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Ground Arceus (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Alan, Aug 19, 2010.

  1. Alan

    Alan

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    http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/arceus

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    Change Log (open)
    8/19 - added and made changes to sd set
    8/20 - updated analysis' to paragraph form :)


    [Overview]

    <p>The divine titan stands tall above all else on the highest cliff smiting His very creation. When holding the Earth Plate, He's ready to use the earth He created against those who stand in His way. He can choose to either approach His enemies in a Calm (Mind) demeanour and crush them with brilliant dual coverage in the form of Ground-type Judgment and Ice Beam. Else He can unleash His mighty rage in the form of His universally-feared (Swords) Dance, wreaking foes with the still excellent dual coverage of Earthquake and Stone Edge. His mighty bulk, immunity to Electric-type attacks, and resistance to Stealth Rock separate Him from His other Arceus brethen. Whilst very few can resist His awesome two-move coverage, He's prone to some common attacks from the special spectrum, mainly Surf and Ice Beam. But those who try to use such attacks against, as well as any other foe, should never underestimate the power of the titan whose very footsteps make the world shake.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Judgment
    move 4: Ice Beam
    item: Earth Plate
    nature: Timid
    evs: 100 HP / 100 Def / 100 SpA / 100 SpD / 100 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Ground Arceus is one of the only Ground-type Pokemon who is able to boost its Special Attack - the other one being Claydol. Arceus's naturally high Speed allows it to outspeed all positively-natured base 100 Speed Pokemon with a Timid nature and 100 Speed EVs. Ground Arceus also resists Stealth Rock, a valuable asset in any metagame. Thanks to its naturally high bulk, Arceus can find many opportunities to get a Calm Mind or two and proceed to sweep. Ground Arceus is also one of the most reliable Dialga counters thanks to its STAB Ground-type attacks and great bulk, while Dialga rarely carries an attack super effective against it.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Ground- and Ice-type attacks are all Arceus needs to be effective in Ubers, hitting everything but the odd Bronzong for at least neutral damage. However, it does have a few other options. For instance, one may utilize Substitute to run a SubCM set which can scout for counters and make setting up easier, as well as blocking status such as Toxic and Will-O-Wisp. Thunder can also be used in place of Ice Beam to hit things such as Ho-Oh and Lugia harder, as well as score a super effective hit on Kyogre, but Arceus will lose its only way of harming the Lati twins Latios and Latias.</p>

    <p>Arceus's biggest problems are Pokemon that outspeed it. Therefore, a revenge killer like Wobbuffet is important to take out these threats. Choice Scarf Kyogre is a huge threat to Arceus because Water Spout will do a significant amount of damage to Arceus, even after a Calm Mind. For this reason, entry hazard support such as Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock are very important as they will wear down common switch-ins and help to weaken Kyogre. By extension of this, spinblockers, such as Giratina and Giratina-O, make excellent teammates. Latios and Latias, especially the latter, are also very dangerous to Arceus. Calm Mind Latias can take an Ice Beam or two from Arceus and do major damage with Grass Knot. Bronzong utterly walls this set, but needs Toxic or Explosion to do anything to back to Arceus. Ho-Oh can also wall this set if Stealth Rock isn't in play.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Recover / Substitute / ExtremeSpeed
    item: Earth Plate
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 100 HP / 100 Atk / 100 Def / 100 SpD / 100 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Much like every other Arceus type, Ground Arceus can run an efficient Swords Dance set. Normally a Ground-type Swords Dance Pokemon would seem to be outclassed by Garchomp with its higher Speed, due to Arceus's EV restrictions, or Groudon with its higher HP and Defense. However, Ground Arceus has a few things over these Pokemon. It lacks the 4x weakness to Ice-type moves and weakness to Dragon-type moves that Garchomp has, and it has higher Special Defense and Speed than Groudon. In addition to this, it has Recover, which prolongs its sweep. Earthquake + Stone Edge offers extraordinary coverage, resisted by only 6 Pokemon in the entire game, only a couple of which are commonly seen in Ubers. A Jolly nature is used for the same reason as Timid is in the above set, to outpace positively-natured base 100 Speed Pokemon.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Substitute is an option over Recover in the last slot if you are worried about status or Intimidate. It also allows Arceus to scout for its counters more easily. ExtremeSpeed can also be used in the last slot to pick off faster weakened opponents, such as Darkrai or Scarfers, and outspeed Custap users who are looking to take you out with Destiny Bond or Explosion. Thanks to Arceus's natural bulk and Recover, it can take on Dialga really well, being immune to Thunder and having the ability to Recover off Draco Meteors and Outrages.</p>

