskhan. Hidden Power [Fire] (You don't need the square brackets.) hits Ferrothorn(I feel like you should mention that it hits harder than Ice Beam, since you've mentioned that as Greninja's strongest option for Ferrothorn earlier.), Hidden Power [Grass] hits Azumarill and Rotom-W, and Extrasensory hits Conkeldurr. Choice Specs is an option to hit like a nuke, but then Greninja cannot take as much advantage of its fantastic ability, Protean.

Checks & Counters
########

**Rotom-W**: Rotom-W takes neutral damage to all of Greninja's standard moves in VGC. It can then retaliate with a STAB thunderbolt, or perhaps burn Greninja's teammate.

**Talonflame**: Choice Band Talonflame always OHKOs with Brave Bird. However, Focus Sash Greninja with Focus Sash easily KOes Talonflame in return with Hydro Pump.

**Fighting types**: Fighting types like Conkeldurr, Scrafty, and even Lucario check Greninja well. They can usually take a hit and retaliate back with a KO or threaten it with priority.

**Mega Mawile**: Mega Mawile hard counters Greninja because of its typing and bulk. Its Play Rough OHKOes from full Greninja, and Sucker Punch easily kills KOes Greninja after any bit of chip damage.

**Rage Powder and Follow Me Users**: Greninja cannot do anything against these Pokemon. They can generally sponge a hit, leaving Greninja exposed to powerful attacks.
I implemented some of those but I don't have much time. Do you mind making a paste with all the changes you don't need to show the deletes. I'll just copy paste it in. I'd love u 4ever
 

Winry

Super High School-Level Napper
is a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
#24
Amcheck

I know you were looking for official GP checks, so I'll ask someone to look this over ^^
Overview
########

Greninja has an incredible base 122 Speed, which makes it capable to of outspeeding nearly every viable Pokemon in the VGC metagame. Protean is one of the best abilities in the game, as it gives the user, Greninja, (RC) STAB on all of it's its attacks. It Greninja has a diverse movepool which allows it to hit most threats for super effectively effective damage. However, Greninja is very frail and many things can OHKO it, which means it loses easily to priority. While Greninja is definitely a fun Pokemon to use, it really needs to have an important niche to consider using it in a tournament.

Standard
########
name: Standard
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Rock Slide / Dark Pulse
move 4: Protect
ability: Protean
item: Life Orb / Focus Sash
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========

Hydro Pump is necessary over Scald because Greninja needs the power to guarantee certain OHKOes. Ice Beam hits Venusaur and Amoonguss, and it is Greninja's strongest option for Ferrothorn. Rock Slide OHKOes both Mega Charizard Y and Talonflame, while Dark Pulse hits Aegislash and Reuniclus. The choice between the two really has to do with personal preference. Protect is necessary so Greninja's partner can KO a threat without harming Greninja. It is not worth replacing Protect with an additional coverage move because Greninja would become too exposed.

Set Details
========

The EVs are very self explanatory self-explanatory (add hyphen). A Timid nature allows Greninja to outspeed almost every viable VGC Pokemon without a Choice Scarf. Life Orb is nice for power, but Focus Sash is usable for longevity. However, Focus Sash is almost always outclassed by Life Orb because of Tyranitar. (just flows nicer) (might be helpful to say why Tyranitar causes LO to be outclassed, since it seems a bit random)

Usage Tips
========

Greninja has trouble against experienced opponents. One needs to make sure that Greninja does is not get targeted by enemy attacks which that will most likely KO it. Greninja has great utility as a lead because it can scout for Choice Scarf users, though it generally needs to Protect first turn, (AC) as it fears fearing chip damage which puts it into certain moves' KO range. Greninja can also be used regularly if an opponent's opposing Choice Scarf Pokemon have been eliminated.

Team Options
========

Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Mawile, or Choice Band Talonflame are all great partners because they can protect Greninja from getting KOed by slower Pokemon, as well as providing provide offensive pressure. Mega Kangaskhan is an especially good partner because it can Fake Out opposing Choice Scarf users that would otherwise outspeed Greninja. Greninja can also be used in hail teams by replacing Ice Beam with Blizzard, which has more power and perfect accuracy in hHail, and Greninja can KO Pokemon that resist Blizzard, such as Aegislash, with Dark Pulse.

Other Options
########

Mat Block only works the first turn Greninja is on the field, and it prevents one's team from all non-status moves that turn. However, unlike Protect, (AC) it does not have priority. Taunt is an option to stop moves such as Spore, Will-O-Wisp, and Trick Room, which can really help out Pokemon such as Mega Kangaskhan. Hidden Power Fire hits Ferrothorn, Hidden Power Grass hits Azumarill and Rotom-W, and Extrasensory hits Conkeldurr. Choice Specs is an option to hit like a nuke, but Greninja cannot take as much advantage of its fantastic ability, Protean.

Checks & Counters
########

**Rotom-W**: Rotom-W takes neutral damage to from all of Greninja's standard moves in VGC. It can then retaliate with a STAB tThunderbolt, or burn any of Greninja's teammates that switch in. (for clarification, since Rotom-W can't burn any of Greninja's teammates when they're not on the field.)