    <p>As with every other Swords Dance user in the game, Stealth Rock and other entry hazards are important for Arceus for turning 3HKOs into 2HKOs and 2HKOs into OHKOs. Forretress makes a great partner with its bulk and resistances to Grass- and Ice-type attacks. Choice Scarf Kyogre is one of Arceus's biggest counters. Because of this, Quagsire is a great teammate for Arceus because it can take on any variant of Kyogre one-on-one. Palkia and even Kyogre are also great teammates because of their ability to revenge kill and take common Ice- and Water-type attacks; however, beware when using Kyogre of the Grass-type weakness it shares with Arceus. Bronzong, once again, can take on this set as well, but will need Toxic or Explosion to threaten Arceus.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Thanks to Arceus's huge movepool, options for it are almost unlimited. The most important thing is to make sure it's not outclassed by Garchomp or Groudon. Arceus can stall fairly efficiently with Substitute and Recover alongside Will-O-Wisp or Toxic, but this is generally better left to other Pokemon. Roar is also a decent option when used in conjuction with multiple entry hazards to rack up damage and prevent set up. Arceus also has access to Light Screen and Reflect, but usually Lugia and Deoxys-S can do a better job at that. Rest + Sleep Talk is also a viable option as it can be used to function as a status absorber.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Ground Arceus is plagued by weaknesses to common types. Luckily, Ground Arceus has something no other Ground-type has with its 120/120/120 defenses, which limits its counters to a degree. The best, and probably most reliable counter to Ground Arceus, is Choice Scarf Kyogre; with its high-powered rain-boosted STAB Water Spout it still has a chance to OHKO Arceus after two Calm Minds with Stealth Rock in play. It also has the advantage in Speed, forcing one to predict an incoming Kyogre to weaken the damage Water Spout does. Calm Mind Latias is also a reliable option for countering Ground Arceus; with her natural bulk and high Special Attack, a boosted Grass Knot will spell doom for Ground Arceus. Water, Grass, and Ice Arceus are also decent counters, but Grass Arceus should be wary of switching into Ice Beam. Other than the aformentioned Pokemon, counters are few and far between for this earthy behemoth.</p>
  2. gec

    gec i've been crawling through the falling
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    Just wanted to quickly say, for the SD Set you should probably expand on why that could be superior to Groudon (lot more Speed, better Special Defence etc).
  3. Great Sage

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    Recover should still be considered on the Swords Dance set (actually, Recover should be considered on almost every Arceus set) because it takes advantage of Arceus's natural bulk. It also makes setting up on Pokemon like Giratina-O a bit easier. Also, your wish at the end of your post is pointless; an Arceus with Iron Ball would be Normal, and it's highly unlikely that the target of your Trick would hold an Earth Plate.
  4. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

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    Agreeing with Great Sage - Arceus is fantastically bulky, and one of the things that it has over Groudon is that it has Recover.
  5. Great Sage

    Great Sage

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    Defensive Ground Arceus is outclassed by other types of defensive Arceus, like Fighting, Ghost, and Steel. The Electric immunity is nice, but almost everything that carries Thunder has a way of horribly hurting Ground as well (think Kyogre, Palkia, Latios). Besides Rock (notice that two of the types that outclass this also resist Rock) and Electric, Ground has no other useful resistances, either.
  6. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    Not sure if it's actually outclassed by those, Steel and Ghost are very different types (each of which has a couple of important weaknesses which Ground lacks, Fire and Ground for Steel and Dark/Ghost for Ghost, and a nice set of resists to go with them. Different, not directly outclassing.), and while Fighting may be for the most part a better defensive type Ground is able to go physical effectively and uses a different STAB (mono attacking fighting is arguably worse than mono attacking ground, though they both run into trouble against many of the same opponents) which differentiates it somewhat. May or may not be an effective set, but that's a different issue.
  7. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed "Smogon friends" is an oxymoron.
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    Quick reply: I feel on the Swords Dance set that Arceus should have Dragon Claw or Outrage to compensate for Stone Edge's....edgy accuracy. Also, Dragon + Ground has some sick coverage, and not too many Steel types would switch in due to Earthquake.
  8. Jibaku

    Jibaku Balance is a fool's master
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    The Lv.100 Arceus they gave away does not have nature/IV restrictions due to it being obtained via Wondercard.

    Note that Bronzong needs Toxic to actually do something back or it will just get set up on
  9. Zacchaeus

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    Since your set says Recover and doesn't even have a slash for Substitute, I'm assuming you meant "but generally Recover is better"

    This set uses Stone Edge, not Rock Slide. So what does that make, QuakeEdge? EarthStone?

    After looking at this analysis, it doesn't really stick out. This analysis really doesn't show why you should use Ground Arceus as opposed to a more widely accepted Arceus type like Normal, Ghost, Fighting, or Dragon
  10. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
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    You don't need a teammates and counters tab for the set...that goes under AC.

    Also team options should probably be a little expanded and overview needs to be more epic. If you want I can help with that.

    Prose could use some work but hey we can all help with that. :)
  11. Great Sage

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    QC APPROVED 1/3
  12. bojangles

    bojangles IF YOU TRULY BELIEVE,
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  13. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
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  14. mtr

    mtr

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    You should mention something like Mix Dialga or Mix Palkia as a partner for the CM set in order to deal with Blissey, as both of them make great Blissey lures.
  15. Colonel M

    Colonel M JESUS BIRD HAS RETURNED
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    I Ctrl + F'd "Dialga", and the one thing I noticed is that there is no mention as that it's probably the closest thing to counter Dialga thanks to the immunity to Thunder, having a STAB that hits it for super effective damage, and only fearing repeated Draco Meteors if it doesn't Recover itself or too many Bulk Ups. It's definitely an advantage over Groudon and Garchomp, the former having recovery issues and the latter being weak to Dragon obviously. The only real fear is Magnet Rise, which is rare to see on Dialga in the first place.
  16. firecape

    firecape This is the end...
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    [OVERVIEW]
    <p>Thanks to the Earth Plate and Multitype Arceus gains the same typing as the black kid from Captain Planet, Ground-type. With its huge offensive stats, and similarly impressive defensive stats, coupled with its blazing speed, Arceus is a dominant force few will wish to reckon with. While Groudon and Garchomp may be the more popular Ground-types, Arceus has the edge over them in recovery and bulk.</p>((This isn't flavorful enough in my opinion, so I didn't bother to proofread it))