**Talonflame**: Choice Band Talonflame always OHKOes Greninja with Brave Bird. However, Focus Sash Greninja easily KOes Talonflame in return with Hydro Pump.

**Fighting types**: Fighting types like Conkeldurr, Scrafty, and even Lucario check Greninja well. They can usually take a hit and retaliate back with a KO or threaten it with priority.

**Mega Mawile**: Mega Mawile hard counters Greninja because of its typing and bulk. Its Play Rough OHKOes Greninja, and Sucker Punch easily KOes Greninja after any bit of chip damage.

**Rage Powder and Follow Me Users**: Greninja cannot do anything against these Pokemon who use Rage Powder and Follow Me. They can generally sponge a hit, leaving Greninja exposed to powerful attacks.
 
Last edited:
#25
Amcheck

I know you were looking for official GP checks, so I'll ask someone to look this over ^^
Overview
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Greninja has an incredible base 122 Speed, which makes it capable to of outspeeding nearly every viable Pokemon in the VGC metagame. Protean is one of the best abilities in the game, as it gives the user, Greninja, (RC) STAB on all of it's its attacks. It Greninja has a diverse movepool which allows it to hit most threats for super effectively effective damage. However, Greninja is very frail and many things can OHKO it, which means it loses easily to priority. While Greninja is definitely a fun Pokemon to use, it really needs to have an important niche to consider using it in a tournament.

Standard
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name: Standard
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Rock Slide / Dark Pulse
move 4: Protect
ability: Protean
item: Life Orb / Focus Sash
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
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Hydro Pump is necessary over Scald because Greninja needs the power to guarantee certain OHKOes. Ice Beam hits Venusaur and Amoonguss, and it is Greninja's strongest option for Ferrothorn. Rock Slide OHKOes both Mega Charizard Y and Talonflame, while Dark Pulse hits Aegislash and Reuniclus. The choice between the two really has to do with personal preference. Protect is necessary so Greninja's partner can KO a threat without harming Greninja. It is not worth replacing Protect with an additional coverage move because Greninja would become too exposed.

Set Details
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The EVs are very self explanatory self-explanatory (add hyphen). A Timid nature allows Greninja to outspeed almost every viable VGC Pokemon without a Choice Scarf. Life Orb is nice for power, but Focus Sash is usable for longevity. However, Focus Sash is almost always outclassed by Life Orb because of Tyranitar. (just flows nicer) (might be helpful to say why Tyranitar causes LO to be outclassed, since it seems a bit random)

Usage Tips
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Greninja has trouble against experienced opponents. One needs to make sure that Greninja does is not get targeted by enemy attacks which that will most likely KO it. Greninja has great utility as a lead because it can scout for Choice Scarf users, though it generally needs to Protect first turn, (AC) as it fears fearing chip damage which puts it into certain moves' KO range. Greninja can also be used regularly if an opponent's opposing Choice Scarf Pokemon have been eliminated.

Team Options
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Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Mawile, or Choice Band Talonflame are all great partners because they can protect Greninja from getting KOed by slower Pokemon, as well as providing provide offensive pressure. Mega Kangaskhan is an especially good partner because it can Fake Out opposing Choice Scarf users that would otherwise outspeed Greninja. Greninja can also be used in hail teams by replacing Ice Beam with Blizzard, which has more power and perfect accuracy in hHail, and Greninja can KO Pokemon that resist Blizzard, such as Aegislash, with Dark Pulse.

Other Options
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Mat Block only works the first turn Greninja is on the field, and it prevents one's team from all non-status moves that turn. However, unlike Protect, (AC) it does not have priority. Taunt is an option to stop moves such as Spore, Will-O-Wisp, and Trick Room, which can really help out Pokemon such as Mega Kangaskhan. Hidden Power Fire hits Ferrothorn, Hidden Power Grass hits Azumarill and Rotom-W, and Extrasensory hits Conkeldurr. Choice Specs is an option to hit like a nuke, but Greninja cannot take as much advantage of its fantastic ability, Protean.

Checks & Counters
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**Rotom-W**: Rotom-W takes neutral damage to from all of Greninja's standard moves in VGC. It can then retaliate with a STAB tThunderbolt, or burn any of Greninja's teammates that switch in. (for clarification, since Rotom-W can't burn any of Greninja's teammates when they're not on the field.)

**Talonflame**: Choice Band Talonflame always OHKOes Greninja with Brave Bird. However, Focus Sash Greninja easily KOes Talonflame in return with Hydro Pump.

**Fighting types**: Fighting types like Conkeldurr, Scrafty, and even Lucario check Greninja well. They can usually take a hit and retaliate back with a KO or threaten it with priority.

**Mega Mawile**: Mega Mawile hard counters Greninja because of its typing and bulk. Its Play Rough OHKOes Greninja, and Sucker Punch easily KOes Greninja after any bit of chip damage.

**Rage Powder and Follow Me Users**: Greninja cannot do anything against these Pokemon who use Rage Powder and Follow Me. They can generally sponge a hit, leaving Greninja exposed to powerful attacks.
We went over this on IRC. This check is solid; please implement it. :)

GP 1/2