    [SET]
    name: Calm Mind
    move1: Calm Mind
    move2: Recover
    move3: Judgment
    move4: Ice Beam
    item: Earth Plate
    nature: Timid
    evs: 100 HP / 100 Def / 100 SpA / 100 SpD / 100 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Ground Arceus is one of the only few Ground-type Pokemon who is able to boost its Special Attack- the only other one being Claydol. This is very neat because a Special Ground move is good against the many steels in Ubers who have high Defense, but only moderate Special Defense, generally speaking. ((this isn't really a good sentence, most of the Steel-types in Ubers pump their Special Defense.)) Arceus's naturally high base Speed allows it to outspeed all is incredible, even with only 100 Speed and a Timid nature, it will still outpace positive natured base 100 Speed Pokemon with a Timid nature and 100 Speed EVs. This group includes, Salamence, Palkia, Kyogre and the generation pixies. Ground Arceus is also resists resistant Stealth Rock, a valuable asset in any metagame.Ubers. Thanks to its natural high bulk, Arceus can find many opportunities options to get a Calm Mind or two up and proceed to then sweep. Ground Arceus is also one of the most reliable Dialga counters thanks to its STAB Ground-type attacks and great bulk, Dialga also rarely carries an attack super effective against it.This set is also great against Dialga because of its bulk, Recover and STAB super effective Judgement.</p>

    [Additional Comments]
    <p>Ground- and Ice-type attack are really all Arceus needs to be effective in Ubers, hitting everything but the odd Bronzong for at least neutral damage. However, it does have a few other options that can be used. For instance, one may utilize Substitute to run a SubCM set which can scout for counters and make setting up easier, as well as blocking status moves such as Toxic and Will-O-Wisp. If you wish to hit harder a Modest nature can be used but you will fail to outspeed positive nature base 100s notably Kyogre, Palkia and Manaphy. (Arceus should always have a +Speed nature) Thunder can also be used in place of Ice Beam to hit things such as stuff like ((Use "such as" when giving examples, use "like" when making a comparison)) Ho-Oh and Lugia harder, as well as to score a super effective hit on Kyogre, but Arceus will lose its only way of harming you ((you aren't doing this, Arceus is))will fail to threaten the Lati twins dragons.</p>

    <p>Arceus's biggest problems are stuff that outspeed it. Therefore, a revenge killer like Wobbuffet is important to take out these threats. Choice Scarf Kyogre is a huge threat to Arceus because a high powered Water Spout to will do significant amounts of damage to Arceus, even after a Calm Mind. For this reason, entry hazard support such as Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock are very important as they will wear down common switch-ins and help to weaken Kyogre. By extension of this, a spinblocker, such as Giratina and Giratina-O, make excellent teammates. is also a good teammate, so Giratina or Giratina-o make excellent teammates. Latios and Latias also are very dangerous to Arceus, especially the latter. Calm Mind Latias can take an Ice Beam or two from Arceus and Calm Mind up and do major damage with a +2 Grass Knot. Bronzong utterly walls this set will resist this set in its entirety, but needs Toxic or Explosion to do anything to it. and Ho-Oh can also wall takes on this set if without Stealth Rock isn't in play.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Swords Dance Ground
    move1: Swords Dance
    move2: Earthquake
    move3: Stone Edge
    move4: Recover / Substitute / ExtremeSpeed
    item: Earth Plate
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 100 HP / 100 Atk / 100 Def / 100 SpD / 100 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Much like every other Arceus set, Ground Arceus can run an efficient Swords Dance set. Earthquake + Stone Edge offers extraordinary coverage, resisted by only 6 Pokemon (Pokemon is capitalized)in the entire game, only a couple of which are will be (you shift to the future tense here, try to avoid that) commonly seen in Ubers (the name of a metagame is capitalized). A Jolly nature is used run for the same reason as Timid is in the above set, to outpace positive nature base 100 Speed Pokemon.</p>

    [Additional Comments]
    <p>[[Normally a Ground-type Swords Dance Pokemon would seem to be outclassed by Garchomp with its higher Speed, due to Arceus EV restrictions, or Groudon with its higher HP and Defense. However, Arceus has a few things over these Pokemon. guys. It lacks the 4x weakness to Ice-type moves and weakness to Dragon-type moves that Garchomp has, and it has higher Special Defense and Speed than Groudon as well as outpacing it. In addition to this, it also has Recover, which prolongs its sweep.]] ((I would move everything in the [[ ]] to "set comments")) Substitute is an option over Recover in the last slot if you are worried about status or Intimidate. It also allows Arceus to scout for its counters easier. ExtremeSpeed can also be used in the last slot as an option to pick off faster, weakened opponents, such as Darkrai or weakened Scarfers, and outspeeding Custap users who are looking to take you out with a priority ((Custap doesn't make these moves priority, it makes them go first within their Speed bracket, for instance, if I were to use Custap Trick Room, I would still go last)) Destiny Bond or Explosion. An Adamant nature may be used but you will fail to outpace positive nature base 100s, but you will gain a higher chances of 2HKO's against Lugia, assuming no Stealth Rock, and Giratina. Thanks to Arceus's natural bulk and the option to run Recover, it can take on Dialga really well, being immune to its deadly Thunder, and having the ability being able to Recover off Draco Meteors and Outrages.</p>

    <p>As with every other Swords Dancer in the game, Stealth Rock and other entry hazards are important for Arceus for turning 3HKOs into 2HKOs and 2HKOs into OHKOs. Forretress makes a great partner with its bulk and typing and its resistances to Grass- and Ice-type attacks. Choice Scarf Kyogre is one of Arceus's biggest counters to the Calm Mind set and even moreso to this set. Because of this, Quagsire is a great teammate for Arceus because it can take on any variant of Scarf Kyogre one on one. Palkia and even Kyogre are also great teammates because of their roles of ability to revenge kill and take on common Ice- and Water-type attacks, respectively, however, beware when using Kyogre of the common Grass-type weakness it shares with Arceus. Bronzong, once again, can take on this set as well, but will need Toxic or Explosion to threaten be effective against Arceus.</p>

    [TEAM OPTIONS]
    <p>Rain is a bad idea to have with Ground-type Arceus as it boosts your opponents already super effective hits, so Groudon or Tyranitar are good partners, but be weary of compounding Arceus's similar weaknesses. Entry hazard support is very important for both Arceus sets, as they will allow it to sweep with greater ease. Unfortunately, Ground typing has too many weaknesses for one pokemon to cover them all. Together, Forretress and Kyogre really cover them pretty well. Kyogre ((you ust said using rain with Kyogre is bad...I would revise one or the other so this doesn't contradict itself))works really well because of its 100% accurate Thunder, which will take out opposing Water-types who pose a threat to threaten Arceus. Thunder Wave in general, specifically on Kyogre Paralysis support will go a long ways in helping against Scarf Kyogre and Scarf Palkia. Blissey is also a valuable teammate because it can spread status and come in on many of the special moves that will be aimed at Arceus.</p>

    [OTHER OPTIONS]
    <p>Thanks to Arceus's huge movepool,-that might be an understatement-options for it are almost unlimited. The most important thing is to make sure it's not outclassed by Garchomp or Groudon. Arceus can stall fairly efficiently with Substitute and Recover alongside Will-O-Wisp or Toxic, but this is better left to other Pokemon. plus a status move. Roar is also a decent option when used in conjuction with multiple entry hazards to rack up damage and prevent set up. Arceus also has access to Light Screen and Reflect, but generally speaking Lugia and Deoxys-S can do a better job at that. Rest + Sleep Talk is also a viable option as it can be used to function as a status absorber.</p>

    [COUNTERS]
    <p>Ground Arceus is plagued by weaknesses to common types. has the common plague of every other Ground-type in the game: weakness to very common moves. Luckily, Ground Arceus has something no other Ground-type has with its 120/120/120 defenses, which limits its counters, to a degree. The best, and probably most reliable counter to Ground Arceus, is Choice Scarf Kyogre, with its high powered, rain-boosted, STAB Water Spout it still has a chance to OHKO Arceus after two Calm Minds with Stealth Rock in play, it also has the advantage in Speed, forcing one the Arceus user to predict an incoming Kyogre to weaken the damage Water Spout does. damage. Calm Mind Latias is also a reliable option for countering Ground Arceus, with her natural bulk and high Special Attack, a boosted Grass Knot will spell doom for Ground Arceus.a certain God of Pokemon. Water-, Grass-, and Ice-type Arceus are also all decent counters, but Grass Arceus should be wary of switching into Ice Beam. Physical Arceuses sets are also very threatening to Ground Arceus depending on when they are switched in, as they will most likely shrug off any attack and be able to do a lot of damage back. Other than the aformentioned Pokemon, counters are few and far between for this earthy bohemoth.</p>
    [/QUOTE]
  17. Fizz

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    GP Check 1/2

    Removals red
    Changes bold

    Nice writeup.

    [​IMG]
  18. Purimpopoie

    Purimpopoie

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    "The earthen form of the mighty Arceus has many advantages over Groudon, the titan who shaped the Earth itself, and the dreaded landshark, Garchomp. The creator of the world is faster than Groudon and lacks the weaknesses to Ice and Dragon that Garchomp's dual-typing brings, making its Swords Dance set different, and at the same time effective. Additionally, Ground Arceus is also one of the very few Ground-Types capable of Special Attacks that can boost its Special Attack, as well as being the bane of the Temporal Pokémon, Dialga. The very land trembles as Ground Arceus treads upon it; take care, lest it tread upon you, as well."

    Since he said he needs help with the overview.
  19. alex 67

    alex 67

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    I think Gravity may deserve an AC mention over Stone Edge on the SD set. While it does take a turn to set up instead of having to rely on 80% accurate and 8 pp Stone Edge it makes sure that everything is taking Spikes and Tspikes and also makes sure that EQ is hitting almost everything in UB bar Shaymin-S who has a hard time shrugging off SD boosted EQ and gets murdered by Extremespeed anyway.
  20. Oglemi

    Oglemi THE DREAM IS REAL
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    I got bored, so I wrote an Overview as well. Feel free to use either or neither of mine or Purimpopie's.

    <p>With an Earth-plate attached to the hide of the creator, the equine deity has the full control of the very essence of mountains and gorges. While the soil-laden master may have more common weaknesses than it'd like, it holds one of the most reliable elements in its grasp. Tremble in fear as the Ground forme of Arceus rips the ground from beneath your very feet.</p>
  21. Aeron Ee1

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    Mixed what I thought to be the best parts of both, as well as revising it a little. Hope this helps. =]

    EDIT: How are these Arceus analyses coming along anyway? They all suddenly just stopped...
  22. calze6

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    You should probably mention its usability as a bulky thunder wave absorber without setting up the sun as that is one of ground arceus's greatest niches.
  23. Komodo

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    Going to make this a placeholder for GP check 2, will add the Overview too. Come on Alan, edit in Fizz's changes! :P
  24. Darkmalice

    Darkmalice Like a facepalm, but better
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    Here's my shot:

    The divine titan stands tall above all else on the highest cliff smiting his very creation. When holding the Earth Plate, he's ready to use the earth he created against those who stand in his way. He can choose to either approach his enemies in a Calm (Mind) demeanour and crush them with brilliant dual coverage in the form of Ground-type Judgment and Ice Beam. Else he can unleash his mighty rage in the form of his universally-feared (Swords) Dance, wreaking foes with the still excellent dual coverage of Earthquake and Stone Edge. His mighty bulk, immunity to Electric-type attacks, and resistance to Stealth Rock separate him from his other Arceus brethen. Whilst very few can resist his awesome two-move coverage, he's prone to some common attacks from the special spectrum, mainly Surf and Ice Beam. But those who try to use such attacks against, as well as any other foe, should never underestimate the power of the titan whose very footsteps make the world shake.
  25. JSND

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    The gravity SD set seems quite solid in my experience. Arceus bulk is enough to use gravity both as support and set up move of some kind with SD and EQ.

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